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OfflineLivingston
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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: flyinj3000]
    #10398442 - 05/25/09 08:35 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Hi,

After reading many of RK's posts it seems he thinks Transkei is one of the stronger cubensis.  I know people say they are all the same but please just humor me.

Would you say PE or Transkei is stronger?  And PE is originally from South America correct?  Thanks!


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OfflineLivingston
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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: Rose]
    #10398607 - 05/25/09 09:03 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Hi,

Thanks.  Yea I knew it was subjective.  I think RK has tried both.  He speaks very highly of Transkei.  But Ralphsters is no longer selling it and Hawkseye is out of stock.

The reason I ask about PE's linage is I am considering making a cross between the two.  I want to use the most genetically different spores as possible to increase the chance of unique cross phenotypes. 

Crossing unrelated genes is always the most interesting.  Given that PE is supposed to be 'stable' (inbred filial #4,#5,#6?) and Transkei still needs microscopy 'work' (according to Ralphsters), the two should make a great cross.  That and they are from two different sides of the world :smile:

For my first breeding project I'm going to South Carolina next month with a kind shroomery member who offered to show me around.  If I find quality species I will bring it inside and work with it.  I want to see a South Carolina strain at our sponsors.  But after that I want to make a cross, and I am thinking either [Transkei x PE] or [Transkei x Texas] or [Transkei x Venezuela].

Any thoughts you have I would like to hear.  Thanks.


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Peace and Pasta :mushroom2:


Edited by Livingston (05/25/09 09:48 PM)


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OfflineLivingston
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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: apoonanor]
    #10465699 - 06/07/09 12:34 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

apoonanor said:
The term "Strain" when describing cubensis probably comes from weed. Weed DOES come in different strains, so the term was used to market shrooms to hippies familiar with the lingo.




I disagree.  A strain in terms of intraspecies terminology is a different land-race.  That is, P.cubensis from Amazon will be a different strain than one from Ecuador (for example).  They will not have the same geno-type, or pheno-type, so they are different intraspecies strains...the same goes for Cannabis spp. with caveats (see below).

If one was to breed say a PE and SA together they would have a intraspecies cross.  If one was to breed two different species of Psilocybe spp. (ex. P.cubensis x P.azurescens) that person would be making a intergenus hybrid.  A interspecies cross could be called a strain once it reaches the F4-F6 stage and is pretty homogeneous phenotypes.

A strain title is a designation for that geno-type/area of origin, not all P.cubensis are the same strain, though they are the same species.

Humans are the same species but black and white people are different races (eg. strains to mycology).

In terms of genus Cannabis spp. there are three species:
1. Cannabis sativa L. f. ruderalis
2. Cannabis sativa L. subsp. indica
3. Cannabis sativa L. subsp. sativa

Ruderalis is not used in general.  Breeding 'indica' to 'indica' or 'sativa' to 'sativa' gives one a cross, not a hybrid.  That is a misnomer often found in the Cannabis spp. world.  Within each species of Cannabis spp. there are many "land-race" strains, those which are pure and only inbreed.  Those land-races are the original strains of Cannabis species.  Just like I described for P.cubensis.  Breeding strains of Cannabis 'sativa' to Cannabis 'indica' produces a intergenus hybrid....just like breeding P.azuras (sp?) and P.cubensis would provide an intergenus hybrid.



I hope that helps clear some things up. :smile:


Here are some examples of the use of "strain" and "species" in mycology.  There are countless more examples online:


"Strain improvement in the cultivated mushroom Agaricus bisporus"

-T. J. Elliott and F. A. Langton

Quote:

Summary  Early attempts at genetic improvement in the cultivated mushroom Agaricus bisporus (Lange) Imbach were empirical, for little was understood of its natural breeding system. The mushroom is now known to be a secondarily homothallic species with a single multiallelic mating-type factor. This better understanding makes it possible to evaluate those breeding methods previously used and to suggest alternatives.
Strain selection alone based on single spores, multispores or tissue culture may give improvement in the short term but it is unlikely to be as effective as methods involving controlled crossing. Mixing fertile strains may produce hybrids but it is difficult to identify them. It is better to use non-fertile isolates because only hybrids fruit. The earlier recognition of hybrids can be achieved using markers which are expressed in culture and genetic resistances may be especially useful in this respect.
There is also a possible role for other Agaricus species which may be grown commercially and are more amenable to genetic manipulation than is A. bisporus.





