|
bodynotdead
TrichodermaCultivator



Registered: 05/10/07
Posts: 271
Loc: U.S.A
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
|
Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave'
#7952036 - 01/29/08 07:00 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
|
|
Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' 28th January 2008 - dailymail.co.uk
 A mother went on trial yesterday accused of killing her month-old daughter by cooking her in a microwave oven while drunk.
Police investigators and scientists are expected to give evidence in the sensational case against 27-year-old China Arnold.
Arnold pleaded not guilty to a charge of aggravated murder at the beginning of her trial in Dayton, Ohio, yesterday.
If convicted by the jury in Montgomery County Common Pleas Court, she could face the death penalty.
Investigators believe that Arnold killed her daughter, Paris Talley, by putting her in a microwave at her home in August 2005 while she was drunk.
Coroner's officials say the baby suffered high-heat internal injuries and had no external burns.
They have ruled out scalding water, open flame or other possible causes of death that could have damaged the skin.
Arnold's defence lawyer Jon Paul Rion claims his client had nothing to do with her daughter's death and was stunned when investigators told her that a microwave might have been involved.
Arnold took the baby to the hospital after finding her unconscious and does not know how she died, Rion said.
During a pre-trial hearing in July, Dayton police Detective Michael Galbraith said Arnold told him she arrived home in the early morning hours after drinking, fell asleep and was awakened at 2:30 a.m. by the baby's crying.
She said she warmed a bottle in the microwave oven, tried to give it to the baby, changed the child's nappy and then fell asleep on the couch with the baby on her chest.
Arnold said she and her children were the only ones in the apartment until her boyfriend arrived several hours later and noticed something was wrong with the baby.
Galbraith said Arnold told him: "If I hadn't gotten so drunk, I guess my baby wouldn't have died."
But when cross-examined by Rion, Galbraith acknowledged that Arnold told him she didn't know how the baby suffered the burns and that she had nothing to do with it that she could recall.
Earlier this month, defence witness Robert Belloto, a staff pharmacist at Good Samaritan Hospital, testified that he doesn't believe it would have been possible for Arnold to place the baby in the microwave because the woman was so intoxicated.
Belloto said Arnold told him she had consumed about 40 percent of a pint of high-proof rum in 90 minutes.
But he acknowledged that he had no other corroboration for her claim.
-------------------- "absolute power corrupts absolutely". Lord Acton,
|
PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: bodynotdead]
#7952061 - 01/29/08 07:05 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
|
|

What is the philosophical or spiritual spin on this....?
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
|
Spiritual Seeker
Nothing Matters



Registered: 05/12/07
Posts: 507
Loc: UK
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: bodynotdead]
#7952064 - 01/29/08 07:07 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
|
|
Intense....wonder what happened
-------------------- "Nothing in the world is a gift. Whatever there is to learn has to be learned the hard way." -Don juan
|
JonnyDeformed
ॐ



Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 1,809
Loc: Directlyundertheearthssun...
Last seen: 10 years, 2 days
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: Spiritual Seeker]
#7952106 - 01/29/08 07:16 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
|
|
Coroner's sick joke.
--------------------
dubiousness Dubious compound it is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong. A penalty for possession of a drug/plant should not be more damaging than the drug/plant itself.
|
bodynotdead
TrichodermaCultivator



Registered: 05/10/07
Posts: 271
Loc: U.S.A
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: PhanTomCat]
#7952108 - 01/29/08 07:16 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
|
|
It has a ethics spin.
-------------------- "absolute power corrupts absolutely". Lord Acton,
|
PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: bodynotdead]
#7952129 - 01/29/08 07:19 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
|
|
So the question is, is it ethical to microwave your child....?
Or......(?)
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: PhanTomCat]
#7952414 - 01/29/08 08:04 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
|
|
The point is: the mom is in the clear because she was drunk and the baby had a tag attached that read: 'MICROWAVE SAFE'.
Now if Gordons added some beer batter...
--------------------
|
JackTheBear
Pick Me I'm Clean



Registered: 09/27/07
Posts: 130
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7952459 - 01/29/08 08:09 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
|
|
Half a pint of rum in an hour and a half is too intoxicated to operate household applainces?
I call shenanigans on Belloto.
|
PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7952487 - 01/29/08 08:13 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Now if Gordons added some beer batter...
But, then you would have to deep fry the baby - to cook it proper....! Might go good with some baby carrots and miniature corn on the side.... 
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
|
Coaster
Baʿal



Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 33,501
Loc: Deep in the Valley
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: PhanTomCat]
#7952570 - 01/29/08 08:21 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
|
|
ok so she was drunk and nuked her baby if she was on shrooms they would be like see thats why shrooms need to be illegal, but nope they dont blame the alcohol here but if it was anything else they would have
--------------------
|
AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist



Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: Coaster]
#7952591 - 01/29/08 08:24 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Coaster said: ok so she was drunk and nuked her baby if she was on shrooms they would be like see thats why shrooms need to be illegal, but nope they dont blame the alcohol here but if it was anything else they would have
i'm pretty sure about that too. blaming alcohol would get no state support at all.
--------------------
|
Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' (moved) [Re: bodynotdead]
#7952760 - 01/29/08 08:48 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
|
|
This thread was moved from Philosophy & Spirituality.
Reason: This has nothing to do with P&S.
|
Cancer
la Nebulosa del cangrejo



Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 384
Loc: under da C
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: Coaster]
#7952815 - 01/29/08 08:57 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Coaster said: ok so she was drunk and nuked her baby if she was on shrooms they would be like see thats why shrooms need to be illegal, but nope they dont blame the alcohol here but if it was anything else they would have
I concur.
|
StonedShroom
OG shroomerite



Registered: 10/21/00
Posts: 10,876
Last seen: 6 months, 30 days
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: bodynotdead]
#7952818 - 01/29/08 08:57 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
|
|
that's awful
-------------------- We are not human beings going through a temporary spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings going through a temporary human experience.
|
g00ru
lit pants tit licker



Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
Loc: georgia, us
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: Cancer]
#7952825 - 01/29/08 08:59 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
|
|
This is sick.
I don't wanna hear shit like this lol.
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
|
Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman



Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: g00ru]
#7952858 - 01/29/08 09:03 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
|
|
If you're going to fry your baby, hide the evidence. Seriously though, this is deeply disturbing to me and I'm ice cold when it comes to these matters.
-------------------- Discuss Politics
|
Noviseer
Percussion isFree



Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 3,994
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: Ferris]
#7953129 - 01/29/08 09:45 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Ferris said: Seriously though, this is deeply disturbing to me and I'm ice cold when it comes to these matters.
Definitely--I think its the fact pretty much anyone can nuke a cat or dog or baby with the flick of a finger. Its so cheap and clinical, and has got to be one of the most horrendous ways to suffer and die a sentient being is likely to ever have to endure. Just terrible
-------------------- _______________________________________________________________ namaste said: no flamz in da ODD, if you got nothing to contribute then keep yo lips zipped _________________________________________________________________
|
Smackshadow
It's Time for Wild Speculation


Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 575
Last seen: 19 days, 10 hours
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: Noviseer]
#7953431 - 01/29/08 10:29 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
|
|
Ya thats pretty messed up.
-------------------- The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all. ~H. L. Mencken~
|
kit_kat
Vixen



Registered: 01/05/06
Posts: 249
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: Smackshadow]
#7953529 - 01/29/08 10:42 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
|
|
holy shit... that's too sick...
--------------------
|
Mocha Bear
BHP



Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 831
Loc: Mississippi
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: kit_kat]
#7953586 - 01/29/08 10:53 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
|
|
that's ridiculous
-------------------- The love you take is equal to the love you make....
|
fapjack
Title



Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 16,574
Loc: Central New Jersey
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: bodynotdead]
#7953645 - 01/29/08 11:02 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
|
|
Based on how stupid the mother is, I think our gene pool is probably better off.
--------------------
|
Robo
R Series 66Y
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 14,861
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: bodynotdead]
#7953670 - 01/29/08 11:05 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
|
|
Fucked. Up. That is all.
|
Seansquatch
Stranger


Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 55
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: Mocha Bear]
#7953754 - 01/29/08 11:17 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
|
|
LMAO wow sucks for the dead baby.
-------------------- Giant Getto Smirf!
|
Robo
R Series 66Y
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 14,861
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: Seansquatch]
#7953757 - 01/29/08 11:18 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Seansquatch said: LMAO
Laughing your ass off? What the fuck is wrong with you man?
|
Entropymancer


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 10,207
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: Seansquatch]
#7953767 - 01/29/08 11:20 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Seansquatch said: LMAO wow sucks for the dead baby.
Poor taste, man. Dead baby humor is only funny if it doesn't involve any actual dead babies. Especially babies that died in a microwave with its insides boiling.
|
Sheepish



