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InvisibleJohn NadaDiscord
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Re: Donate Today For Freedom! [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7976903 - 02/04/08 08:55 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

How is that?


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InvisibleStein
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Re: Donate Today For Freedom! [Re: John Nada]
    #7976943 - 02/04/08 09:07 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Just because someone uses the word 'nigger' does not mean they are racist.

So, are you saying that every nigger that uses the word nigger is racist?

Come on man, think a little. I don't think fireworks used the word in a literal sense to demean anyone.


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InvisibleJohn NadaDiscord
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Re: Donate Today For Freedom! [Re: Stein]
    #7976983 - 02/04/08 09:20 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Come on, Stein. After posting here for a long time I know better than that. You know as well as I.
What I think is that most people who use the word "nigger" repeatedly in reference to black people, are racist and feel blacks are inferior, obviously. Especially when they say things like 'You can't teach them niggers" "Niggers are always doing shit like that, soulless monkies" ETC,ETC,ETC. It goes on and on and on

If you went to a primarily black website, and there were 1,000s and 1000's of posts, 100's made everyday where they endlessly slandered "honkies" and repeatedly expressed how they felt whites were inferior, what would you think they mean?


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InvisibleCowgold
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Re: Donate Today For Freedom! [Re: John Nada]
    #7977320 - 02/04/08 11:13 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

You'd think after getting the whip for a hundred years or so would give you people thick skin.  :snowman:



Racism is not a problem in this country.  Hell, we have a black dude that has a serious chance of becoming president.  If anything we're overly sensitive. 

The race card is pulled way too much, imo.  It's pretty obvious if someone makes a truely racist statement.  It's filled with hate.  To me, what makes most racial comments funny is how sensitivity blinds people to the obvious humor.  Most of the comments are generalizations that are ridiculous.  "Black people watermelon and chicken."  Watermelon and chicken are awesome, I don't see what's so embarrassing.


Edited by Cowgold (02/04/08 11:22 AM)


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InvisibleJohn NadaDiscord
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Re: Donate Today For Freedom! [Re: Cowgold]
    #7977438 - 02/04/08 11:50 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Barack Obama is half black. But I don't see how a black guy running for president would mean the country is oversensitive, regardless. But anyway hell I mean he's only the first one so it's not like just cause there's a black guy running for president that racism isn't a problem, haha

"you people" ?? I'm not black. People online tend to think you're black if you don't agree with racist sentiment or say something about it. That's always a trip to me

But anyway, I really just need to quit arguing about racism. Most people of most races are pretty fucking racist, and it's a futile effort. Most people in general are simple minded pieces of shit. Whether white or black, or whatever else.

Fuck Ron Paul though, haha


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Offlinewyldeman007
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Re: Donate Today For Freedom! [Re: John Nada]
    #7978120 - 02/04/08 03:32 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Words are words man, intentions and actions are the only merit one can judge by.


--------------------

"We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here." - Richard Dawkins


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Donate Today For Freedom! [Re: John Nada]
    #7978911 - 02/04/08 05:55 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Hey Paradis.

Long time since I've seen you around these parts.


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Re: Donate Today For Freedom! [Re: Redstorm]
    #7978917 - 02/04/08 05:55 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Can someone please unsticky this?


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: Donate Today For Freedom! [Re: spud]
    #7979442 - 02/04/08 07:29 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

What about his economic policies. Why do you think that a libertarian economic policy is good for America? Do you realize that this economic system has already been tried? How much of a free market guy is he. Meaning does he think we should help out the poor with a standard work week, minimum wage, child labor laws, etc... I know he is against welfare, does he have a plan to get poor people money or is his and your stance, 'fuck em'? How much power do you really want in the hands of corporations. Answer this honestly, do you see the poor of America as being better or worse off if Ron Paul gets elected. I realize he cant enact all the changes he wants to as that would have to come from the legislative branch, but say he got his way on every account, how would the poor fare?


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OfflinePinheadX
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Re: Donate Today For Freedom! [Re: TheCow]
    #7979858 - 02/04/08 08:41 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

well, if by poor you mean those who don't work and are able-bodied, then yeah... I say (and I don't know what Ron Paul's plan on welfare is, but...) fuck 'em. You don't work, you don't eat.

If you get all the bullshit out of the way, all the taxes, all the welfare to the illegal immigrants, all the restrictions and programs that make it more attractive for those on welfare to stay on welfare, you'll have people who are still poor at the present time, but at least able to improve their situation and who will be better off in the long run because they won't be dependent on the government or anyone else for their own livelihood.

