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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Do you really want to surrender to this?
    #7965233 - 02/01/08 02:50 PM (16 years, 12 hours ago)

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=4226818

Quote:

Remote-controlled explosives strapped to two mentally retarded women detonated in a coordinated attack on Baghdad pet bazaars Friday, Iraqi officials said, killing at least 73 people in the deadliest day since the U.S. sent 30,000 extra troops to the capital last spring.

The chief Iraqi military spokesman in Baghdad, Brig. Gen. Qassim al-Moussawi, said the female bombers had Down syndrome and that the explosives were detonated by remote control indicating they may not having been willing attackers in what could be a new method by suspected Sunni insurgents to subvert stepped up security measures.




Later in the article an American commander ascribes the attack to al-Q in Iraq. No matter. Never surrender to people like this regardless of their affiliation or victims.

I eagerly await the morally bankrupt and mentally vacant morons here who will no doubt explain that the people who did this are freedom fighters driven to such harsh means by the eeevil BUUUUUUUUSHitler and the genocidal foreign policy of every American administration ever.


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OfflineFahrenheit
Spring Awakening
Male


Registered: 01/29/08 Happy 16th Shroomiversary!
Posts: 27
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7965336 - 02/01/08 03:19 PM (16 years, 12 hours ago)

Yes.


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7965342 - 02/01/08 03:20 PM (16 years, 12 hours ago)

they were retarded?


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7965346 - 02/01/08 03:21 PM (16 years, 12 hours ago)

Why do I care if a bunch of idiots (not the women in the story) in another country want to kill each other... when they bomb the New York Petting Zoo rather than the Baghdad Petting Zoo, then I will support military action. Until then, let Darwin rule.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinekidaihuan
First Growery Ban
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Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 3,173
Loc: Shanghai, China
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Seuss]
    #7965472 - 02/01/08 04:02 PM (16 years, 11 hours ago)

Kill all Americans!


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
Scholar
Male


Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Seuss]
    #7965532 - 02/01/08 04:12 PM (16 years, 11 hours ago)

---


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 12:22 PM)


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InvisibleJonnyOnTheSpot
Sober Surfer
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/27/02
Posts: 11,527
Loc: North Carolina
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #7965580 - 02/01/08 04:21 PM (16 years, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
Quote:

Why do I care if a bunch of idiots (not the women in the story) in another country want to kill each other... when they bomb the New York Petting Zoo rather than the Baghdad Petting Zoo, then I will support military action. Until then, let Darwin rule.




:thumbup:

People able to think for themselves realize that if the U.S. government doesn't involve itself into internal affairs of Arab & Muslim nations (which it has been doing for decades), then while Islamic religious extremists will still exist, they will be preoccupied with killing each other in Arab & Muslim countries, which need not be a concern to people living halfway around the world... unless, of course, there's oil over there that people halfway around the world need.

Take Brazil, for example. I believe Brazil produces all of it's energy; it hasn't involved itself into the internal governmental & societal affairs of an Arab or Muslim nation anywhere across the ocean to date that I'm aware of. I've also never heard a Muslim or group of Muslims chant "death to Brazil"; nor am I aware of a Muslim organization plotting terrorist attacks against either the government or people of Brazil.

Lesson that a rational & reasonable person can take away from this...

The U.S. should be spending hundreds of billions of dollars becoming energy independent & implementing & utilizing renewable sources within its own borders instead of spending hundreds of billions of dollars to control oil in the Middle East.

Quote:

zappaisgod: I eagerly await the morally bankrupt and mentally vacant morons here who will no doubt explain that the people who did this are freedom fighters...




Wow... it must be easy to convince yourself of your superior debating & argumentative skill when you position yourself against imaginary people that don't actually exist here. Unless, of course, you can document instances of support for al-Qaeda on the Shroomery.




QFT

couldn't have said it better myself.


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Invisiblezorbman
blarrr
Male


Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
    #7965604 - 02/01/08 04:28 PM (16 years, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

couldn't have said it better myself.




:thumbup:


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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InvisibleMinstrel
Man of Science
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 1,974
Loc: Hogtown
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7965634 - 02/01/08 04:33 PM (16 years, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=4226818

Quote:

Remote-controlled explosives strapped to two mentally retarded women detonated in a coordinated attack on Baghdad pet bazaars Friday, Iraqi officials said, killing at least 73 people in the deadliest day since the U.S. sent 30,000 extra troops to the capital last spring.

The chief Iraqi military spokesman in Baghdad, Brig. Gen. Qassim al-Moussawi, said the female bombers had Down syndrome and that the explosives were detonated by remote control indicating they may not having been willing attackers in what could be a new method by suspected Sunni insurgents to subvert stepped up security measures.




Later in the article an American commander ascribes the attack to al-Q in Iraq. No matter. Never surrender to people like this regardless of their affiliation or victims.

I eagerly await the morally bankrupt and mentally vacant morons here who will no doubt explain that the people who did this are freedom fighters driven to such harsh means by the eeevil BUUUUUUUUSHitler and the genocidal foreign policy of every American administration ever.




Zzzap is right again, as usual. America has a duty to prevent people world wide to not strap bombs to retards. America will kill the retards, if need be, to preserve their freedom. America is like the Scientoologist of the world. They'll step in and take action to write these wrongs, because no one else will; they understand evil, being mostly composed of it in the form of talking bags of mostly lipids and water (plus some Theatans, PRAISE XENU).

President Bush agrees as well, being the son of a former head of US eugenics policy. He knows that though killing retards is admirable, it is to be done in a much more expensive way.


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OfflineSyle
Kenai Sigh
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Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 6,678
Loc: WA
Last seen: 10 months, 26 days
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Seuss]
    #7965636 - 02/01/08 04:34 PM (16 years, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
Why do I care if a bunch of idiots (not the women in the story) in another country want to kill each other... when they bomb the New York Petting Zoo rather than the Baghdad Petting Zoo, then I will support military action. Until then, let Darwin rule.




because of oil obviously. not saying it's right, just stating the obvious.


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https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!


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OfflineVisionary Tools
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 7,953
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7965688 - 02/01/08 04:48 PM (16 years, 10 hours ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=4226818

Quote:

Remote-controlled explosives strapped to two mentally retarded women detonated in a coordinated attack on Baghdad pet bazaars Friday, Iraqi officials said, killing at least 73 people in the deadliest day since the U.S. sent 30,000 extra troops to the capital last spring.

The chief Iraqi military spokesman in Baghdad, Brig. Gen. Qassim al-Moussawi, said the female bombers had Down syndrome and that the explosives were detonated by remote control indicating they may not having been willing attackers in what could be a new method by suspected Sunni insurgents to subvert stepped up security measures.




I'm going to make a strawman attack.




Fuck you. I don't like seeing morons blown up, sitting on their arses, doing no good, and being targets to psychopaths that now have no law to reign them in. I'd much rather the soldiers where back in my country, defending people that would care for them. All they are doing there is pissing. petrol onto an already hot fire.


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OfflineRosettaStoned
Stranger


Registered: 05/29/06
Posts: 540
Loc: North America
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7965699 - 02/01/08 04:50 PM (16 years, 10 hours ago)

Quote:

Remote-controlled explosives strapped to two mentally retarded women detonated in a coordinated attack on Baghdad pet bazaars Friday




Ah yes, yet another story of the evil arabs killing people in their own country. And what proof of this do we have?

Iraqi officials said

That sums it up for me! It must have been the evil arabs! No chance that blackwater/mossad/cia/special ops planted the explosives ahead of time! Nope, no chance at all!

Meanwhile back here where the sane people reside...we know damn well that not all of the "suicide" bombings or "al-Q" attacks are arabs just because the associated press says so. No doubt the arabs are committing attacks but the simple facts are we just don't know what to believe or who to blame when a market blows up in iraq or when buildings fall in america. The best we can do is ask: Who benefits?


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"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Syle]
    #7965843 - 02/01/08 05:25 PM (16 years, 10 hours ago)

> because of oil obviously. not saying it's right, just stating the obvious.

A valid point. However, I would much rather see us dump tax money into fusion research that would free us from oil forever rather than military action to secure something that is only going to last for a few hundred years, at most.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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Invisiblekake
The answer to1984 is 1776.
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/06/99
Posts: 2,782
Loc: The 66th harmonic
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7966034 - 02/01/08 06:14 PM (16 years, 9 hours ago)

How about the shit that goes down in Darfur?

You wanna play the humanitarian cards? Don't bother, fool.


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The answer to 1984 is 1776.


