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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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X is depressing
#7960070 - 01/31/08 12:51 PM (16 years, 1 day ago) |
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Note: this may be one of my more important topics. While nothing in here is new, this subject cannot be stressed enough.
'X' = some fact, person or thing.
'is depressing' may be substituted with any other reaction or emotional state linked to said fact such as 'is annoying' or 'is frustrating' or 'really pisses me off' and so on.
This is a spin-off thread where in a vending machine 'caused' a depressive state in one poster. However, a vending machine has the attributes of height, depth, width, mass, color(s), material makeup, and so on, but 'depressive' is NOT an attribute of the object, but a specific reactionary state chosen (consciously or unconsciously) by the viewer.
Part of the problem is verbal shorthand which fails to create any distance between object and viewer.
A much more accurate statement than "X is depressing" would be, "When I view X through my personal biases, I choose a depressive state as a viable response." In the first statement the two are equivocal, in the second there is a cause and one possible effect selected out of a near-infinite number of possible responses including a null reaction.
This is a fine example of neurosis as reality seeks to elicit no particular response nor is the response anywhere to be found in the object.
Grok?
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AnastomosisJihad
Hominid



Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 700
Loc: Ohio
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Quote:
I choose a depressive state as a viable response.
I don't think one's emotional response to an art work is merely a choice. Certain images are naturally associated with emotions. Advertising is all about this kind of thing.
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WhiskeyClone
Not here


Registered: 06/25/01
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Loc: Longitudinal Center of Canada ...
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Quote:
AnastomosisJihad said:
Quote:
I choose a depressive state as a viable response.
I don't think one's emotional response to an art work is merely a choice. Certain images are naturally associated with emotions. Advertising is all about this kind of thing.

Given that humans are reactive creatures, there are some stimuli that are going to produce a similar reaction in just about everybody. If somebody asks me if Requiem for a Dream is a disturbing film, I'm probably going to go ahead and say yes, even if I'm just projecting my emotional reaction onto it, verbal accuracy be damned.
I guess it's helpful to be aware of when we are projecting though. Good point, OC.
-------------------- Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it. ~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:A much more accurate statement than "X is depressing" would be, "When I view X through my personal biases, I choose a depressive state as a viable response."
conscious reaction/creation is good 
turn off the television, don't let the television turn you off
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger


Registered: 04/21/05
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E-prime?
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Jackenobi
Hermes



Registered: 05/06/06
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Note: this may be one of my more important topics. While nothing in here is new, this subject cannot be stressed enough.
'X' = some fact, person or thing.
'is depressing' may be substituted with any other reaction or emotional state linked to said fact such as 'is annoying' or 'is frustrating' or 'really pisses me off' and so on.
This is a spin-off thread where in a vending machine 'caused' a depressive state in one poster. However, a vending machine has the attributes of height, depth, width, mass, color(s), material makeup, and so on, but 'depressive' is NOT an attribute of the object, but a specific reactionary state chosen (consciously or unconsciously) by the viewer.
Part of the problem is verbal shorthand which fails to create any distance between object and viewer.
A much more accurate statement than "X is depressing" would be, "When I view X through my personal biases, I choose a depressive state as a viable response." In the first statement the two are equivocal, in the second there is a cause and one possible effect selected out of a near-infinite number of possible responses including a null reaction.
This is a fine example of neurosis as reality seeks to elicit no particular response nor is the response anywhere to be found in the object.
Grok?
These writings appear to me to be a wonderful kind of mini academic trip. The weight of truth always makes for a good experience, all the more so for their clear self evidence.
-------------------- read books
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Quote:
Given that humans are reactive creatures, there are some stimuli that are going to produce a similar reaction in just about everybody.
If we stick with the stimuli of film imagery, similar reactions will still only be found in a narrow select target audience.
Will images of hot young babes cavorting on the beach and drinking beer have the same affect on an old man as a young man? The same affect on a person from a culture that despises alcohol or who believes a woman's body should be covered? Certainly not!
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gluke bastid
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Yes I grok this fully as recent events of a very weak but "bad trip" has put me on a cycle of intense contemplation that seems to be resulting in an overall nihilism.
If you look at people's personalities as nothing more than a complex network of fantasies aimed at interpreting reality in a certain light (which is what was revealed to me during this trip), you begin to question your reaction to everyone and everything. People read what they want to into everything. From relationships to art to politics to the environment. I came to the conclusion that "love" for another person is merely based on what you fantasize that person to be and what they represent for you. The reality is that our anxieties and our joys are abitrary. Reality has no positive or negative nature. If we could see it for what it is, we would see nothing. No positive, no negative, no past or present or future or time at all. Just an expanse of moving particles, indistinguishable from each other, stretching for eternity in all directions.
I was not happy, although maybe ready, to discover this. I have been feeling very nihilistic these days. I perceive reality to have no meaning, to be like a blank canvas, and I am having trouble painting a world for myself because I feel like all of my life's emotions and motivations have just been a stew of neuroses. I keep asking myself where to go from here, but if my observations have been correct, there's nowhere to go at all.
I can't help but find this depressing, or at least non-motivating.
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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OrgoneConclusion
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You almost got 'there'. The end result is not nothing, but freedom.
You plan a picnic with some friends. It starts raining and several comment about how the 'day was ruined' by the weather, but not you! You are free to find joy or bliss or excitement or beauty or whatever you so choose in the rain. You are not limited by a precanned, robotic response.
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AnastomosisJihad
Hominid



Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 700
Loc: Ohio
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-------------------- come together
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DimensionX
King of Birds


Registered: 09/26/07
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
You plan a picnic with some friends. It starts raining and several comment about how the 'day was ruined' by the weather, but not you! You are free to find joy or bliss or excitement or beauty or whatever you so choose in the rain. You are not limited by a precanned, robotic response.
That is what ive always seen as the ultimate goal of Buddhism.
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AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist



Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: You almost got 'there'. The end result is not nothing, but freedom.
You plan a picnic with some friends. It starts raining and several comment about how the 'day was ruined' by the weather, but not you! You are free to find joy or bliss or excitement or beauty or whatever you so choose in the rain. You are not limited by a precanned, robotic response.
well said OC.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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At first, I thought this post was about Ecstasy.
I agree with you 100%. We choose to be depressed, though it might not be a conscious choice. In fact, the more unconscious one is, the more likely it is that our habitual thoughts will lead to anger and depression.
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'



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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
This is a spin-off thread where in a vending machine 'caused' a depressive state in one poster.
I'm flattered that my off-the-cuff comment regarding weed vending machines was so glaringly flawed that it deserved its own thread in which to be critiqued. Seriously. 
Of course your criticism is completely apt.
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



Registered: 09/07/04
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Re: X is depressing [Re: Veritas]
#7962725 - 01/31/08 11:10 PM (16 years, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: This is a spin-off thread where in a vending machine 'caused' a depressive state in one poster.
They can also cause bruising.... 

Quote:
Veritas said:
At first, I thought this post was about Ecstasy.
That's the hook....! 
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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porcupine
Stranger

Registered: 01/09/05
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Note: this may be one of my more important topics. While nothing in here is new, this subject cannot be stressed enough.
'X' = some fact, person or thing.
'is depressing' may be substituted with any other reaction or emotional state linked to said fact such as 'is annoying' or 'is frustrating' or 'really pisses me off' and so on.
This is a spin-off thread where in a vending machine 'caused' a depressive state in one poster. However, a vending machine has the attributes of height, depth, width, mass, color(s), material makeup, and so on, but 'depressive' is NOT an attribute of the object, but a specific reactionary state chosen (consciously or unconsciously) by the viewer.
Part of the problem is verbal shorthand which fails to create any distance between object and viewer.
A much more accurate statement than "X is depressing" would be, "When I view X through my personal biases, I choose a depressive state as a viable response." In the first statement the two are equivocal, in the second there is a cause and one possible effect selected out of a near-infinite number of possible responses including a null reaction.
This is a fine example of neurosis as reality seeks to elicit no particular response nor is the response anywhere to be found in the object.
Grok?
this post reminds me very strongly of concepts found in buddhism.
i think the logical question to ask is, if we understand this then why do we continue to experience reality as if X caused our state of mind? the answer given in the buddhist literature i read is that the unconsciouss mind (this is probably the wrong terminology but i can't remember the original terminology) is so quick to respond that it happens in a matter of miliseconds and we fail to catch it. by training the mind, it supposedly possible to put an end to this and that's one of the aims of practising buddhism.
however if anyone has had actual success with doing this i would like to know about it.
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porcupine
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Re: X is depressing [Re: porcupine]
#7963177 - 02/01/08 01:25 AM (16 years, 1 day ago) |
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"I came to the conclusion that "love" for another person is merely based on what you fantasize that person to be and what they represent for you."
i have come to the same conclusion. i want to post more on this but its late and i have to be up for work tomorrow, so goodbye for now.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: X is depressing [Re: porcupine]
#7963789 - 02/01/08 08:08 AM (16 years, 18 hours ago) |
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Quote:
porcupine said: "I came to the conclusion that "love" for another person is merely based on what you fantasize that person to be and what they represent for you."
I strongly disagree, but a detailed response would be entirely off-topic for this thread. Perhaps I'll start one of my own...
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gluke bastid
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Re: X is depressing [Re: Veritas]
#7963933 - 02/01/08 08:51 AM (16 years, 18 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said:
Quote:
porcupine said: "I came to the conclusion that "love" for another person is merely based on what you fantasize that person to be and what they represent for you."
I strongly disagree, but a detailed response would be entirely off-topic for this thread. Perhaps I'll start one of my own...
No it wouldn't.
Please discuss.
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum



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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: You almost got 'there'. The end result is not nothing, but freedom.
But if "depressing" is nothing, than "freedom" is nothing. What is the difference between freedom and nothing? I don't see one. By realizing that the nature of reality is an infinite nothing, how does that make one free? It seems like you are free to make one of two choices, you can either jump back into the fantasy that life has any meaning at all and go through cycles of suffering or joy(both totally artificial), or you can see reality for what it is (nothing) and just wait around to die.
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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