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shevanel
Gone til November


Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 1,517
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
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Is this particular WBS acceptable?
#7971853 - 02/03/08 06:12 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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sandman420
Saint PP


Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 5,384
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7971870 - 02/03/08 06:44 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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i wouldn't use it because it has cracked corn in it. Kroger's has a pretty good deal with WBS in 20 lb bags for $4.99 with just millet, milo and some sunflower seed in it. They also have it in 40 lb bags for $10.99...go figure...I just buy the 20lb bags.
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shevanel
Gone til November


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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: sandman420]
#7971875 - 02/03/08 06:47 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Okay, thanks for the advice on the lowes stuff. I'm looking around as we speak for it. I'd love to find the pennington stuff since it has already been used and then I could just simply follow the tek.
So idealy, any WBS with millet, milo and with the exception of SF seeds may be used?
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KillerPicklez



Registered: 12/13/07
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7971912 - 02/03/08 07:13 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
shevanel said: Okay, thanks for the advice on the lowes stuff. I'm looking around as we speak for it. I'd love to find the pennington stuff since it has already been used and then I could just simply follow the tek.
So idealy, any WBS with millet, milo and with the exception of SF seeds may be used?
Yep but that stuff you showed is fine. the sunflower seeds will float to the top conveniently while you are soaking the WBS.
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playwithguns
Sporophore

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 223
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: KillerPicklez]
#7971923 - 02/03/08 07:17 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Its says it's enriched with "Bird Kote" I don't know if that makes it unusable however.
-------------------- My Garden
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KillerPicklez



Registered: 12/13/07
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: playwithguns]
#7971933 - 02/03/08 07:22 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
playwithguns said: Its says it's enriched with "Bird Kote" I don't know if that makes it unusable however.
Bird Kote has worked fine for me; Bird Kote is simply vegetable oil, calcium, and Vitamins A&D. In very small amounts. Im sure it would be somewhat removed during soaking and/or simmering.
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: KillerPicklez]
#7972024 - 02/03/08 08:21 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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when you prepare wbs, after hydrating it by simmering or soaking (whichever you prefer), you are supposed to rinse it VERY well, then let it drain VERY VERY well.... when you rinse it, the bird kote should come off...
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brainsOplenty
myconut



Registered: 06/27/06
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#7972035 - 02/03/08 08:25 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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check the farm supply stores or co-op's. you can usually pick up a 50 LB. bag for around 10 bucks
-------------------- FOR GOD'S SAKE MAN! TELL ME ABOUT THE FUCKING GOLF SHOES!!! LIVIN THE LIFE!!! "WE KNOCK NIGGAS OUT AND MAKE EM BOUNCE LIKE RICKY HATTON"- IMMORTAL TECHNIQUE
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shevanel
Gone til November


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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: brainsOplenty]
#7972097 - 02/03/08 08:57 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I picked up some WBS from peningto at the WMart. Taking the steps now to prepare for use. I clearly now see what needs to be removed, all the actual seed sits at the bottom. I'll follow all instructions as listed on here and site.
Can I use the innc'd wbs to innoc other jars as in the rye seed method?
And does 100% of the sunflower seeds need tobe reoved, or just as much as posible?
Edited by shevanel (02/03/08 09:01 AM)
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KillerPicklez



Registered: 12/13/07
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972115 - 02/03/08 09:09 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Just as much as possible.
It would be very hard to do a WBS to WBS transfer unless you have a glovebox, otherwise you greatly increase the chances for contamination.
Ive considered doing this several times, but find it just as easy and successful to spawn it or just case it. perhaps spawning to hpoo would be the best option depending on how much you planned on inoculating.
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shevanel
Gone til November