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InvisibleAnastomosisJihad
Hominid
Male


Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 700
Loc: Ohio
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Minstrel]
    #7966055 - 02/01/08 06:19 PM (16 years, 9 hours ago)

Quote:

Zzzap is right again, as usual. America has a duty to prevent people world wide to not strap bombs to retards. America will kill the retards, if need be, to preserve their freedom. America is like the Scientoologist of the world. They'll step in and take action to write these wrongs, because no one else will; they understand evil, being mostly composed of it in the form of talking bags of mostly lipids and water (plus some Theatans, PRAISE XENU).


:rotfl:


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come together


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Offlineledfut
I once jerkedoff w/ bothhands
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 15 years, 20 days
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7966140 - 02/01/08 06:36 PM (16 years, 9 hours ago)

all i gotta say is that at least they used the retards to good use. unlike bush who just gives them the chair.


--------------------
May our only occupation be not having a job.
May the only cocktails that we make be molitov.
-Johnny Hobo and the Freight Trains


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InvisibleFecalDildo
Fat LadiesBingo.
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Registered: 04/25/04
Posts: 9,645
Loc: Ass Flavour Pie Factory.
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: ledfut]
    #7966225 - 02/01/08 07:08 PM (16 years, 8 hours ago)

Forensics must be amazing these days, apparently you can tell from tiny pieces of vaporised flesh weather or not someone has downs syndrome. LOL @ Propaganda bullshit.


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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7966239 - 02/01/08 07:14 PM (16 years, 8 hours ago)

No surrender FTW


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OfflineApJunkie
part-time Ninja
Male


Registered: 08/17/06
Posts: 2,735
Loc: Loc:Loc:Loc:Loc:Loc:
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: FecalDildo]
    #7966270 - 02/01/08 07:27 PM (16 years, 8 hours ago)

Quote:

FecalDildo said:
Forensics must be amazing these days, apparently you can tell from tiny pieces of vaporised flesh weather or not someone has downs syndrome. LOL @ Propaganda bullshit.




Well actually you can.

But I highly doubt anyone in Iraq gives enough of a shit to send out a sample for mapping.

Moral of the story; Also LOL @propaganda bulshit.


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InvisibleStroFun
Repeater


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 977
Loc: Mycotopia.net
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: DieCommie]
    #7966284 - 02/01/08 07:31 PM (16 years, 8 hours ago)

LOL@ Zappa


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7966292 - 02/01/08 07:34 PM (16 years, 8 hours ago)

Zappa

Did you hear, In 2002, Some crazy ass drunk American terrorists strapped themselves to automobiles and killed 16,972 Americans.:what:

Get your neocon friends on the phone and tell them this domestic terrorist group, called Al Drunk Driving Ass Queda, is killing far more Americans every year, right here on our own soil and that we need to be spending $4,000,000,000 a month to stop them and save Americans from this far greater terrorist threat.

Apparently Washington didn't get the memo on this FAR greater threat to all of our lives. RP was right, the CIA is useless, save for bringing drugs into the country.

On a side note,  if some crazy strapped and detonated bombs on to, two people with downs, that sounds like something the local police should investigate and take care of. Why is that the job of a military from a country on the other side of the planet?

China doesn't come here and take care of our murders for us.

And who is going after Rumsfield , who helped to get the toxic poison Aspartame approved by the FDA, after they had been shooting it down for over 10 years because it is a toxic poison, that is causing cancer in and killing  millions of Americans?

We have more then enough domestic terrorists to take care of. We don't need to be going over seas to save far more American lives every year from the reckless, careless, crazies we have right here at home.

Our priorities are so fucked up!!!!


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
Not here
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Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,509
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Canada ...
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7967038 - 02/01/08 10:45 PM (16 years, 4 hours ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:

Get your neocon friends on the phone and tell them this domestic terrorist group, called Al Drunk Driving Ass Queda, is killing far more Americans every year, right here on our own soil and that we need to be spending $4,000,000,000 a month to stop them and save Americans from this far greater terrorist threat.





I'm confused... where did you hear $4,000,000,000 a month can eradicate drunk driving?


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #7967048 - 02/01/08 10:48 PM (16 years, 4 hours ago)

Quote:

RosettaStoned said:

Ah yes, yet another story of the evil arabs killing people in their own country. And what proof of this do we have?

Iraqi officials said

That sums it up for me! It must have been the evil arabs! No chance that blackwater/mossad/cia/special ops planted the explosives ahead of time! Nope, no chance at all!





Let me guess, you think the same group blew up the WTC?


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male


Folding@home Statistics
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7967194 - 02/01/08 11:28 PM (16 years, 4 hours ago)

I believe it is delusional at best to believe that we can fight these people into thinking that this sort of behavior is not acceptable? Are we going to kill every person who thinks this way or at least waste US lives trying to do so for the indefinite future? It's not about surrendering, but more so about developing some reasonable goals to counter this sort of thinking, because eradicating everyone who thinks and do these things is impossible.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7967305 - 02/02/08 12:16 AM (16 years, 3 hours ago)

Quote:

WhiskeyClone said:
Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:

Get your neocon friends on the phone and tell them this domestic terrorist group, called Al Drunk Driving Ass Queda, is killing far more Americans every year, right here on our own soil and that we need to be spending $4,000,000,000 a month to stop them and save Americans from this far greater terrorist threat.





I'm confused... where did you hear $4,000,000,000 a month can eradicate drunk driving?




That is how much we are spending a month trying to eradicate terrorists.

My research shows that drunk drivers kill more people per year in the U.S. then Al Queda members do. I don't see us throwing $4,000,000,000. a month at the threat of being killed by a drunk driver.

Why does our government feel the need to spend that sort of cash a month to keep a crazy from blowing us up, yet not on keeping a crazy from, smashing us up?

What's the difference other then the threat of being killed by a drunk driver is much higher and more probable then the threat of being killed by a terrorist.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: FecalDildo]
    #7967400 - 02/02/08 01:06 AM (16 years, 2 hours ago)

> Forensics must be amazing these days, apparently you can tell from tiny pieces of vaporised flesh weather or not someone has downs syndrome. LOL @ Propaganda bullshit.

Much easier just to talk to the family and neighbors of the woman that were used.  Usually, the head remains intact after a suicide vest detonates making positive identification fairly easy.  Arms, hands, and legs also usually remain scattered about.  Good thing we don't ID people by their chests, otherwise we would have to do as you suggest, and look at DNA from tiny bits of leftover flesh or bone.

> Did you hear, In 2002, Some crazy ass drunk American terrorists strapped themselves to automobiles and killed 16,972 Americans.:what:

In my mind there is a pretty large difference between a drunk driver killing somebody in a car accident and a terrorist killing somebody in a "military" action.  (This is from somebody that lost his first girlfriend to a drunk driver in high school; I have zero sympathy for drunk drivers.)


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InvisibleLuddite
I watch Fox News
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,946
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Seuss]
    #7967776 - 02/02/08 07:45 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Bush Mulls Bin Laden Offer to Convert to Islam
by Scott Ott for ScrappleFace · 30 Comments

(2007-09-07) — Just hours after the release of al Qaeda leader Usama bin Laden’s latest video message inviting all Americans to convert to Islam, U.S. President George said he would “seriously consider the offer, because it sure would simplify the war in Iraq.”

“If I convert to Islam and order all of our troops to do the same,” said Mr. Bush, “we can stay in Iraq indefinitely, drop the restrictive rules of engagement, save a lot of money by using cheap, unguided bombs, clear neighborhoods flat out, blow up mosques with impunity and still go to heaven — not to mention that I’d get more favorable coverage from the U.S. news media.”

The president added that he might convert to Islam just to “find out what it’s like to be a man who wears a dress and a bonnet and dyes his hair like a girl.”

http://www.scrappleface.com/?p=2671


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InvisibleLuddite
I watch Fox News
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Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,946
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Luddite]
    #7967794 - 02/02/08 07:52 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

KSM: Terrorism So Easy, Even Caveman Can Do It
by Scott Ott for ScrappleFace · 25 Comments

(2007-03-15) — Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks, today answered skeptics who doubt that he could have planned the 31 terror plots to which he confessed this week.

“Why these doubts,” said Mr. Sheikh Mohammed. “Terrorism is so easy, even a caveman could do it.”

The hirsute al Qaeda lieutenant also said he was humbled by the way journalists always refer to him as a “mastermind”.

“If I build skyscraper or design jet plane, that make Khalid mastermind,” he said. “But I just ordinary schlub who knock down buildings and cut off heads. Mastermind? It make me blush my face.”

http://www.scrappleface.com/?p=2519



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InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: StroFun]
    #7967884 - 02/02/08 08:40 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

StroFun said:
LOL@ Zappa




...again and again.


