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Offlineart
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Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 331
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
Ron Paul's America?
    #7976011 - 02/03/08 11:47 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I still do not understand most of Ron Paul's economic policies, most of them seem like complete bullshit, so maybe all of the Paul fans can help clear some things up.

How would America work if Ron Paul ran it? This is a hypothetical situation, so don't worry about the practicality of changing things. I am NOT referring to any of his civil policies. I completely agree with him on civil issues, it is just his economics that I am confused about.


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Ron Paul's America? [Re: art]
    #7976147 - 02/04/08 12:16 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

art said:
I still do not understand most of Ron Paul's economic policies, most of them seem like complete bullshit,




If it looks and smells and tastes like bullshit...


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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OfflineCoaster
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Re: Ron Paul's America? [Re: gluke bastid]
    #7976195 - 02/04/08 12:34 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

well u c u bring all the troops home, that saves the US a trillion a year
so then we can get rid of the IRS
also we get rid of the war on drugs
theres another 500 billion
so we can lower sales tax
shit like that yo


--------------------


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OfflineCubie
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Re: Ron Paul's America? [Re: Coaster]
    #7976205 - 02/04/08 12:36 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Fuckin right.



Ron paul for a better world.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Ron Paul's America? [Re: Coaster]
    #7977085 - 02/04/08 09:59 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Coaster said:
well u c u bring all the troops home, that saves the US a trillion a year
so then we can get rid of the IRS
also we get rid of the war on drugs
theres another 500 billion
so we can lower sales tax
shit like that yo




The next Ben Bernanke right there, Ladies and Gentlemen...


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Offlineart
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 331
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
Re: Ron Paul's America? [Re: Coaster]
    #7977249 - 02/04/08 10:55 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Coaster said:
well u c u bring all the troops home, that saves the US a trillion a year
so then we can get rid of the IRS
also we get rid of the war on drugs
there's another 500 billion
so we can lower sales tax
shit like that yo





OK...so if he gets rid of the IRS then does that mean he will get rid of taxes? With all of his tax cuts that were stated in the other thread how does he expect to save social security? what about Medicare?

One of my main concerns is how he wants to get rid of the federal reserve. Can someone please explain how our country is going to run without it!? How would the aftermath of the sub prime market have worked without the Fed?


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Ron Paul's America? [Re: art]
    #7977268 - 02/04/08 11:00 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Why would he save Social Security/Medicare?

Those are completely anathema to everything he stands for...


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Offlineart
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Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 331
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
Re: Ron Paul's America? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7977356 - 02/04/08 11:24 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

why?

and what about the fed? or the IRS? the sub prime crises?

and, "It is is unconstitutional" does not count.


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InvisibleMistaUNGA
green crack GREEN CRACK!!
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Re: Ron Paul's America? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7977362 - 02/04/08 11:25 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Alan Greenspan > Ben Bernanke


--------------------
:gc:
Madtowntripper said:Or just give her a cloroform soaked rag and tell her it's ether!


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Ron Paul's America? [Re: art]
    #7977364 - 02/04/08 11:25 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Don't ask me, I think the guy is a loon.

I'm sure one of his supporters would be happy to give you a 2-page diatribe on the subject if you asked...


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: Ron Paul's America? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7977386 - 02/04/08 11:31 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Don't ask me, I think the guy is a loon.

I'm sure one of his supporters would be happy to give you a 2-page diatribe on the subject if you asked...




And I'm sure they will soon. :rolleyes:


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InvisibleMistaUNGA
green crack GREEN CRACK!!
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Re: Ron Paul's America? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7977399 - 02/04/08 11:35 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Regarding the elimination of government programs and operations:

Programs (ie Social Security, Medicare etc) would STAY IN PLACE. Actually, because he is against things like taxing Social Security income, the payment would be higher. Now, the difference is this: by allowing privatization of retirement accounts, by letting the younger generation opt out of SS, we reduce the governmental hand on our futures. People ought to be able to (and smart enough!) to invest ON THEIR OWN. I personally can't fathom why people insist of getting a handout! But anyways, continuing on...

