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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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The Columbia University 'Miracle' Study
#7959734 - 01/31/08 10:46 AM (16 years, 1 day ago) |
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On October 2, 2001, the New York Times reported that researchers at prestigious Columbia University Medical Center in New York had discovered something quite extraordinary (1). Using virtually foolproof scientific methods the researchers had demonstrated that infertile women who were prayed for by Christian prayer groups became pregnant twice as often as those who did not have people praying for them. The study was published in the Journal of Reproductive Medicine (2). Even the researchers were shocked. The study's results could only be described as miraculous. This was welcome and wonderful news for a shaken nation.
Um, not surprising to this skeptic was that the entire study consisted of fraud (The evangelical man behind the study is in Federal prison for fraud) and had so many flaws in its inception that it cannot be called 'science'.

Disregarding the 'results' and convoluted protocols (such as one prayer group praying for the increased 'prayer power' of another group who prayed for the patients ) of the study for a moment, the basic premise being tested COULD NOT BE TESTED. Why? Glad you asked!
One of the prayers asked that "God's will or desire be fulfilled". As the women patients in the study already had severe fertility problems, perhaps God had already made his will clear. Who-the-fuck-knows? As we cannot measure or know 'God's will', how can the outcome be scientifically determined to be in alignment with God's will unless any result must, ipso facto, be in alignment with his will?
Read a full review of the evangelical prayer mish-mash study here.
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im_on_a_boat
Stranger

Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 3,950
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ya.
i mean you can say it helped, but there's no way to scientifically prove that it helped.
but God isn't science and sometimes you just have to deal with what you've got.
there's more kids out there with no parents than parents with no kids..
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Yes, my mother still thinks she got pregnant and had me because she prayed
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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im_on_a_boat
Stranger

Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 3,950
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Re: The Columbia University 'Miracle' Study [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7959888 - 01/31/08 11:35 AM (16 years, 1 day ago) |
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nothing wrong with that.
you might not be here if she hadn't.
you cant absolutely say that it did nothing to help her.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: The Columbia University 'Miracle' Study [Re: im_on_a_boat]
#7959946 - 01/31/08 11:58 AM (16 years, 1 day ago) |
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Yes, I can until such time are there is some evidence that normal physical laws can be temporarily suspended because of talking to one's self.
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im_on_a_boat
Stranger

Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 3,950
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i'm not saying it did anything, but you cant say that it didn't do anything.
your mom simply had a post hoc fallacy of reasoning..
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WhiskeyClone
Not here


Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,509
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Canada ...
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: the basic premise being tested COULD NOT BE TESTED. Why? Glad you asked!
One of the prayers asked that "God's will or desire be fulfilled". As the women patients in the study already had severe fertility problems, perhaps God had already made his will clear. Who-the-fuck-knows? As we cannot measure or know 'God's will', how can the outcome be scientifically determined to be in alignment with God's will unless any result must, ipso facto, be in alignment with his will?
Of course they could do a study in which the participants are instructed to pray for the woman to conceive, not for God's will to be fulfilled, but that would leave them open to the possibility that the results may indicate what they do not want to be true.
What's the point of praying for God's will to be fulfilled? Isn't that happening anyway?
-------------------- Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it. ~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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ShroomFan
nn dmt

Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 866
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: The Columbia University 'Miracle' Study [Re: WhiskeyClone]
#7963280 - 02/01/08 02:21 AM (16 years, 23 hours ago) |
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-------------------- Fellow Shroomerites, if you Love expressing yourself with a dope tee shirt feast your 3rd eye on www.facebook.com/vicereversa ∞ Conscious Clothing for Conscious Minds ∞ Wear a tee , open a mind Each shirt is spawned to Arouse Awareness <> We believe in Sustainability & Giving back <> Do you know of a community project or persons in need you feel deserves attention? - Tell us on our page And we just might pick the story > develop a tee > and donate the proceeds to that cause. ∞♥∞ Unget it, VICE REVERSA
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Cubie
Moderator




Registered: 01/11/08
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Re: The Columbia University 'Miracle' Study [Re: ShroomFan]
#7963324 - 02/01/08 03:05 AM (16 years, 22 hours ago) |
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I think its just the comfert in hope and positiveness that praying creates. Praying is just a whinyer type of medatating...
Prrrraaayeeeer Poweeeeeer!!!!!!!!
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
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Re: The Columbia University 'Miracle' Study [Re: Cubie]
#7963497 - 02/01/08 05:42 AM (16 years, 20 hours ago) |
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I like this gem from the link provided above:
Quote:
It must be emphasized that, in the entire history of modern science, no claim of any type of supernatural phenomena has ever been replicated under strictly controlled conditions.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: The Columbia University 'Miracle' Study [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7963584 - 02/01/08 06:17 AM (16 years, 19 hours ago) |
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Next time it would kick ass to repeat the same experiment but this time they shouldn't be allowed to have sex. I mean, what difference would it make if they're infertile anyways?
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The Columbia University 'Miracle' Study [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7964835 - 02/01/08 12:56 PM (16 years, 12 hours ago) |
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One of the hardest things for humans to realize is the difference between wanting something to be true and what is true. I am very guilty of this myself.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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