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
Not here
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,509
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Canada ...
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Redstorm]
    #7967920 - 02/02/08 09:01 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
I believe it is delusional at best to believe that we can fight these people into thinking that this sort of behavior is not acceptable? Are we going to kill every person who thinks this way or at least waste US lives trying to do so for the indefinite future? It's not about surrendering, but more so about developing some reasonable goals to counter this sort of thinking, because eradicating everyone who thinks and do these things is impossible.




:thumbup:

We are never going to pick up the morning paper and find the headline "Last terrorist killed.  War on Terror a success."  Not in five years, twenty years, a hundred years.  Eradication of anything (drug abuse, terrorism, corruption) is unachieveable, and any operation whose criteria include it will go on forever.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7967938 - 02/02/08 09:09 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I eagerly await the morally bankrupt and mentally vacant morons here who will no doubt explain that the people who did this are freedom fighters driven to such harsh means by the eeevil BUUUUUUUUSHitler and the genocidal foreign policy of every American administration ever.

first explain again why if we weren't over there this would be of any importance to us whatsoever. :tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Seuss]
    #7968284 - 02/02/08 11:31 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> Did you hear, In 2002, Some crazy ass drunk American terrorists strapped themselves to automobiles and killed 16,972 Americans.:what:

In my mind there is a pretty large difference between a drunk driver killing somebody in a car accident and a terrorist killing somebody in a "military" action.  (This is from somebody that lost his first girlfriend to a drunk driver in high school; I have zero sympathy for drunk drivers.)




Weather you sympathize with someone believing they are protecting or defending something with a military style action, and not someone who decides to drink and drive, the fact remains, death by a drunk driver threatens the lives of more Americans, yet, that threat to our lives is not treated with any where near the same amount of concern, action or money by our government.

I think those who support this war in Iraq, because they fear for their lives in a terrorist attack, should question then, why our government doesn't spend the same amount of money, man power and action, protecting us from something proven to be a far greater threat to our lives.

Or in the least, it may be time for them to admit to themselves, that our motives for spending $4,000,000,0000 a month in the war on terror, may not be, because our government really gives two shitz about what out there threatens to kill us.

In light of all the real threats to our daily lives here, statistically, terrorism, isn't anywhere near the top of the list.

In 2006 alone, cancer killed approximately 556,000 American Lives.

Since Sept of 2003, illegal aliens have murdered 45,625 Americans.

I'll stop right at that one. If our government cares so much about protecting us from threats to our lives coming from abroad, with these stats, why are they softening our borders, making it easier for more to come here and kill us?

Our government supports and protects far greater threats to our daily lives is my point.

Ask any brainwashed American what the greatest threat is today to their lives and they will say it's Islamic extremists and that they support spending $4,000,000,000. a month on protecting us from them.

I don't even know how to answer Zaps question because as far as I see it, Americans have been threatening the Islamic way of life with our mission to modernize them with our Western Influence, and with the presence of our Military bases on their soil. We are currently on a mission to hand rights to Iraqi Oil over to Western Oil companies to profit from.


Yes, some Islamics in the middle east are pissed at us and yes, I think we should pull out entirely and leave them be to run their own countries and profit from their own natural resources.

Enough of being over there to protect interests in Oil and so greedy companies like Halliburton and Black water can obnoxiously profit off of this sham. Scientists will tell you that we have had the technology to become energy independent for decades now.

16 Crazy Saudis killed 5,000 Americans in 2001, and Americans along with their government supported the loss of now over 5,000 U.S. soldiers, and the murder of over 151,000 Iraqis in response to it, even though anyone not brainwashed knows, those additional lives were lost over oil and profit.

You have a funny way of defining moral bankruptcy zappa. :tongue:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7968372 - 02/02/08 11:59 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Jiggy, you are so sloppy with numbers it's not even funny anymore.

There were 19 hijackers, not 16. Those hijackers didn't kill 5,000 Americans, they killed around 2800. There haven't been 5,000 American troop deaths in Iraq, there's been around 4000.

As for your 151,000 Iraqi lives lost, no... they were not lost for oil and profit. Only brainwashed people swallow that garbage.




Phred


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Phred]
    #7968385 - 02/02/08 12:02 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I'm more in agreement with you than him, but its not like they were lost for some much higher ideal...

Democracy is useless when you're dead as a doornail.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Icelander]
    #7968398 - 02/02/08 12:05 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

There seems to be some general categories of response.

1. If you can't stop them all there is no sense trying to stop any of them. The crime of murder will never be eliminated. Does that mean we should stop prosecuting it?

1a. Subset of above. If we don't try to stop all of them (Darfur), we shouldn't try to stop any of them. Absurd for the same reason as 1 above with the additional note that we have additional interests in this particular application (Iraq and Afghanistan) and none in that application(Darfur). I am not aware that Darfur has led to any exported criminals.

2. We never should have gone there at all because it is none of our business. This has been argued over and over again and the isolationism of the Paulnuts seems to be reigniting it here. Over and over again. And then some more. I'm not going to derail my own thread with an irrelevant argument. We ARE there. Now what? Surrender to people who are willing to strap bombs to retards to kill dozens of other people doing nothing worse than going about their own business? Purchasing pet birds for instance. Or do we continue to fight them until they are brought down to level that the Iraqis can handle on their own? I repeat, we are already there. You cannot turn that back. The situation is what it is. Make your own thread. Again. And your own answer to the question, for which I have received exactly one answer, which came from DieCommie, who said, "Never surrender." That's my answer, too.

3. Doubts as to whether it happened. Yes yes yes, Bushitler propaganda. Fine. Consider it a hypothetical question then.

4. OTD posters ShitDick and ledfut. 'Nuff said.

5. jiggy, who for some reason went off on drunk drivers and aspartame. Aspartame? I will not respond to the latest jiggy because it is so far off topic. She probably thinks thimerosol causes autism. Start another thread.

ARE YOU WILLING TO SURRENDER TO THESE PEOPLE WHO STRAP BOMBS TO RETARDS?


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Phred]
    #7968401 - 02/02/08 12:06 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Wow, zappa is really preaching to the choir here. :smirk:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7968409 - 02/02/08 12:10 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ARE YOU WILLING TO SURRENDER TO THESE PEOPLE WHO STRAP BOMBS TO RETARDS?


NO!  :thumbup: 

The global jihad is a real threat to classical civilization.  The people on this thread, for the most part, dont see it.  They sit at home warm and comfortable thinking they are insulated from it.  But the jihad rages on in nearly every continent.  Ignoring it and hiding from it wont make it go away.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7968414 - 02/02/08 12:11 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
I'm more in agreement with you than him, but its not like they were lost for some much higher ideal...

Democracy is useless when you're dead as a doornail.




And I do not believe that it has ever been achieved without some loss of life. There always has been and always will be those who would wish to enslave others for their own benefit. And they don't give a fuck about anybody else's life. They must be fought. THAT is the theme of this thread. That there are murderous thugs who would sacrifice any life to subjugate others. They have no scruples and no restrictions. Do you want to cede the territory to THEM?

I believe jiggy is female, by the way.


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: DieCommie]
    #7968529 - 02/02/08 12:38 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

---


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 12:23 PM)


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InvisiblePenguarky Tunguin
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7968585 - 02/02/08 12:51 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Two women set off separate suicide bombs in two markets in Baghdad on Friday, killing at least 91 persons and wounding a similar number. Contrary to what this AP squib implies, the bombings suggest neither that "al-Qaeda" is running out of men nor that it is desperate. Women were used because they would be less likely to be closely searched, in a society where gender segregation and female honor and chastity are important values. The story that the women had Downs syndrome seems unlikely to be true; you wouldn't trust a sensitive terror plot to someone without their full faculties. Rather, the bombings show that the Sunni Arab guerrillas seeking to destabilize Iraq have not been defeated and are still capable of making a big strike right under the noses of the surge troops. And that is how guerrilla war is-- large conventional forces find it difficult to curb it.




www.Juancole.com


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Penguarky Tunguin]
    #7968600 - 02/02/08 12:54 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

So he has no evidence, just his own intuition?

Man, if only I could say whatever I wanted and have people believe it...


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Phred]
    #7968608 - 02/02/08 12:58 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Phred,

The numbers were aproximate that if changed to yours, being so close, the basic points still remain in tact. You further helped to show that the risk of death by an Islamic terrorist in America is so low, it barely measures on the scale compared to others we face here.


And be it 19, 18, 17, or 16, same insignificant difference. Since when do 19 crazy people mostly from Saudi Arabia make up the Country of Iraq, or any country for that matter?