The various ABC organizations and other departments within the government (ie Dept of Education, IRS, DEA, and others) would be removed through attrition. This means that no jobs would be eliminated, rather no new hires. So let the people already working continue to do so, and when they're done, the Dept will be formally gone. Most functional capacities would be removed. For example, Ron Paul would cease the War on Drugs. The DEA would still exist, however, they would not be mandated to, for example, raid Medical Marijuana dispensaries in Los Angeles! (Sorry, I'm a patient in LA, and am OUTRAGED that they keep doing this to sick people!)

Any other questions, keep bringin' em! :rastamon:
See, I didn't get too long winded.


--------------------
:gc:
Madtowntripper said:Or just give her a cloroform soaked rag and tell her it's ether!


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Ron Paul's America? [Re: Le_Canard]
    #7977432 - 02/04/08 11:49 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ToiletDuk said:
Quote:

Madtowntripper said:





And I'm sure they will soon. :rolleyes:




Doubtful. I think most paul supporters here see Art as a troll and won't bother. There are plenty of web-sites Art can search to understand Paul's economic Policy. Maybe Art is at least familiar with two of Paul's newly appointed economic advisers, MSM favorites Don Luskin and Peter Shiff, who support Pauls plan, to help him get a feel for where Paul stands.

No doubt, someone at www.ronpaulforums.com will be happy to take the time and energy to very thoroughly answer his questions if they are sincere.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlineart
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Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 331
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
Re: Ron Paul's America? [Re: MistaUNGA]
    #7977442 - 02/04/08 11:51 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

What about the IRS, or the Fed? does he want to completely get rid of taxes?


Thank you


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InvisibleMinstrel
Man of Science
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 1,974
Loc: Hogtown
Re: Ron Paul's America? [Re: art]
    #7977948 - 02/04/08 02:51 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

art said:
What about the IRS, or the Fed? does he want to completely get rid of taxes?


Thank you




How old are you? I'm sure that you've spent your life believing that 50% of everything you own needs to be given to the government for things to operate properly.

Social security will be phased out, because it's dead already. Old people who have spent their lives putting money into it won't get it back, because it's been gutted by inflation, and to fund other needless spending. That's why Paul's solution is to allow young people to opt out of it, and keep their money as their earn it.

Where in your constitution does it say that the federal government is obligated to provide a retirement plan for everyone?


--------------------


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Offlineart
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Re: Ron Paul's America? [Re: Minstrel]
    #7978403 - 02/04/08 04:32 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I am 19.

Social Security is in jeopardy but it is certainly not dead...well not yet anyways.

So the constitution needs to mention social security for it to be applicable?

So again how will our country work without the IRS, or Department of Education, the Fed, etc?

Quote:

Doubtful. I think most Paul supporters here see Art as a troll and won't bother. There are plenty of web-sites Art can search to understand Paul's economic Policy. Maybe Art is at least familiar with two of Paul's newly appointed economic advisers, MSM favorites Don Luskin and Peter Shiff, who support Pauls plan, to help him get a feel for where Paul stands.

No doubt, someone at www.ronpaulforums.com will be happy to take the time and energy to very thoroughly answer his questions if they are sincere.




How am I a troll? I have read some things on Ron Paul, but I still do not understand it, I do not want to go to another message board, I have been coming here for other information and it is convenient to stay in one place, how the fuck does that make me a troll? I have seen tons of people here talk about Ron Paul but not any real discussion on the applicability of his ideas to our modern society. It seems that people here take a lot of time and energy to talk about Ron Paul, so what is wrong with this topic?:rolleyes:


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Ron Paul's America? [Re: art]
    #7978518 - 02/04/08 04:51 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

the country will go on operating the way it did before those institutions
were implemented.