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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: KillerPicklez]
#7972125 - 02/03/08 09:17 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I plan to case with verm.
noc'd with pc: equador
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: KillerPicklez]
#7972126 - 02/03/08 09:17 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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walmart is such a horrible company... they are hella dirty... search youtube for "The high cost of low prices" and you will see...
anyway... you can get pure millet from alot of feed stores... if you live anywhere near farms, they should be slightly abundant.. I bought a 50 lbs bag there of straight millet for 10 bucks...
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#7972134 - 02/03/08 09:21 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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and you can always spawn to coir... it cheap, readily available, grows hella fast.. its wonderful...
you wouldnt need a glovebox for g2g with bird seed... just be clean and lysol the shit out of the air, with no fans on.. then add it in a 1:2 spawn to birdseed ratio, and you will be cool.. it will grow fast enough where you should have full colonization before any enemy spores can germinate... if you are clean, then you will be kosher... a glove box helps, but is not always needed... I have survived a long time without one...
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KillerPicklez



Registered: 12/13/07
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972143 - 02/03/08 09:27 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
shevanel said: I plan to case with verm.
noc'd with pc: equador
vermiculite casings are terrible. if you are using WBS as a substrate dont waste your effort by using vermiculite to case it.
try 50/50 if you want another cheap option.
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shevanel
Gone til November


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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#7972146 - 02/03/08 09:27 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I have a basic GB, similar to the one in RR's video.
I a pretty much follwing "doc's wbs method"
with the exception of the overnight soak.
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KillerPicklez



Registered: 12/13/07
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972149 - 02/03/08 09:29 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
shevanel said: I have a basic GB, similar to the one in RR's video.
I a pretty much follwing "doc's wbs method"
with the exception of the overnight soak.
you arent soaking the WBS? you are sure to fail then. Soaking is what hatches the endospores as well as allows the WBS to absorb enough water for colonization.
unless you plan on simmering.
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972152 - 02/03/08 09:30 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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all I can say is HA... I have used 100% verm casings forever.. and they work great.. you just have to know how to prep them.. I bet you have never used a straight verm casing... you are just quoting stuff you heard...
soak the vermiculite in water... strain well.. case.... lightly mist, if needed.. and wait for the magic... in the martha, I dont have to mist.. but in my tubs I did... its the most non nutritional casing you can use... which is what you want... HA... lol
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#7972156 - 02/03/08 09:32 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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and if you DO decide to go with 5050.. do the 5050+... 5050 is not bad AT ALL.. its great, but you cant underestimate other casings...
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KillerPicklez



Registered: 12/13/07
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#7972166 - 02/03/08 09:38 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
DJYoshaBYD said: and if you DO decide to go with 5050.. do the 5050+... 5050 is not bad AT ALL.. its great, but you cant underestimate other casings...
Well after trying both methods, I personally prefer 50/50 over 100% vermiculite. Guess the OP can try both methods and see which produce the best results for him.
I have yet to try 50/50 + , obtaining dehydrated lime and crushed oyster shells is much more of a pain in the ass for me, although Im sure ill give it a try once I get back into growing again.
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shevanel
Gone til November


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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972167 - 02/03/08 09:39 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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What would you reccomend casing the wbs with?
I'm guessing coco coir.
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KillerPicklez



Registered: 12/13/07
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972171 - 02/03/08 09:42 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
shevanel said: What would you reccomend casing the wbs with?
I'm guessing coco coir.
If you want something easy, You can case with Miracle Grow: Moisture Control. 3$ a bag and easily sterilized.
50/50 Peat/Verm is also very good and what Ive been using most recently. but both MGMC and 50/50 have both given me better results than straight vermiculite casings.
Edited by KillerPicklez (02/03/08 10:20 AM)
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shevanel
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972172 - 02/03/08 09:42 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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OkOk
I simmered the seed in a pot, rinsed, simmered, rinsed in cold water.
It's draining now.
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: KillerPicklez]
#7972177 - 02/03/08 09:43 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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very true
the 5050+ is just adding something to up the ph... thats all... like oyster shell or lime or something to that effect...
I like verm because there is no mixing or anything like that... after I hydrate and drain it, its at field capacity... then I just bake for 30 minutes at 350... never had a contam.. but I am also OCD about my cleanliness..
for sure.. try both, and see what works... verm works great for me... 5050 for others.... give it a shot... you need vermiculite for both anyway.. try one tray with it and one tray 5050 and do a side by side comparison... we llloooovveee those here, and you might help some noob out...
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shevanel
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972179 - 02/03/08 09:43 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I figure by the time I PC these jars I'll have fgured out or decided which way I plan to go as far as using the (hopefully un-contaminated)colonized jars.
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brainsOplenty
myconut



Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 750
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972181 - 02/03/08 09:44 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
shevanel said: I picked up some WBS from peningto at the WMart. Taking the steps now to prepare for use. I clearly now see what needs to be removed, all the actual seed sits at the bottom. I'll follow all instructions as listed on here and site.
Can I use the innc'd wbs to innoc other jars as in the rye seed method?
And does 100% of the sunflower seeds need tobe reoved, or just as much as posible?
i don't remove any of the SF seeds. and i never have any contams:)
-------------------- FOR GOD'S SAKE MAN! TELL ME ABOUT THE FUCKING GOLF SHOES!!! LIVIN THE LIFE!!! "WE KNOCK NIGGAS OUT AND MAKE EM BOUNCE LIKE RICKY HATTON"- IMMORTAL TECHNIQUE
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#7972183 - 02/03/08 09:45 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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let it drain for a while.. in like, 20 minutes, shake it up a bit so all the excess water gets out.. then let it sit a lil longer... the reason most fail at grain their first time is because too much water...
you do have a pressure cooker right? you wont get them sterile without one...
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sandman420
Saint PP


Registered: 06/17/04
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: brainsOplenty]
#7972186 - 02/03/08 09:47 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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me neither most of the time. Sometimes i do and it doesn't make any difference at all. The real key is moisture, split grain and starches.
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shevanel
Gone til November


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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: sandman420]
#7972194 - 02/03/08 09:49 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I have a 27qt pressure cannr with psi gauge.
As soon as I'm confident thisis drained well, I'll fill 1 pint jars 1/2 way, and PC for 90 mins @ 15psi.
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KillerPicklez



Registered: 12/13/07
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: brainsOplenty]
#7972196 - 02/03/08 09:49 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
brainsOplenty said:
Quote:
shevanel said: I picked up some WBS from peningto at the WMart. Taking the steps now to prepare for use. I clearly now see what needs to be removed, all the actual seed sits at the bottom. I'll follow all instructions as listed on here and site.
Can I use the innc'd wbs to innoc other jars as in the rye seed method?
And does 100% of the sunflower seeds need tobe reoved, or just as much as posible?
i don't remove any of the SF seeds. and i never have any contams:)
The problem with SF seeds isnt that they cause contamination, its just that they dont colonize for whatever reason.
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KillerPicklez



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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972201 - 02/03/08 09:51 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
shevanel said: I have a 27qt pressure cannr with psi gauge.
As soon as I'm confident thisis drained well, I'll fill 1 pint jars 1/2 way, and PC for 90 mins @ 15psi.
you can load them up a bit more if you like, like 3/4 full if you are limited on jars.
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brainsOplenty
myconut



Registered: 06/27/06
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: KillerPicklez]
#7972209 - 02/03/08 09:54 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
KillerPicklez said:
Quote:
brainsOplenty said:
Quote:
shevanel said: I picked up some WBS from peningto at the WMart. Taking the steps now to prepare for use. I clearly now see what needs to be removed, all the actual seed sits at the bottom. I'll follow all instructions as listed on here and site.
Can I use the innc'd wbs to innoc other jars as in the rye seed method?
And does 100% of the sunflower seeds need tobe reoved, or just as much as posible?
i don't remove any of the SF seeds. and i never have any contams:)
The problem with SF seeds isnt that they cause contamination, its just that they dont colonize for whatever reason.
i've never noticed any uncolonized SF seeds. alot of times it seems that they are the first to take off
-------------------- FOR GOD'S SAKE MAN! TELL ME ABOUT THE FUCKING GOLF SHOES!!! LIVIN THE LIFE!!! "WE KNOCK NIGGAS OUT AND MAKE EM BOUNCE LIKE RICKY HATTON"- IMMORTAL TECHNIQUE
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shevanel
Gone til November


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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: brainsOplenty]
#7972216 - 02/03/08 09:58 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I have 60 pint jars, but I only want to do a few in this "experimental" phase. Once I no longer feel lke a donkey and get more confidence I'l surely do a bigger batch.
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The shroomy 1
Luminous beings surround me




Registered: 03/27/07
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972224 - 02/03/08 10:00 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
shevanel said: What would you reccomend casing the wbs with?
I'm guessing coco coir.