"Taxonomic analysis of species and strains of oyster mushrooms Pleurotus (Fr.) Kumm. (Mycota, Basidiomycetes, Agaricales s. l.) collected at the Chair of Mycology and Algology, Moscow University. 1. Morphological peculiarities of Pleurotus species in vitro and in vivo."
-Garibova, L. V., Zav'yalova, L. A., Insarova, I. D., Komarov, V. B., Lekomtseva, S. N., Chaika, M. N.

Quote:

Abstract:
The morphological and cultural features of 6 species and 20 strains of Pleurotus mushrooms of different origin in the collection of the Chair of Mycology and Algology at Moscow University were studied. The species and strains differ in 4 parameters, namely structure of the aerial mycelium, zonality, colour, and diameter of colonies. Cluster analysis using the bootstrap showed that most strains of P. ostreatus formed a group with a high degree of similarity, including the Russian and foreign varieties of the oyster mushroom (Don 103, Don 112, Zommer and Florida) well known among the producer as well as strains of unknown origin. Individual groups were formed by 2 strains of P. ostreatus (from Germany and Saratov). The American strain US ME was found to be rather similar morphologically to P. pulmonarius and P. dryinus. The Far East strain DV 12 and unknown-origin strain KSH 52 proved to have characteristics similar to P. calyptratus. At the same time, the study identified some unrelated strains and species of the oyster mushroom: a strain from Baku, wild isolate of P. ostreatus, and the species P. eryngii. The main parameters playing an essential role in the fruitage of xylotrophic basidiomycetes (temperature, humidity and pH) were identified. The morphological features of basidia obtained in vitro in 6 species and 2 varieties of Pleurotus were studied in terms of 11 taxonomically significant morphological characters used to identify species in this subgroup. It was shown that, in vitro and in vivo, the shape of a cap, the colour of its cuticle, and the colour of the spore powder can be considered to be the most stable morphological characters of the Pleurotus species that have been studied. The results of the study demonstrate that the species diversity of xylotrophic basidiomycetes (micromycetes) can be preserved in a pure culture with subsequent reproduction of basidia, while preserving all the basic morphological characters of the species.





"Growing gourmet and medicinal mushrooms"
-Paul Stamets

See Chapter 14: "Evaluating a Mushroom Strain"


"CULTURES: A Select Library of In Vitro Strains"
-Paul Stamets

Quote:

The strains represented here are unique. Some are rare, not being available from culture libraries in North America, and potentially high yielding. We are constantly working with these strains, screening and maintaining cell lines. Fungi Perfecti is releasing the following strains for use on a conditional basis.

By purchasing these cultures, the customer agrees to the following terms. The purchaser is authorized by Fungi Perfecti to utilize our pure mushroom Spawn and Cultures for their own personal mycological experimentation, for the production of mushrooms for resale, and for the generation of additional mushroom spawn for the production of mushrooms for resale. The purchaser consents to use these strains for private use and not to generate spawn from them for resale or unauthorized distribution. Violators are subject to prosecution. The purchaser further agrees that mini-trials will be conducted prior to use in any commercial enterprise to assess their efficacy. The purchaser cannot and will not represent nor sell our strains in any form. Once shipped, Fungi Perfecti can not be responsible for the condition of any cultures. However, Fungi Perfecti will replace a culture if defective or should you lose it within one year of purchase at no additional charge.

Each strain is designated with the Stamets "P-value" scale, signifying the expansion of mycelium covering a 100 x 15mm petri dish (approximately 1,000–2,000 cell divisions). The first time a wild species is tissue cultured, the age is denoted as P-O. Thereafter each successive growth over the petri dish's surface is described in increments of P-l, etc. This library tries to maintain strains closest to their wild origins or closest to their peak fruiting potentials. Each culture comes in a 125 x 20mm glass test tube.