I don't know about you but this topic was never funny to me. Crazy insane mad sort of "funny" it's chalk full of. Death by murder no matter who is doing the killing is never funny.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Edited by gettinjiggywithit (02/02/08 01:00 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7968661 - 02/02/08 01:08 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

which came from DieCommie, who said, "Never surrender." That's my answer, too.


:rofl2: Who's attacking us? If they were over here killing us for our gold and resources then I would be fighting with everything I had (and all would be fair then wouldn't you say my boy?). But lets say I go over my neighbors fence and start taking his firewood. Do I really have a right/moral high ground to fight him and declare that when he fights back that I should "never surrender".

Not too rational IMO unless your goal is to steal and call it something else.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (02/02/08 01:09 PM)


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Icelander]
    #7968709 - 02/02/08 01:18 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

What if someone is trying to kill your neighbor and he asks for your help, will you just say "No, we're okay over here."


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7968726 - 02/02/08 01:23 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Well it helps to determine who really is at fault before I enter into someone else's defense. We seem (as a military power) to ignore most who ask for our help that don't have resources that we deem valuable. That should tell you something about what kind of "friends" we make.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7968731 - 02/02/08 01:24 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Is it another neighbour who is trying to kill them, or is the neighbour trying to kill theirself? Or is the neighbour trying to kill the neighbour who came over to help by killing the neighbour after the neighbour called for help?


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7968739 - 02/02/08 01:25 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Remind me not to move to your neighborhood.

Christ...


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7968753 - 02/02/08 01:28 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Let me guess, you think the same group blew up the WTC?




How is that a relevant question? The fact remains there is no definitive answer as to who committed 9/11 nor the many, many very huge casualty attacks in iraq. The govt failed to prove its case beyond the shadow of a doubt (given the massive holes in the story). If you can reconcile with the huge discrepancies and coincidences in the official story and come to the conclusion it is correct that is fine. Just remember that doesn't make it fact that you believe that, it's merely your opinion.

Anyhow, the point is the associated press citing anonymous iraqi officials is not a judge, jury and executioner. There were british servicemen in fallujah, iraq caught in the midst of committing a terrorist attack. They were caught by iraq police and jailed when american special ops came, busted them out and "freed" them. Right after that we fucked that city up with everything we had.

Do not disregard factual evidence out of some loyalty or patriotism to your country. The leaders of your armed forces and political parties are not "america". Being a true patriot means questioning your leaders at every turn and not letting them commit acts at home or abroad that casts your country in a bad light.


--------------------
"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7968763 - 02/02/08 01:31 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Yet more derailment. We are already there. Woulda, coulda, shoulda is for ANOTHER THREAD. From the newspaper reports, the bomb vests were strapped to retards and remotely detonated. Assume them correct. Answer the fucking question since it is the only question of any relevance.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7968770 - 02/02/08 01:34 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
So he has no evidence, just his own intuition?

Man, if only I could say whatever I wanted and have people believe it...




Yes, I am a she, and Phreds numbers were off as well and exacts were not relevant to my posts. If you want to split hairs and have fact checks here you go

Phred said 2800 Americans died in the Sept 11 attacks.

This wiki site says at least 2,985 did.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_people_died_in_the_September_11_2001_attacks

Phred said there were 19 Hijackers.

This wiki site says 7 or 8 are still alive. They couldn't have been hijacking those planes if they are still alive. The number was not 19. It was closer to 11 or 12.

http://911review.org/Wiki/HijackersAliveAndWell.shtml

Phred said 4,000 U.S. Soldiers were killed in Iraq.

This site says 3,865 were and 28,773 have been wounded. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_casualties.htm

Well, it was only 3,865 brothers, husbands, wives, sisters, daughters, mothers, fathers, and friends of Americans that were killed serving in Iraq so far, not 5,000. That difference corrected means what difference? We still lost more of our soldiers responding to the deaths of the Hijack victims, then those killed by the hijackers.


Justify the death to death ratios for me.

11-19 non U.S. citizens killed 2,985 Americans.

The U.S. responded by killing anywhere from 100,000- 1,000,000 million Iraqis, and getting 3,895 more of our own soldiers killed.

None of this makes rational sense to me to have even started let alone continue on with, even when both Phreds and my numbers are corrected with evidential links down to the single digits.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: DieCommie]
    #7968810 - 02/02/08 01:44 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

ARE YOU WILLING TO SURRENDER TO THESE PEOPLE WHO STRAP BOMBS TO RETARDS?


NO!  :thumbup: 

The global jihad is a real threat to classical civilization.  The people on this thread, for the most part, dont see it.  They sit at home warm and comfortable thinking they are insulated from it.  But the jihad rages on in nearly every continent.  Ignoring it and hiding from it wont make it go away.




Exactly. Supporting the war is a lot easier when you're sitting in America and the biggest thing you have to worry about is the housing market falling.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Redstorm]
    #7968864 - 02/02/08 01:56 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

As is not supporting it when you know that there are adults who will do the job for you whether you realize you need it or not. Like Ron Paul votes in Congress.

Jiggy seems to be wrapped up in the number of people actually on the planes and think that was the sum total of people involved. There was an organization of thousands, maybe millions, who worked on it, donated to it, supported it with their governments and shamans. Many, many are now dead and will no longer do that. Let us discourage those left. Surely they will run out of retards. Unless they start recruiting at a Ron Paul gathering. That group seems to have a limitless number. Too bad they can't figure out voting machines.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7968897 - 02/02/08 02:06 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I didn't say anything about Ron Paul. I'm not a Paul supporter but I still belief the war is not in my best interest and it nothing but a money pit. We need to put some pressure on Iraq to get their shit together. They need some ultimatums.

Also, there is a difference between the ignorant comforts of those who support the war versus those who don't. Someone who feels strongly in favor of the war can get actively involved in it. How much can someone who does not support the war do anything to further their cause? Fly to Iraq and begin kidnapping soldiers back tot he US? War supporters can put up or shut up, but war protesters can't.


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7968904 - 02/02/08 02:08 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

>>Jiggy seems to be wrapped up in the number of people actually on the planes and think that was the sum total of people involved. There was an organization of thousands, maybe millions, who worked on it, donated to it, supported it with their governments and shamans


Jiggy actually made the point that the specific numbers don't matter, referred to it as hair splitting, but was pointing out that while Phred made a deal of her #'s being off, his were also off.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7968913 - 02/02/08 02:10 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

zapp, The Al Queda organization was said to be in the low thousands before 9/11. Since we invaded Iraq, it has grown exponentially.

You are trying to make it sound like there were far more, then just a few thousand out of a population of 6 Billion people, and that we have since reduced their numbers.

Wrong you are.

My point about emphasizing the hijackers numbers and that most of them were Saudis, is to remind everyone that it was not the country of Iraq that attacked us. That is all.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7968922 - 02/02/08 02:11 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

They were both arguing about one or two dozen. My point is that they are off by thousands, maybe millions.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7968933 - 02/02/08 02:14 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
zapp, The Al Queda organization was said to be in the low thousands before 9/11. Since we invaded Iraq, it has grown exponentially.




No it has not. Do you know what an exponent is? And I will continue to point out that those who supported them were complicit. That includes every financial backer and every Taliban supporter and a whole shitload of other assholes as well. Down syndrome females, however, are not included.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Redstorm]
    #7968945 - 02/02/08 02:17 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
I didn't say anything about Ron Paul. I'm not a Paul supporter but I still belief the war is not in my best interest and it nothing but a money pit. We need to put some pressure on Iraq to get their shit together. They need some ultimatums.




We're almost in agreement.

I was against the war from the beginning, but leaving tomorrow would be an absolute disaster.

We are there, like it or not. We should not be.

But there has to be some rational basis for withdrawing the troops...


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7968963 - 02/02/08 02:20 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Quote:

Redstorm said:
I didn't say anything about Ron Paul. I'm not a Paul supporter but I still belief the war is not in my best interest and it nothing but a money pit. We need to put some pressure on Iraq to get their shit together. They need some ultimatums.




We're almost in agreement.

I was against the war from the beginning, but leaving tomorrow would be an absolute disaster.

We are there, like it or not. We should not be.

But there has to be some rational basis for withdrawing the troops...




I wouldn't be opposed to leaving tomorrow, but it's not realistic. There needs to be some sorts of tangible goals or timelines, though.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7968995 - 02/02/08 02:26 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Yet more derailment. We are already there. Woulda, coulda, shoulda is for ANOTHER THREAD. From the newspaper reports, the bomb vests were strapped to retards and remotely detonated. Assume them correct. Answer the fucking question since it is the only question of any relevance.