--------------------
AMU Q&A thread.
Edited by The shroomy 1 (02/03/08 10:01 AM)
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brainsOplenty
myconut



Registered: 06/27/06
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: The shroomy 1]
#7972238 - 02/03/08 10:04 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
The shroomy 1 said:
Quote:
shevanel said: What would you reccomend casing the wbs with?
I'm guessing coco coir.

50/50 peat/verm SUCKA
-------------------- FOR GOD'S SAKE MAN! TELL ME ABOUT THE FUCKING GOLF SHOES!!! LIVIN THE LIFE!!! "WE KNOCK NIGGAS OUT AND MAKE EM BOUNCE LIKE RICKY HATTON"- IMMORTAL TECHNIQUE
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shevanel
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: brainsOplenty]
#7972269 - 02/03/08 10:17 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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yea i posted that LATE, the answer was up in t thread but I was muti-tasking.
PC Time...
Edited by shevanel (02/03/08 10:25 AM)
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shevanel
Gone til November


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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972287 - 02/03/08 10:22 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I did 6 jars.
3/4 full, 2 coffee filters, poly/cap, ring snug. in that order
Amazing how much wasted seed I have left, probably enough for 5 more jars, the seed expaned some.
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shevanel
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972300 - 02/03/08 10:26 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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oh and not to mention, foilx2
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shevanel
Gone til November


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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972346 - 02/03/08 10:39 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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If these jars colinize right, I'll do the 50/50 tek. As these do their thing I'll do my homework on the 50/50 procedure.
Thanks for all the help with the seed.
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KillerPicklez



Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 16,920
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972353 - 02/03/08 10:41 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
shevanel said: If these jars colinize right, I'll do the 50/50 tek. As these do their thing I'll do my homework on the 50/50 procedure.
Thanks for all the help with the seed.
Its just 50% Vermiculite/ 50% Peat Moss.
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shevanel
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: KillerPicklez]
#7972384 - 02/03/08 10:51 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I understand, but for someone who has never done a casing before I'll need to read a bit to understand it all.
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972419 - 02/03/08 11:01 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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its very easy... like I said.. since you want to do experiment, then try a couple of different casing teks, cause one will work better for you than others.. dont use coir in your 5050 mix, because its very nutritious and tends to overlay easily... try peat moss in your 5050 mix with a lil hydrated lime to raise the ph.... or straight vermiculite
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shevanel
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#7972435 - 02/03/08 11:06 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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To sterilize the peat/verm, can I use jars or do I need to get the autoclave bags?
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KillerPicklez



Registered: 12/13/07
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972475 - 02/03/08 11:22 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
shevanel said: To sterilize the peat/verm, can I use jars or do I need to get the autoclave bags?
You may want to try Miracle Grow: Moisture Control. It can be sterilized using a microwave.
with 50/50 Ive always baked it for about 35 minutes at 350 degrees.
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dumbfounded1600
Stranger

Registered: 07/29/07
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972480 - 02/03/08 11:23 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Never sterilize a casing...your killing the beneficial bacteria that helps initiate pinning I think even the Mds would agree as well as some expierenced growers
2. If you are using coco coir as a casing you better be on top of your game and watch it very carefully as it does hole nutrients which bacteria/contaminants need to survive. a good 50/40/10 of Peat/Verm/Coco Coir works very well.
3. MGMC is the same thing as peat/verm and its honestly SHIT compared to just regular Peat/Verm Gypsum Lime... http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6789654
4. Please...Straight vermiculite does work but its not as a casing as it is...1. Hard to tell moisture content, 2. Contaminant Prone(Cobweb Mold Loves It). 3. Doesn't give beneficial Micro organisms as peat/verm does...and is not a casing layer..
Lime Ratio? One teaspoon of lime per CUP of Peat Moss
Gypsum Ratio? 5-10% of gypsum
Peat/Verm/Gypsum/Lime...even the pros agree with this.
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KillerPicklez



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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: dumbfounded1600]
#7972521 - 02/03/08 11:34 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I disagree whole-heartedly about MGMC here are some pictures from mine. As long as it is sterilized it works wonders, especially for beginners.