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Peace and Pasta :mushroom2:


Edited by Livingston (06/07/09 04:12 PM)


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OfflineLivingston
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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: Rose]
    #10466628 - 06/07/09 04:21 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Hi guys,

Thanks.  Yea I see that problem in the Cannabis spp. industry and most others as well (apples, tomato, etc).  Use of science and forethought is far and few between :frown:

It was my (possibly incorrect) understanding that P.cubensis strains named for their natural place of origin was common in the spore industry? (or at least at Sporeworks?)  I see many lame titles with P.cubensis just as with Cannabis spp., and that's too bad.

And thanks Cervantes, your work in this thread is top notch! :smile:


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OfflineLivingston
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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: apoonanor]
    #10488497 - 06/11/09 02:06 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Hey,

No worries.  No one is in a pissing match.  You are welcome to your beliefs...

BTW, did you see my response to your first post? 
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10465699#10465699


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Peace and Pasta :mushroom2:


Edited by Livingston (06/11/09 02:08 PM)


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OfflineLivingston
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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: Livingston]
    #10488533 - 06/11/09 02:10 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Oh yea,

There is a good discussion between RR, myself and anther good shroomerite about strains of P.cubensis species.  You might enjoy reading it too, good points all around in that thread:

Methods of fruiting isolates:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10465704/page/5/fpart/1


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OfflineLivingston
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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: Rose]
    #10494608 - 06/12/09 02:34 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Hey Apoon (and Cervantes),

I just wanted to post some info about the term strain and it's use in mycology.  This post is meant to put this discussion to bed.  It's like I mentioned in regards to genotype, land-race (area of origin) and on occasion as phenotype: that is how a species strain is distinguished in all manner of organisms. 

Apoon, please re-read what I wrote and the thread I linked to goes into more detail and explanations.

I like Cervantes' idea of the term "brand".  Although that refers to a title like GM or Nike, not a specific pair of Nike sneakers.  Maybe 'cultures' would be a more fitting term?  Like the Ralphsters "brand" offers many different P.cubensis "cultures" (interspecies cross like PE or B+) and also offers P.cubensis "strains" (land-race genotypes like the African or Ecuador).  Just a thought, what do you think Cervantes?



And Apoon, below is info which should help clear up your confusion, and the confusion you refer to.  I agree that educated people should do their best to dispel misinformation, this post is my last attempt to do so in this thread...
Quote:

Apoon said...just because people misuse the word "strain" doesn't really make it right for educated people to continue to do so. IMHO, it continues the confusion




"Use of molecular markers to differentiate between commercial strains of the button mushroom Agaricus bisporus"
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119020455/abstract
Quote:

Abstract
Agaricus bisporus is an edible basidiomycete cultivated industrially for food production. Different spawn and mushroom producers use genetically related A. bisporus strains frequently marketed as different products. In this paper we show that the use of suitable molecular markers reveals the high level of genetic homology of commercial strains of A. bisporus, and allows, at the same time, to distinguish between them. In the course of this work, a molecular marker potentially linked to the agronomic character 'mushroom weight' has been identified by bulked segregant analysis.





"Advances in genetic analysis and biotechnology of the cultivated button mushroom, Agaricus bisporus"
http://www.springerlink.com/content/v6512h69f7tud95m/
Quote:

Abstract:
During the last decade several major breakthroughs have been achieved in mushroom biotechnology, which greatly enhanced classical mushroom breeding. DNA-based technologies such as restriction fragment length polymorphisms and randomly amplified polydisperse DNA sequences have allowed for a measure of genetic diversity, for the isolation of homokaryons, for the determination of inheritance of nuclear and mitochondrial markers, and for the production of a genetic linkage map. The recent availability of ready-to-use and affordable DNA technologies has resulted in a substantial increase in the number of Agaricus bisporus genes that have been identified and characterized. A major breakthrough was achieved in 1996 when the first successful and stable transformation system of A. bisporus was reported. Together, the availability of an increasing number of known genes and the possibility to produce transgenic mushrooms will result in a better understanding of the molecular, physiological and biochemical processes that are essential for mushroom production, shelf life and quality aspects such as flavor, texture and disease resistance. Some potential targets for strain improvement are discussed, such as the genes involved in brown discoloration, substrate utilization, carbon and nitrogen metabolism, and fruit body development.






