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OfflineBoomer13
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How much shrooms we talkin'?
    #7958898 - 01/31/08 01:12 AM (16 years, 2 days ago)

I'm planning on starting my first crop and was just curious, I'm using pf tek's technique with vermiculite and brown rice flour in 5 1/2 pint jars with 2 cc's of spores in each jar. I'm planning on using cambodian spores and was wondering how much shrooms (dried) that would most likely produce, and if there were any better methods to yield more shrooms with the same amount of spores?


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Invisiblelarge_dose
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Re: How much shrooms we talkin'? [Re: Boomer13]
    #7958983 - 01/31/08 02:04 AM (16 years, 2 days ago)

not much...

enough for you and a couple buddies to trip


Edited by large_dose (01/31/08 02:06 AM)


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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: How much shrooms we talkin'? [Re: Boomer13]
    #7959056 - 01/31/08 03:02 AM (16 years, 2 days ago)

There are many many ways of increasing yield, from simply casing your pf tek to upgrading to grain spawn and bulk substrate. If these don't sound familiar to you then you have lots of reading to do


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Re: How much shrooms we talkin'? [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #7959133 - 01/31/08 04:46 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Apart from the fact that there are about 1.000 threads, dealing with this question and NOBODY will ever be able to tell you the amount, cakes are the last decision when it comes to yield amounts (what I want to say with this, is: Try the search function of this site. It really helps!)
The best yields are achieved, when spawning colonized WBS (wet bird seed)or rye berries to dung based bulk material, which means, that you actually use the WBS etc. as an inoculation substrate to create a BIIIG pile of mycelium (the bulk material). The more nutrients and water the mycelium gets, the better it performs!


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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: How much shrooms we talkin'? [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #7959270 - 01/31/08 06:35 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
There are many many ways of increasing yield, from simply casing your pf tek to upgrading to grain spawn and bulk substrate. If these don't sound familiar to you then you have lots of reading to do




Wrong, just casing a pf tek will not increase yeilds, there are no extra nuitrients. Now if you spawned pf tek to a bulk substrate and cased thats a different story.

If things go ok and your fruiting chamber is setup right. Expect somewhere between 15 grams to 40 grams (possibly more) from 5 cakes

Its hard to say when working with multispore as the results can vary so much due to variance in genetics.

My first flush from 2 cakes was 18 grams. Next set of cakes i got 25 from 4, then 40 from 4 cakes.


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
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Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
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OfflineFahkface
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Re: How much shrooms we talkin'? [Re: veda_sticks]
    #7959286 - 01/31/08 06:47 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Wrong, just casing a pf tek will not increase yeilds, there are no extra nuitrients. Now if you spawned pf tek to a bulk substrate and cased thats a different story.




Sorry, but as coir is one of the most common casing materials, your statement is wrong.

Coir does contain lots of nutrients and can actually be used as a bulk substrate!

Though you're right in one way: Pure coir actually doesn't have any nutrients, but actually all the coir that's sold enriched with different things, such as compost etc. because it's sold to use it as substitute for flower earth etc.


Edited by Fahkface (01/31/08 06:53 AM)


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Offlinelaten
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Re: How much shrooms we talkin'? [Re: Fahkface]
    #7959300 - 01/31/08 07:07 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

I thought coir does have nutrients, thats why its recommended for bulk and not casing.


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OfflineNibin
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Re: How much shrooms we talkin'? [Re: Fahkface]
    #7959444 - 01/31/08 08:41 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Fahkface said:
Quote:

Wrong, just casing a pf tek will not increase yeilds, there are no extra nuitrients. Now if you spawned pf tek to a bulk substrate and cased thats a different story.




Sorry, but as coir is one of the most common casing materials, your statement is wrong.

Coir does contain lots of nutrients and can actually be used as a bulk substrate!

Though you're right in one way: Pure coir actually doesn't have any nutrients, but actually all the coir that's sold enriched with different things, such as compost etc. because it's sold to use it as substitute for flower earth etc.




If you mix with coir, you are spawning to a bulk substrate not casing, even if you do put the coir ontop as if it were a casing layer, it is still a substrate.

Casing with a real casing material (which is non nutritious) will not increase yields, always given ideal conditions obviously.


