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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?"
    #7955236 - 01/30/08 11:53 AM (16 years, 2 days ago)

What is the purpose of continuing this charade?

Listen, I don't begrudge the Conservatives their news network. Thats fine. But at least have the gall to be honest about it. Call yourself the fucking Conservative News Network.

Why maintain a guise of legitimacy?

I know the Conservatives gush about CNN being a liberal outlet, but they don't watch it much. I watch it every day and there is a vast breadth of views supported by CNN, MSNBC, and the others. Is there one liberal with a show on Fox News? Alan Colmes? Does he really count?

I don't hate Fox News. They have the best production values of the networks, but just drop the "Fair & Balanced" shit. Everyone knows its not true, from Rupert Murdoch to whoever that blond-haired cunt is who screeches at me every day around 4 pm.

so why?


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7955254 - 01/30/08 12:00 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Alan Colmes? Does he really count?

Colmes is merely a stooge designed to make Hannity look good by comparison. He is an unattractive man who is fairly passive in manner.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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OfflineWScott
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: zorbman]
    #7955285 - 01/30/08 12:10 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

If it was the Conservative News Network (CNN2 I guess), wouldn't they be more in favor of Ron Paul?

Bill O'Reilly is the symbol of one absolute, Colbert the other, imo. It is a game.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7955325 - 01/30/08 12:22 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

I hate fox news. and u are right fuck "Fair & Balanced"!



Who cares what Alan Colmes thinks. (liberal idiot)

Who cares what Geraldo Rivera thinks? (Socialist)

and i cant stand to look at Greta Van Susterens little Commie face!



Fair”, is good enough, I have no interest in balance.

right now i prefer CNN with a BS filter


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


Edited by lonestar2004 (01/30/08 12:23 PM)


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Offlined33p
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7955498 - 01/30/08 01:12 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

cnn is just as bad

get over it and find something better if msm news bothers you so much


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: zorbman]
    #7955530 - 01/30/08 01:19 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

zorbman said:
Alan Colmes? Does he really count?

Colmes is merely a stooge designed to make Hannity look good by comparison. He is an unattractive man who is fairly passive in manner.




No.. he's the token liberal so they can try to pull off the "FAIR AND BALANCED" facade.

If it really WERE fair and balanced, Colmes would have his own show on fox. He doesn't.. does he?

I'm be damned if Fox doesn't have the hottest female reporters through.

But yea, they picked the least articulate, most stereotypical liberal to put up there.. Alan.

Geraldo isn't a socialist.. just a complete idiot. Greta is about the only non-polar person on that whole network and only because she just covers a bunch of boring ass stories like Natalie Hallawhatshername.

And yea.. CNN and MSNBC are just as bad... especially Keith Oberman. That man seems to make a career WHINING about Fox News.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: BrAiN]
    #7955587 - 01/30/08 01:31 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

No.. he's the token liberal




That is exactly what I was saying by using the word "stooge".

He makes the conservative look good by comparison. It's the same phenomena whereby an attractive girl pals around with a fat chick.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


Edited by zorbman (01/30/08 01:44 PM)


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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: zorbman]
    #7955734 - 01/30/08 01:57 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

All this talk of Liberal vs Conservative is nonsense. Both news networks have only one goal: to keep you uninformed about things that matter. CNN is even more guilty than FOX, because they have a far better guise of legitimacy. FOX has abandoned that, at least.

TURN OFF YOUR TV.


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: Minstrel]
    #7955824 - 01/30/08 02:18 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Minstrel said:
All this talk of Liberal vs Conservative is nonsense.  Both news networks have only one goal:  to keep you uninformed about things that matter.  CNN is even more guilty than FOX, because they have a far better guise of legitimacy.  FOX has abandoned that, at least.

TURN OFF YOUR TV.




:congrats:


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:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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InvisibleVirus_with_Shoes
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: gluke bastid]
    #7956195 - 01/30/08 03:50 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Minstrel's right on the money with this one.:thumbup:

All these so-called "news" outlets do is divert our attention away from real issues and have us focus on Natalee Holloway or some other tripe that has no business dominating our news. When international politics is brought up it is usually in a very childish way that hardly gives a balanced perspective.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #7958050 - 01/30/08 09:51 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Thats so funny.