"Modern aspects of mushroom culture technology"
http://www.springerlink.com/content/q3m5lx9mfu942jea/
Quote:

Abstract:
The production and culture of new species of mushrooms is increasing. The breeding of new strains has significantly improved, allowing the use of strains with high yield and resistance to diseases, increasing productivity and diminishing the use of chemicals for pest control. The improvement and development of modern technologies, such as computerized control, automated mushroom harvesting, preparation of compost, production of mushrooms in a non-composted substrate, and new methods of substrate sterilization and spawn preparation, will increase the productivity of mushroom culture. All these aspects are crucial for the production of mushrooms with better flavor, appearance, texture, nutritional qualities, and medicinal properties at low cost. Mushroom culture is a biotechnological process that recycles ligninocellulosic wastes, since mushrooms are food for human consumption and the spent substrate can be used in different ways.






"Quantitative Trait Loci Controlling Vegetative Growth Rate in the Edible Basidiomycete Pleurotus ostreatus"
http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/68/3/1109
Quote:

Abstract:
Mycelium growth rate is a quantitative characteristic that exhibits continuous variation. This trait has applied interest, as growth rate is correlated with production yield and increased advantage against competitors. In this work, we studied growth rate variation in the edible basidiomycete Pleurotus ostreatus growing as monokaryotic or dikaryotic mycelium on Eger medium or on wheat straw. Our analysis resulted in identification of several genomic regions (quantitative trait loci [QTLs]) involved in the control of growth rate that can be mapped on the genetic linkage map of this fungus. In some cases monokaryotic and dikaryotic QTLs clustered at the same map position, indicating that there are principal genomic areas responsible for growth rate control. The availability of this linkage map of growth rate QTLs can help in the design of rational strain breeding programs based on genomic information.







"Use of intersimple sequence repeats markers to develop strain-specific SCAR markers for Lentinula edodes"
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/118603304/abstract
Quote:

Abstract:
Although Lentinula edodes is the second most important cultivated mushroom worldwide, most industrially cultivated strains have been identified only through traditional phenotypic analysis. Here, we report for the first time the use of sequence characterized amplified region (SCAR) markers for strain differentiation. SCAR markers were created by first generating and sequencing single intersimple sequence repeats fragments, and then designing primers based on these sequences to amplify strain-specific fragments of a certain size. One SCAR primer pair, ISL450F/R7 (amplifying a band of c. 450 bp), was designed to identify one strain of L. edodes (strain No. 7). The SCAR primer pair was then used to correctly amplify the single unique fragment from DNA samples taken from a total of 85 strains representing three separate species. Our data provide the foundation for a precise and rapid PCR-based strain-diagnostic system for L. edodes.






"Strain improvement in the cultivated mushroom Agaricus bisporus"
http://www.springerlink.com/content/v35546312w52m274/
Quote:

Abstrct:
Early attempts at genetic improvement in the cultivated mushroom Agaricus bisporus (Lange) Imbach were empirical, for little was understood of its natural breeding system. The mushroom is now known to be a secondarily homothallic species with a single multiallelic mating-type factor. This better understanding makes it possible to evaluate those breeding methods previously used and to suggest alternatives.

Strain selection alone based on single spores, multispores or tissue culture may give improvement in the short term but it is unlikely to be as effective as methods involving controlled crossing. Mixing fertile strains may produce hybrids but it is difficult to identify them. It is better to use non-fertile isolates because only hybrids fruit. The earlier recognition of hybrids can be achieved using markers which are expressed in culture and genetic resistances may be especially useful in this respect.

There is also a possible role for other Agaricus species which may be grown commercially and are more amenable to genetic manipulation than is A. bisporus.







"Strain typing of Lentinula edodes by random amplified polymorphic DNA assay"
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119249318/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
Quote:

Abstract:
AbstractSingle 10-base primers were used to generate randomly amplified polymorphic DNA (RAPD) markers in the shiitake mushroom, Lentinula edodes. Seven primers produced polymorphisms in all 15 strains tested, producing 12%u201319 bands ranging from 0.34 to 2.52 kb. Thirteen of the 15 strains had unique DNA fingerprints, whereas L. edodes ATCC 28759 and ATCC 28760 exhibited identical RAPD profiles for all the primers. Molecular-genetic markers obtained with the RAPD assay can be used to differentiate strains of L. edodes and have potential applications in mushroom breeding and strain improvement programs.