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dumbfounded1600
Stranger

Registered: 07/29/07
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: KillerPicklez]
#7972542 - 02/03/08 11:41 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Its not good too...you just killed the beneficial micro organisms...heh.
Read that post
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6789654
Edited by dumbfounded1600 (02/03/08 11:42 AM)
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shevanel
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: KillerPicklez]
#7972547 - 02/03/08 11:42 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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ok I can just bake 50/50 in a pan?
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KillerPicklez



Registered: 12/13/07
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: dumbfounded1600]
#7972555 - 02/03/08 11:43 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
dumbfounded1600 said: Its not good too...you just killed the beneficial micro organisms...heh.
Read that post
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6789654
Im OK, I have real life results, I dont need to read other peoples experiences.
Word of mouth only goes so far when you have actually cultivated using the stuff
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shevanel
Gone til November


Registered: 01/27/08
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972561 - 02/03/08 11:44 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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ya'll hijackin my thread and shit.
nah, I love the debates, it allows me to learn from pro's being honest.
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KillerPicklez



Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 16,920
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972571 - 02/03/08 11:46 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
shevanel said: ya'll hijackin my thread and shit.
nah, I love the debates, it allows me to learn from pro's being honest.
I think all it takes is common sense to realize that you should sterilize or pasteurize your casing layer. Id never case my substrate with raw materials straight from the bag.
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shevanel
Gone til November


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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: KillerPicklez]
#7972575 - 02/03/08 11:48 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I understand. My orginial qestion was, can I use jars to sterilze the 50/50 mix?
Than you said bake it.
And I asked, In a regular glass dish?
Edited by shevanel (02/03/08 11:49 AM)
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KillerPicklez



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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972592 - 02/03/08 11:51 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I stand corrected, but its a matter of terminology. RR suggest not sterilizing but pasteurizing instead. And honestly, im not sure what the difference is.
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dumbfounded1600
Stranger

Registered: 07/29/07
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972593 - 02/03/08 11:51 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Agar shits on your face KillerPicklez ha ha
RR/Agar/Hyphae...all those people agree not sterilize your casing layer as it kille the beneficial bacteria that helps mushrooms pin/grow/initiate, ETC..
Sterilizing/Pasteruizing Casing? Never sterilize your casings because it kills the beneficial bacteria that is a pinning trigger and helps fight off contamination. Dead sterilized casing layers have no beneficial micro-organisms to protect it, the chances of contamination are higher, especially with no ph balancing. Farms don't sterilize or pasteurize casing layers either, some species won't even pin if it's been heat treated, the micro-organisms are pinning triggers. Another point is not to sterilize peat or coir in a pressure cooker. Part of what helps initiate pinning is bacteria in the casing layer. If you sterilize it, you lose this feature. Best to pasteurize only. One more point. My research has shown that it is not only unnecessary, but counterproductive to 'incubate' the casing layer. If you case when the substrate is 90% or so covered with mycelium, the myc is growing rapidly and will infiltrate the casing even if you expose to fruiting conditions immediately after applying the casing layer. I've found that if I apply casing, then leave uncovered and exposed to light(which I do from day one, by the way) overlay is never a problem, but the myc colonizes enough of the lower casing to be able to transfer moisture into the substrate. This also leaves a bit of uncolonized casing material to provide all those little 'humid micro-environments' to stimulate pinning. I actually get pissed off when the myc pokes through the casing, even a little bit. It's good to paseurize them tho, becasue peat and coir sometimes have eggs or other things you don't want and none of those more complex organisms can survive paseurization
+ what's the point of a casing layer if it gets colonized with the mycelium ...anything that has nutrients it will colonize
Edited by dumbfounded1600 (02/03/08 11:56 AM)
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shevanel
Gone til November


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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: dumbfounded1600]
#7972609 - 02/03/08 11:54 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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So fuck, what the hell do i need to do now, you guys confused the shit out of me.
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KillerPicklez