Conspiracy theories make me laugh.

The news agencies put out what people want to see. The vast majority of the United States population are ignorant, uninformed, and apathetic. Americans, as a whole, care more about a hot college girl who disappears w/out a trace in the Caribbean than they do about Iraq.

Its sad, but its true.

*THAT* is why they report this stuff, not because they are beholden to vast corporations to keep you ignorant. News Flash! You are not that fucking important.

If you don't think you can get a decent idea of what goes on in the world from news, you're just ignorant.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleFerris
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: Minstrel]
    #7958162 - 01/30/08 10:11 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Minstrel said:
All this talk of Liberal vs Conservative is nonsense. Both news networks have only one goal: to keep you uninformed about things that matter. CNN is even more guilty than FOX, because they have a far better guise of legitimacy. FOX has abandoned that, at least.

TURN OFF YOUR TV.




I replaced my tv permanently with the internet. TV is obsolete.


--------------------

Discuss Politics


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: Ferris]
    #7958173 - 01/30/08 10:13 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Yes, because prisonplanet.com or ihaterepublicans.com don't have any bias at all...

:flowstone:


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleFerris
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7958188 - 01/30/08 10:15 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Hey, I get my news from neutral sources and I even cross-reference my shit on occasion. I'm seriously critical of people who get their news from certain "independent" sources.


--------------------

Discuss Politics


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: Ferris]
    #7958200 - 01/30/08 10:17 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Sure, good idea.

I suggest Google News, which is not a news site on its own, but instead a compilation of other sources.

I didn't mean to attack you personally, I just hate it when people say CNN is not to be trusted, but swallow everything Alex Jones puts out hook, line, and sinker.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleFerris
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7958226 - 01/30/08 10:21 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

I like Google news too, because if I sense something's not balanced, I can move on to the next of over 1000 sources. Good stuff.


--------------------

Discuss Politics


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InvisibleVirus_with_Shoes
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7958376 - 01/30/08 10:52 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Thats so funny.

Conspiracy theories make me laugh.

The news agencies put out what people want to see. The vast majority of the United States population are ignorant, uninformed, and apathetic. Americans, as a whole, care more about a hot college girl who disappears w/out a trace in the Caribbean than they do about Iraq.

Its sad, but its true.

*THAT* is why they report this stuff, not because they are beholden to vast corporations to keep you ignorant. News Flash! You are not that fucking important.

If you don't think you can get a decent idea of what goes on in the world from news, you're just ignorant.




Wow man, way to jump to several conclusions that aren't supported by what I said. People who give others attitude and call them conspiracy theorists without full information make ME laugh.

As you yourself say, "the vast majority of the United States population are ignorant, uninformed, and apathetic." Funny, I thought that one of the media's purposes was to inform the uninformed. If they were doing their job people would be more informed about the economy, politics and international relations rather than a hot chick that disappeared in the Caribbean. I don't think it is, as you say, what people demand, it is what they are given. The culture (including the media) we are surrounded by has become very dumbed down and this has in turn dumbed down the people. You and I have a different view on this, which is fine, and I personally think you're putting the cart before the horse but there's no need to resort to calling me a conspiracy theorist.

And FYI, I find Alex Jones and his ilk to be totally full of shit as are CNN and Fox. Google News is good as is Associated Press and BBC News... always good to have multiple sources. Reading between the lines and critical thinking go a long way in this day and age.


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Edited by Virus_with_Shoes (01/30/08 11:05 PM)


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #7958471 - 01/30/08 11:11 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Americans are not dumbed down by the news media.

50% of the population probably never watches any cable news at all...

Americans are stupid because of the vast culture of ignorance that pervades this whole country. People are ignorant of politics because their moron friends have been telling them that voting doesn't matter. People are ignorant of other countries because they get their information from Hollywood movies.

The majority of the people just don't care.

But don't blame CNN for that.

Pearls before swine, and all that.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7958555 - 01/30/08 11:32 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:


The news agencies put out what people want to see. The vast majority of the United States population are ignorant, uninformed, and apathetic. Americans, as a whole, care more about a hot college girl who disappears w/out a trace in the Caribbean than they do about Iraq.





yep, like when they dance around an obvious but unmentionable solution to a problem, get two people polarized from each other but so crooked from a neutral position they can't even see neutral from where they are.


