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Offlinefuture
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I need a math genius
    #7951087 - 01/29/08 04:05 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

any guys hanging around here thats damn good at math specifically advanced algebra?


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I am the fakest person on this site. I only pretend to grow and consume illegal mushrooms. I have no knowledge what so ever on any scheduled substance because I know and respect the governing law in the United States of America. All pictures and dialogue posted by me is entirley copyrighted from those who wish to knowingly ignore the laws. I only post these messages as a mere propaganda technique used to gain attention and admiration from others. Thank You


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: future]
    #7951092 - 01/29/08 04:07 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Depends how advanced you're talking about.

Post your question.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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InvisibleShroom Empire
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7951117 - 01/29/08 04:13 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Algebra isn't exactly considered Advanced Mathematics.


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Offlinefuture
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7951129 - 01/29/08 04:15 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

i got some huge factoring problems, that not the "isolate x on one side" type of shit.


the one that is kicking my ass is

4x - 1 - x + 3
_______ _______

2x + 5 - 3 6x + x - 2
( both 2x and 6x, the x's are squared )

Now i've gotten them down to

11x + 14x - 18
__________________

(2x - 1) (x +3) (3x + 2)

( the x in 11x is squared )

But 11x + 14 - 18 doesn't seem factorable.. or I haven't found it yet so i'm assuming i keep goofing somewhere.


Edited by future (01/29/08 04:17 PM)


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Offlinefuture
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: Shroom Empire]
    #7951133 - 01/29/08 04:15 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Shroom Empire said:
Algebra isn't exactly considered Advanced Mathematics.




hence the *advanced algebra* not advanced mathematics

and for some reason, the forum isn't letting it space out like it should

4x - 1 - x + 3

thats a 4x - 1 on one side, subtracted from a positive x +
_______ _______

2x + 5x - 3 6x + x - 2
same thing here 2x + 5 - 3 subtracted from 6x + x - 2


--------------------
I am the fakest person on this site. I only pretend to grow and consume illegal mushrooms. I have no knowledge what so ever on any scheduled substance because I know and respect the governing law in the United States of America. All pictures and dialogue posted by me is entirley copyrighted from those who wish to knowingly ignore the laws. I only post these messages as a mere propaganda technique used to gain attention and admiration from others. Thank You


Edited by future (01/29/08 04:31 PM)


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: future]
    #7951154 - 01/29/08 04:21 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

ha, I was expecting some abstract algebra or lie algebra stuff. Post that in a format that a normal human could read and I might help you.


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Offlinecoda
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: future]
    #7951165 - 01/29/08 04:23 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

FYI proper notation for a power is a carat (^) 2^2 = 4


--------------------
To get really high is to forget yourself. And to forget yourself is to see everything else. And to see everything else is to become an understanding molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the universe. And I think every human being should be a conscious tool of the universe. . . .

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i really am glad you came back to us instead of taking the other path. *hug*

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Offlinefuture
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: TheCow]
    #7951170 - 01/29/08 04:24 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

4x - 1 over 2x + 5x - 3
x + 3 over 6x + x -2 on the other side

this is subtraction, not addition

the x in 2x is squared as well as the x in 6x

if you can't understand that i'll try and find a way to get it to space out like it should have


--------------------
I am the fakest person on this site. I only pretend to grow and consume illegal mushrooms. I have no knowledge what so ever on any scheduled substance because I know and respect the governing law in the United States of America. All pictures and dialogue posted by me is entirley copyrighted from those who wish to knowingly ignore the laws. I only post these messages as a mere propaganda technique used to gain attention and admiration from others. Thank You


Edited by future (01/29/08 04:25 PM)


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Offlinefuture
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: coda]
    #7951174 - 01/29/08 04:24 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

coda said:
FYI proper notation for a power is a carat (^) 2^2 = 4




ok so 2x^ + 5 - 3 and 6x^ + x - 2

4x - 1 x + 3

_____________ _ _______________

2x^ + 5x - 3 6x^ + x - 2

forum won't let it space out but x + 3 on one side along with 6x bla bla on the other side


Edited by future (01/29/08 04:27 PM)


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Offlinecoda
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: future]
    #7951199 - 01/29/08 04:29 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

no, if im reading what you wrote right it should look like x^2 + 5 - 3 and x^6 + x - 2 (x squared plus five minus three and x to the 6th plus x minus two)

btw in the first equation can't you simplify it to x^2 + 2?


