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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Penguarky Tunguin]
    #7968600 - 02/02/08 12:54 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

So he has no evidence, just his own intuition?

Man, if only I could say whatever I wanted and have people believe it...


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Phred]
    #7968608 - 02/02/08 12:58 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Phred,

The numbers were aproximate that if changed to yours, being so close, the basic points still remain in tact. You further helped to show that the risk of death by an Islamic terrorist in America is so low, it barely measures on the scale compared to others we face here.


And be it 19, 18, 17, or 16, same insignificant difference. Since when do 19 crazy people mostly from Saudi Arabia make up the Country of Iraq, or any country for that matter?

I don't know about you but this topic was never funny to me. Crazy insane mad sort of "funny" it's chalk full of. Death by murder no matter who is doing the killing is never funny.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Edited by gettinjiggywithit (02/02/08 01:00 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7968661 - 02/02/08 01:08 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

which came from DieCommie, who said, "Never surrender." That's my answer, too.


:rofl2: Who's attacking us? If they were over here killing us for our gold and resources then I would be fighting with everything I had (and all would be fair then wouldn't you say my boy?). But lets say I go over my neighbors fence and start taking his firewood. Do I really have a right/moral high ground to fight him and declare that when he fights back that I should "never surrender".

Not too rational IMO unless your goal is to steal and call it something else.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (02/02/08 01:09 PM)


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Icelander]
    #7968709 - 02/02/08 01:18 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

What if someone is trying to kill your neighbor and he asks for your help, will you just say "No, we're okay over here."


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7968726 - 02/02/08 01:23 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Well it helps to determine who really is at fault before I enter into someone else's defense. We seem (as a military power) to ignore most who ask for our help that don't have resources that we deem valuable. That should tell you something about what kind of "friends" we make.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7968731 - 02/02/08 01:24 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Is it another neighbour who is trying to kill them, or is the neighbour trying to kill theirself? Or is the neighbour trying to kill the neighbour who came over to help by killing the neighbour after the neighbour called for help?


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7968739 - 02/02/08 01:25 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Remind me not to move to your neighborhood.

Christ...


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Registered: 05/29/06
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Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7968753 - 02/02/08 01:28 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Let me guess, you think the same group blew up the WTC?




How is that a relevant question? The fact remains there is no definitive answer as to who committed 9/11 nor the many, many very huge casualty attacks in iraq. The govt failed to prove its case beyond the shadow of a doubt (given the massive holes in the story). If you can reconcile with the huge discrepancies and coincidences in the official story and come to the conclusion it is correct that is fine. Just remember that doesn't make it fact that you believe that, it's merely your opinion.

Anyhow, the point is the associated press citing anonymous iraqi officials is not a judge, jury and executioner. There were british servicemen in fallujah, iraq caught in the midst of committing a terrorist attack. They were caught by iraq police and jailed when american special ops came, busted them out and "freed" them. Right after that we fucked that city up with everything we had.

Do not disregard factual evidence out of some loyalty or patriotism to your country. The leaders of your armed forces and political parties are not "america". Being a true patriot means questioning your leaders at every turn and not letting them commit acts at home or abroad that casts your country in a bad light.


--------------------
"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7968763 - 02/02/08 01:31 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Yet more derailment. We are already there. Woulda, coulda, shoulda is for ANOTHER THREAD. From the newspaper reports, the bomb vests were strapped to retards and remotely detonated. Assume them correct. Answer the fucking question since it is the only question of any relevance.


--------------------


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7968770 - 02/02/08 01:34 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
So he has no evidence, just his own intuition?

Man, if only I could say whatever I wanted and have people believe it...




Yes, I am a she, and Phreds numbers were off as well and exacts were not relevant to my posts. If you want to split hairs and have fact checks here you go

Phred said 2800 Americans died in the Sept 11 attacks.

This wiki site says at least 2,985 did.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_people_died_in_the_September_11_2001_attacks

Phred said there were 19 Hijackers.

This wiki site says 7 or 8 are still alive. They couldn't have been hijacking those planes if they are still alive. The number was not 19. It was closer to 11 or 12.

http://911review.org/Wiki/HijackersAliveAndWell.shtml

Phred said 4,000 U.S. Soldiers were killed in Iraq.

This site says 3,865 were and 28,773 have been wounded. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_casualties.htm

Well, it was only 3,865 brothers, husbands, wives, sisters, daughters, mothers, fathers, and friends of Americans that were killed serving in Iraq so far, not 5,000. That difference corrected means what difference? We still lost more of our soldiers responding to the deaths of the Hijack victims, then those killed by the hijackers.


Justify the death to death ratios for me.

11-19 non U.S. citizens killed 2,985 Americans.

The U.S. responded by killing anywhere from 100,000- 1,000,000 million Iraqis, and getting 3,895 more of our own soldiers killed.