Not to mention, he's only talking about doing this on a federal level. States can still have welfare programs if they so choose (and the voters and politicians in those states will most likely see to that), and all these "jobs that Americans won't do" will be available if you only give those jobs to low income Americans instead of below minimum wage under the table paid illegals.

If you watch the videos on the MTV thingy earlier in the thread, he says the first place you start cutting funding is not at home, but in foreign wars and occupation. This leads me to believe that he is not interested in cutting people off all at once, but scaling back and limiting eligibility of those on welfare now, so that they can end their dependence on it. Replace the government dole with assistance from local charities which should have more money due to the populace having more money to donate due to no tax burden, and you really have no change in assistance for those who really need the help.


--------------------
If you want to find psilocybin in species that are not yet known to be psychoactive, you should do chemical tests. That way you won't get sick and die all the time.
- Alan Rockefeller

Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
- Philip K. Dick


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: Donate Today For Freedom! [Re: PinheadX]
    #7979907 - 02/04/08 08:48 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Seems like you are dodging the question though really.  I just said poor people, I have friends who come from backgrounds where they were extremely poor.  Parents worked shitty jobs and had no money after expenses.  Things like food stamps, welfare, those things actually do make a difference to some people.  So how about those people?  Still just fuck em?  I mean thats alright by me if thats your opinion, but its a hard sell to the American population.  It just strikes me that his economic policies are great if you have money.  As for charities taking place of welfare, :rofl2:


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OfflinePinheadX
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Re: Donate Today For Freedom! [Re: TheCow]
    #7979966 - 02/04/08 08:58 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

no, if they are working, they won't be paying taxes and suffering from inflation, as the dollar will be backed by the gold standard once again. It's simple economics. More money in your pocket is more money for you to spend on necessities.

and as far as charities taking the place of welfare... yeah. How do you think disabled people got by in years before welfare and disability?


--------------------
If you want to find psilocybin in species that are not yet known to be psychoactive, you should do chemical tests. That way you won't get sick and die all the time.
- Alan Rockefeller

Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
- Philip K. Dick


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Donate Today For Freedom! [Re: TheCow]
    #7981143 - 02/05/08 12:32 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

TheCow said:
What about his economic policies.  Why do you think that a libertarian economic policy is good for America?  Do you realize that this economic system has already been tried?




When was it tried? I'm not too familiar with what a libertarian economic policy is, but I am familiar with a few ideas that he has thrown out there regarding the economy. Essentially, I think some of the changes he would seek regarding the money itself is to force through changes that would make the Federal Reserve more transparent, and to be held more accountable to Congress. He's also proposed the idea of allowing competing currencies to be allowed, so that people who want to use money that has value associated with it would be free to do so. He definitely stands agansit the continuous printing of more money. Of course, he asserts that we should only have gold/silver as legal currency. I'm not certain how practical this is due to the size of the economy, but it would seem that introducing competing currencies would be a first step. 

It seems to me that a lot of his ideas about a free marketplace make sense. I know he's been quoted as saying don't dismiss capitalism, because we haven't had it. :lol: One of the more recent things I've heard him say was regarding our dependence on fossil fuels. We use our military to try to keep the price low, instead of using the natural forces of a free market to find incentive in innovating new technology and alternative sources of energy - let the price naturally rise. Of course, the Iraqi War has played the largest role in tripling the price of oil, simply due to how much we consume in fighting the war. That certainly doesn't help the environment. :shrug:

The most crucial aspect of his economic policies, though, is to stop harming the economy by taking money out of it. Most of the spending the federal government does is completely unnecessary. We realistically don't even need to pay a federal income tax if we made some simple cuts in federal spending, mostly overseas, and the federal government could still function at a level it did ten years ago. The economy seemed fine then, in fact, I believe the deficit actually went down underneath Clinton, probably due to the fact that we weren't fighting huge wars....

The most ridiculous thing about our situation today is the federal government's "solution" to the economy: welfare checks! I still can't conclude if these people are just so conditioned to thinking that the federal government can actually help the economy by sucking up its wealth and then distributing a little bit of it back and telling people to spend, creating billions of more deficit spending, or if they are intentionally seeking to destroy the dollar and make the middle class dependent upon it and its welfare checks....

The federal government itself is the greatest tax on the economy, and to think that the federal government can save the economy by doing anything but slashing itself away is delusional. Right now the federal government is malignant, and it is going to spend, spend, spend, print, print, print, and borrow, borrow, borrow as though it can sustain this.

