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InvisibleSlashOZ
:D
Male


Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 3,557
Loc: Following the water cycle
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #7974759 - 02/03/08 07:09 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

surrender to the terrorists or surrender to the military industrial complex. choices....choices. i think i'll take the third option and choose peace.


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"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)

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InvisibleMinstrel
Man of Science
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 1,974
Loc: Hogtown
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: SlashOZ]
    #7974906 - 02/03/08 07:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Zzzap seems to forget that it's not surrender if you've already declared victory, which America has! Don't you remember that whole stint on the nookular aircraft carrier? It's over! Mission accomplished! America prevails.

Your objectives were:
regime change: yep
install Amerikan style democracy: yep
destroy weapons of mass destruction: oops, but the point is, there are none there anymore now!

There you go! No need to surrender! You win! Now will you please go home!?



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Edited by Minstrel (02/03/08 07:53 PM)

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Minstrel]
    #7975136 - 02/03/08 08:31 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Minstrel said:


Now will you please go home!?






Are you an Iraqi?


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InvisibleMinstrel
Man of Science
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 1,974
Loc: Hogtown
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7975322 - 02/03/08 09:06 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Minstrel said:


Now will you please go home!?






Are you an Iraqi?




Does it matter?

Do only the Iraqis' opinion matter to you? How about the opinion of the American people?
Some 60-70% of Americans want to reduce presence in Iraq.

How about the opinion of your fighting men and women?
Ron Paul gets the most donations from the military than any other candidate.

You put the wishes of the Iraqis before these people?
You are a pitiful excuse for an American.


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Edited by Minstrel (02/03/08 09:08 PM)

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Minstrel]
    #7975374 - 02/03/08 09:14 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Minstrel said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Minstrel said:


Now will you please go home!?






Are you an Iraqi?




Does it matter?

Do only the Iraqis' opinion matter to you? How about the opinion of the American people?
Some 60-70% of Americans want to reduce presence in Iraq.




Strange wording there for someone advocating a pullout
Quote:



How about the opinion of your fighting men and women?
Ron Paul gets the most donations from the military than any other candidate.




I keep hearing this. I find it odd. Also irrelevant. The military polling seems to indicate they want to see to it the job gets done. Ron Paul is of no consequence. Ever.
Quote:



You put the wishes of the Iraqis before these people?
You are a pitiful excuse for an American.




So far you have done zero to indicate what those people's wishes are.
Just some dumb bullshit about pullbacks and Ron Paul (FTW). Oh yeah, thanks for the flame. Loser.


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Offlinegluke bastid
Stinky Bum
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 3,322
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7976126 - 02/04/08 12:10 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
It's not a cop out to not be interested in having yet another thread about how we never shoulda, woulda, coulda. This is a new thread, with a new question. Derail some Pub Super Bowl thread with this shit. Answer the question, "Should we surrender to people who strap bombs to retards and blow up other people simply going about their business?"




I don't consider withdrawal from Iraq a "surrender." But yes. We should admit failure. And withdraw. Why? Because "victory" is impossible. Democracy has never come to a country in the backpocket of an invading army. To believe that we can make Iraq "safe for democracy" is a lovely fairy tale. But it is a lie.

We can stay in Iraq for 100 years and it will not be any different. There will be no progress. As there has been no progress now. I don't want to abandon the mess there. But we don't have the tools we need to clean it up. Our presence is not encouraging the people who live there to resist Al-Qaeda. The children are learning nothing about democracy, only what it means to grow up in a war torn state. I see no evidence to suggest that we can help the Iraqi people by having our soldiers there. If you do, let me know.


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:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine

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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: gluke bastid]
    #7976800 - 02/04/08 08:13 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

gluke writes:

Quote:

Because "victory" is impossible.




Not if one defines victory the way Bush has from the very beginning -- support the fledgling Iraqi state until such time as its security forces are capable of handling the 'splodeydopes on their own. Petraeus himself has said he foresees a significant reduction of troops over the next twelve months as the Iraqi security forces improve. There are already several Iraqi provinces where all security operations are handled by Iraqi forces alone.

Quote:

Democracy has never come to a country in the backpocket of an invading army.




I'm a little unclear on the form of government you believe Japan had in 1941. Do you claim it was a democracy?

Quote:

We can stay in Iraq for 100 years and it will not be any different. There will be no progress. As there has been no progress now.




There has been progress. Significant progress. Both on the political front (reconciliation with the Iraqi ex-Ba'athists -- one of Congress's key benchmarks) and certainly dramatic progress on the reduction of violence.

Quote:

Our presence is not encouraging the people who live there to resist Al-Qaeda.




On the contrary. Google "Anbar awakening" for one, or read just about any milblog, or go to the websites of embedded reporters such as Michael Yon or Bill Roggio or Michael J. Totten. Iraqis -- from the tribal sheikhs to little kids -- are co-operating with the security forces against Al Qaeda. They rat them out at every opportunity.





Phred


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