Quit talking to yourself.

But if you asked me I would just go home were I belonged. Problem solved.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Icelander]
    #7969012 - 02/02/08 02:30 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Zzzap said:
I eagerly await the morally bankrupt and mentally vacant morons here who will no doubt explain that the people who did this are freedom fighters driven to such harsh means by the eeevil BUUUUUUUUSHitler and the genocidal foreign policy of every American administration ever.





I have just realized that you can take this quote and apply it readily to what America has done to Iraq, and the people who support said action.

The morally bankrupt and mentally vacant morons are the Zzzaps of the world. And the freedom fighters, well, they are the most powerful military force in history.

It holds much more truth.

It's easy to condemn without looking in the mirror.


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Edited by Minstrel (02/02/08 02:57 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Minstrel]
    #7969054 - 02/02/08 02:44 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I'm going to agree. It's such a cop out to say well who cares how we got there; now that we're there we can't let these folk push us around. Yet these are the same people that would most likely and instantly drop an atomic bomb on anyone with the nerve to come over here and fuck around in our country. What if someone determined that Bush was a "bad guy" and dangerous to their country. If they had the might to invade and control us I don't think anyone would complain about a little suicide bombing to defend our country.:tongue: I wouldn't if it was deemed necessary to secure our freedom.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (02/02/08 02:45 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Icelander]
    #7969081 - 02/02/08 02:52 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

It's not a cop out to not be interested in having yet another thread about how we never shoulda, woulda, coulda. This is a new thread, with a new question. Derail some Pub Super Bowl thread with this shit. Answer the question, "Should we surrender to people who strap bombs to retards and blow up other people simply going about their business?"

I know why this thread keeps getting derailed. Even the fucking kooks know I'm right, that we cannot afford to surrender.


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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7969104 - 02/02/08 02:59 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8QALM9G2&show_article=1

Search all over and you will find they are larger now, after we have been at war with them and spending mega billions, then they were before 9/11.

You'll also find that the organizers have been mostly hanging out in Pakistan all of this time, not Iraq.

Ron Paul has been arguing ever since they fled Afghanistan for Pakistan that we should have followed them into Pakistan, and finished them off there, instead of staying behind in Afghanistan to Nation Build, and then attacking Iraq next.

Paul is still asking people why we are sending Billions in aide to an unelected Military dictator harboring Al Queda Organizers, all the while we are destroying a country that had nothing to do with 9/11, and are about to bomb another that had nothing to do with it.

Paul is asking why our Military is not hunting them down in Pakistan.

Shit even my Iraqi neighbor says the IED bombers in Iraq are coming from Pakistan, not Iran.



Your post about islamists, strapping bombs to Iraqis in Iraq, to kill Iraqis, has what to do Al Queda who are organized in Pakistan?

That incident you cited is a job for the Iraqi local law enforcement.

For someone who abhors a nanny state, are you not the least bit miffed that Iraq hasn't gotten their shit together yet and are still leaning on us for local policing and monetary aide?

While on this highly demented subject, Paul is also asking why are we are sending more weapons aide to Israeli enemies in Saudi Arabia if we say we are dedicated to be helping the Israelis out?


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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7969131 - 02/02/08 03:06 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
It's not a cop out to not be interested in having yet another thread about how we never shoulda, woulda, coulda. This is a new thread, with a new question. Derail some Pub Super Bowl thread with this shit. Answer the question, "Should we surrender to people who strap bombs to retards and blow up other people simply going about their business?"

I know why this thread keeps getting derailed. Even the fucking kooks know I'm right, that we cannot afford to surrender.





Mr. Cain says that blowing peoples up is their businesses.

I love your rational for this thread. It's so deliciously neocon.
1. Post article which 'irrefutably' proves your position is justified while appealing to emotion and ignoring context.

2. Disregard refutations as being off-topic, and detractors as being 'kooks'. Congratulations, you is a winar!

now all you need is

3. ??????

4. PROFIT


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7969168 - 02/02/08 03:17 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8QALM9G2&show_article=1

Search all over and you will find they are larger now, after we have been at war with them and spending mega billions, then they were before 9/11.




First line from your link:

Quote:

U.S. intelligence analysts have concluded al-Qaida has rebuilt its operating capability to a level not seen since just before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, The Associated Press has learned.




This is not an "exponential" increase.
Quote:



You'll also find that the organizers have been mostly hanging out in Pakistan all of this time, not Iraq.




There is also a loosely affilliated group known as al Q in Iraq. They appear to be the people who strapped the bombs to the retards.
Quote:



Ron Paul has been arguing ever since they fled Afghanistan for Pakistan that we should have followed them into Pakistan, and finished them off there, instead of staying behind in Afghanistan to Nation Build, and then attacking Iraq next.




Whoa, I thought he was against everything. If we left Afghanistan they would have come back. It would have been astonishingly dangerous to invade Pakistan considering that their leader was actually quite helpful. Further, I do believe we just recently blew up one of the top douches.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080131/ap_on_re_mi_ea/al_qaida_afghanistan
Quote:


Paul is still asking people why we are sending Billions in aide to an unelected Military dictator harboring Al Queda Organizers, all the while we are destroying a country that had nothing to do with 9/11, and are about to bomb another that had nothing to do with it.




Pakistan is not harboring them. They don't control all of their territory and not all terrorists are al Q.
Quote:



Paul is asking why our Military is not hunting them down in Pakistan.

Shit even my Iraqi neighbor says the IED bombers in Iraq are coming from Pakistan, not Iran.




I don't think that is correct. I think that al Q in Iraq is still mostly Saudi nationals. Not Saudi government agents, citizens.
Quote:





Your post about islamists, strapping bombs to Iraqis in Iraq, to kill Iraqis, has what to do Al Queda who are organized in Pakistan?




Loosely affiliated group in Iraq that calls itself al Q in Iraq.
Quote:



That incident you cited is a job for the Iraqi local law enforcement.

For someone who abhors a nanny state, are you not the least bit miffed that Iraq hasn't gotten their shit together yet and are still leaning on us for local policing and monetary aide?




Police services are not nanny state.
Quote:



While on this highly demented subject, Paul is also asking why are we are sending more weapons aide to Israeli enemies in Saudi Arabia if we say we are dedicated to be helping the Israelis out?




Saudi Arabia has never actually attacked Israel and I doubt that they would have the nerve. Paul doesn't give a fuck about Israel. I don't give a fuck about Paul.


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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7969245 - 02/02/08 03:39 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

"Should we surrender to people who strap bombs to retards and blow up other people simply going about their business?"


I already answered this question. Can you read? Did you forget already? Or didn't you take time to notice before your got yourself all worked up and foamy.

Here, I'll help you old timer. :lol: But if you asked me I would just go home were I belonged. Problem solved.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (02/02/08 03:40 PM)


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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Icelander]
    #7969280 - 02/02/08 03:47 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I'll take that as a cleverly disguised "Yes", then.


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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7969308 - 02/02/08 03:56 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Funny, I can imagine insurgents in Iraq asking eachother if they really want to surrender to cowards who blow families up from 20,000 feet.

Yet, that statement doesn't quite grasp everything involved in the decision does it and is equally as stupid as yours. I do not see why anybody is even humoring your question.


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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: vintage_gonzo]
    #7969400 - 02/02/08 04:22 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

They're not. They are mostly ignoring it to get into utterly irrelevant nonsense. Just like you.


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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7969438 - 02/02/08 04:33 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

People are ignoring it because it is a stupid fucking question. Got it yet?


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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: vintage_gonzo]
    #7969445 - 02/02/08 04:36 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Nope, it's not. It is a very real question directly related to what they think we should do going ahead from here. Nothing you mentioned is a relevant response to "What do we do now?" and is thus masturbatory in nature. Keep touching yourself.


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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7969452 - 02/02/08 04:40 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Nope, it's not. It is a very real question directly related to what they think we should do going ahead from here. Nothing you mentioned is a relevant response to "What do we do now?" and is thus masturbatory in nature. Keep touching yourself.




Ever the neo-con way. Decide where you are going without understanding how you got there.


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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: vintage_gonzo]
    #7969461 - 02/02/08 04:43 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)



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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7969467 - 02/02/08 04:44 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Our government needs to make it clear that we will no prop up this government forever. Some sort of accountability from the Iraqis is necessary so they don't think they can suck on America's tit for the next 50 years and not do anything to help themselves.


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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Minstrel]
    #7969471 - 02/02/08 04:45 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Minstrel said:

Ever the neo-con way. Decide where you are going without understanding how you got there.