His economic policy is the greatest one that is being run on right now. I think it is a safe statement to make that, if anyone is truly concerned about the economic direction this country is headed into right now, the one issue that they should vote on is whether or not their candidate will cut federal spending. McCain loves to say that he will, but the only area that a President can really cut federal spending is overseas, which is the least painful way to cut spending for Americans themselves. If you went all out, you could cut enough money to eliminate the federal income tax itself, simply by cutting our overseas expenditures. The fringe benefits from doing so for our country, as well, will all be welcomed - greater national defense, secure borders, less incentive for extremists in the Middle East to attack us here at home, the simple fact that our troops are home, etc.

Quote:


How much of a free market guy is he.  Meaning does he think we should help out the poor with a standard work week, minimum wage, child labor laws, etc...




I've never heard any of his positions on these things, probably because they aren't on the agenda. I don't think any politician would seek to eliminate child labor laws, even if they did want them removed. :smirk:

I think the biggest question regarding his stance on these types of things is the role the federal government plays. The beautiful thing is that the federal government doesn't really have to play a role in most anything. We have fifty states who have different people who wish to be represented in different ways. The most beautiful experiment in freedom would be to restore the federal government to a Constitutional-sized level, taking care of national defense and interstate commerce and whatnot, and simply letting each state be.

What this would do, of course, is put the power of the government back into the hands of the people, in a much more empowering way. The people could choose how they wished to be represented. If someone simply did not like the way they were being governed, they could either work together to change things in their own state or move to a different state. States with repressive policies would suffer, as states would be in competition with each other. Clearly some regulation by the government is necessary, to protect the interests of people from corporations. Putting the center of power back into state government would give the people the means to protect their interests from corporations. Right now we have a federal government that is not really held accountable to the people and is in collusion with huge corporate interests. The further the center of power is from the hands of the people, the more tyranny naturally exists... and we have a natural movement even further towards world government. Its insane. :nut:

Quote:


  I know he is against welfare, does he have a plan to get poor people money or is his and your stance, 'fuck em'?




His stance is that you cannot really attack most of our domestic spending, even if a lot of it is Unconstitutional, because there are people who are dependent upon it, and because we've subsidized and taught this way for so long. If he actually did get elected, you wouldn't see him kick people to the curb. What you would see, of course, is to cut the foreign spending, since we can't afford to subsidize the rest of the world and ourselves as well.

Its easy to hear a one line "Ron Paul is agansit welfare" and think that his stance is to simply eliminate Social Security or welfare, but he always talks about transitions. What you do, with Social Security for example, is work the people who are dependent on this system through it, while giving new people the opportunity to never get tied into that system. Of course, as he has said, the first thing would have been to never spend Social Security money for anything but Social Security, pointing out that he never voted to do so.

Quote:


  How much power do you really want in the hands of corporations.




Well, we should ask ourselves that question, regarding how much power they already have. Look towards Washington for your answer. Washington is nothing but a nozzle from which billions of dollars spews forth, and then you just look to see who is standing there as it happens. The corporations already have far more power over the American people than most realize. We essentially have corporatism now, the control of the state by large interest groups.

Restricting and limiting the federal government and its spending, Ron Paul's comprehensive platform, would hurt large corporations most and benefit the American people and small businesses more. Anyone who thinks we aren't getting fucked in Washington by the corporations and the government isn't paying attention.

Quote:


  Answer this honestly, do you see the poor of America as being better or worse off if Ron Paul gets elected.




Better, because the economic prosperity of this country would thrive as the federal government wouldn't be able to harm the economy to the extent it does now, through taxation and bowing to the interets of huge conglomerates that benefit from government regulation that stifles competition. I see more job opportunities for the poor that are willing or capable of working. The amazing thing is that the poor in this country seemed to get along before the federal government became this huge state.

Quote:


I realize he cant enact all the changes he wants to as that would have to come from the legislative branch, but say he got his way on every account, how would the poor fare?




Well, the legislative branch wouldn't be the only limiting factor on his enacting all of the change he would want to see, or, that is, different changes would be enacted over different time frames. Some things could happen near immediately, such as bringing troops home from around the planet, whereas he could only lay the foundation for eliminating some domestic spending. It isn't as though he is seeking to make underprivledged Americans suffer.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: Donate Today For Freedom! [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7981167 - 02/05/08 12:39 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

:yawn:

Are you gonna be quiet after Super Tuesday when Ron wins absolutely nothing?