Registered: 04/02/02
Posts: 10,137
Loc: Exile
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: bodynotdead]
#7954167 - 01/30/08 12:51 AM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
|
|
BAN ALCOHOL!
Note: This is sarcasm. I just usually see comments about the scourge of drugs whenever something like this happens when someone is on any drug but alcohol.
Edited by Sheepish (01/30/08 12:52 AM)
|
ohmatic
searcher



Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 6,742
Loc: europe
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: Sheepish]
#7954354 - 01/30/08 02:13 AM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
|
|
if she did it, iopt for her spending some time in a microwave ..
--------------------
MONOTUB tek HEATBOMB tek RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !
|
future
Stranger
Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 408
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: Cancer]
#7954506 - 01/30/08 04:57 AM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
mycroscope said:
Quote:
Coaster said: ok so she was drunk and nuked her baby if she was on shrooms they would be like see thats why shrooms need to be illegal, but nope they dont blame the alcohol here but if it was anything else they would have
I concur.
damn right
-------------------- I am the fakest person on this site. I only pretend to grow and consume illegal mushrooms. I have no knowledge what so ever on any scheduled substance because I know and respect the governing law in the United States of America. All pictures and dialogue posted by me is entirley copyrighted from those who wish to knowingly ignore the laws. I only post these messages as a mere propaganda technique used to gain attention and admiration from others. Thank You
|
Individual
Bass Addict


Registered: 12/20/06
Posts: 6,666
Loc: Reality Loophole
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: future]
#7954555 - 01/30/08 05:52 AM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
|
|
Maybe it was her boyfriend who put the kid in the microwave while she was passed out. Or maybe not. Pretty fucked up shit anyway.
-------------------- THE PHILOSOPHY OF LIBERTY <---
|
rizingfire
Mycoticus psychoticus




Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 875
Loc: North-east USm'f'nA
Last seen: 4 months, 11 days
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: Mocha Bear]
#7954593 - 01/30/08 06:24 AM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
|
|
c'mon guys it's a womans right to choose, a month earlier and it would just be an abortion, what's the difference, not like it was a functioning member of society? lol it's a joke, I am really not that liberal...
-------------------- aka NHMI
|
UnholyChild666
I'M GOD

Registered: 03/26/06
Posts: 8,940
Loc:
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: bodynotdead]
#7954668 - 01/30/08 07:21 AM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
|
|
I used to have to do "volunteer" work at the apartments where that bitch lived, they have bored up most of them now, the parkside apartments are nothing more than one big shit hole and this is a view of the kind of people that place was infested with. There are still some people that live there but that was a big place to go buy crack, H and stuff. I'm glad to see the place being tore down. As far as her being too drunk to have done it I say bullshit, if she had done it as soon as the alcohol hit her then took out, then passed out maybe. I guess it is possible her kids did it because she was passed out and they were tired out hearing the baby crying who knows I wouldn't put it past either situation. What ever happened the mother should still be charged with the babies death because it is her responsibility so whether she physically did it or not she is still guilty.
--------------------
"I am the Highest Power the leader of the pack" Actiavte My Dream Sequence Machine GOD of the hologram earth
|
CMACD
The Sto)))ve


Registered: 02/01/07
Posts: 813
Loc: too scared
Last seen: 9 months, 7 days
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: Mocha Bear]
#7955204 - 01/30/08 11:41 AM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
|
|
I think it is pretty elite that she did that. A truly superior human being...
Sorry.
|
xshadowmage666x
*opiate enthusiast*


Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 3,047
Loc: Right Here, Right Now
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: Mocha Bear]
#7955402 - 01/30/08 12:45 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
|
|
they should nuke the fucking mother if you ask me. sick cunt
--------------------
"It is the prayer of my innermost being to realize my supreme identity in the liberated play of consciousness, the Vast Expanse. Now is the moment, Here is the place of Liberation. " -alex grey
|
xshadowmage666x
*opiate enthusiast*


Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 3,047
Loc: Right Here, Right Now
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: Mocha Bear]
#7955415 - 01/30/08 12:50 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
|
|
they should nuke the fucking mother if you ask me. sick cunt
--------------------
"It is the prayer of my innermost being to realize my supreme identity in the liberated play of consciousness, the Vast Expanse. Now is the moment, Here is the place of Liberation. " -alex grey
|
myshoesarered
Mushabelly Snoozem



Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 377
Loc: The Mitt
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: Cancer]
#7955436 - 01/30/08 12:57 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
mycroscope said:
Quote:
Coaster said: ok so she was drunk and nuked her baby if she was on shrooms they would be like see thats why shrooms need to be illegal, but nope they dont blame the alcohol here but if it was anything else they would have
I concur.
I also concur
-------------------- "What a beautiful face I have found in this place that is circling all round the sun, and when we meet on a cloud I'll be laughing out loud, I'll be laughing at everyone I see, Can't believe, how strange it is to be anything at all..." "...nobody has yet died of amazement & you always come back to planet Earth..."
|
xshadowmage666x
*opiate enthusiast*


Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 3,047
Loc: Right Here, Right Now
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: JackTheBear]
#7955447 - 01/30/08 01:00 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
JackTheBear said: Half a pint of rum in an hour and a half is too intoxicated to operate household applainces?
I call shenanigans on Belloto.
you called it. i could have smashed 2 pints and still walked straight this bitch is done for....what an argument fucking stupid
--------------------
"It is the prayer of my innermost being to realize my supreme identity in the liberated play of consciousness, the Vast Expanse. Now is the moment, Here is the place of Liberation. " -alex grey
|
xshadowmage666x
*opiate enthusiast*


Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 3,047
Loc: Right Here, Right Now
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: JackTheBear]
#7955455 - 01/30/08 01:02 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
JackTheBear said: Half a pint of rum in an hour and a half is too intoxicated to operate household applainces?
I call shenanigans on Belloto.
you called it. i could have smashed 2 pints and still walked straight this bitch is done for....what an argument fucking stupid
--------------------
"It is the prayer of my innermost being to realize my supreme identity in the liberated play of consciousness, the Vast Expanse. Now is the moment, Here is the place of Liberation. " -alex grey
|
pong
kretan




Registered: 02/09/06
Posts: 4,311
Loc: west coast
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: rizingfire]
#7955472 - 01/30/08 01:05 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
|
|
its almost as bad as dropping it in a blender feet first.
|
The_Ghost
ゴースト



Registered: 03/27/07
Posts: 15,802
Loc: USG Ishimura
Last seen: 11 months, 2 days
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: pong]
#7955563 - 01/30/08 01:25 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
|
|
Another contender for Alcohol Hall of Fame.
-------------------- / / / / / / / LISTEN TO MY MUSIC: E X E D / / / / / / / The universe gives no fucks. And takes no fucks. May His Circuits Ever Function
|
baraka



Registered: 07/15/00
Posts: 10,768
Loc: hyperspace
Last seen: 2 years, 25 days
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: The_Ghost]
#7956547 - 01/30/08 04:54 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
|
|
Wow i grew up in montgomery county.
She has a "im a piece of shit baby killer" look on her face.
-------------------- This is the only time I really feel alive.
|
Jeebies


Registered: 01/23/07
Posts: 1,118
Loc: Transgenic corn&beans, USA
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: myshoesarered]
#7956694 - 01/30/08 05:20 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
myshoesarered said:
Quote:
mycroscope said:
Quote:
Coaster said: ok so she was drunk and nuked her baby if she was on shrooms they would be like see thats why shrooms need to be illegal, but nope they dont blame the alcohol here but if it was anything else they would have
I concur.
I also concur
As long as we're all concurring...I might as well say that I wish the whole world could see drugs from this perspective.
|
UnholyChild666
I'M GOD

Registered: 03/26/06
Posts: 8,940
Loc:
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: bodynotdead]
#7957641 - 01/30/08 08:17 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
|
|
This phrase just makes her look even worse
Quote:
"If I hadn't gotten so drunk, I guess my baby wouldn't have died."
you guess? great choice of words.......
--------------------
"I am the Highest Power the leader of the pack" Actiavte My Dream Sequence Machine GOD of the hologram earth
|
PeterGriffin467
Dirt Grub


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 6,647
Loc: six feet under
Last seen: 11 years, 2 days
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: JonnyDeformed]
#7957681 - 01/30/08 08:25 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
JonnyDeformed said: Coroner's sick joke.
Nice avatar, Quaaaaaaaiiiiiiid Quaaaaaaaiiiiiid
-------------------- "I just need to check inside ya asshole SIR.... Asshole clear!"
|
PeterGriffin467
Dirt Grub


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 6,647
Loc: six feet under
Last seen: 11 years, 2 days
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: PeterGriffin467]
#7957688 - 01/30/08 08:26 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
|
|
Jeebies you anywhere near rockford?
-------------------- "I just need to check inside ya asshole SIR.... Asshole clear!"
|
jjr
Green Ranger

Registered: 01/30/08
Posts: 62
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
|
Re: Mother 'killed her baby in the microwave' [Re: Mocha Bear]
#7957987 - 01/30/08 09:33 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
|
|
I almost puked thinking about that...
|
|