Somebody doesn't understand tense.


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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7969495 - 02/02/08 04:53 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

---


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 12:25 PM)


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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7969498 - 02/02/08 04:54 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

americans are wayyyy more evil than the martyr
even osama bin laden said how we nuked japan, and we nuked a completely untouched city, Nagasaki and Hiroshima, we had been fire bombing japan for months be4 the nuke, but we decided to nuke a city completely unscathed by american bombs
americans will easily kill millions of INNOCENT CIVILIANS and then when they kill our TROOPS, we are all like omg how can they do this by that means they are sooo evil
they dont have high tech ways of killing random people with their smart bombs, and those guided bombs kill so many innocent people
i think if i was in the same situation as the iraqis, i would react in the same manner


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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Coaster]
    #7969517 - 02/02/08 04:57 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Do you know what spell check is? Unscaved, mortars? What the fuck good are you?


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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7969537 - 02/02/08 05:01 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

No, it is a stupid non sequitur and you are ignorant for spouting it off and then acting like you said something ingenious. You never asked "what do we do now" you tried to equate responsibly leaving Iraq to surrendering to people who supposedly blow up retards. Don't you realize there are more issues at hand than just that? Do not be so dim. Yes that is horrible that those people would do something like that, but I don't ever remember it happening when Saddam was in power. Do you?


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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #7969538 - 02/02/08 05:01 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Funny, I didn't see either a "yes" or a "no" in that whole irrelevant diatribe. Thanks for playing and keep on touching yourself.

I have a "yes" from Icelander, a "no" from Die Commie, a "no" from Redstorm and basically total bullshit and obfuscation from everybody else.

Yes or no. I've read your and several other people's speeches. Now answer the fucking question.


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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7969568 - 02/02/08 05:07 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

i say yes
i would pull out
it was unconstitutional
it wasnt a threat to our national security
it wasnt in our best interests
we didnt benefit from it 1 bit


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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7969577 - 02/02/08 05:09 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Funny, I didn't see either a "yes" or a "no" in that whole irrelevant diatribe. Thanks for playing and keep on touching yourself.

I have a "yes" from Icelander, a "no" from Die Commie, a "no" from Redstorm and basically total bullshit and obfuscation from everybody else.

Yes or no. I've read your and several other people's speeches. Now answer the fucking question.




You are either with us, or against us. Yes, or no. Neo-cons love restricting the places where you can stand.

Sorry Zzzap, but you gotta face it. Your propaganda doesn't work on these shroomers. We don't fall for it.


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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Minstrel]
    #7969594 - 02/02/08 05:14 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

---


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 12:25 PM)


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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Coaster]
    #7969596 - 02/02/08 05:15 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Coaster said:
i say yes

Thank you, You are breath of fresh air in a veritable fog of bullshit. You're heinous but nonetheless man enough to take a stand
i would pull out
it was unconstitutional

No, it wasn't
it wasnt a threat to our national security
it wasnt in our best interests
we didnt benefit from it 1 bit

We disagree, but that has been hammered to oblivion in several hundred other threads




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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7969603 - 02/02/08 05:17 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Pick on the easy one zappa. :thumbup:


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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Minstrel]
    #7969606 - 02/02/08 05:18 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Minstrel said:


You are either with us, or against us. Yes, or no. Neo-cons love restricting the places where you can stand.




Well, no. The world makes you take stances and make choices. Should we stay or should we go?
Quote:



Sorry Zzzap, but you gotta face it. Your propaganda doesn't work on these shroomers. We don't fall for it.




There is no propaganda in a straight question. Answer it. Or waffle forever. You don't even have the guts to answer a question.


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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #7969617 - 02/02/08 05:20 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
In the neocon minds of zappaisgod, diecommie & luddite (& maybe one or two other people on the Shroomery), to not support U.S.-initiated wars is the equivalent to saying, "I support al-Qaeda." It is incomprehensible to their narrow-minded, simplistic worldview that one can oppose both the Bush administration, as well as Osama bin Laden. Remember, like their ideological champion said, "You're either with us or you're against us."




Yet another person who doesn't understand that this is a simple question. What do we do now? No woulda coulda shoulda. Pull out immediately or stay?


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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: vintage_gonzo]
    #7969620 - 02/02/08 05:21 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

vintage_gonzo said:
Pick on the easy one zappa. :thumbup:




They're all easy.


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7969718 - 02/02/08 05:45 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

---


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 12:26 PM)


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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7969810 - 02/02/08 06:04 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Leave NOW!! It'll be decades before we fully grasp the damage we have already done over there, to our economy, the national debt, to the strength and moral of our Military, standing in the eyes of others around the world, and all for NOTHING but an Al Queda that is larger and more organized now then before and Oil that is more then double the price it was before.

YES!! I really want to leave Iraq to the Iraqis already.


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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7970017 - 02/02/08 07:03 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Minstrel said:


You are either with us, or against us. Yes, or no. Neo-cons love restricting the places where you can stand.




Well, no. The world makes you take stances and make choices. Should we stay or should we go?
Quote:



Sorry Zzzap, but you gotta face it. Your propaganda doesn't work on these shroomers. We don't fall for it.




There is no propaganda in a straight question. Answer it. Or waffle forever. You don't even have the guts to answer a question.




Another Neocon natural: declaring detractors as cowards.

I will not answer your little question. It is a complex question, which presupposes that:

1. The act of disengaging in Iraq can only be described as surrender.

2. That an issue like this is the criteria by which we should judge your foriegn policy. Retards vs American lives, paper dollars, iraqi lives, future generations of iraqis.

It seems you have your head screwed on straight.

You are disgracing the service of your fighting men and women with this straw man story.

I honestly don't give a fuck if you think that Iraqis from blowing up Iraqis is your business. You've sown your seeds.


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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7970211 - 02/02/08 07:43 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Jiggy seems to be wrapped up in the number of people actually on the planes and think that was the sum total of people involved. There was an organization of thousands, maybe millions, who worked on it, donated to it, supported it with their governments and shamans.




Governments and shamans? Have you been listening to Ann Coulter again? Either way, congratulations on loosing all credibility. What next, communists under the stairs?


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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #7970228 - 02/02/08 07:46 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

What that he said isn't true?

Half the Saudi government donated money to those idiots to help them w/ their plot. And they were sent specifically by religious authorities.


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7970507 - 02/02/08 08:39 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
What that he said isn't true?

Half the Saudi government donated money to those idiots to help them w/ their plot.  And they were sent specifically by religious authorities.




Are you sure you want to help Zappa further face that he supports and trusts a government (ours) that supports, with military weapons aid and protection, a government that helps to fund Al Queda?

It's like you laid out the rope for him to trip over.

Note how zappa didn't mention which governments have been helping Al Queda.

Not that it needs to be highlighted to read the writing on the wall.

We have been borrowing money from China, to give to Musharif, to fund his Military, who has been giving safe haven to top Al Queda organizers in Pakistan, while the world is distracted with Iraq and Iran as being some threat to us.:crazy2:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7970845 - 02/02/08 09:47 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

EP and jiggy surrender. Finally. What governments, jiggy?


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7970859 - 02/02/08 09:52 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
EP and jiggy surrender. Finally. What governments, jiggy?




Surrender is your word that does not apply to Iraq. Iraq was never trying to force us into doing anything for them. Surrender regarding Iraq makes no sense. We forced their leader out. We bombed the piss out of them and killed 100,000-1,000,000 of their people. There is nothing for us to surrender too. there is a only a violent, costly and senseless attack on them for us to stop committing.

What governments about what are you asking what governments for?


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7971801 - 02/03/08 03:29 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

tactics...wow! where or whom did you learn this from hmm? :tongue:

better watch out for you in the next decade or so..


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7971902 - 02/03/08 07:07 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

jiggy writes:

Quote:

Surrender is your word that does not apply to Iraq.




On the contrary. It applies perfectly to Iraq.

The ones initiating the violence in Iraq these days have for a very long time been almost exclusively foreign operatives (Saudis, Syrians. Yemenis, etc.), and even many of the few remaining Iraqi-born ones have been members of a foreign organization -- Al Qaeda. Yes, every now and then a couple of al Sadr's lads act up a bit, but to all intents and purposes these days (last year or so) the remaining Iraqi violence is pretty much an Al Qaeda thing.

So yeah... leaving Iraq against the wishes of the constitutionally elected Iraqi government would certainly be surrendering to Al Qaeda.




Phred


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Phred]
    #7971921 - 02/03/08 07:16 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

> (it) would certainly be surrendering to Al Qaeda.

