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 DJYoshaBYD
Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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 Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable?  [Re: shevanel]
#7972419 - 02/03/08 11:01 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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its very easy... like I said.. since you want to do experiment, then try a couple of different casing teks, cause one will work better for you than others.. dont use coir in your 5050 mix, because its very nutritious and tends to overlay easily... try peat moss in your 5050 mix with a lil hydrated lime to raise the ph.... or straight vermiculite
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 shevanel
Gone til November
Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 1,517
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#7972435 - 02/03/08 11:06 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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To sterilize the peat/verm, can I use jars or do I need to get the autoclave bags?
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KillerPicklez
Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 16,920
Loc: 
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972475 - 02/03/08 11:22 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
shevanel said:
To sterilize the peat/verm, can I use jars or do I need to get the autoclave bags?
You may want to try Miracle Grow: Moisture Control. It can be sterilized using a microwave.
with 50/50 Ive always baked it for about 35 minutes at 350 degrees.
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dumbfounded1600
Stranger
Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 2,624
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972480 - 02/03/08 11:23 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Never sterilize a casing...your killing the beneficial bacteria that helps initiate pinning I think even the Mds would agree as well as some expierenced growers
2. If you are using coco coir as a casing you better be on top of your game and watch it very carefully as it does hole nutrients which bacteria/contaminants need to survive. a good 50/40/10 of Peat/Verm/Coco Coir works very well.
3. MGMC is the same thing as peat/verm and its honestly SHIT compared to just regular Peat/Verm Gypsum Lime...
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6789654
4. Please...Straight vermiculite does work but its not as a casing as it is...1. Hard to tell moisture content, 2. Contaminant Prone(Cobweb Mold Loves It). 3. Doesn't give beneficial Micro organisms as peat/verm does...and is not a casing layer..
Lime Ratio?
One teaspoon of lime per CUP of Peat Moss
Gypsum Ratio?
5-10% of gypsum
Peat/Verm/Gypsum/Lime...even the pros agree with this.
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KillerPicklez
Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 16,920
Loc:
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I disagree whole-heartedly about MGMC here are some pictures from mine. As long as it is sterilized it works wonders, especially for beginners.
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dumbfounded1600
Stranger
Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 2,624
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: KillerPicklez]
#7972542 - 02/03/08 11:41 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Its not good too...you just killed the beneficial micro organisms...heh.
Read that post
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6789654
Edited by dumbfounded1600 (02/03/08 11:42 AM)
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shevanel
Gone til November
Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 1,517
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: KillerPicklez]
#7972547 - 02/03/08 11:42 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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ok I can just bake 50/50 in a pan?
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KillerPicklez
Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 16,920
Loc:
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Quote:
dumbfounded1600 said:
Its not good too...you just killed the beneficial micro organisms...heh.
Read that post
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6789654
Im OK, I have real life results, I dont need to read other peoples experiences.
Word of mouth only goes so far when you have actually cultivated using the stuff
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shevanel
Gone til November
Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 1,517
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972561 - 02/03/08 11:44 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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ya'll hijackin my thread and shit.
nah, I love the debates, it allows me to learn from pro's being honest.
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KillerPicklez
Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 16,920
Loc:
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972571 - 02/03/08 11:46 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
shevanel said:
ya'll hijackin my thread and shit.
nah, I love the debates, it allows me to learn from pro's being honest.
I think all it takes is common sense to realize that you should sterilize or pasteurize your casing layer. Id never case my substrate with raw materials straight from the bag.
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shevanel
Gone til November
Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 1,517
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: KillerPicklez]
#7972575 - 02/03/08 11:48 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I understand. My orginial qestion was, can I use jars to sterilze the 50/50 mix?
Than you said bake it.
And I asked, In a regular glass dish?
Edited by shevanel (02/03/08 11:49 AM)
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KillerPicklez
Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 16,920
Loc:
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972592 - 02/03/08 11:51 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I stand corrected, but its a matter of terminology. RR suggest not sterilizing but pasteurizing instead. And honestly, im not sure what the difference is.
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dumbfounded1600
Stranger
Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 2,624
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972593 - 02/03/08 11:51 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Agar shits on your face KillerPicklez ha ha
RR/Agar/Hyphae...all those people agree not sterilize your casing layer as it kille the beneficial bacteria that helps mushrooms pin/grow/initiate, ETC..
Sterilizing/Pasteruizing Casing?