Its a charade, but its what people want. People want to feel informed, or those who watch the news do. They also seem to like blow hards dancing around issues, makes them feel smart I'd guess (like I do for calling them on it) being able to pick out the idiocy of the heads they put on. Getting two people so crazed and intellectually incestuous they probably don't realize how stupid they sound. America doesn't seem to mind, and it perpetuates the status quo.

I believe news mainly follows the passions of the populace, as do politicians. I would have to believe what we get is exactly what is desired... and it only serves to mire us in the same old problems...

where were the people debating, wait, do we really need to go to war w/ saddam (admitadly the news channels did have debates on this, thought they seemed to miss the point, from what I remember- is it worth going in even if he has some nerve gas? Who fucking cares.... He's starting to cooperate again w/ inspections and we have no evidence of wmd. Do we really need to prohibit personal choices like drugs and home mortgages for people w/ less than ideal credit? Do we really need a patriot act, oh wait, now everyone who voted for it changes their mind, yet won't do shit to repeal it...

Sure all these things are getting press now, but where were they at the time of the roll-out? In bed w/ the american public who doesn't really care to think beyond what's presented by the authority.


"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly
limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate
within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident
views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going
on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being
reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate."


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #7958559 - 01/30/08 11:33 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Funny, I thought that one of the media's purposes was to inform the uninformed.




Twenty-five years ago you'd be right. Back then the networks ran news programs as a public service. They didn't much care whether they made money or not since they only represented about 30 minutes of programming per day.

Today, with 24 hours "news" networks, the goal is to get ratings and make money. Since that is their entire reason for existing, they go for the lowest common denominator. Police chases, fires, hostage standoffs, missing pretty young white females and shiny objects. Soap opera stuff.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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InvisibleVirus_with_Shoes
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7958594 - 01/30/08 11:42 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

CNN is much better than Fox when it comes to bias so I'll give you that. Fox is blatantly White House propaganda. There were stories this year of the White House directly planting stories and you can't forget Tony Snow jumping back and forth from Fox News Correspondent to White House Press Secretary. If that isn't conflict of interest I don't know what is.

As for the ignorance argument, the news media surely does dumb people down and helps bring the discourse down to a painfully ignorant level. When all you hear about the current election is whether a candidate's middle name happens to be Hussein or whether another candidate cries or wears an American flag pin lapel rather than what they stand for, it leaves a lot to be desired.

Perhaps this is naive but I think if the news media fed Americans a little more highbrow stuff in their news it may bring the discourse up a notch but they'll probably just keep catering to the lowest common denominator.

I definitely see your point about our culture being dumb to begin with though, where the news could help us though, it utterly fails.


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Edited by Virus_with_Shoes (01/30/08 11:50 PM)


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: zorbman]
    #7958624 - 01/30/08 11:49 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:


Twenty-five years ago you'd be right. Back then the networks ran news programs as a public service. They didn't much care whether they made money or not since they only represented about 30 minutes of programming per day.




I bristle at the suggestion there was a golden age of anything, times change, human nature doesn't.

While I'm aware of the vast differences in ownership and source and presentation of our news today, and don't have any information with which to rebut you, as you grow up you hear people talking about back in the day. And I'm convinced its mostly rosy-tinted glasses when we glance back, especially when we have less involvement and are frequently more alienated from pop culture as we get older.


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InvisibleVirus_with_Shoes
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: johnm214]
    #7958655 - 01/30/08 11:54 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

I'd guess PBS is a remnant of that, largely publicly funded and is very thorough and informative.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: johnm214]
    #7958696 - 01/31/08 12:03 AM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

I bristle at the suggestion there was a golden age of anything, times change, human nature doesn't.




I never said it was a golden age. It was just better.

Quote:

don't have any information with which to rebut you




--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: zorbman]
    #7958733 - 01/31/08 12:10 AM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Probably not.

If you think the media is bad now, how about back in 1898?

Remember how the Spanish-American War stated?

I find it hard to believe that much of anything is worse now than it was previously...


