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OfflineMad Merlyn
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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: Livingston]
    #10465903 - 06/07/09 01:20 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Good Info!


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BELIEVE


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: Livingston]
    #10466584 - 06/07/09 04:12 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Yes, good info... BUT that is not why commercial cube strains are called "strains".

There is no science behind the naming of MANY if not MOST cubes.

It is a marketing ploy. Nothing more. If all vendors agreed to use the rules you have just described, you'd be on to something. They don't. New strains are marketed at the whims of the vendor.


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Fiddlesticks.



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OfflineLivingston
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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: Rose]
    #10466628 - 06/07/09 04:21 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Hi guys,

Thanks.  Yea I see that problem in the Cannabis spp. industry and most others as well (apples, tomato, etc).  Use of science and forethought is far and few between :frown:

It was my (possibly incorrect) understanding that P.cubensis strains named for their natural place of origin was common in the spore industry? (or at least at Sporeworks?)  I see many lame titles with P.cubensis just as with Cannabis spp., and that's too bad.

And thanks Cervantes, your work in this thread is top notch! :smile:


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Peace and Pasta :mushroom2:


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: Livingston]
    #10466687 - 06/07/09 04:32 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Thank you.

My love for Sporeworks and how they operate verges on bias. They do things right in my eyes when it comes to cube 'Strains'.

Different vendors have different approaches.


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Fiddlesticks.



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Offlinedieselkush
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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: Rose]
    #10469885 - 06/08/09 08:48 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

hey, ive got about 6 texan cakes im fruiting right now. I let them colonize for an extra week after the jars where covered, i then dunked them for 18 hours and rolled in verm and cold shocked them. right now Ive got them in a shotgun fruiting chamber. the temps are usually 77-78f, right now im trying putting them at 72-74. the rh is 99 percent, I fae 4-5 times a day and mist lightly after every fae. ive even tryed not misted too often to let the rh drop. I give them 12 hours a day of light. anyways they are grown over the verm and knotted up real good. but still no fruits, its ben about 7 days.  is this usuall for this strain? ive never grown it and am not sure if it takes them a while to fruit. anybody know the fruiting time for these?


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: dieselkush]
    #10471594 - 06/08/09 03:06 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

They sound fine... dense shrooms like Texas tend to take a little longer. Good luck!


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Invisiblebadman
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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: Rose]
    #10472130 - 06/08/09 04:41 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Tex are long, OI kills tex in terms of speed OI the fastest fruiter ive grown.


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Offlineshroomrookie
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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: Mr. Bojangles]
    #10474780 - 06/08/09 11:36 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I have gotten regular looking shrooms on PE before BUT most of the shrooms should look like PE.  I have many, many PE Prints and am on my 10th plus generation and they continue to improve their spore dropping properties but they continue to look like the classic PE.  The general rule is 'if it doesn't look like PE then it isn't".  I will be glad to upload some photos of my latest PE's soon. And I have a multitude of PE prints.


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Offlinedieselkush
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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: shroomrookie]
    #10476368 - 06/09/09 10:28 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

alright, Im not sure if its because I cut down on the light and drop the temps for the night. but one cake has about 3 pins on it. i was starting to get freaked out, one of the cakes looks like...mycelium carpet kinda lol. i think theyll be fine..


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Invisiblemoldem
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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: dieselkush]
    #10477946 - 06/09/09 03:03 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

How do users find the particular strain they are looking for in this gigantic thread?


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: moldem]
    #10478007 - 06/09/09 03:13 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Well, if you had read the first few posts of this thread, you'd know to click on the journal icon by my avatar. :wink:

Here's the link. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/postlist.php/Journal/117267

And, the search feature is also, quite helpful. I'm not saying that to be an ass... our Search feature is way better than most website's.

Good luck.


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Fiddlesticks.



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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: moldem]
    #10481809 - 06/10/09 10:15 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moldem said:
How do users find the particular strain they are looking for in this gigantic thread?





einy meany miny moe........thats the strain Im going to grow.:rofl2:

thats what I did.:mushroomgrow:

www.ralphstersspores.com ; has dozens of cube strains to chose from.


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Invisiblemango man
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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: 13shrooms]
    #10485540 - 06/10/09 10:46 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Any tips for Mexi-cubes?


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: mango man]
    #10485604 - 06/10/09 10:59 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Don't try to smuggling it over the border...the Po-Po will capture it and send it back to Mexico...

Just kidding...Mexi, like all other Cubes, grow the same under the same parameters and substrates as other "Strains". Just grow it like how any grow-guide indicates for a P. Cubenis.

Then, you should be all bueno!

Vive La Mexicana Shrooma!
~ LogicaL Chaos ~


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: mango man]
    #10485608 - 06/10/09 11:00 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Yes.

Read the first page or so of this thread to learn something about cubes and how they all grow the same way and in the same conditions,


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Offlineapoonanor
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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: Rose]
    #10488371 - 06/11/09 01:46 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

i didn't want to get into a pissing match over the use of the term strain. a lot of people here seem to have really solid views on what they believe to be true. the term "strain" refers to a hybrid or polyhybrid (the crossing of unrelated species; ie a cube and an azure of a cube and a cyan). the reason people use the term "a cube is a cube" is that, unless you were to cross a cube with say an azure or a cyan, you still have a cubensis and nothing more. there are ways, through cultures, etc., to pass on certain phenotypic variations to further generations BUT, as soon as you take a multispore from said generation, you're right back to a generic cubensis. hence the reason people buy PE spores and complain "they look like every other cube". unless you start with a culture or a tissue sample, those phenotypic traits don't transfer or transfer on a MUCH less reliable basis.


