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OfflineDroz
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Freedom of religion; The use of drugs for spiritual purposes.
    #7972997 - 02/03/08 01:12 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I believe that we should have the right to use any substance we want.

My drug use has been and always will be for spiritual purposes.

Is there anyway we can bypass the laws and write some sort of document that says we can use drugs for spiritual purposes, that would leave the feds to not involve themselves in our spiritual drug use?

What do you think?

Peace,
Droz


--------------------
Evolution of Time.


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
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Re: Freedom of religion; The use of drugs for spiritual purposes. [Re: Droz]
    #7973020 - 02/03/08 01:16 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

The only document that would do it would be a court ruling.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Freedom of religion; The use of drugs for spiritual purposes. [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #7973037 - 02/03/08 01:19 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)



--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Posts: 14,794
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Re: Freedom of religion; The use of drugs for spiritual purposes. [Re: Droz]
    #7973068 - 02/03/08 01:25 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

No, it shouldn't be about spirituality or anything like that.
I think that those who want to use drugs (any drug), should be free to do it, no matter the purpose, even if they just want to get "fucked up".
This issue should be about one's FREEDOM to do as they wish with their own bodies.
No law should interfere with that, and using "spirituality" as a motive is just a cliche and a form of elitism in my opinion. :shrug:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Freedom of religion; The use of drugs for spiritual purposes. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7973072 - 02/03/08 01:27 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
No, it shouldn't be about spirituality or anything like that.
I think that those who want to use drugs (any drug), should be free to do it, no matter the purpose, even if they just want to get "fucked up".
This issue should be about one's FREEDOM to do as they wish with their own bodies.
No law should interfere with that, and using "spirituality" as a motive is just a cliche and a form of elitism in my opinion. :shrug:




Couldn't have said it better myself.  If some religious group gets a right to use that other people do not, that is the opposite of "no state supported religion".  No body should get any special privileges based on their faith or lack of faith.


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OfflineDroz
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Re: Freedom of religion; The use of drugs for spiritual purposes. [Re: DieCommie]
    #7973256 - 02/03/08 02:06 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Well fuck, I just want to use drugs without being harrased by the government.


--------------------
Evolution of Time.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Freedom of religion; The use of drugs for spiritual purposes. [Re: Droz]
    #7973267 - 02/03/08 02:09 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

That's something else.
Why hide behind reasons?
People are unaware that we encourage enforcing interdictions because we create too many excuses for who we are.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlinefivepointer
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Posts: 1,428
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Re: Freedom of religion; The use of drugs for spiritual purposes. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7973580 - 02/03/08 03:00 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I'll put in my two cents.

I would ideally like to see a libertarian society. The law of equal liberty being the only law that would exist. Every person is free to obtain property by voluntary exchange without limit. The only activities limited are activities where a person forcefully deprives another person of life or property. So theft, fraud, murder would be a violation of the law of equal liberty and prohibited. Possession and use of drugs would not be a violation of the law of equal liberty and would be permitted. In a voluntary society conditions may be demanded for association, such as drug tests for employment. This is not a violation of equal liberty and would probably be widely used.

Equal liberty applied to the State itself would prohibit all taxation, even the State's claim on a monopoly of physical force in a geographical area would have no basis.

People are not made moral by laws against vice. Only the power of a renewed soul can give a new nature. Political laws will never accomplish this.


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InvisibleCracka_X
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Re: Freedom of religion; The use of drugs for spiritual purposes. [Re: fivepointer]
    #7974039 - 02/03/08 04:33 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fivepointer said:
I'll put in my two cents.

I would ideally like to see a libertarian society. The law of equal liberty being the only law that would exist. Every person is free to obtain property by voluntary exchange without limit. The only activities limited are activities where a person forcefully deprives another person of life or property. So theft, fraud, murder would be a violation of the law of equal liberty and prohibited. Possession and use of drugs would not be a violation of the law of equal liberty and would be permitted. In a voluntary society conditions may be demanded for association, such as drug tests for employment. This is not a violation of equal liberty and would probably be widely used.

Equal liberty applied to the State itself would prohibit all taxation, even the State's claim on a monopoly of physical force in a geographical area would have no basis.

People are not made moral by laws against vice. Only the power of a renewed soul can give a new nature. Political laws will never accomplish this.




That's ironic


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Freedom of religion; The use of drugs for spiritual purposes. [Re: Cracka_X]
    #7974277 - 02/03/08 05:37 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Like my daddy always says "you can't legislate morality." He may have ripped that offa someone else.


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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Freedom of religion; The use of drugs for spiritual purposes. [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7974562 - 02/03/08 06:25 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Murder is illegal because its immoral. Theft is illegal because its immoral. Speeding is illegal because it puts peoples lives at risk, which is immoral. Even pot is illegal because some people think its immoral.

I would argue that all laws are legislations of morality.