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleVirus_with_Shoes
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7958758 - 01/31/08 12:20 AM (16 years, 2 days ago)

At least something exploded during the Spanish-American War. You gotta give the media credit for the Iraq War. They managed to bullshit the people into a war without so much as even a Gulf of Tonkin or Maine incident or any provocation whatsoever.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7958760 - 01/31/08 12:21 AM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

I find it hard to believe that much of anything is worse now than it was previously...




If history were a story of neverending progress we would be living in utopia by now. Things go in cycles. Lately we have been in a negative cycle when it comes to the mass media. I don't see how anyone can seriously say the mass media has generally improved over the last 25 years.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: zorbman]
    #7958796 - 01/31/08 12:35 AM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Is America today a utopia compared to Dickensian London? Or for that matter, from huddling in the dark of a cave chewing on the legbone of some carion?


I think so.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7958837 - 01/31/08 12:45 AM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Is America today a utopia compared to Dickensian London? Or for that matter, from huddling in the dark of a cave chewing on the legbone of some carion?


I think so.




There were quite a few ups and downs between those periods.
One such down cycle is known as the Dark Ages.

History is not linear.

So you actually contend the mass media has maintained or even improved over the last 25 years?


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


Edited by zorbman (01/31/08 01:14 AM)


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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: zorbman]
    #7959768 - 01/31/08 10:54 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Mass media's definitely sucked more in the past 25 years. Before that there was actually journalistic integrity such as when reporters investigated the Watergate break-in and basically got Nixon impeached. Also, let's not forget Vietnam when the news used to show a list of casualties on the nightly news and show all sorts of footage of the carnage. With the Iraq War they barely let reporters in to take footage of the war.

We're definitely in a media dark age. The media's failure to ask questions in the run-up to the Iraq War is a painful illustration of that.


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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7959800 - 01/31/08 11:04 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Or for that matter, from huddling in the dark of a cave chewing on the legbone of some carion?




Yes, but when you put it that way it actually sounds kind of fun.


--------------------
:hst:
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but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #7959929 - 01/31/08 11:53 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Virus_with_Shoes said:
Mass media's definitely sucked more in the past 25 years. Before that there was actually journalistic integrity such as when reporters investigated the Watergate break-in and basically got Nixon impeached. Also, let's not forget Vietnam when the news used to show a list of casualties on the nightly news and show all sorts of footage of the carnage. With the Iraq War they barely let reporters in to take footage of the war.





You are incredibly misinformed if you think the media was even half-way neutral on the Vietnam war. They didn't say one single bad thing about it until it had been going on for *10* years. And you are the first person I've heard suggest that the news showed lists of dead Americans every night.

Do you have a source for that?

The press was even more a government mouthpiece then than you think it is now.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleVirus_with_Shoes
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7960038 - 01/31/08 12:40 PM (16 years, 1 day ago)

You're unbelievable. First, during the height of the Vietnam War there was in fact a list of American casualties listed on the nightly news and this had the very palpable impact of bringing the horror and carnage of the war home to the American public. It was not only this list but also the images of carnage that photojournalists brought home for the world to see. This started not 10 years after the war as you ridiculously suggest but this was done as the casualties began mounting in the late 60s.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-12-31-casket-usat_x.htm

"During the Vietnam War, the image of caskets arriving at Dover became a staple of the nightly news. The phrase "Dover Test" later came to signify public tolerance, or lack of it, for mounting war casualties.

Since 1991, the media have been banned from covering the arrival of remains at Dover. The air base houses the military's largest mortuary, where bodies are prepared for burial before they are sent to the families' hometowns. "

During this current war, the media is FORBIDDEN to show our dead soldiers from coming back from the war and you're going to argue that the press was more complicit back then? That's a weak, pathetic argument.

Tell me... have you seen anything of this caliber come out of our media recently?


--------------------


Edited by Virus_with_Shoes (01/31/08 12:59 PM)


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #7960089 - 01/31/08 12:58 PM (16 years, 1 day ago)

A: That picture was 1972, *13* years after the first US involvement. I'm not denying that in the LATER years the media was critical, but they had a hands-off policy for the early 60's.

B: From the Museum of Broadcast Journalism...

