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Fugai
Stranger


Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 80
Loc: Orygun
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Re: An Eye for an Eye.... [Re: PhanTomCat]
#7957400 - 01/30/08 07:34 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
Getting to a point of physical violence from a starting point of words seems silly.... Not saying that it doesn't happen every day.... But, this stuff is ego driven pissing matches mostly....
That is exactly my point. In my opinion, in that context as you describe it, that man should die. Context is everything in ethical considerations
-------------------- Principles of acceptance * People do not progress by being questioned, they progress by questioning themselves. * When ready for the answer, people will come to the question of themselves.
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prankster
the twin
Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 96
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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Re: An Eye for an Eye.... [Re: Fugai]
#7957443 - 01/30/08 07:43 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
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Maybe you guys are right, I just don't know. I always liked this quote by Ken Kesey though:
You can't bomb for a humane reason. What we should do is just Mother Teresa them to death with love. It's that old hippie nonsense but it's still the best stuff there is.
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
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Re: An Eye for an Eye.... [Re: Fugai]
#7957470 - 01/30/08 07:49 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
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Fugai said: Context is everything in ethical considerations
Yes, and my opening post is flawed with vagueness....  Context is a major factor in determining any kind of "just" ethical consideration.... Which is slightly difficult, beings that reality has the "your side, my side, and the truth" POVs....
Weeds don't belong in a garden.... And a working structured society by it's very nature, is the building of a garden....
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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Fugai
Stranger


Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 80
Loc: Orygun
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Re: An Eye for an Eye.... [Re: prankster]
#7957481 - 01/30/08 07:51 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
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don't worry prankster I'll defend you with my bombs when Mother theresa'ing doesn't work out.;)
-------------------- Principles of acceptance * People do not progress by being questioned, they progress by questioning themselves. * When ready for the answer, people will come to the question of themselves.
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
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Re: An Eye for an Eye.... [Re: Fugai]
#7957491 - 01/30/08 07:53 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
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>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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prankster
the twin
Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 96
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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Re: An Eye for an Eye.... [Re: Fugai]
#7957496 - 01/30/08 07:54 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
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Hahaha. Thanks. Tell Ayn Rand I said hello.
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Coaster
Baʿal



Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 33,501
Loc: Deep in the Valley
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
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Re: An Eye for an Eye.... [Re: prankster]
#7957547 - 01/30/08 08:00 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
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an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind...
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prankster
the twin
Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 96
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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Re: An Eye for an Eye.... [Re: Coaster]
#7957562 - 01/30/08 08:02 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
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Are you sure?
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Coaster
Baʿal



Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 33,501
Loc: Deep in the Valley
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
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Re: An Eye for an Eye.... [Re: prankster]
#7957689 - 01/30/08 08:26 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
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ya i saw it on a bumper sticker, so it must be true
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: An Eye for an Eye.... [Re: Fugai]
#7957806 - 01/30/08 08:53 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
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Fugai said:
Quote:
The exact same action can and is just for some and unjust for others. It all comes down to which side the law decides to incline and it suddenly becomes acceptable.
I usually try to compassionately debate others views respectfully. I am sorry that this struck a cord. But that is absolute bullshit!! That sort of pluralistic perspectivism is what leads to, for one thing, the abuse of millions of people based on religious beliefs. That we should accept any action that harms an inoccent person or curtails there own freedoms as a human being based on the fact that it is part of some belief system sickens me. What about the castration of young woman in Islam? Ancient religions had instances of human sacrifice, should we accept that? Another interpretation of what your saying would lead to the logical conclusion that Rape, Murder etcetera etcetera are acceptable depending on the persons perspective who is performing the act. Again, sorry, but bullshit That sort of thinking is also what leads to burglars filing law suits against residence because they fell on a knife while trying to break in. It has happened!
So you are against punishing ("castration of young woman in Islam", "Ancient religions had instances of human sacrifice", rape, murder), but you are FOR punishing the punisher.  Let's assume that we somehow might be able to calculate all the possible consequences of our actions on everything and everyone, but how would that stand for incorruptibility? Perhaps it would be wiser to say that we will be able to talk and appreciate in terms like more or less preferable. Something else than that would mean there there is a generic and universal conduit for our behavior. And if you sustain the idea, please back it up.
Look, crimes are illegal, rapes are illegal. Does this stop people for thinking and making them? A moral stigma will never stop people from committing crimes (legal or illegal). Does the fact that weed or LSD are illegal stop you from consuming them? How does this make your crime more acceptable than murder, other than a subjective point of view, which can also be translated in crime elitism?  Of course, you could argue and say that... murder is worse than consuming drugs... but this is also as biased as it comes.  What I am arguing about is that this labeling that you use must be accepted and must not be accepted = is good and is bad. Labeling which obviously has no effect. I don't sustain that I have an answer regarding what might stop humans from committing rape or murder, but I do sustain that punishing just doesn't do the trick. And why should we focus our attention, consume our energy and money on things with no effect? And more to that, on things that DICTATE us a model by which we should live our lives?  And, from what I know and observed, many of our "problems" come from the fact that others try to impose their point of view in our lives, in our privacy, in our power and strength of decision.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Fugai
Stranger


Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 80
Loc: Orygun
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Quote:
Something else than that would mean there there is a generic and universal conduit for our behavior. And if you sustain the idea, please back it up.
How about "Do no harm". And by the way con·duit –noun 1. a pipe, tube, or the like, for conveying water or other fluid. 2. a similar natural passage. 3. Electricity. a structure containing one or more ducts. 4. Archaic. a fountain. And "if I sustain the idea"? Really? Come of it. You can express your thoughts and opinions without trying to artificially sophisticate your dialectic, it sounds trite when you do.
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Does the fact that weed or LSD are illegal stop you from consuming them? How does this make your crime more acceptable than murder, other than a subjective point of view
Much more than just subjective. My crime does no harm to anyone. How dare you compare it to murder? Especially with a name like mushroomtrip! Is eating mushrooms akin to murder?
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which can also be translated in crime elitism?
You know, I really so hate to come to this conclusion, but you leave me no recourse. You have no idea what your talking about do you? What your saying doesn't make any sense at all. It's not even a real sentence! Despite the fact that your position is completely in-defensible, you can't even summon a workable vocabulary. examples:
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What I am arguing about is that this labeling that you use must be accepted and must not be accepted = is good and is bad
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And more to that, on things that DICTATE us a model by which we should live our lives
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And, from what I know and observed, many of our "problems" come from the fact that others try to impose their point of view in our lives, in our privacy, in our power and strength of decision.
Are you drunk?
Either way, I understand the idea your trying to get across even though you can't form complete sentences. Should we all just let these things happen? Should we turn a blind eye? Or not seek justice? Do you think Gacey or Dahmer, or Bundy would have stopped on their own? Do you think we should forgive these things? And if so, how many times? I would love to see you keep that point of view after having someone close to you murdered. Or god forbid after being raped yourself. You have to be aware, as are we all, that your own position is in-defensible and are just arguing for the sake of it. Either that or you are a complete fool.
-------------------- Principles of acceptance * People do not progress by being questioned, they progress by questioning themselves. * When ready for the answer, people will come to the question of themselves.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: An Eye for an Eye.... [Re: Fugai]
#7958086 - 01/30/08 10:00 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
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Much more than just subjective. My crime does no harm to anyone. How dare you compare it to murder? Especially with a name like mushroomtrip! Is eating mushrooms akin to murder?
What the fuck does my name have to do with everything in this thread? Are you unable to make the difference between personal attacks and attacks towards an idea?  Ohhh, look... I DARE to compare one with the other.  Also it looks to me that you fail at thinking on the long run. How can you honestly state that you eating mushrooms can not hurt anyone? That's plain stupid.  You can hurt your family (especially if you go to prison for that), you can hurt the ones that care about you if you somehow have a bad trip and decide to hurt yourself or others, and the list could go on forever.  Also a murder can also have good long term effects. Wow, imagine that! 
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You know, I really so hate to come to this conclusion, but you leave me no recourse. You have no idea what your talking about do you? What your saying doesn't make any sense at all. It's not even a real sentence! Despite the fact that your position is completely in-defensible, you can't even summon a workable vocabulary. examples:
Showing flaws in my vocabulary dies not refute any on my ideas.  Niiice way to try to get out. Childish I might add. 
Quote:
Either way, I understand the idea your trying to get across even though you can't form complete sentences. Should we all just let these things happen? Should we turn a blind eye? Or not seek justice? Do you think Gacey or Dahmer, or Bundy would have stopped on their own? Do you think we should forgive these things? And if so, how many times? I would love to see you keep that point of view after having someone close to you murdered. Or god forbid after being raped yourself. You have to be aware, as are we all, that your own position is in-defensible and are just arguing for the sake of it. Either that or you are a complete fool.
Nice appeal to fear  You really suck at debate  What does: "I would love to see you keep that point of view after having someone close to you murdered. Or god forbid after being raped yourself. You have to be aware, as are we all, that your own position is in-defensible and are just arguing for the sake of it." proves? I'll tell you what it proves.  You just proved that punishing crimes is just a revenge act  Seek justice?  You still have not defined justice to me. And please, no more bull shit like: "it's not good" and "it's not bad" I already refuted all that for you. , unless you come up with a good argument to sustain the necessity of using "good" and "bad", which I would be really curious to hear.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist



Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
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that's all i've got to add right now.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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You might share some popcorn you know?
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist



Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
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i'll give you a how about that?
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Ahhh, thank you
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Fugai
Stranger


Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 80
Loc: Orygun
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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good lets keep on, I don't mind believe me
Quote:
What the fuck does my name have to do with everything in this thread
I had thought it would be immediately apparent. You equated eating illegal substances with murder. Your name is mushroomtrip. Mushrooms are an illegal substance. You obviously eat mushrooms. You equated eating said substance with MURDER! I wouldn't think that I would have had to spell it out. And by the way, you probably meant " what does your name have to do with ANYthing in this thread" that would be the proper verbiage.
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Are you unable to make the difference between personal attacks and attacks towards an idea
Am I unable to make the difference??
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Ohhh, look... I DARE to compare one with the other
What?? You really are drunk aren't you?
OK, I'll stop pointing that kind of thing out. It is very hard to take either you and your position seriously, sorry We will focus on the issues I guess. That is IF I am able to surmise your meaning out of this drivel.
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How can you honestly state that you eating mushrooms can not hurt anyone? That's plain stupid. You can hurt your family (especially if you go to prison for that), you can hurt the ones that care about you if you somehow have a bad trip and decide to hurt yourself or others, and the list could go on forever
First of all thats absolute bullshit. And if you really believe all that, your a hypocrite. And by the way I didn't say it couldn't hurt anyone, what I said is that by my eating it I am not doing harm to anyone. And if someone hurts another person while under the influence, it is not the fault of the substance. But that is besides the issue. You equated it with murder! Yet your name is mushroomtrip!
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Also a murder can also have good long term effects. Wow, imagine that!
Are you serious?? That right there, aside from anything else you have said, COMPLETELY invalidates your point of view.
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You still have not defined justice to me. And please, no more bull shit like: "it's not good" and "it's not bad" I already refuted all that for you. , unless you come up with a good argument to sustain the necessity of using "good" and "bad", which I would be really curious to hear.
You haven't refuted anything. You haven't even summoned a workable vocabulary. And as a matter of fact, if you will review the posts I did define justice. I said it was balance. And I know I said I wouldn't do it again, but really it is ridiculous. Do you even pay attention to what your typing? I know you don't talk like that. A person with that severe of a handicap would not be using a computer at all. That whole paragraph makes no sense! Even the spell checker can't help you! And for you to tell me to summon something more substantial than "its good", I actually laughed out loud.
Someone else join the fray for gods sake. I can't be the only one willing refute your in-defensible and frankly offensive position.
-------------------- Principles of acceptance * People do not progress by being questioned, they progress by questioning themselves. * When ready for the answer, people will come to the question of themselves.
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Fugai
Stranger


Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 80
Loc: Orygun
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Damn you two. You know it's bullshit. But your happy spectating. At least share the popcorn;)
-------------------- Principles of acceptance * People do not progress by being questioned, they progress by questioning themselves. * When ready for the answer, people will come to the question of themselves.
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AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist



Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
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Re: An Eye for an Eye.... [Re: Fugai]
#7958366 - 01/30/08 10:49 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
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but i ate it all.
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: An Eye for an Eye.... [Re: Fugai]
#7958450 - 01/30/08 11:06 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
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Here, have some skittles.
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