None of this makes rational sense to me to have even started let alone continue on with, even when both Phreds and my numbers are corrected with evidential links down to the single digits.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: DieCommie]
    #7968810 - 02/02/08 01:44 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

ARE YOU WILLING TO SURRENDER TO THESE PEOPLE WHO STRAP BOMBS TO RETARDS?


NO!  :thumbup: 

The global jihad is a real threat to classical civilization.  The people on this thread, for the most part, dont see it.  They sit at home warm and comfortable thinking they are insulated from it.  But the jihad rages on in nearly every continent.  Ignoring it and hiding from it wont make it go away.




Exactly. Supporting the war is a lot easier when you're sitting in America and the biggest thing you have to worry about is the housing market falling.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Redstorm]
    #7968864 - 02/02/08 01:56 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

As is not supporting it when you know that there are adults who will do the job for you whether you realize you need it or not. Like Ron Paul votes in Congress.

Jiggy seems to be wrapped up in the number of people actually on the planes and think that was the sum total of people involved. There was an organization of thousands, maybe millions, who worked on it, donated to it, supported it with their governments and shamans. Many, many are now dead and will no longer do that. Let us discourage those left. Surely they will run out of retards. Unless they start recruiting at a Ron Paul gathering. That group seems to have a limitless number. Too bad they can't figure out voting machines.


--------------------


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7968897 - 02/02/08 02:06 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I didn't say anything about Ron Paul. I'm not a Paul supporter but I still belief the war is not in my best interest and it nothing but a money pit. We need to put some pressure on Iraq to get their shit together. They need some ultimatums.

Also, there is a difference between the ignorant comforts of those who support the war versus those who don't. Someone who feels strongly in favor of the war can get actively involved in it. How much can someone who does not support the war do anything to further their cause? Fly to Iraq and begin kidnapping soldiers back tot he US? War supporters can put up or shut up, but war protesters can't.


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InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7968904 - 02/02/08 02:08 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

>>Jiggy seems to be wrapped up in the number of people actually on the planes and think that was the sum total of people involved. There was an organization of thousands, maybe millions, who worked on it, donated to it, supported it with their governments and shamans


Jiggy actually made the point that the specific numbers don't matter, referred to it as hair splitting, but was pointing out that while Phred made a deal of her #'s being off, his were also off.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7968913 - 02/02/08 02:10 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

zapp, The Al Queda organization was said to be in the low thousands before 9/11. Since we invaded Iraq, it has grown exponentially.

You are trying to make it sound like there were far more, then just a few thousand out of a population of 6 Billion people, and that we have since reduced their numbers.

Wrong you are.

My point about emphasizing the hijackers numbers and that most of them were Saudis, is to remind everyone that it was not the country of Iraq that attacked us. That is all.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7968922 - 02/02/08 02:11 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

They were both arguing about one or two dozen. My point is that they are off by thousands, maybe millions.


--------------------


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7968933 - 02/02/08 02:14 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
zapp, The Al Queda organization was said to be in the low thousands before 9/11. Since we invaded Iraq, it has grown exponentially.




No it has not. Do you know what an exponent is? And I will continue to point out that those who supported them were complicit. That includes every financial backer and every Taliban supporter and a whole shitload of other assholes as well. Down syndrome females, however, are not included.


--------------------


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Redstorm]
    #7968945 - 02/02/08 02:17 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
I didn't say anything about Ron Paul. I'm not a Paul supporter but I still belief the war is not in my best interest and it nothing but a money pit. We need to put some pressure on Iraq to get their shit together. They need some ultimatums.




We're almost in agreement.

I was against the war from the beginning, but leaving tomorrow would be an absolute disaster.

We are there, like it or not. We should not be.

But there has to be some rational basis for withdrawing the troops...


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7968963 - 02/02/08 02:20 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Quote:

Redstorm said:
I didn't say anything about Ron Paul. I'm not a Paul supporter but I still belief the war is not in my best interest and it nothing but a money pit. We need to put some pressure on Iraq to get their shit together. They need some ultimatums.




We're almost in agreement.

I was against the war from the beginning, but leaving tomorrow would be an absolute disaster.

We are there, like it or not. We should not be.

But there has to be some rational basis for withdrawing the troops...




I wouldn't be opposed to leaving tomorrow, but it's not realistic. There needs to be some sorts of tangible goals or timelines, though.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Do you really want to surrender to this? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7968995 - 02/02/08 02:26 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Yet more derailment. We are already there. Woulda, coulda, shoulda is for ANOTHER THREAD. From the newspaper reports, the bomb vests were strapped to retards and remotely detonated. Assume them correct. Answer the fucking question since it is the only question of any relevance.




Quit talking to yourself.

But if you asked me I would just go home were I belonged. Problem solved.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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