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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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true or false
    #7976611 - 02/04/08 06:03 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

a person who is filled with happiness and joy is necessarily causing someone else in the world to be completely empty of happiness and joy

this is a fundamental question as it pits mind over matter against a more sociological perspective. i had a hard time with this the last time i was on acid as it felt to me like some people are meant to not win in society, and in fact are destined to regress and self-destruct. if a person cannot fit into society, they are not in control of their destiny. it felt like to me that i was seeing how human sacrifice is still being performed.

is it not true that the way society is set up is meant to satisfy some but not others

and i wonder where meditation and things like that fit into this. like little band-aids to hide monstrous scars, the people who are doing this have found a sort of docking bay for their suffering, a little rest before continuing on the path of being a sacrifice for humanity's collective ignorance


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: true or false [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7976629 - 02/04/08 06:15 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

it seems some don't even need to use their will, everything just comes to them from the system, while others muster all the will power they have and get nothing in return


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: true or false [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7976640 - 02/04/08 06:25 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

damn this was a terrible thread, i just read some psychology and it made me very angry

i know there must be a purpose for all the suffering a good portion of us must endure especially at the shroomery, i think there is a lot of truth to the image of the great chain of being


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: true or false [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7976652 - 02/04/08 06:36 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

what motivates us to grow and learn if not the soul. i wasn't programmed to grow and learn, it just kept happening.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: true or false [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7976671 - 02/04/08 06:54 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

a person who is filled with happiness and joy is necessarily causing someone else in the world to be completely empty of happiness and joy




I disagree.
It means that there is limited amount of love, a limited amount of happiness, a limited amount of suffering, and so on.
How can you seriously sustain that?
Feelings and unquantifiable, and their structure is not made out of matter.
Of course that one's happiness can influence other's state of being, but this is entirely different from what you said here.
We are rational beings, and as we exercise this quality that we have, we shed some light in our mind. We start to make sense out of what's happening to us and out of what we make happen. And we discover that we can become autonomous individuals.

Quote:

this is a fundamental question as it pits mind over matter against a more sociological perspective. i had a hard time with this the last time i was on acid as it felt to me like some people are meant to not win in society, and in fact are destined to regress and self-destruct. if a person cannot fit into society, they are not in control of their destiny. it felt like to me that i was seeing how human sacrifice is still being performed.




Destined?
I don't think so...
Win in society? It means that you see a prize out there and in this case maybe you should start asking yourself what makes you think this way and what does the prize consist of?
Each of us have the ability to be in control of ourselves.
I don't know what psychology book you've read, but it doesn't sound legitimate. :lol:
What do you mean by fitting in society? I would like to hear an example.
Considering the main social standards, I could say that I don't really socially "fit in". I don't feel like an outcast or loser. I love my life, I consider myself to be functional and I do with my life whatever pleases me.
Sure, it would me much better if I saw more awareness around me, people who are willing to think and communicate, but this doesn't mean that I am not happy seeing the opposite. :lol:

Quote:

is it not true that the way society is set up is meant to satisfy some but not others




Just like everything else.
It is only when we refuse to open our eyes to the complexity of life, that we think there is nothing out there that can satisfy us, or that we can't create something to satisfy us.

Quote:

and i wonder where meditation and things like that fit into this. like little band-aids to hide monstrous scars, the people who are doing this have found a sort of docking bay for their suffering, a little rest before continuing on the path of being a sacrifice for humanity's collective ignorance




What does this "collective ignorance" have to do with my own personal progress and happiness? Meditation is just one way of the many others that shows us that progress comes from the individual. And that it can, in some cases, influence other individuals.


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:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: true or false [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7976887 - 02/04/08 08:48 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

'a person who is filled with happiness and joy is necessarily causing someone else in the world to be completely empty of happiness and joy'

I once thought that this applies to whole countries.
Like war is the fuel for these... Humans??
Blow something up over there and something novel happens somewhere else.

Kind of silly.

But, I do believe human energy flows.
That one full of energy can initiate the flow of energy into someone else and vice versa.
I think prayer and meditation in this way makes you the vacuum and sets you up for the in-flow.