"RAPD discrimination of Agaricus bisporus mushroom cultivars"
http://www.springerlink.com/content/yhfrky4evktuemw6/
Quote:

Abstact:
Cultivars of the white button mushroom Agaricus bisporus are difficult to differentiate, which has made strain protection problematic for this crop species. We have used RAPDs to discriminate between 26 strains of A. bisporus, 24 of which were commercial cultivars, and to characterise the genetic relatedness of these strains. Using 20 primers, 211 RAPD markers were identified and used in hierarchical cluster, patristic distance and parsimony analyses. All strains could be differentiated using the aggregated primer data. Although no one primer could differentiate all 26 strains, several individual primers yielded unique fingerprints for a variety of strains. The greatest differences (up to 28% variation) were observed in comparisons with or between two wild collections of A. bisporus. Quondam cultivars, commercial brown and off-white varieties proved more variable than the widely grown 'hybrid' types. Of the 15 hybrid varieties analysed, only one differed substantially (20% or more variable). The patristic and parsimony analyses both demonstrated the gross similarity of the hybrids, many of which appear to be essentially derived varieties from two original hybrid cultivars. RAPD analyses can assist mushroom strain identification and could play a role in the protection of novel cultivars.






"Chromosomal Abnormalities Associated with Strain Degeneration in the Cultivated Mushroom,Agaricus bisporus"
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WFV-45MGYXN-6&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=4af732911b3d342c44e853ec0d554fa5
Quote:

Abstract:
Horgen, P. A, Carvalho, D., Sonnenberg, A., Li, A., and Van Griensven, L. J. L. D. 1996. Chromosomal abnormalities associated with strain degeneration in the cultivated mushroom,Agaricus bisporus. Fungal Genetics and Biology20,299%u2013241. Commercially grown strains of the button mushroom,Agaricus bisporus,on occasion produce sectors that display undesirable phenotypes. Such sectors show altered compost colonization, have reduced yield, and produce inferior quality mushrooms. The current study compared isolates of eight irreversible sectors to the original cultivator (U1) from which they arose. Gene-specific and anonymous DNA probes were used to identify RFLPs and chromosomal differences (CHEF analyses) between the U1 sectors and the normal U1 cultivar. A number of differences were noted including loss of heterozygosity at specific loci, deheterokaryotization, somatic recombination, chromosomal loss, chromosomal length polymorphisms, possible chromosomal translocations, and changes in copy number of the ribosomal DNA repeat.






"Mating-type genes for basidiomycete strain improvement in mushroom farming"
http://www.springerlink.com/content/3nwap13e6e7cud74/
Quote:

Abstract:
Mushroom production is dependent on the quality of the spawn used to inoculate the cultures. In order to produce high-quality spawn, breeding programs for strains resistant to certain diseases and able to form high-quality fruit bodies under standard growth conditions are necessary. The investigation of the molecular basis for mating provides access to the use of mating-type genes in order to facilitate breeding. For research purposes, two mushroom-forming homobasidiomycetes have been used due to their easy cultivation and sexual propagation on defined minimal media: Schizophyllum commune and Coprinus cinereus. The mating-type genes control formation of the dikaryon from two haploid strains. Only the dikaryon is fertile and able to form mushrooms under the right environmental conditions. These genes are now used in mating-type-assisted breeding programs for economically important mushrooms, especially the white button mushroom, Agaricus bisporus, and the oyster mushroom, Pleurotus ostreatus, aiming at high-yield and high-quality standard mushroom production. Most mushroom species posses two mating-type loci that control their breeding. The genes encoded in the A loci lead to the formation of transcription factors that belong to the class of homeodomain proteins. Active transcription factors are formed by heterodimerization of two proteins of different allelic specificities. In nature, this is only the case if two cells of different mating type have fused to combine the different proteins in one cytoplasm. While fusion in homobasidiomycetes is found irrespectively of mating type, exchange of nuclei between mating mycelia is dependent on the products of the B mating-type loci. The B genes form a pheromone and receptor system that enables the fungi to initiate nuclear migration. The molecular details of the two genetic systems controlling breeding in basidiomycetes are presented in this review.






