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shevanel
Gone til November



Registered: 01/27/08
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formerly the wbs thread now turned into mgmc info *DELETED*
#7976604 - 02/04/08 05:56 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Post deleted by shevanelReason for deletion: none
Edited by shevanel (02/04/08 11:10 AM)
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novicemycology
dabbeler



Registered: 07/12/06
Posts: 346
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Re: Need help from the community.. (WBS casing question) [Re: shevanel]
#7976638 - 02/04/08 06:24 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well I don't feel there is a need to sterilize your casing, for you will being loosing some of the micronutes which are beneficial. Pasteurizing works just fine. Miracle Grow Moisture Control can be used on its own. 50/50+ is my choice, vacuum sealed then pasteurized. If you don't have a sealer as long as you have hydrated your casing choice, you could just as easily pasteurize with quart jars in a canning pot. Good Luck!
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shevanel
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Re: Need help from the community.. (WBS casing question) [Re: novicemycology]
#7976685 - 02/04/08 07:02 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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what do you mean by MGMC "can be used on it's own" ?
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Neobean
Adept Mycologist


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Re: Need help from the community.. (WBS casing question) [Re: shevanel]
#7976783 - 02/04/08 08:02 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
shevanel said: what do you mean by MGMC "can be used on it's own" ?
Means you can pasteurize it straight out of the bag and use it as a stand alone casing mixture. Also, you wont need nearly as much casing mix as you need substrate. 1 jar or 2 (2 maximum) should be enough for casing your 6 jars of substrate...
-------------------- If y0u want s0meting gr0wn right, y0u g0tta gr0w it y0urself!!!
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shevanel
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Re: Need help from the community.. (WBS casing question) [Re: Neobean]
#7976801 - 02/04/08 08:14 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I just nocc'd up the 6 jars in a GB, I then placed a disinfected card board box over the jars IN the GB then put the GB lid on. Is this fine for placing in the incubation room?
Thanks for clarifying on the MGMC, so idealy I can take a mixture of peat/verm, add water until suitable, then PC and use about 2 pints to 6 (3/4 full) pints of WBS?
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Neobean
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Re: Need help from the community.. (WBS casing question) [Re: shevanel]
#7976823 - 02/04/08 08:22 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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For the casing mix, you need to find out what is best for you. The depth of your casing layer is highly dependant on the depth of your substrate in the casing. Most of the time (and I think in this case its applicable) you will want between 1/4 inch and 1/2 inch of casing layer.
What will you be casing in?
-------------------- If y0u want s0meting gr0wn right, y0u g0tta gr0w it y0urself!!!
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shevanel
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Re: Need help from the community.. (WBS casing question) [Re: Neobean]
#7976929 - 02/04/08 09:03 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'll probably use disposable foil baking trays, then place on top of the perlite layered, drilled, sterilite box.
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shevanel
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Re: Need help from the community.. (WBS casing question) [Re: shevanel]
#7976940 - 02/04/08 09:04 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I was looking into doc's 100% coir casing, but I really cant give the casing the 8-10 a day misting as required. But I really need to start figuring which path to take as far as an optimal casing so I can prepare.
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Neobean
Adept Mycologist


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Re: Need help from the community.. (WBS casing question) [Re: shevanel]
#7976955 - 02/04/08 09:11 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well, I would s tart out with the miracle grow, as with this you don't need to verify ph and stuff. Once you've had success with it, then you cna move to more complicated. But keep in mind that yield is mostly substrate related, as opposed to casing related.
-------------------- If y0u want s0meting gr0wn right, y0u g0tta gr0w it y0urself!!!
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shevanel
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Re: Need help from the community.. (WBS casing question) [Re: Neobean]
#7976960 - 02/04/08 09:14 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Alright, so I should look for a MGMC recipe for PC'n a few pints?
Then 1:4 of casing to wbs, with about a 1" bottom layer of moist verm?
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Neobean
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Registered: 10/07/01
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Re: Need help from the community.. (WBS casing question) [Re: shevanel]
#7976981 - 02/04/08 09:20 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
shevanel said: Alright, so I should look for a MGMC recipe for PC'n a few pints?
There is no recipe...lol Just straight out of the bag.
Quote:
shevanel said: Then 1:4 of casing to wbs...
Thats not the correct ratio. The ratio isnt by volume, its by, depth. For 4 inches of wbs, you'll want a 1/4-1/2 of casing layer.
Quote:
shevanel said: with about a 1" bottom layer of moist verm?
Useless, don't do it.
-------------------- If y0u want s0meting gr0wn right, y0u g0tta gr0w it y0urself!!!
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shevanel
Gone til November



Registered: 01/27/08
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Re: Need help from the community.. (WBS casing question) [Re: Neobean]
#7976990 - 02/04/08 09:23 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I understand you now.
But as far as recipe I seen a few threads about adding a certain amount of h20 because the PC will remove some(water) from the mgmc
Also, when I said 1:4 I meant 1"-4". i shouldnt read when high. but thanks alot youre making sense to me.
Edited by shevanel (02/04/08 09:25 AM)
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Neobean
Adept Mycologist


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Re: Need help from the community.. (WBS casing question) [Re: shevanel]
#7977098 - 02/04/08 10:02 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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No need to add water to the mgmc before PC. You will be misting that layer after you apply it anyways.
-------------------- If y0u want s0meting gr0wn right, y0u g0tta gr0w it y0urself!!!
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simplemachine
Manfly


Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 1,981
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Re: Need help from the community.. (WBS casing question) [Re: Neobean]
#7977126 - 02/04/08 10:13 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think most people bring their MGMC up to field capacity before pasteurization, like other casing materials.
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shevanel
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Re: Need help from the community.. (WBS casing question) [Re: simplemachine]
#7977163 - 02/04/08 10:25 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I read the post by creamcorn about mgmc and it simply makes sense.
They should add it to the casing methods guides outside the forum.
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Neobean
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Re: Need help from the community.. (WBS casing question) [Re: simplemachine]
#7977186 - 02/04/08 10:31 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
simplemachine said: I think most people bring their MGMC up to field capacity before pasteurization, like other casing materials.
Yes I remember this step now...sorry about that.
-------------------- If y0u want s0meting gr0wn right, y0u g0tta gr0w it y0urself!!!
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simplemachine
Manfly


Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 1,981
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Re: Need help from the community.. (WBS casing question) [Re: shevanel]
#7977243 - 02/04/08 10:50 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
I read the post by creamcorn about mgmc and it simply makes sense.
I'm not sure which post you're refrencing here...
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shevanel
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Re: Need help from the community.. (WBS casing question) [Re: simplemachine]
#7977253 - 02/04/08 10:56 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Damn, I'm looking for it now, he posted a mini-tek within a thread of how he does it...
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shevanel
Gone til November



Registered: 01/27/08
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Re: Need help from the community.. (WBS casing question) [Re: shevanel]
#7977289 - 02/04/08 11:07 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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ok lots of questions here i guess i should chime in
Creamcorn said:
first off lets make sure we're on the same page:
miracle gro moisture control.. note the two different bag designs, but its the same product. its not simply potting soil, though potting soil in fact serves as a mediocre casing, roughly on par with a straight verm casing.
as for prep we got some options:
straight out of the bag - works, don't be sad if mean green drops by to check things out after the first flush.
pasteurization - the true textbook way to prepare a casing. reduces the mold spore counts, allows bacteria to survive. bacteria play an important role in keeping things in "statis" - that is, they actually turn it around in this stage and can help PREVENT mold contaminates to some extent on your casing. they're also believed to stimulate pin development... bad guys to have around in your spawn jars, but good friends in a casing layer. (i have an inkling the small amount of "forest bed compost" contained in the moisture control product actually might feed and promote these beneficial bacteria, just a theory, but you won't see any other casing layer promote SO many pins effortlessly - and i'm trying to understand why!) the whole bacteria issue is less of an issue with cubensis, but more of an issue with other species (some in fact will NOT fruit without the presence of proper bacteria)... because cubes aren't picky, is the very reason why there's so much argument here whether sterilization or pasteurization is best - the answer is pasteurization, but not always by a noticable amount in the case of cubes! anyway enough of that tangent
sterilizing - you can load the hydrated stuff up into jars and PC them like you would anything else...
microwaving - call it "psuedo-pasteurization" or "incomplete sterilization" or what have you, its somewhere in between a true pasteurization and a sterilization. this is what i commonly use, when i'm too lazy to set up a true pasteurization.
now, onto the question of adding verm to it. you can. you don't have to. i've found it doesn't change much, but a small amount of fine verm does make it more crumbly and easier to spread. i mainly use a small percentage (10-20%) verm in there because i have a crapload of verm to get rid of. i wouldn't go run out and get some just to add it.
as for pH buffering... remember this is a mostly peat based product, and as such follows the same rules as using peat based mix like 50/50. however, it doesn't seem to be quite so acidic as straight peat... samples straight from the bag have tested around the low 6's for me... whereas peat registers a high 3 or low 4 pH. as a rule of thumb, use half the amount of buffer as you would for the peat in a 50/50 recipe. there's a couple 50/50 recipes here so i'll leave that as an excersize in using the search engine. i personally use hydrated lime in mine, and over time have become pretty damn good at just eyeballing it, so its kinda like grandma's cookin'.... i don't have a recipe for you. i like to put some water in the bowl, add the lime, mix it around, then mix in the casing so that its well distributed - then adjust more water or more casing mix as neccessary (on larger batches or when i have time, i do allow it to stand for a while, and test the pH to be sure i'm in the right range.) of course same rule applies, 7.5-8 is optimal. gypsum is another good additive, in the 5-10% range, as it helps hold pH stable, again helps with that "crumblyness" (like mentioned with verm), and supplies elements like calicum & sulfur to your crop.
your other option of course, is not to buffer it at all. again, this works. i've done it and gone 3 contam free flushes. this casing mix, a healthy mycelial network beneath, and plenty of FAE in your FC, and you'll likely do the same. pH buffering really is like taking out a contaminate insurance policy on your project, and definitely helps keep you in the game for those later flushes - if you're using the materials to make for a really deep substrate, you deserve to get quite a few flushes - so its a good idea. if you're just learning, experimenting, playing around, etc, don't get so hung up on the pH buffering stuff.
hmm other tips... well sometimes you come across chunks of wood or sticks. these should be picked out. in fact, running it through a coarse mesh strainer of sorts would probably make the mix even better.
and finally some inspiration:
i *think* that should cover most of it, though i'm sure there will be more questions.
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shevanel
Gone til November



Registered: 01/27/08
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Re: Need help from the community.. (WBS casing question) [Re: shevanel]
#7977295 - 02/04/08 11:08 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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it should be put up on the page as a tek, alot of questions lately about this
original
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6322746#Post6322746
Edited by shevanel (02/04/08 11:12 AM)
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