--------------------
To get really high is to forget yourself. And to forget yourself is to see everything else. And to see everything else is to become an understanding molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the universe. And I think every human being should be a conscious tool of the universe. . . .

-JG

i really am glad you came back to us instead of taking the other path. *hug*

-A_S (RIP your final words to me will never be forgotten)



Don't fuck with the laughing jesus.


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Offlinefuture
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: coda]
    #7951216 - 01/29/08 04:31 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

what'd you do with the 5? I don't see it canceling out to anything


oh i see, i left the x off the 5 in the first post.. fixed


--------------------
I am the fakest person on this site. I only pretend to grow and consume illegal mushrooms. I have no knowledge what so ever on any scheduled substance because I know and respect the governing law in the United States of America. All pictures and dialogue posted by me is entirley copyrighted from those who wish to knowingly ignore the laws. I only post these messages as a mere propaganda technique used to gain attention and admiration from others. Thank You


Edited by future (01/29/08 04:33 PM)


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Offlinecoda
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: future]
    #7951228 - 01/29/08 04:33 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

um 5 minus 3 = 2

if your equation is x^2 + 5 - 3 you can simplify it to x^2 + 2. However if your equation is supposed to read (x^2 + 5) - 3 you can't


--------------------
To get really high is to forget yourself. And to forget yourself is to see everything else. And to see everything else is to become an understanding molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the universe. And I think every human being should be a conscious tool of the universe. . . .

-JG

i really am glad you came back to us instead of taking the other path. *hug*

-A_S (RIP your final words to me will never be forgotten)



Don't fuck with the laughing jesus.


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Offlinefuture
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: coda]
    #7951240 - 01/29/08 04:34 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

coda said:
um 5 minus 3 = 2

if your equation is x^2 + 5 - 3 you can simplify it to x^2 + 2. However if your equation is supposed to read (x^2 + 5) - 3 you can't




yeah you were right, i left the x off the 5 as you can now see

shit i wish it would simplify like that.


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I am the fakest person on this site. I only pretend to grow and consume illegal mushrooms. I have no knowledge what so ever on any scheduled substance because I know and respect the governing law in the United States of America. All pictures and dialogue posted by me is entirley copyrighted from those who wish to knowingly ignore the laws. I only post these messages as a mere propaganda technique used to gain attention and admiration from others. Thank You


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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: I need a math genius [Re: coda]
    #7951280 - 01/29/08 04:43 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

coda said:if your equation is x^2 + 5 - 3 you can simplify it to x^2 + 2. However if your equation is supposed to read (x^2 + 5) - 3 you can't


Why not? Sure you can. Do you mean ((x+5)^2)-3, cause then you cant combine the 5 and -3. But (x^2 + 5)-3 does equal x^2 + 2.

edit- oh I see, its 5x. So whats the question? Or did you get it answered?


Edited by Qubit (01/29/08 04:44 PM)


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Offlinefuture
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: DieCommie]
    #7951299 - 01/29/08 04:48 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

factor it, what can you get it down to.

there is nothing in parenthesis


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I am the fakest person on this site. I only pretend to grow and consume illegal mushrooms. I have no knowledge what so ever on any scheduled substance because I know and respect the governing law in the United States of America. All pictures and dialogue posted by me is entirley copyrighted from those who wish to knowingly ignore the laws. I only post these messages as a mere propaganda technique used to gain attention and admiration from others. Thank You


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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: I need a math genius [Re: DieCommie]
    #7951308 - 01/29/08 04:50 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Ok, so I think this is what you have...

(4x-1)(x+3)/((2x^2+5x-3)(6x^2+x-2))

right?

And you are supposed to simplify? You need to factor the denominators and cancel like terms. Can you factor the denominators?


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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: I need a math genius [Re: future]
    #7951331 - 01/29/08 04:56 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

future said:
factor it, what can you get it down to.

there is nothing in parenthesis


Nothing in parenthesis?

Well if you have the fraction I posted above, it factors into ((2x-1)^2)(x+3)(3x+2). The (x+3) cancels with the one in the numerator.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: DieCommie]
    #7951341 - 01/29/08 04:58 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

This is algebra 2 stuff at most.