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Re: How much shrooms we talkin'? [Re: Boomer13]
    #7959456 - 01/31/08 08:47 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Boomer13 said:
I'm planning on starting my first crop and was just curious, I'm using pf tek's technique with vermiculite and brown rice flour in 5 1/2 pint jars with 2 cc's of spores in each jar. I'm planning on using cambodian spores and was wondering how much shrooms (dried) that would most likely produce, and if there were any better methods to yield more shrooms with the same amount of spores?




First time growing,few to none..


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Invisibleshroober
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Re: How much shrooms we talkin'? [Re: Brainiac]
    #7959476 - 01/31/08 08:59 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

i'd say at least 5 lbs dry

or perhaps 5 ounces...

wait, maybe 5 grams...

i cant remember


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: How much shrooms we talkin'? [Re: shroober]
    #7959521 - 01/31/08 09:21 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Sorry, but as coir is one of the most common casing materials, your statement is wrong




Coir is not a common casing material. It's a common substrate material, on par with horse or cow manure.
RR


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Offlineriby
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Re: How much shrooms we talkin'? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7959560 - 01/31/08 09:35 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

can nobody answer this question? has nobody weighed what comes off one of there cakes? can someone please give an example of what they yield from 5 or so cakes. sure it varies, but if people just keep putting out sarcastic responses then it really doesn't help anyone, if you dont know then don't reply. im sure the poster was completely aware that he wont yield like the best of you, but if you actually have an idea of what you're doing, you might be able to give an estimate or at least what you get on average. but to be fair, perhaps the people that really know how to grow dont use individual cakes. but still...



in your experience, what have any of you yielded from one cake, or on average 5.

thanks Veda, anyone else?


Edited by riby (01/31/08 09:38 AM)


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Re: How much shrooms we talkin'? [Re: riby]
    #7959606 - 01/31/08 09:53 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

AND YES Casing a cake can INCREASE IMMEDIATE flush yields.
by increasing surface area. like the flat cake tek. and it provides a casing layer to keep a minienvironment under it.

but yea spawning to bulk is just the most badass thing you can do.


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Re: How much shrooms we talkin'? [Re: Boomer13]
    #7959673 - 01/31/08 10:26 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Just say with cakes for your first time growing.Go with 4oz jars for faster growth.


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Offlineaddy
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Re: How much shrooms we talkin'? [Re: Brainiac]
    #7959698 - 01/31/08 10:34 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

I got 47 grams dry from my first flush of 12 cakes. Pretty happy considering it was my 1st attempt ever. :thumbup:


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Re: How much shrooms we talkin'? [Re: Brainiac]
    #7959702 - 01/31/08 10:35 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

yes i agree. even doing a simple vermiculite casing will increase yields. just do a first layer of damp verm. then crumble the substrate over it with another layer of damp verm over it. this simple casing will easily increase yields if you are nervous and dont yet want to try the more complicated stuff.


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Invisibleshroober
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Re: How much shrooms we talkin'? [Re: shr00mer420]
    #7959710 - 01/31/08 10:40 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

I don't want to argue on this because honestly I'm not sure either way. But logically it just doesn't make sense to me. How can it increase yields if no additional nutrients are being introduced? I can see why it will produce higher amounts on the first flush simply because you have more surface area, but accumulatively I don't see how simply casing broken-up PF cakes with verm can increase yields?


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Offlineskattman1982
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Re: How much shrooms we talkin'? [Re: Boomer13]
    #7959796 - 01/31/08 11:02 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

there is no exact answer because conditions vary too much from one person to the next and from one batch of spores to the next. there's no telling if you are going to get one flush or five from your cakes.
one flush and you could get 5 grams... 5 flushes and you could get 25 or 45 grams. too many factors.

read read read read read read.


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Offlinejoedonbaker
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Re: How much shrooms we talkin'? [Re: shroober]
    #7959824 - 01/31/08 11:11 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Because you are ensuring the conditions stay closer to the "ideal" range. Your yield is dependent on many factors, but providing more moisture to any substrate is more than likely going to benefit your yield. Fahtster has done amazing things with cakes, and IIRC one thing he has done to dramatically increase yields was add a narrow column of vermiculite to the center of a cake to act as a water reservoir.

Keep in mind this is a clone, but without adding nutritional value, he greatly increased the yield. (This is NOT my grow and I take no credit for this pic, it's taken from one of Fahtster's topics and is simply the best example I could find that you don't need to add nutrients just to get a bigger crop.)



--------------------
When inferior men censure, the good man pays no heed.