Registered: 12/13/07
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: dumbfounded1600]
#7972611 - 02/03/08 11:54 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
dumbfounded1600 said: Agar shits on your face KillerPicklez ha ha
RR/Agar/Hyphae...all those people agree not sterilize your casing layer as it kille the beneficial bacteria that helps mushrooms pin/grow/initiate, ETC..
Yeah I just said that. But they suggest pasteurizing which is a method of killing off contaminants. Im still not clear what the difference is between sterilizing and pasteurizing.
To each his own. I have had plenty of success using my techniques.
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dumbfounded1600
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: KillerPicklez]
#7972620 - 02/03/08 11:57 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I edited it...
Quote:
shevanel said: So fuck, what the hell do i need to do now, you guys confused the shit out of me.
Peat/Verm/Gypsum/Lime I think the pros in shroomery would agree.
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: dumbfounded1600]
#7972626 - 02/03/08 11:58 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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wow.. I didnt know that... I get killer flushes everytime, and I kill all the micro organisms... tttthhhhhhppppppp
sterilize it if you want to help protect against contams... you wont hurt anything... alot of cats sterilize their casing and its fine, so I dont know about the whole killing bacteria and whatnot thing that helps pinning.. all the casing layer is there for is to retain moisture... light, temp drop, fae, and humidity are pinning triggers.. THAT is what makes them pin...
if Im wrong, then correct me.. but even if I am, then the rules dont apply to me, because I always sterilize casings, and always get awesome pinsets... you dont sterilize BULK SUBS (ie poo, straw, coir) because of beneficial bacteria and micro organisms... you pasteurize those...
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shevanel
Gone til November


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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: dumbfounded1600]
#7972631 - 02/03/08 11:58 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
dumbfounded1600 said: I edited it...
Quote:
shevanel said: So fuck, what the hell do i need to do now, you guys confused the shit out of me.
Peat/Verm/Gypsum/Lime I think the pros in shroomery would agree.
Lay it in a glassdish, foil it and bake?
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#7972640 - 02/03/08 12:00 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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and if it needs micro organisms in the casing layer to initiate pinning, then why can you fruit cakes? if you need beneficial bacteria to pin, then why do people, like me, that case with sterilized 100% vermiculite, which has no bacteria or micro organisms, still get lots and lots of mushies...
hhhhmmmmmmmmm?
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dumbfounded1600
Stranger

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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972665 - 02/03/08 12:05 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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same as you would like manure .... Peat/verm/gypsum/lime.....
bring peat/verm to field capacity...in qt jars with warm water to speed up the pasteruization temps....optimally i do 140F-150F....everything will die at those temps besides the beneficial bacteria in peat....with lime and gypsum....lime is NOT contam friendly so you will NOT get contams using it
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dumbfounded1600
Stranger

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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: dumbfounded1600]
#7972678 - 02/03/08 12:07 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Bigger mushrooms is just water based.
Actually, verm can provide moisture to support a flush, but it doesn't fit the definition of 'casing', a term which is tossed around and abused fairly loosely. Furthermore, cobweb mold LOVES plain verm, which lacks the beneficial organisms to fight it off. RR
I dont like it as many others because it damages the myceliul network when you pull a casing off
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: dumbfounded1600]
#7972684 - 02/03/08 12:08 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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160f
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dumbfounded1600
Stranger

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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#7972691 - 02/03/08 12:10 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Like I said...I like to do 140-150F just to be on the safe side to make sure its not going into partial sterilization
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KillerPicklez