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Offlinefuture
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: DieCommie]
    #7951365 - 01/29/08 05:02 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

future said:
factor it, what can you get it down to.

there is nothing in parenthesis


Nothing in parenthesis?

Well if you have the fraction I posted above, it factors into ((2x-1)^2)(x+3)(3x+2). The (x+3) cancels with the one in the numerator.




seems like your on the right track but can u put that where I can see whats in the numerator and dominator so i can check it..


ie. numerator

_____________________

dominator


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I am the fakest person on this site. I only pretend to grow and consume illegal mushrooms. I have no knowledge what so ever on any scheduled substance because I know and respect the governing law in the United States of America. All pictures and dialogue posted by me is entirley copyrighted from those who wish to knowingly ignore the laws. I only post these messages as a mere propaganda technique used to gain attention and admiration from others. Thank You


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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: I need a math genius [Re: future]
    #7951383 - 01/29/08 05:05 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

(4x-1)(x+3)/((2x-1)^2)(x+3)(3x+2))


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Offlinefuture
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: DieCommie]
    #7951412 - 01/29/08 05:08 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
(4x-1)(x+3)/((2x-1)^2)(x+3)(3x+2))




your positive?


--------------------
I am the fakest person on this site. I only pretend to grow and consume illegal mushrooms. I have no knowledge what so ever on any scheduled substance because I know and respect the governing law in the United States of America. All pictures and dialogue posted by me is entirley copyrighted from those who wish to knowingly ignore the laws. I only post these messages as a mere propaganda technique used to gain attention and admiration from others. Thank You


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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: I need a math genius [Re: future]
    #7951548 - 01/29/08 05:28 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

:rolleyes:  no... why dont you check it just to make sure...

You do know the method to factor this right?  And the method to check?  If not I suggest you see your teacher during office hours for help.


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Offlinefuture
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: DieCommie]
    #7951584 - 01/29/08 05:35 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

the numerator should be different, I checked it.

You were close tho

turns out it's 11x^2 - x - 11 OVER (2x-1) (x+3) (3x+2)


--------------------
I am the fakest person on this site. I only pretend to grow and consume illegal mushrooms. I have no knowledge what so ever on any scheduled substance because I know and respect the governing law in the United States of America. All pictures and dialogue posted by me is entirley copyrighted from those who wish to knowingly ignore the laws. I only post these messages as a mere propaganda technique used to gain attention and admiration from others. Thank You


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: DieCommie]
    #7951588 - 01/29/08 05:35 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

hey I have a question for you.
suppose { = integral symbol

J(y)={x^4 * (y(x)')^2 dx
where y' is of course the derivative of y

Prove that J cannot have a local minimum in the set
S = y (element of) C2[-1,1] : y(-1)=-1 and y(1)=1
C2 is the vector space of continuous functions with 2 derivatives

Oh and you cant prove it using the euler-lagrange equation


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: DieCommie]
    #7951591 - 01/29/08 05:36 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

I have an answer I think is correct, but I was wondering if you have a different take on it that might make more sense


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Offlinefuture
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: TheCow]
    #7951612 - 01/29/08 05:43 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

the answer is irrational sinc 11x^2 - x - 11 can't be factored.


--------------------
I am the fakest person on this site. I only pretend to grow and consume illegal mushrooms. I have no knowledge what so ever on any scheduled substance because I know and respect the governing law in the United States of America. All pictures and dialogue posted by me is entirley copyrighted from those who wish to knowingly ignore the laws. I only post these messages as a mere propaganda technique used to gain attention and admiration from others. Thank You


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Offlinefuture
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: TheCow]
    #7951617 - 01/29/08 05:44 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

TheCow said:
I have an answer I think is correct, but I was wondering if you have a different take on it that might make more sense




that stuffs beyond me lol


--------------------
I am the fakest person on this site. I only pretend to grow and consume illegal mushrooms. I have no knowledge what so ever on any scheduled substance because I know and respect the governing law in the United States of America. All pictures and dialogue posted by me is entirley copyrighted from those who wish to knowingly ignore the laws. I only post these messages as a mere propaganda technique used to gain attention and admiration from others. Thank You


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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: I need a math genius [Re: TheCow]
    #7951719 - 01/29/08 06:07 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

TheCow said:
hey I have a question for you.
suppose { = integral symbol

J(y)={x^4 * (y(x)')^2 dx
where y' is of course the derivative of y

Prove that J cannot have a local minimum in the set
S = y (element of) C2[-1,1] : y(-1)=-1 and y(1)=1
C2 is the vector space of continuous functions with 2 derivatives

Oh and you cant prove it using the euler-lagrange equation




Ha, you think I can understand your graduate level shit?  You are way beyond me in skills.  Is this for your calculus of variations class? 