Edited by joedonbaker (01/31/08 11:16 AM)


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Offlineasknoquestions
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Re: How much shrooms we talkin'? [Re: joedonbaker]
    #7959875 - 01/31/08 11:29 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Actually, those are from an isolate, but what you said still stands.


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Offlinejoedonbaker
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Re: How much shrooms we talkin'? [Re: asknoquestions]
    #7959907 - 01/31/08 11:43 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

That's what I meant by "Keep in mind this is a clone". My point was keeping conditions ideal can increase yields without adding more nutrients. If you go from an uncased, multispore cake to a cased, clone/isolate cake you are almost certainly going to have a better harvest, but you still have that same base "food source" of BRF.


--------------------
When inferior men censure, the good man pays no heed.


Edited by joedonbaker (01/31/08 11:48 AM)


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Re: How much shrooms we talkin'? [Re: joedonbaker]
    #7959965 - 01/31/08 12:07 PM (16 years, 1 day ago)

hehe... those are also two double stacked 1/2 pints.. but that isolate does kick ass in fruit potentiality.. casing a cake will give you a higher chance for fruit development; bringing you closer to the max potential of the cakes' fruit production.. i.e., more pins.. and if you have those pins and the right amount of water, those pins will mature into full fruit bodies.  nutes will really only come into play in an extreme sense if you are talking about the longevity of the cake over multiple flushes.. a cake or any other substrate never uses all it's nutes to produce fruits and giving it an over abundance of nutes won't necessarily make it perform better if the needed amount is already there.. a cake has a set amount that it will produce over any amount of flushes.  whether you get them in the first two flushes or four so-so flushes.  this is of course based on the myc you are using.

I would say that if you do really nice research and follow advice well you can expect about 3.5-6.0 dry grams from each cake.. thats if you get them past the colonization stage and keep them well hydrated.. dunk.. or add water to the casing layer slowly over the period of a few days.  probably the easiest way to do it is dunk right after you start seeing pins form on the cakes while they are still in the jars.. this takes about 4 weeks on average.. then you can just DEC or do a roll, but for god sakes clean the verm you are rolling your cakes in first.. don't roll it in that nasty dirty ass shit.. lol  you work soooo hard to keep your cakes clean, don't wreck in at the end. :wink:

for your first time, I would suggest not using anything automated or even an incubator.. room temp for colonization and fruiting is just fine.. thats all I've ever used.. not to say you shouldn't incubate if you want to, just not the first time.. keep it super simple KISS.. your first time... get some fruits and then experiment so if you do fail in some respect, and you will so get used to it, you won't feel too discouraged to keep trying because you already know you can do it in a simple way.

never put your eggs in one basket if you are trying something new or if something just "feels right" to do.. "feels right" doesn't grow mushrooms, experience and failure does.  tis the root of science. :smile:  good luck!

fahtster


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Re: How much shrooms we talkin'? [Re: fahtster]
    #7960003 - 01/31/08 12:26 PM (16 years, 1 day ago)

I actually had an idea about what going on when we flush the substrate.. just from what I've seen anyway...  the sub creates tertiary tissue where it's exposed to gases like CO2 and O2.. this tissue is what produces the fruit bodies.. and when we are flushing the substrate, we are just using up that available tertiary tissue.. thats why when you get a huge first flush, your subsequent flushes are smaller because you've already used up that available tissue.. the second flush usually comes so fast that it only has that leftover tissue to produce fruits for the "second" flush which is really just an extension of the first or available fruiting myc.. the sub doesn't have enough time before the second flush to produce more tertiary tissue where the first was picked due to not having been exposed to those gases.  I say this because I never really see new fruits growing from the already picked areas.. If I get a nice first flush I'll usually only see fruits on the edges and a few between the areas of the first flush. 

just an idea about whats happening... cakes are no different in this respect except that they have a lot of exposed surface area which = more tertiary tissue available to fruit from.. I think thats why smaller substrates tend to fruit more aggressively than say a large straw log... Im sure a lot of other factors come into play of course, but just some things to think about. :smile:

fahtster


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OfflineBoomer13
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Re: How much shrooms we talkin'? [Re: fahtster]
    #7963060 - 02/01/08 12:38 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Hey thank you all for your advice. I really hope this first go around really gives me some good shroom yields, and hey I know if anything goes wrong you guys know more then me so I'll just ask, and keep on growin'....also, i know i'm getting ahead of myself but any good techniques that are cheap and easy from drying them?


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