"Inheritance of Strain Instability (Sectoring) in the Commercial Button Mushroom, Agaricus bisporus"
http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/60/7/2384
Quote:

Abstract:
The button mushroom, Agaricus bisporus, is a commercially important cultivated filamentous fungus. During the last decade, the button mushroom industry has depended mainly on two strains (or derivatives of these two strains). Using one of these highly successful strains (strain U1) we examined the phenomenon of strain instability, specifically, the production of irreversible sectors. Three "stromatal" and three "fluffy" sectors were compared with a healthy type U1 strain and with a wild-collected isolate. Compost colonization and fruit body morphology were examined. The main objective of this study, however, was to examine the meiotic stability of the sectored phenotype. Single basidiospores were isolated and subjected to a grain bioassay in which the ability to produce sectors was measured. Our results were as follows: (i) basidiospore cultures obtained from a wild-collected isolate showed no tendency to produce sectors; (ii) approximately 5% of the basidiospore cultures obtained from healthy type U1 strains produced irreversible sectors in the grain bioassay; (iii) the five primary sectors examined produced basidiospore cultures, half of which produced normal-looking growth in the grain bioassay and half of which produced some degree of sectoring; and (iv) the one sectored isolate that represented the F2 generation gave ratios similar to the 1:1 ratio observed for the F1 cultures.






"Genetic diversity and strain-typing in cultivated strains of Lentinula edodes (the shii-take mushroom) in Japan by AFLP analysis*"
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B7XMR-4RR979F-7&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=b9c0f391942d530bda0fe39c1152debc
Quote:

Abstract:
Amplified fragment length polymorphism (AFLP) analysis is based on selective PCR (polymerase chain reaction) amplification of genomic DNA restriction fragments. The present study was performed to: (1) assess the extent of AFLP variation among major cultivated strains of Lentinula edodes (the shii-take mushroom) in Japan; (2) evaluate the usefulness of AFLP as genetic marker for typing the cultivated strains; and (3) infer the genetic relatedness among them. Six AFLP primer pairs detected a total of 304 DNA fragments in a sample of 13 cultivated strains for wood log cultivation and 2 strains for sawdust cultivation, of which 179 DNA fragments (58.9% of detected fragments) were polymorphic between two or more strains. These polymorphic DNA fragments could differentiated all of the cultivated strains. Cluster analysis and principle coordinate analysis based on AFLP data showed two distinct groups; one group was composed of the strains in which fruiting occurred during the middle to low temperature period from autumn to next spring under outdoor wood log cultivation, and the other strains in which fruiting could be induced in the summer under outdoor cultivation and strains for sawdust cultivation under indoor air-controlled condition.





...ok last one I'm getting bored...


"Strain Improvment"
http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/whri/research/mushroomresearch/strain_improvement/
Quote:

The industry has a continuing need for new and improved varieties with well-defined characteristics. Genetic diversity is limited in Agaricus bisporus, so improvements can best be made by exploiting the diversity present in the genus Agaricusor by using molecular breeding. The R&D programme comprises three elements 1) the improvement and exploitation of transformation using both homologous and heterologous markers 2) a molecular analysis of species relatedness and 3) cloning and characterisation of genes central to development.
  • Develop and optimise transformation technologies for the Agaricus bisporus and related mushrooms

  • Characterise breeding systems, genetic diversity and inter-species relationships within the genus Agaricus to (i) identify potential for direct cultivation of alternative species and (ii) to provide sources of novel variation for introgression into A. bisporus

  • Identify key genes involved in mushroom morphogenesis with a view to controlling fruit body development





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OfflineLivingston
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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: apoonanor]
    #10494826 - 06/12/09 03:12 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Hey Apoon,

Quote:

at least based on what little experience i have with fungi genetics, combining unrelated species is impossible (or near impossible)




Not at all.  Search for venomized agar.  Like I wrote a few pages back, I have some on order from Sigma, just like RR did.  And I plan to make an intergenus HYBRID (no, it's not a "cross").

This topic is way too advanced for this thread but if you search you'll find what you are looking for. 

I would download the Aloha Medicinals article (PDF) describing how they did it, they were the first.  RR copied their methodology and so will I when I make a few intergenus hybrids this year.