Quote:



These incidents were dramatic, but far from typical of Vietnam coverage. Blood and gore were rarely shown. A bit less than a quarter of film reports from Vietnam showed images of the dead or wounded, most of these fleeting and not particularly graphic. Network concerns about audience sensibilities combined with the inaccessibility of much of the worst of the suffering to keep a good deal of the "horror of war" off the screen. The violence in news reports often involved little more than puffs of smoke in the distance, as aircraft bombed the unseen enemy. Only during the 1968 Tet and 1972 Spring offensives, when the war came into urban areas, did its suffering and destruction appear with any regularity on TV.

For the first few years of the living room war most of the coverage was upbeat. It typically began with a battlefield roundup, written from wire reports based on the daily press briefing in Saigon--the "Five O'Clock Follies," as journalists called it--read by the anchor and illustrated with a battle map. These reports had a World War II feel to them--journalists no less than generals are prone to "fighting the last war"--with fronts and "big victories" and a strong sense of progress and energy.




--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7960116 - 01/31/08 01:07 PM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Sound familiar?


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleVirus_with_Shoes
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7960127 - 01/31/08 01:11 PM (16 years, 1 day ago)

When the involvement began in 1959 it was largely a CIA operation with "military advisers" being the majority of the relatively small presence in Vietnam. So yes, technically it was 13 years after the first American military touched down in the country but American involvement didn't really become significant until March 1965 when the first American Marines were deployed, which really began the ground war.

This is when the casualties really picked up as you can imagine. Thus as the NTM website states, during the 1968 Tet Offensive suffering and destruction began to appear with regularity - 3 years after the beginning of the ground war not 13.


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InvisibleVirus_with_Shoes
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7960181 - 01/31/08 01:28 PM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
A: That picture was 1972, *13* years after the first US involvement. I'm not denying that in the LATER years the media was critical, but they had a hands-off policy for the early 60's.





Exactly, they had a hands-off policy before the ground war and US casualties began mounting.


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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7960182 - 01/31/08 01:28 PM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
A: That picture was 1972, *13* years after the first US involvement. I'm not denying that in the LATER years the media was critical, but they had a hands-off policy for the early 60's.





They got their gore in there ... all taken by USA photographers during the 60's in south vietnam

1963 photo:



1965 (notice a dead soldier on the cover of LIFE back in 65)



1966:




1968 photo:


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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: BrAiN]
    #7960189 - 01/31/08 01:30 PM (16 years, 1 day ago)

The defence rests.


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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #7960368 - 01/31/08 02:13 PM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Why do I see the accusation "Youre ignorant!" becoming the new "Youre racist!" sometime in the near future?


--------------------
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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: HighHat]
    #7960588 - 01/31/08 03:01 PM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

HighHat said:
Why do I see the accusation "Youre ignorant!" becoming the new "Youre racist!" sometime in the near future?




Let's not forget "You're brainwashed." Everything old is new again. Why do young people think that they have suddenly become some evolutionary marvel that transcended all previous generations in either virtue or deviousness or discernment? Childhood's End was fiction. Word to you babies; You didn't invent the blowjob.


--------------------


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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7960616 - 01/31/08 03:06 PM (16 years, 1 day ago)

For political discussions - "You're a conspiracy whacko/stupid liberal/redneck/Bush follower/ignorant sheeple."

Hooray let's call each other names and not actually debate the issues! Woohoo!


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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7960699 - 01/31/08 03:30 PM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:

Let's not forget "You're brainwashed." Everything old is new again. Why do young people think that they have suddenly become some evolutionary marvel that transcended all previous generations in either virtue or deviousness or discernment?




Can it, Grandpa.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: zorbman]
    #7960853 - 01/31/08 04:12 PM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

zorbman said:
Quote:

I bristle at the suggestion there was a golden age of anything, times change, human nature doesn't.




I never said it was a golden age. It was just better.

Quote:

don't have any information with which to rebut you







well yeah, I don't wish to claim I'm talking from an educated viewpoint, but it doesn't matter. Your argument, that things are different now in terms of news quality, has the burden of proof.


If anything, their are competing mediums to the traditional newspaper and TV/radio w/ the internet. Now a story ignored by the press can be covered online. If people aren't informed now its is far more of their own fault. And the competition from online sources would seem to suggest the main media providers ignore stories or viewpoints covered online at their peril.