--------------------
Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

LAGM2024


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Donate Today For Freedom! [Re: PinheadX]
    #7981201 - 02/05/08 12:49 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

PinheadX said:
Not to mention, he's only talking about doing this on a federal level. States can still have welfare programs if they so choose (and the voters and politicians in those states will most likely see to that)




This is the beauty of giving power back to the states. :smile: Some people who don't understand what it actually means simply think its a candidate's way of avoiding taking a stance on a tough issue, but it isn't the case. When you get the federal government, with its taxes, out of the way, the states are inherently more capable of taking care of their own people. The states themselves can decide how much money they wish to tax and how to spend it, and the whole process will be a representation of the people, as all of the decisions are occuring on an accessible level to them. Poverty is a local issue, not all poverty is the same, and a state government will be much more capable of identifying the true source of the problem and an effective course of action to take. If the people in the state said "fuck the poor", they would have to live with the consequences of saying so, either from having homeless people on their sidewalks, higher crime rates, etc., and they would have more incentive to seek effective solutions (more job opportunities, transitional programs that help people get on their feet, etc.).

The more local the government is, the better all of reality will be. Higher levels of government only exist to protect the rights of individuals, to ensure that one locality is not imposing upon the rights of others. The Consitution identifies individuals as sovereign beings.

A lot of people don't realize that freedom exists on one end of a spectrum, tyranny on another. Freedom <-----> Tyranny. We're either heading towards one or the other, and we can't have it both ways. Its either the individual or the state, and one gains more rights as one loses. Any politican who gains personal power from the state and not the people is only going to lead this country further along towards tyranny. Anyone watching who the top candidates are on each side should be noticing that the parties are merging into one. This isn't a good thing.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Donate Today For Freedom! [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #7981208 - 02/05/08 12:51 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
:yawn:

Are you gonna be quiet after Super Tuesday when Ron wins absolutely nothing?




No I'm not; this is a discussion of ideas, and is not a discussion of Ron Paul's political chances of success. If you're so tired of it, go back to sleep and see where it leads.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineZinglons Acolyte
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Re: Donate Today For Freedom! [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7981693 - 02/05/08 08:14 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Take off every 'ZIG'!!
You know what you doing.
Move 'ZIG'.
For great justice!


--------------------
And they wandered off.. nine ways till bedfast.
-----
"And lets pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space 'cause theres bugger-all down here on earth!"  -Monty Python's "The Universe Song" from The Meaning of Life
"In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely considered as a bad move."  -Douglas Adams "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"
"If the words 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." -Terence McKenna


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: Donate Today For Freedom! [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7982221 - 02/05/08 11:11 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Well, we should ask ourselves that question, regarding how much power they already have. Look towards Washington for your answer. Washington is nothing but a nozzle from which billions of dollars spews forth, and then you just look to see who is standing there as it happens. The corporations already have far more power over the American people than most realize. We essentially have corporatism now, the control of the state by large interest groups.

Restricting and limiting the federal government and its spending, Ron Paul's comprehensive platform, would hurt large corporations most and benefit the American people and small businesses more. Anyone who thinks we aren't getting fucked in Washington by the corporations and the government isn't paying attention.





I don't quite understand this. Corporations are heavilly limited now a days by the FCC, and FTC for instance. Huge mergers have to be approved by the FTC so that we can avoid monopolies. The FCC has to approve certain mergers also so that we do not have monopolies over our telecommunications. It sounds like Ron Paul would want to get rid of these institutions. The obvious problem I see is that with no regulations on corporations we run the risk of monopolies, similar to what has showed up in our history before we started regulating such things.

Also I do not understand how cutting the federal government takes power away from corporations. If anything it allows them to totally run loose. Your point that they give money to candidates, buy votes, that sort of thing is merely A Workaround to get what they want. You simply propose to allow them to ignore bribes, and other things and simply just take what they want without opposition. I cannot see how this limits their power, you are giving them total control. Do you really think small businesses would be better off given a totally unrestricted Wal-Mart? Do you realize that we used to basically have a single phone company before it got broken up. I see no reason to return to this style, and it results naturally from a no rules situation.


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InvisibleSoY
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Re: Donate Today For Freedom! [Re: TheCow]
    #7982304 - 02/05/08 11:30 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Do you understand how the free market, especially in today's global economy, is the voice of the people, and itself is the regulator?

Like what Fireworks was talking about, through the free market, you let the price of oil rise until the people say fuck that and there is enough incentive to create alternative fuels.  The free market provides its own checks and balances, because the people are running it. 

If a corporation is doing things that the people do not approve of, the power of boycotting actually does something.  With a free market, corporations are trying to appease the people because if they don't, they will not make it.  Today's system with government subsidies and special interest groups enables corporate control.  They are not working to appease the people, they are working for themselves because they know the people have no power over their success.

btw: excellent posts Fireworks!! :thumbup:


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"


Edited by SoY (02/05/08 11:37 AM)


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Donate Today For Freedom! [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7982481 - 02/05/08 12:22 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Donating to Ron Paul is affecting actual change, even if he doesn't get elected President.




Could you explain this bit?


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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