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Edited by Livingston (06/12/09 03:13 PM)


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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: CubeCult]
    #10542954 - 06/20/09 02:06 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Hey Cervantes,

I have been thinking about the Trinomial nomenclature that is most appropriate for use with mushrooms...let me know what you think:

Brand = The spore vendor/breeder; ie. Ralphsters brand of PE.

Variety[1] = Hybrid or cross; ie. PE, B+, etc.

Subvariety[2] = A division of a Variety; ie. a cross like APE or a distinct and stable phenotype like an albino expression.

Subspecies[3] = A land-race genotype (or area of origin) which is stable ("true breeding") and interbred (eg. a "race"[4]); ie. P.cubensis Transkei (African).


[1] Variety: (botanical term)
http://www.answers.com/topic/variety-botany
Quote:

In botanical nomenclature, variety is a taxonomic rank below that of species: As such, it gets a ternary name (a name in three parts).

A variety will have an appearance distinct from other varieties, but will hybridize freely with those other varieties (if brought into contact). Usually varieties will be geographically separate from each other.

Example: The pincushion cactus, Escobaria vivipara (Nutt.) Buxb., is a wide-ranging variable species occurring from Canada to Mexico, and found throughout New Mexico below about 2600 m. Nine varieties have been described. Where the varieties of the pincushion cactus meet, they intergrade. The variety Escobaria vivipara var. arizonica is from Arizona, while Escobaria vivipara var. neo-mexicana is from New Mexico.





[2] Subvariety:
http://www.answers.com/topic/subvariety-1
Quote:

A subordinate variety, or a division of a variety.





[3] Subspecies:
http://www.answers.com/topic/subspecies
Quote:

A taxonomic subdivision of a species consisting of an interbreeding, usually geographically isolated population of organisms.





[4] Race:
Quote:

In biology, a race is any inbreeding group, including taxonomic subgroups such as subspecies, taxonomically subordinate to a species and superordinate to a subrace and marked by a pre-determined profile of latent factors of hereditary traits.

Examples of race include:

  • The Key lime and the Mexican lime, both of species Citrus x aurantifolia. The Mexican lime has a thicker skin and darker green color.

  • The African Wildcat (Felis silvestris lybicus) and the domestic cat (Felis silvestris catus).

  • The Western honey bee is divided into several honey bee races





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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: Livingston]
    #10542978 - 06/20/09 02:11 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Hey again Cervantes,

I haven't had time to read all your new info you posted but I will soon.  I'm looking forward it :smile:


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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: apoonanor]
    #10553088 - 06/22/09 11:21 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Hey guys,

Thanks I'm glad we are all in agreement...now we just have to make everyone else use our nomenclature...good luck to us with that!  (maybe after Cervantes changes his profiles people will start using the proper terms, that would be great!)


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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: Rose]
    #10554744 - 06/22/09 04:36 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

hey bro,

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Quote:

Livingston said:
Hey guys,

Thanks I'm glad we are all in agreement...now we just have to make everyone else use our nomenclature...good luck to us with that!  (maybe after Cervantes changes his profiles people will start using the proper terms, that would be great!)




I made a few changes to my profiles, but didn't misuse the term very often at all (I may have missed one or two... that fucker's long, and with all the links and stuff, it is becoming a nightmare to edit). However, there are a number of quotes from others and I have left those as they were originally written.




Great!

Quote:

Cervantes said:
If RogerRabbit and Paul Stamets use the word 'Strain' when describing a different cube race... the usage of the word is very wide spread.




Yea that's too bad because they are misusing the term big time.  For example most people here consider each spore from a print of B+ to be a sub-strain (or each mating of hyphae upon fruit formation to be the sub-strain).  But RR doesn't agree with Pauls' use of the strain and visa verse it seems.  But I think we have it right...

Thanks :smile:


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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: Livingston]
    #10554804 - 06/22/09 04:46 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Hey again Cervantes,

I forgot to list how our Trinomial nomenclature could work:


Variety = var.

ex. P.cubensis var. PE



Subvariety = subvar.

ex. P.cubensis var. PE subvar. APE



Race = r.

ex. P.cubensis r. Transkei


Combos:

ex. P.cubensis r. Transkei var. AT (Albino-Transkei)

ex. P.cubensis r. Transkei var. AT subvar. ATS (Albino-Transkei-Sporeless)


Does that make sense?