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: true or false [Re: backfromthedead]
    #7977068 - 02/04/08 09:55 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

It means that there is limited amount of love, a limited amount of happiness, a limited amount of suffering, and so on.




That is the premise I was working off of, yeah. It does seem kind of silly now that I think of it, but I guess I figured that if there is a limited amount of physical resources there could be a limited amount emotionally and that it is through cultural channels combined with genetic factors that decide who gets the most of what. Not very scientific, but in a state of anger I don't tend to think very clearly.

Quote:

What do you mean by fitting in society? I would like to hear an example.




It is a fact that people with less social inhibitions and who are more socialiable have larger networks of acquaintances and friends and are more likely to get the better job and better pay and so on. I guess this is what the prize is. Not my idea of a prize, but we all need money to live comfortably.

Quote:

Just like everything else.
It is only when we refuse to open our eyes to the complexity of life, that we think there is nothing out there that can satisfy us, or that we can't create something to satisfy us.




That's true. A lot of the things I like to do such as writing and drawing don't even involve other people.

Quote:

What does this "collective ignorance" have to do with my own personal progress and happiness? Meditation is just one way of the many others that shows us that progress comes from the individual. And that it can, in some cases, influence other individuals.




I agree.

It's funny how quickly I can change my mind and how I can see how short sighted my thinking process is when i'm angry. I can actually understand the mind sight of most of the people who post at OTD now.


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: true or false [Re: backfromthedead]
    #7977105 - 02/04/08 10:04 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

backfromthedead said:
'a person who is filled with happiness and joy is necessarily causing someone else in the world to be completely empty of happiness and joy'

I once thought that this applies to whole countries.
Like war is the fuel for these... Humans??
Blow something up over there and something novel happens somewhere else.






I've actually had that exact thought before. What's up with that? I thought acid was suppose to make you smarter.
Quote:



But, I do believe human energy flows.
That one full of energy can initiate the flow of energy into someone else and vice versa.
I think prayer and meditation in this way makes you the vacuum and sets you up for the in-flow.




I agree, meditation definitely opens me up to the energy flow


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: true or false [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7977133 - 02/04/08 10:16 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

It is a fact that people with less social inhibitions and who are more socialiable have larger networks of acquaintances and friends and are more likely to get the better job and better pay and so on. I guess this is what the prize is. Not my idea of a prize, but we all need money to live comfortably.




We also might drop our inhibitions on the way. :wink:
I've never seen a single person to live comfortably (no matter how much money they have) with inhibitions.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Invisiblederanger
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Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
Re: true or false [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7977523 - 02/04/08 12:27 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:i had a hard time with this the last time i was on acid as it felt to me like some people are meant to not win in society, and in fact are destined to regress and self-destruct. if a person cannot fit into society, they are not in control of their destiny.




somebody who fits too well into society may not be in control of their destiny either.

society is not needed to awaken to the dream, it is up to the individual and no external source is needed.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: true or false [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7978186 - 02/04/08 03:51 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

a person who is filled with happiness and joy is necessarily causing someone else in the world to be completely empty of happiness and joy





False. Joy is not a zero-sum game. Happiness and joy are available to everyone, and only our negative reactions to our circumstances limit our personal "supply."


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Invisibleappleorange
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Registered: 12/30/07
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Re: true or false [Re: Veritas]
    #7978265 - 02/04/08 04:07 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

This quote has always struck a chord with me and really picks me up on those days where I'm feeling shitty. I think it may be somewhat relevant to your question too:

"When Heaven wants to perfect a great man, it tries him in every possible way until he comes out triumphantly from all his painful experiences."


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Offlinemycould
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Re: true or false [Re: appleorange]
    #7978873 - 02/04/08 05:49 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

i wouldnt say that acid necessarily makes you smarter it just gives you new perspectives on things... and i was wondering about this kind of thing the other day i forget which law it is that says that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction... does this apply to emotions?


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Whether you believe you can or believe you cant, either way you're probably right.


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