Still, TV is a passive endeavor, something the web is hard to be, so maybe those watching the TV for any old story aren't really the same that are trawling the web for news or a specific topic- thus making the TV audience less critical.

I for one don't have a TV in my house, but then I'm poor so its easy to be self-righteous when I couldn't afford a $60/a month cable bill w/out comprimising other things I value more.


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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: johnm214]
    #7960885 - 01/31/08 04:22 PM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Your argument, that things are different now in terms of news quality, has the burden of proof.

I think it is self-evident to anyone of a certain age over the past 25 years. Even the media itself will admit news quality has diminished recently. Just look at the media panels on CSPAN where the media critiques its own coverage from time to time. They routinely talk of their stories being pushed aside in favor of celebrity gossip and fluff.

I can go on about this at length but it really is a no-brainer.


--------------------
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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: zorbman]
    #7961325 - 01/31/08 06:00 PM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Nope, they just get caught more


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7961335 - 01/31/08 06:02 PM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:

Let's not forget "You're brainwashed." Everything old is new again. Why do young people think that they have suddenly become some evolutionary marvel that transcended all previous generations in either virtue or deviousness or discernment?




Can it, Grandpa.




Why don't you show me just exactly how you invented the blowjob.


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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7961600 - 01/31/08 06:55 PM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Not possible. Zappa, your grandma invented the blowjob


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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: BrAiN]
    #7961620 - 01/31/08 07:00 PM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Does she take out her dentures and go to town:naughty:

How this thread has fallen from grace.  :shake:


--------------------


Edited by Virus_with_Shoes (01/31/08 07:17 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: BrAiN]
    #7961708 - 01/31/08 07:20 PM (16 years, 1 day ago)

The original is always the best. I should know.


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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7962546 - 01/31/08 10:26 PM (16 years, 1 day ago)

In my interpretation of history, in regards to the Tet offensive, the US forces literally had the North on its knees both strategically and tactically...however, there was a clear bias from the media on the how successful this engagement actually was.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #7962995 - 02/01/08 12:23 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

how so, and what do you mean by succesful?

sure we were winning all the major battles, and certainly wasting their resources and men, but then they were fighting out of their home areas, had plenty of men, and really weren't paying for the war anyways.

I think the public discontent and concern was on the body count and atrocities being commited, and perhaps the senselessness of the conflict, not on the military metrics.


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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: johnm214]
    #7966223 - 02/01/08 07:08 PM (16 years, 7 hours ago)

I believe, I was clear in stating that the US military was successful, both tactically and strategically.


I was not advocating the Vietnam war as a positive thing, since it was based on the flawed Domino Theory, but merely pointing out one historical instance, in which the media decided to cast a false light on the actual outcome of the Tet offensive.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: Ferris]
    #7966299 - 02/01/08 07:35 PM (16 years, 7 hours ago)

Quote:

Ferris said:
Quote:

Minstrel said:
All this talk of Liberal vs Conservative is nonsense. Both news networks have only one goal: to keep you uninformed about things that matter. CNN is even more guilty than FOX, because they have a far better guise of legitimacy. FOX has abandoned that, at least.

TURN OFF YOUR TV.




I replaced my tv permanently with the internet. TV is obsolete.




QFT


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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: StroFun]
    #8015766 - 02/12/08 11:48 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I know this is an old thread, but its my thread so fuck you.

I may have come across an answer to my own question. I found in David Foster Wallace's Consider The Lobster a thought Wallace has on this very subject.

It comes from a perspective I had not thought of and seems to be spot on the truth.

Quote:

HFW said:
It's hard to understand Fox News tags like "Fair and Balanced", "No -Spin Zone", and "We Report, You Decide" as anything but dark jokes, ones that delight the channel's conservative audience precisely because their claims to objectivity so totally enrage liberals, whose own literal interpretation of the taglines then makes the left seem dim, humorless, and stodgy.




Smart fellow, and I agree 100%.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Can Fox News just stop saying "Fair & Balanced?" [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8016381 - 02/13/08 05:47 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Well, it certainly didn't take you long to dive into that. You're going to like him a lot.


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