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Edited by Livingston (06/22/09 04:53 PM)


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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: george castanza]
    #10559914 - 06/23/09 03:14 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Sounds good to me. I've been working on updating the FAQ section of my 'Strain' journal today, and I borrowed much of what you said. :wink:


 

Thanks that is a nice compliment :smile:  Nice monologue!  I have a few notes on it but overall I think it's great.


Quote:

Cervantes said:
Cubes, like humans come from all over the world... and there can be some variety from one region to another.




Did you mean to use the word "variety"?  Or was it just a word you happen to use?  I ask because the use of variety in that sense is different than Variety in the sense of nomenclature.  Maybe something like this would be less confusing?:

"...and there can be some genetic or physical differences from one region to another."



Quote:

Cervantes said:
These unique cubes can be selectively bread until these unique traits become common, even via multispore inoculation.




bread = bred :wink:




Quote:

Cervantes said:Although, I came up with a slightly different way to use 'Variety'.

Let me know if I got it right:

...

Since all this 'Variety' and 'Sub-Variety' talk can get very confusing, go ahead and use 'Race' if you prefer. There are racial differences between mushrooms, often due to natural selection based upon where they first grew... and sometimes varietal differences due to unnatural selection performed by mycologists.




A few thoughts I had last night:

We might want to use the term Race with caution.  We are working on the knowledge that there will be genetic variations between Races.  But we have no data to prove it.  So to cover out butts maybe using Race for the continent from whence the strain comes and for island strains is most appropriate.  I am thinking it is easier to argue that *all* strains from one continent are a Race then to argue that *each* strain from isolated areas of one continent are each a Race (even though the latter is most likely true, we just can't *prove* it).


Here is what I was thinking about.  Please let my know your opinion.  I hope we are not getting to confusing for people...

Race:

(for continents)
P.cubensis r. South Africian var. Transkei

P.cubensis r. South American var. Venezuelan
P.cubensis r. South American var. Ecuador

P.cubensis r. North American var. Mexican
P.cubensis r. North American var. Texas

(for islands)
P.cubensis r. Puerto Rico
P.cubensis r. Cuba


Variety: (same as before)

P.cubensis var. B+
P.cubensis var. PE
(PE could be a Race as it's from South America but it's been so heavily inbred and outbred it might be best labeling it a Variety.  What do you think?)


SubVariety: (same as before)

P.cubensis var. PE subvar. APE


Quote:

Cervantes said:In general, every single commercially available cubensis RACE, is actually a domesticated VARIETY of the original specimen. Domesticated cubes contain intentionally limited genetics in order to increase the likelyhood of achieving the desired results, sort of like dog domestication and subsequent breeding.





--------------------------
EDIT: I misunderstood your meaning.  I thought you were saying that all strains sold by vendors were a Race.  My bad.  Correct me if I'm wrong but were saying that of the strains offered at a vendor, those which are a Race are really a domesticated Variety of the specimen (e.g. Race)?
--------------------------

You have the correct line of reasoning but it sounds like you mixed the terms up.  I could be wrong but how does my version of your sentence sound:

"In general, every single commercially available cubensis 'STRAIN', is actually a domesticated VARIETY of the original specimen which is usually a Race."


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Edited by Livingston (06/23/09 03:27 PM)


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Re: Strain Discussion Thread-HERE ONLY! [Re: Rose]
    #10559997 - 06/23/09 03:29 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Cool.  Sounds great to me.

I think your efforts are not in vain.  Give it a few weeks and I bet people will start using more correct terms.  And I thank you for that!  You are right that to gain more respect our community needs to start using the correct verbiage and terms.  Thanks man, you are a great resource here!

And did you notice what I edited in my last post?

EDIT: I misunderstood your meaning.  I thought you were saying that all strains sold by vendors were a Race.  My bad.  Correct me if I'm wrong but were saying that of the strains offered at a vendor, those which are a Race are really a domesticated Variety of the specimen (e.g. Race)?

Thanks bro :smile:


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