What is so wrong with losing? Why does it matter if Al Qaeda "wins" in Iraq?


(I'm not picking sides, but trying to understand the limits of the issue... searching for the worst case scenario, I suppose.)


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineCubie
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: afoaf]
    #7971962 - 02/03/08 07:37 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
they were retarded?





Arnt they all?


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Phred]
    #7972013 - 02/03/08 08:13 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The ones initiating the violence in Iraq these days have for a very long time been almost exclusively foreign operatives (Saudis, Syrians. Yemenis, etc.), and even many of the few remaining Iraqi-born ones have been members of a foreign organization -- Al Qaeda. Yes, every now and then a couple of al Sadr's lads act up a bit, but to all intents and purposes these days (last year or so) the remaining Iraqi violence is pretty much an Al Qaeda thing.




Source?

Quote:

So yeah... leaving Iraq against the wishes of the constitutionally elected Iraqi government would certainly be surrendering to Al Qaeda.




And what would staying against the wish of the people who make up this democracy be?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7972025 - 02/03/08 08:21 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Remote-controlled explosives strapped to two mentally retarded women detonated , killing at least 73 people








surrender? no

use the same tactics with Iraqi civilians? certainly

systematically exterminate all life in Iraq city by city? it's worked for
american government in the past, make sure the women and children are first, you
dont want little Houshmand to grow up and avenge daddy's death and we certainly
cant have the little girls breeding and producing more jr. terrorists


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #7972044 - 02/03/08 08:30 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Have you been smorking blobbigans again?


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InvisibleLuddite
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7972047 - 02/03/08 08:32 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Don't surrender!

Also, if we could get all the retarded muslims to blow themselves up away from other people then it could solve a lot of problems.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7972071 - 02/03/08 08:45 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Have you been smorking blobbigans again?




I always smork sumpin'

seriously, look at how sucsessful the military was against unarmed civilians at
Wounded Knee, the didnt do well against the armed 'terrorists' at Little Big
Horn but that's because all of those guys were grown ups with fighting in mind.

as long as our military shoots and kills everything in it's path the terrorists
dont stand a chance with suicide bomber because there wont be anyone left to do
it. I know the secrets to winning the wars, the government just needs to accept
that genocide is what america really wants, it's the reason Andrew Jackson is
proudly displayed on some american currency


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #7972111 - 02/03/08 09:07 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

OK OK, back to OTD with you. It was nice to have you walked around the yard here but it's time for medication and a little nappy. Maybe some nice jello. Bye now.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7972132 - 02/03/08 09:21 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

our military doesnt fight well against armed combatants, it's been proven time and
again, in viet nam and korea we lost our asses, here it is again, the only reason
we 'won' WW2 is because we started nuking civilian populations and see how well it
worked... if it's not broke, dont fix it


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7972147 - 02/03/08 09:28 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)



you're whipping them up into a frenzy Zap :grin:

We need to get Blackwater, Exxon, and Halliburton involved in this thread! (that would send them over the edge.:smirk:)


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


Edited by lonestar2004 (02/03/08 09:34 AM)


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7972169 - 02/03/08 09:40 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
What if someone is trying to kill your neighbor and he asks for your help, will you just say "No, we're okay over here."




In that case, the best thing to do would be to blow up your neighbor's house, then dance around in the yard singing about what a great hero you are and then make a lot of money rebuilding the blown up house.

Also, several of your poorer neighbors are being robbed, but who gives a shit about them.


--------------------
Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
(•_•)
<) )~  ANTIFA
/ \
\(•_•)
( (>    SUPER
/ \
(•_•)
<) )>    SOLDIERS
  / \


Edited by Baby_Hitler (02/03/08 09:43 AM)


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7972227 - 02/03/08 10:01 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Funny, I didn't see either a "yes" or a "no" in that whole irrelevant diatribe.  Thanks for playing and keep on touching yourself.

I have a "yes" from Icelander, a "no" from Die Commie, a "no" from Redstorm and basically total bullshit and obfuscation from everybody else.

Yes or no.  I've read your and several other people's speeches.  Now answer the fucking question.




The premise for your question wasn't intellectual, it was rhetoric. However, you were ripped a new hole in this thread and now you're just trying to save face, going around like an embarrassed kid pretending to tally yes' and nos as if they lead up to something.
You're as much an emotional infant as you are an intellectual one, and while you're deserving of pity, it doesn't seem as though you're getting any.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

vintage_gonzo said:
Pick on the easy one zappa. :thumbup:




They're all easy.



Yup, things are easy to ignore when you have fingers in your ear like a baby, while you whine about not getting an irrelevant yes or no from people whose views are pretty clear to begin with. But it'd be foolish to expect more from a boy who emphatically questions whether the Navy has recorded monitoring aboard their ships, doesn't think oil has anything to do with Russian political power, and wears woman's clothing.


Edited by Disco Cat (02/03/08 10:08 AM)


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7972246 - 02/03/08 10:08 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

He is gay.

He is jewish.

He is a douche.

and

Quote:

Disco Cat said: ZAP wears woman's clothing.





WOW!


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Phred]
    #7972348 - 02/03/08 10:40 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Phred,

Your last reply on surrender applying doesn't fit with any dictionary definition.

We do not own Iraq. No one has been using force to try and take something from us that is ours over there. Iraq is not our country to surrender anything of ours up too.

However, we forcefully took out their leader. Some have fought against us doing that. We won that mission anyway. We did remove a horrible dictator, even though it is not our job to do that. We did insure that he does not have, nor will be selling WPDs to bad people to be used against us.

Mission Accomplished was declared by our government years ago.

Now, we are just trying to deal with the new government to sign over oil rights in exchange for rebuilding their country and keeping a force there to tackle those opposed to their oil being taken away from them.

Sure, we can surrender up the goal of getting rights to that oil shifted over to Western Companies, and if we do that, we don't need to keep our Military there to protect it.

And if we surrender to the that goal, we have lost nothing, we didn't already have. Iraq, it's government, it's oil were never ours to loose to the insurgents.

Our Military being used to secure oil rights for Western companies is "wrong". Of course insurgents over there are fighting against us over there to keep us from doing that.

We are weakening our own economy and Military over this, when we could just continue trading with others who have oil while we work to get ourselves energy Independent.

Al Quedas goal, according the latest release from Al Jezeera, is to destroy our economy. They are winning at that goal for as long as we keep spending and borrowing money trying to get rights to that oil for Western companies. The quicker we stop spending everything we don't have to spend over seas, the quicker Al Queda looses in their Mission.

If we keep this up, and end up with a destroyed economy, damaged Military, and bankrupt, we will have to give up all of our bases over seas and our plan to modernize eastern nations, because we will have no money or Military left to do it with. What a perfect time for a new major attack on our soil then too just for pay back shitz and giggles.

Why not just stop the spending over seas, get our economy strong again, beef up our Military defence at home, work at getting energy independent, and shut down the majority of our bases overseas and quit trying to modernize countries whose citizens don't want to be like us or under our influence?

We have been the aggressor here trying to occupy and take from others what is not ours. Surrender does not leave us with a loss, but rather a HUGE gain from our current standing to be incurred if we do it ASAP.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Phred]
    #7972455 - 02/03/08 11:14 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

---


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 12:31 PM)


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7973422 - 02/03/08 02:34 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Your last reply on surrender applying doesn't fit with any dictionary definition.




It most certainly does.

Quote:

We do not own Iraq.




Neither do the 'splodeydopes the coalition troops are fighting.

Iraq is at present the main battlefield between medieval theocratic murderers (that would be Al Qaeda and their ilk) and democratic secular security providers (that would be the coalition troops and the security forces of the Iraqi government). Allowing Al Qaeda to force a withdrawal of coalition forces -- against the express wishes of the legitimate government of Iraq -- is of course a surrender. Don't be silly.

Quote:

No one has been using force to try and take something from us that is ours over there. Iraq is not our country to surrender anything of ours up too.




Do the countries of the coalition troops have the right to assist allies who request their aid? Yes or no.

Quote:

Now, we are just trying to deal with the new government to sign over oil rights in exchange for rebuilding their country and keeping a force there to tackle those opposed to their oil being taken away from them.




Jiggy, for one so prolific in her writings, you are remarkably uninformed. Those of us who actually follow the news are well aware that the Iraqi government has been almost from day one structuring a revenue-sharing plan to distribute oil revenues equitably to all parts of Iraq. We (those who follow the news) are certainly aware that the Iraq government has not "signed over" any oil rights, nor has any coalition member country government asked that they do so, nor does any coalition member country government expect them to do so.