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Offlineevolprim
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Re: Freedom of religion; The use of drugs for spiritual purposes. [Re: Droz]
    #7974589 - 02/03/08 06:28 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

i believe that being high is fun as hell, and no one should tell me i cant have fun if its not hurting anyone else.


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
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Re: Freedom of religion; The use of drugs for spiritual purposes. [Re: evolprim]
    #7976958 - 02/04/08 09:12 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I think Brazil has an Ayahuasca Church.


--------------------


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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
Re: Freedom of religion; The use of drugs for spiritual purposes. [Re: backfromthedead]
    #7976964 - 02/04/08 09:15 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Two commandments for the molecular age:

1. Thou shalt not alter the consciousness of thy fellow men.

2. Thou shalt not prevent thy fellow man from altering his or her own consciousness.


--------------------


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
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Re: Freedom of religion; The use of drugs for spiritual purposes. [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #7977581 - 02/04/08 12:51 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I hope everyone knows what's 'good' for oneself. I can't assume it. So I propose a concept of 'a little clue to help' ?!
On the other side, maybe everything eachother does is what he  has to do to experience to get that 'clue' which can bring him 'forward' in his own view.
The 'clue to help' can bring a bit of free space for decision [edit:from inside and from outside, but it might be the same].
But this topic is quite sticky :oogle:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Edited by BlueCoyote (02/04/08 01:13 PM)


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Freedom of religion; The use of drugs for spiritual purposes. [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #7977592 - 02/04/08 12:56 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Education.
Even though I think that this shouldn't be an obligation, as everyone has the possibility to inform themselves.
So I guess that this help would simply mean abolishing the disinformation provided by the anti drug campaigns and similar psychotic activities. :grin:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlinepattern
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Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,185
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: Freedom of religion; The use of drugs for spiritual purposes. [Re: Droz]
    #7977601 - 02/04/08 12:59 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Droz said:
I believe that we should have the right to use any substance we want.

My drug use has been and always will be for spiritual purposes.

Is there anyway we can bypass the laws and write some sort of document that says we can use drugs for spiritual purposes, that would leave the feds to not involve themselves in our spiritual drug use?

What do you think?

Peace,
Droz




One of the first things you might want to consider is to stop calling them "drugs". You will never convince anyone, except like-minded folks, that "drugs" could be used for spiritual use. The materialistic association with the term is simply too ingrained to overcome.


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
Re: Freedom of religion; The use of drugs for spiritual purposes. [Re: pattern]
    #7977680 - 02/04/08 01:29 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

entheogens = psychoactive substances used in a religious or shamanic context.

clinical medicines = substances or procedures used in physical treatment or psychological therapy.

would be a good place to start for definitions.


--------------------


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OfflineOneWhoHasSeen
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Re: Freedom of religion; The use of drugs for spiritual purposes. [Re: fivepointer]
    #7978589 - 02/04/08 05:01 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fivepointer said:
Every person is free to obtain property by voluntary exchange without limit. The only activities limited are activities where a person forcefully deprives another person of life or property.




You have overlooked a huge weakness in this argument that is unfortunately a plague in the modern world.

What about scams?

What if I am deceived, convinced into giving something voluntarily that I would not normally give away. Money? Property? Life? Freedom?

Rule of the mob, charismatic dictators, these are just examples of the evils that can stem from words such as "voluntary"

Quote:

AlteredAgain said:Two commandments for the molecular age:

1. Thou shalt not alter the consciousness of thy fellow men.

2. Thou shalt not prevent thy fellow man from altering his or her own consciousness.




But we alter the consciousness of our fellow man all the time. When we get angry at them, we change them. When we love them, we change them.

What if that fellow man wants to alter his own consciousness in a way that is harmful to us? Do we not have a right to defend ourselves?


Mushroomtrip had it right I think, education. I personally think that we need to agree to separate drugs that are harmful to others and ourselves with entheogens that are beneficial to the human mind and soul.

Heavily addicting and harmful drugs like heroin, cocain, PCP, nicotine, and alcohol (for examples) need to still be illegal or restricted and our people taught about the dangers of entering into such drugs. I agree that hospitals should be no-arrest zones for people who want to shoot up, etc. with clean needles and medical help nearby. This helps reduce the addicts possibility to hurt themselves and others.

However, entheogens like pot, mushrooms, acid, ecstacy, and DMT need to be legalized. Again, respect and proper use of these drugs need to be taught to our people. Then and only then can we make the right decision on which way to go.

Of course, this is just my opinion.


--------------------
A Temporal Anomaly


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Invisibleappleorange
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Re: Freedom of religion; The use of drugs for spiritual purposes. [Re: OneWhoHasSeen]
    #7978615 - 02/04/08 05:05 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

If psychedelic drugs were to be made legal, some very serious conditions would need to be set in place.

Can you imagine something like lsd being over the counter? The world would fall apart.


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