if you reduce the size of the federal government you correspondingly
reduce the government's cost and, in turn, their need to take 30-40%
of your annual earnings.

if you can implement something ridiculously simple like a sales tax or
a flat tax, then you don't need the bureaucracy that is the IRS.

furthermore, if you eliminate the department of education control over
education it becomes rightfully decentralized and put back in the hands of
the existing state and local entities responsible for education policy.

seriously, what does the IRS and/or DoE do for you today!?

what good is the FBI, CIA and NSA if they couldn't stop 9/11 before
stripping americans of long standing rights or otherwise eroding personal
privacy and liberty?

the federal government is a useless, self-serving leviathan that appears
to me to do more harm than good.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: Ron Paul's America? [Re: art]
    #7978669 - 02/04/08 05:13 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

art said:
I am 19.

Social Security is in jeopardy but it is certainly not dead...well not yet anyways.

So the constitution needs to mention social security for it to be applicable?

So again how will our country work without the IRS, or Department of Education, the Fed, etc?

Quote:

Doubtful. I think most Paul supporters here see Art as a troll and won't bother. There are plenty of web-sites Art can search to understand Paul's economic Policy. Maybe Art is at least familiar with two of Paul's newly appointed economic advisers, MSM favorites Don Luskin and Peter Shiff, who support Pauls plan, to help him get a feel for where Paul stands.

No doubt, someone at www.ronpaulforums.com will be happy to take the time and energy to very thoroughly answer his questions if they are sincere.




How am I a troll? I have read some things on Ron Paul, but I still do not understand it, I do not want to go to another message board, I have been coming here for other information and it is convenient to stay in one place, how the fuck does that make me a troll? I have seen tons of people here talk about Ron Paul but not any real discussion on the applicability of his ideas to our modern society. It seems that people here take a lot of time and energy to talk about Ron Paul, so what is wrong with this topic?:rolleyes:




Your obvious trolling aside,  your country spent a few hundred without an income tax.  It's only about around the time that your military industrial complex came into being that the government went nuts.  They just slowly took more control over all aspects of your lives.  Now, the federal government is nothing but a means to implement the wishes of multi-national corporations, which, in most every respect, make up your life.


--------------------


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InvisibleSlashOZ
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Re: Ron Paul's America? [Re: Minstrel]
    #7978754 - 02/04/08 05:29 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

1. IRS was created in the earlier part of the last century. america had existed just fine without it for years. it was also implemented after failing to receive the required votes to make it constitutional.

2. the dept. of education is unconstitutional. education is one of those rights reserved to the states. the federal gov't messing with schools has led to awesome policies such as the No child left behind act which punishes poorer schools and rewards already rich ones. fair huh?

3. the fed was created so the federal gov't could spend more money. if you don't actually need to have wealth (ie gold) you can just print all the money you need. the explosion of the federal gov'ts size can be traced back to the time when we decided to switch out currency to funny money and to tax the people via the IRS.


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Ron Paul's America? [Re: afoaf]
    #7978825 - 02/04/08 05:41 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

afoaf writes:

Quote:

what good is the FBI, CIA and NSA if they couldn't stop 9/11 before
stripping americans of long standing rights or otherwise eroding personal
privacy and liberty?




In all fairness to the FBI, CIA and NSA (none of whom bowl me over with their competence) there is nothing they could have done absent a prolonged and blatantly unconstitutional lockdown of the entire country and an enormous ongoing violation of civil liberties. Let's face it -- the bad guys got lucky this once. That happens sometimes. They kept things close to the vest and won a single battle. Admittedly, it was one hell of a battle, but it was a single battle nonetheless. And by winning that battle they fucked themselves.

Because now, instead of just lobbing a few cruise missiles into some deserted buildings in a desert somewhere a la Billy Bob Clinton, or wringing our hands over the unfairness of it all a la Jimmuh Carter, the US has actually sent a few tens of thousands of Islamic "martyrs" to their virgins, with more to come.



Phred


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