There's no need for me to address your next several paragraphs, based as they are on your false assumption that "it's all about the oil".

Quote:

Why not just stop the spending over seas, get our economy strong again, beef up our Military defence at home, work at getting energy independent, and shut down the majority of our bases overseas and quit trying to modernize countries whose citizens don't want to be like us or under our influence?




There are arguments for this approach (and arguments against it, too) but that has nothing to do with the fact that letting Al Qaeda chase the coalition forces out of Iraq would be a surrender. You can attempt to argue that surrendering would lead on balance to more good things than not surrendering, but that is another discussion entirely.



Phred


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Redstorm]
    #7973822 - 02/03/08 03:45 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Quote:

The ones initiating the violence in Iraq these days have for a very long time been almost exclusively foreign operatives (Saudis, Syrians. Yemenis, etc.), and even many of the few remaining Iraqi-born ones have been members of a foreign organization -- Al Qaeda. Yes, every now and then a couple of al Sadr's lads act up a bit, but to all intents and purposes these days (last year or so) the remaining Iraqi violence is pretty much an Al Qaeda thing.




Source?

Quote:

So yeah... leaving Iraq against the wishes of the constitutionally elected Iraqi government would certainly be surrendering to Al Qaeda.




And what would staying against the wish of the people who make up this democracy be?




Still waiting, but I'm not expecting a real answer. Also, this question asked in the subject of this thread is a joke. It's about on par with "do you still beat your wife?"


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Redstorm]
    #7974053 - 02/03/08 04:36 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Still waiting, but I'm not expecting a real answer.




Ah, Red, Red... when did you lose your faith in me? You know I don't make unsupportable claims.

My own computer is on the fritz and will be for the next several weeks while I ship in a new part, so I don't have access to my archived bookmarks. If I did, I would have included a link to articles from the Washington Post, the Guardian, the New York Times and others with my original post. But since the news they report has been common knowledge for some time now, I thought I could avoid the hassle of Googling the info.

Here's what I found quickly, but there have been more recent articles in the MSM detailing how pretty much all other insurgent groups have almost given up the ghost. Al Qaeda in Iraq (or Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia, as the New york Times hilariously insists on calling it) has been the main malefactor for at least the last six months now, but until I get my own computer back (and its bookmarks) I'm not going to spend any time trying to winnow through the tens of thousands of hits Google returns for Al Qaeda iraq insurgency. Perhaps someone else can provide more links than these --


From http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/20/AR2008012002609_pf.html --

Quote:

Based on the Sinjar records, U.S. military officials in Iraq said they now think that nine out of 10 suicide bombers have been foreigners, compared with earlier estimates of 75 percent. Similarly, they assess that 90 percent of foreign fighters entering Iraq during the one-year period ending in August came via Syria, a greater proportion than previously believed.




http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2215798,00.html?gusrc=

Quote:

After the raid the number of suicide bombings in Iraq fell to 16 in October - half the number seen during the summer months and down from a peak of 59 in March. US military officials believe that 90% of such bombings are by foreigners.






Phred


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7974058 - 02/03/08 04:38 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I'll take that as a cleverly disguised "Yes", then.




Boy are you sharp.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #7974072 - 02/03/08 04:41 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
In the neocon minds of zappaisgod, diecommie & luddite (& maybe one or two other people on the Shroomery), to not support U.S.-initiated wars is the equivalent to saying, "I support al-Qaeda." It is incomprehensible to their narrow-minded, simplistic worldview that one can oppose both the Bush administration, as well as Osama bin Laden. Remember, like their ideological champion said, "You're either with us or you're against us."




Nicely put. And true enough for me.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Phred]
    #7974603 - 02/03/08 06:33 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Do the countries of the coalition troops have the right to assist allies who request their aid? Yes or no.




who were these allies when the fighting started, was our aid requested then?

being a coalition, is this fighting being done under the flag of the UN?


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InvisibleSlashOZ
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #7974759 - 02/03/08 07:09 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

surrender to the terrorists or surrender to the military industrial complex. choices....choices. i think i'll take the third option and choose peace.


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
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"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)


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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: SlashOZ]
    #7974906 - 02/03/08 07:49 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Zzzap seems to forget that it's not surrender if you've already declared victory, which America has! Don't you remember that whole stint on the nookular aircraft carrier? It's over! Mission accomplished! America prevails.

Your objectives were:
regime change: yep
install Amerikan style democracy: yep
destroy weapons of mass destruction: oops, but the point is, there are none there anymore now!

There you go! No need to surrender! You win! Now will you please go home!?



--------------------


Edited by Minstrel (02/03/08 07:53 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Minstrel]
    #7975136 - 02/03/08 08:31 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Minstrel said:


Now will you please go home!?






Are you an Iraqi?


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InvisibleMinstrel
Man of Science
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 1,974
Loc: Hogtown
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7975322 - 02/03/08 09:06 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Minstrel said:


Now will you please go home!?






Are you an Iraqi?




Does it matter?

Do only the Iraqis' opinion matter to you? How about the opinion of the American people?
Some 60-70% of Americans want to reduce presence in Iraq.

How about the opinion of your fighting men and women?
Ron Paul gets the most donations from the military than any other candidate.

You put the wishes of the Iraqis before these people?
You are a pitiful excuse for an American.


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Edited by Minstrel (02/03/08 09:08 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Minstrel]
    #7975374 - 02/03/08 09:14 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Minstrel said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Minstrel said:


Now will you please go home!?






Are you an Iraqi?




Does it matter?

Do only the Iraqis' opinion matter to you? How about the opinion of the American people?
Some 60-70% of Americans want to reduce presence in Iraq.




Strange wording there for someone advocating a pullout
Quote:



How about the opinion of your fighting men and women?
Ron Paul gets the most donations from the military than any other candidate.




I keep hearing this. I find it odd. Also irrelevant. The military polling seems to indicate they want to see to it the job gets done. Ron Paul is of no consequence. Ever.
Quote:



You put the wishes of the Iraqis before these people?
You are a pitiful excuse for an American.




So far you have done zero to indicate what those people's wishes are.
Just some dumb bullshit about pullbacks and Ron Paul (FTW). Oh yeah, thanks for the flame. Loser.


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Offlinegluke bastid
Stinky Bum
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 3,322
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7976126 - 02/04/08 12:10 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
It's not a cop out to not be interested in having yet another thread about how we never shoulda, woulda, coulda. This is a new thread, with a new question. Derail some Pub Super Bowl thread with this shit. Answer the question, "Should we surrender to people who strap bombs to retards and blow up other people simply going about their business?"




I don't consider withdrawal from Iraq a "surrender." But yes. We should admit failure. And withdraw. Why? Because "victory" is impossible. Democracy has never come to a country in the backpocket of an invading army. To believe that we can make Iraq "safe for democracy" is a lovely fairy tale. But it is a lie.

We can stay in Iraq for 100 years and it will not be any different. There will be no progress. As there has been no progress now. I don't want to abandon the mess there. But we don't have the tools we need to clean it up. Our presence is not encouraging the people who live there to resist Al-Qaeda. The children are learning nothing about democracy, only what it means to grow up in a war torn state. I see no evidence to suggest that we can help the Iraqi people by having our soldiers there. If you do, let me know.


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:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: gluke bastid]
    #7976800 - 02/04/08 08:13 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

gluke writes:

Quote:

Because "victory" is impossible.




Not if one defines victory the way Bush has from the very beginning -- support the fledgling Iraqi state until such time as its security forces are capable of handling the 'splodeydopes on their own. Petraeus himself has said he foresees a significant reduction of troops over the next twelve months as the Iraqi security forces improve. There are already several Iraqi provinces where all security operations are handled by Iraqi forces alone.

Quote:

Democracy has never come to a country in the backpocket of an invading army.




I'm a little unclear on the form of government you believe Japan had in 1941. Do you claim it was a democracy?

Quote:

We can stay in Iraq for 100 years and it will not be any different. There will be no progress. As there has been no progress now.




There has been progress. Significant progress. Both on the political front (reconciliation with the Iraqi ex-Ba'athists -- one of Congress's key benchmarks) and certainly dramatic progress on the reduction of violence.

Quote:

Our presence is not encouraging the people who live there to resist Al-Qaeda.




On the contrary. Google "Anbar awakening" for one, or read just about any milblog, or go to the websites of embedded reporters such as Michael Yon or Bill Roggio or Michael J. Totten. Iraqis -- from the tribal sheikhs to little kids -- are co-operating with the security forces against Al Qaeda. They rat them out at every opportunity.





Phred


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