Never sterilize your casings because it kills the beneficial bacteria that is a pinning trigger and helps fight off contamination. Dead sterilized casing layers have no beneficial micro-organisms to protect it, the chances of contamination are higher, especially with no ph balancing. Farms don't sterilize or pasteurize casing layers either, some species won't even pin if it's been heat treated, the micro-organisms are pinning triggers. Another point is not to sterilize peat or coir in a pressure cooker. Part of what helps initiate pinning is bacteria in the casing layer. If you sterilize it, you lose this feature. Best to pasteurize only. One more point. My research has shown that it is not only unnecessary, but counterproductive to 'incubate' the casing layer. If you case when the substrate is 90% or so covered with mycelium, the myc is growing rapidly and will infiltrate the casing even if you expose to fruiting conditions immediately after applying the casing layer. I've found that if I apply casing, then leave uncovered and exposed to light(which I do from day one, by the way) overlay is never a problem, but the myc colonizes enough of the lower casing to be able to transfer moisture into the substrate. This also leaves a bit of uncolonized casing material to provide all those little 'humid micro-environments' to stimulate pinning. I actually get pissed off when the myc pokes through the casing, even a little bit. It's good to paseurize them tho, becasue peat and coir sometimes have eggs or other things you don't want and none of those more complex organisms can survive paseurization
+ what's the point of a casing layer if it gets colonized with the mycelium  ...anything that has nutrients it will colonize
Edited by dumbfounded1600 (02/03/08 11:56 AM)
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shevanel
Gone til November
Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 1,517
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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So fuck, what the hell do i need to do now, you guys confused the shit out of me.
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KillerPicklez
Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 16,920
Loc:
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Quote:
dumbfounded1600 said:
Agar shits on your face KillerPicklez ha ha
RR/Agar/Hyphae...all those people agree not sterilize your casing layer as it kille the beneficial bacteria that helps mushrooms pin/grow/initiate, ETC..
Yeah I just said that. But they suggest pasteurizing which is a method of killing off contaminants. Im still not clear what the difference is between sterilizing and pasteurizing.
To each his own. I have had plenty of success using my techniques.
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dumbfounded1600
Stranger
Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 2,624
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: KillerPicklez]
#7972620 - 02/03/08 11:57 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I edited it...
Quote:
shevanel said:
So fuck, what the hell do i need to do now, you guys confused the shit out of me.
Peat/Verm/Gypsum/Lime I think the pros in shroomery would agree.
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DJYoshaBYD
Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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wow.. I didnt know that... I get killer flushes everytime, and I kill all the micro organisms... tttthhhhhhppppppp
sterilize it if you want to help protect against contams... you wont hurt anything... alot of cats sterilize their casing and its fine, so I dont know about the whole killing bacteria and whatnot thing that helps pinning.. all the casing layer is there for is to retain moisture... light, temp drop, fae, and humidity are pinning triggers.. THAT is what makes them pin...
if Im wrong, then correct me.. but even if I am, then the rules dont apply to me, because I always sterilize casings, and always get awesome pinsets... you dont sterilize BULK SUBS (ie poo, straw, coir) because of beneficial bacteria and micro organisms... you pasteurize those...
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shevanel
Gone til November
Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 1,517
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Quote:
dumbfounded1600 said:
I edited it...
Quote:
shevanel said:
So fuck, what the hell do i need to do now, you guys confused the shit out of me.
Peat/Verm/Gypsum/Lime I think the pros in shroomery would agree.
Lay it in a glassdish, foil it and bake?
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DJYoshaBYD
Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#7972640 - 02/03/08 12:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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and if it needs micro organisms in the casing layer to initiate pinning, then why can you fruit cakes? if you need beneficial bacteria to pin, then why do people, like me, that case with sterilized 100% vermiculite, which has no bacteria or micro organisms, still get lots and lots of mushies...
hhhhmmmmmmmmm?
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dumbfounded1600
Stranger
Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 2,624
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Re: Is this particular WBS acceptable? [Re: shevanel]
#7972665 - 02/03/08 12:05 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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same as you would like manure .... Peat/verm/gypsum/lime.....
bring peat/verm to field capacity...in qt jars with warm water to speed up the pasteruization temps....optimally i do 140F-150F....everything will die at those temps besides the beneficial bacteria in peat....with lime and gypsum....lime is NOT contam friendly so you will NOT get contams using it
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