Edited by apoonanor (06/11/09 01:46 PM)


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OfflineLivingston
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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: apoonanor]
    #10488497 - 06/11/09 02:06 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Hey,

No worries.  No one is in a pissing match.  You are welcome to your beliefs...

BTW, did you see my response to your first post? 
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10465699#10465699


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Peace and Pasta :mushroom2:


Edited by Livingston (06/11/09 02:08 PM)


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OfflineLivingston
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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: Livingston]
    #10488533 - 06/11/09 02:10 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Oh yea,

There is a good discussion between RR, myself and anther good shroomerite about strains of P.cubensis species.  You might enjoy reading it too, good points all around in that thread:

Methods of fruiting isolates:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10465704/page/5/fpart/1


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: apoonanor]
    #10489567 - 06/11/09 04:54 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

It is hard to have a pissing contest on a computer... the keyboard gets too wet. :smile:

I do however, disagree with almost everything you have said in your last post apoon... no hard feelings.

Now I am going to explain why I disagree... not to piss on you or anyone else, but rather to further this discussion.

Feel free to disagree with me.

Quote:

apoonanor said:
The term "strain" refers to a hybrid or polyhybrid (the crossing of unrelated species; ie a cube and an azure of a cube and a cyan).




No it doesn't.

Is the commercial use of the term "Cube strain" misleading? You bet it is... but not for the reasons you have proposed.

Look at this endless thread and see how the VAST MAJORITY of people use the term 'strain'. To my knowledge you are the only one in the history of this thread who has talked in depth about crossing cubes w/ any other type of fungus. Why would anybody else use the term as you have just suggested when they CLEARLY aren't interested in crossing shrooms? They just want to use a word, in this case "Strain" to differentiate between different 'brands' of cubes.

Plenty of potheads use and grow cubes... and they try to use the same terminology when talking about shrooms as they use when they talk about weed. They simply don't realize they are talking about apples and oranges.

There isn't a cube vendor around who uses the term "Cube strain" for the reasons you have suggested. Why? 'cause no vendors sell 'strains' like you have described. In the world of commercial cubes,  "Strain" means "Hey, this cube is different from all the other cubes we sell." People buy spores from vendors and call them 'strains' 'cause that is what the vendors who sold the spores call them.

This is really pretty simple.

It would be very difficult at this point to get people to use a different term, even though 'strain' is sometimes misleading.

Quote:


the reason people use the term "a cube is a cube" is that, unless you were to cross a cube with say an azure or a cyan, you still have a cubensis and nothing more. there are ways, through cultures, etc., to pass on certain phenotypic variations to further generations BUT, as soon as you take a multispore from said generation, you're right back to a generic cubensis.




No, people say, "A cube is a cube" because cubes ARE cubes. They all grow the same way and they all make you trip with roughly the same intensity. It is hard to mistake a cube for anything but another cube.

A cube is a cube. Alcohol is alcohol and weed is weed. Yes there will be slight differences if you try a different 'brand' but you won't easily mistake alcohol for cubes.


Quote:

hence the reason people buy PE spores and complain "they look like every other cube". unless you start with a culture or a tissue sample, those phenotypic traits don't transfer or transfer on a MUCH less reliable basis.




It is rare that a PE looks like anything but a penis. Yes it does happen but not frequently. Many of those cases may be due to MISLABELED spores.


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Offlineapoonanor
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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: Rose]
    #10490684 - 06/11/09 08:02 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

just a few things (and i want to make clear, i'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to make it make sense to me). just because people misuse the word "strain" doesn't really make it right for educated people to continue to do so. IMHO, it continues the confusion. i think the biggest misconception comes from people being unable to distinguish phenotypical/genotypical traits and a true hybrid or "strain". a TRUE hybrid or "strain" (which let's be brutally honest here, a TRUE "strain" comes from crossing 2 unrelated species, the word "strain" is another word for cultivar, cross, or hybrid). things like penis envy's penis shape or redboy's red spore print are phenotypic/genotypic traits. this doesn't constitute a new strain/species/hybrid. it is still a cubensis. unless you venture out and find a way to cross UNRELATED species, you are still dealing with a cubensis (though there may be different phenotypic/genotypic variations). the main difference here between cannabis and fungus is that we consider there to be three different species of cannabis which can all be bred together to create new strains/hybrids:
1. Cannabis sativa L. f. ruderalis
2. Cannabis sativa L. subsp. indica
3. Cannabis sativa L. subsp. sativa 
(though modern science has yet to accept this fact)
all modern hybrids/strains come from a recombination and stabilization of these three species. at least based on what little experience i have with fungi genetics, combining unrelated species is impossible (or near impossible).

"It is rare that a PE looks like anything but a penis. Yes it does happen but not frequently. Many of those cases may be due to MISLABELED spores. "

this is true in a sense and isn't true in a sense. there are dozens of cases here where people bought say PE,redboy, or say an albino "strain" and were sorely dissappointed to find out that from a multispore inoculation, the final product didn't look AT ALL like what was advertised, it looked like every other cube . then, all the vets start in with "what do you expect, it's a cube grown from a multispore". NOW, if PE were a TRUE hybrid/strain/species they would ALWAYS look the same way. even in pot breeding, it's not a hybrid until it has been stabilized and can breed true for a specific set of traits. otherwise, there are just phenotypic/genotypic variations. unless of course i am COMPETELY incorrect (which i'm not ruling out yet) it's more of a nomenclature issue.


Edited by apoonanor (06/11/09 08:16 PM)


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