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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#7972696 - 02/03/08 12:10 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
DJYoshaBYD said: wow.. I didnt know that... I get killer flushes everytime, and I kill all the micro organisms... tttthhhhhhppppppp
sterilize it if you want to help protect against contams... you wont hurt anything... alot of cats sterilize their casing and its fine, so I dont know about the whole killing bacteria and whatnot thing that helps pinning.. all the casing layer is there for is to retain moisture... light, temp drop, fae, and humidity are pinning triggers.. THAT is what makes them pin...
if Im wrong, then correct me.. but even if I am, then the rules dont apply to me, because I always sterilize casings, and always get awesome pinsets... you dont sterilize BULK SUBS (ie poo, straw, coir) because of beneficial bacteria and micro organisms... you pasteurize those...
Thats how i feel. Ive always sterilized my casing layer because I thought it was common sense to do so. And as you seen with my pictures, my results were just fine
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#7972697 - 02/03/08 12:10 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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what are you talking about? its THE definition of a casing... a non nutritional layer that holds moisture and creates a microclimate for primordia formation... if anything, its is exactly what casing should be... people dont like it, because they prep it wrong, and either let it dry out, or the over mist and drown it... if its done right, it works great..
but yeah.. THE definition of a casing layer...
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shevanel
Gone til November


Registered: 01/27/08
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: dumbfounded1600]
#7972701 - 02/03/08 12:11 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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gotcha.
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KillerPicklez



Registered: 12/13/07
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#7972706 - 02/03/08 12:13 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
DJYoshaBYD said: what are you talking about? its THE definition of a casing... a non nutritional layer that holds moisture and creates a microclimate for primordia formation... if anything, its is exactly what casing should be... people dont like it, because they prep it wrong, and either let it dry out, or the over mist and drown it... if its done right, it works great..
but yeah.. THE definition of a casing layer...
again you are right and dumbfounded is wrong.
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#7972707 - 02/03/08 12:13 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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very true about the partial sterilization thing... I usually keep it at 160f, but that reading is coming from a thermometer that is in the bags I have the substrate in...
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#7972712 - 02/03/08 12:14 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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i know.... haha
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dumbfounded1600
Stranger

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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#7972719 - 02/03/08 12:16 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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KillerPicklez...It's not even worth debating because I know im right...and there are even MODS here that will agree with me...They shit out dingleberrys like you lolololol...No offence...just my opinion
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dumbfounded1600
Stranger

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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: dumbfounded1600]
#7972725 - 02/03/08 12:17 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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It's ok though..my work here is done considering your too ignorant to listen to New/Better Ways...now I see why I don't come here as much as I have
Goodnight.
Edited by dumbfounded1600 (02/03/08 12:17 PM)
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shevanel
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: dumbfounded1600]
#7972730 - 02/03/08 12:17 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Kp and Dj, I'll probably be Pm'n yu laer this week, hoep ya dont mind if I need more info.
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KillerPicklez



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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: dumbfounded1600]
#7972731 - 02/03/08 12:18 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
dumbfounded1600 said: KillerPicklez...It's not even worth debating because I know im right...and there are even MODS here that will agree with me...They shit out dingleberrys like you lolololol...No offence...just my opinion
OK thats fine. then just stop spewing out false information and confusing this poor guy.
He has 2 people here who actually grow mushrooms giving him advice and then there is you who is just patching information from various threads and presenting it as if you actually know something.
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KillerPicklez



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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972739 - 02/03/08 12:19 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
shevanel said: Kp and Dj, I'll probably be Pm'n yu laer this week, hoep ya dont mind if I need more info.
Not at all. We are all here to learn, it just sucks when you have someone who is giving you false information and causing confusion.
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shevanel
Gone til November


Registered: 01/27/08
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: KillerPicklez]
#7972747 - 02/03/08 12:21 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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My Pc is cool, about to shake the seeds around in the jar's and store for cooling.
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DJYoshaBYD


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972806 - 02/03/08 12:32 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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yeah.. quit being a baby cause I am right... where is a mod at... lol
dont be mad... I wasnt trying to make you angry.. I just dont like it when cats spread information that may not be correct or even true... what you said was wrong... casing is exactly what I described it... too bad... haha
hit me up anytime you need help, and I will offer what I can... just remember to ask and read.. dont just listen to one person... when you take in advice from everyone (who knows what they are talking about) then you can come to your own conclusion on the best way to do whatever you wanted to know...
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972837 - 02/03/08 12:38 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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This thread has been closed.
Reason: I figured something must be wrong when I go away for an hour and the thread gets 37 replies.
No way am I going to read all that shit, or I'd probably get out the ban stick. Everybody needs to get a beer and get ready for the superbowl. Knock off the pissing matches please.  RR
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