I honestly have had a real hard time in post-calculus/diff. eq. maths.  Proof writing, as well as all that orthogonal function stuff is very difficult for me. 

From freshman calculus to find a local min, you do the first and second derivative tests.  I tried something like that for this but it was an epic fail.  :sith:


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: DieCommie]
    #7951730 - 01/29/08 06:10 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Yea its for variational calculus. But I'm supposed to solve it without using variational calculus. So I thought you might have an insight if you'd taken any upper division math classes that have proofs and whatnot. I'm pretty bad at proofs also, and don't know nearly enough pure math. Not sure why I'm taking a class offered by the math department, horrible idea in hindsight


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Offlinefuture
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: TheCow]
    #7951741 - 01/29/08 06:13 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

welcome to college :rolleyes:


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I am the fakest person on this site. I only pretend to grow and consume illegal mushrooms. I have no knowledge what so ever on any scheduled substance because I know and respect the governing law in the United States of America. All pictures and dialogue posted by me is entirley copyrighted from those who wish to knowingly ignore the laws. I only post these messages as a mere propaganda technique used to gain attention and admiration from others. Thank You


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Re: I need a math genius [Re: future]
    #7951931 - 01/29/08 06:43 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

The cow's shit is way more difficult than yours.

BTW Cartesian coordinates suck. Polar coordinates rock!!!!


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InvisibleFerris
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: trepanib]
    #7951947 - 01/29/08 06:45 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

trepanib said:
BTW Cartesian coordinates suck. Polar coordinates rock!!!!




Only if you're doing 3 dimensional vectors ya godamn elitist :smirk:


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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: I need a math genius [Re: trepanib]
    #7952050 - 01/29/08 07:02 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

trepanib said:
The cow's shit is way more difficult than yours.

BTW Cartesian coordinates suck. Polar coordinates rock!!!!


  Cylindrical or spherical?

How about Oblate spheroidal coordinate system?  I dont know when I would want to use it, but I had to construct it for a project last semester.  :nerd:


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OfflineKarmatron
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: TheCow]
    #7952143 - 01/29/08 07:22 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

TheCow said:
hey I have a question for you.
suppose { = integral symbol

J(y)={x^4 * (y(x)')^2 dx
where y' is of course the derivative of y

Prove that J cannot have a local minimum in the set
S = y (element of) C2[-1,1] : y(-1)=-1 and y(1)=1
C2 is the vector space of continuous functions with 2 derivatives

Oh and you cant prove it using the euler-lagrange equation




First guess: use the Cauchy-Reimann equations taking the partial derivatives of J(y), show they're nonzero on the interval... you're done? May have to take the total derivative of J first and then manipulate into a convenient expression, too lazy to check that.

Oh, I guess you would also have to exclude the edges from being "local minima" either by checking them or just stating that you exclude them, but your interval is closed so that might not be valid...


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: Karmatron]
    #7952175 - 01/29/08 07:29 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Why would the Cauchy equations apply here? I only remember that from complex analysis. Well basically my proof goes sort of as follows. I can show that to be a minimum y' would have to equal 0, therefore y is a constant. This violates the boundary conditions, so the only possibility would be a piecewise function. However since the initial boundary condition is negative, and the ending is positive that means there was a jump somewhere on the interval. This means that the function is not a C2 function. However looking over my proof, I dont quite remember how I found that y has to be a constant, and my scribble notes where I first derived this are hard to read.


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OfflineKarmatron
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: TheCow]
    #7952325 - 01/29/08 07:52 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Well, if y(x) were a constant over the interval, then y'(x) would be zero, making the entire integral zero over the interval, correct?

Cauchy Riemann would apply to real valued functions since it applies to complex, you just get the "real valued" parts only(the "u functions, none of the "v" functions if you know what i mean). It basically means that Laplace's eq's are satisfied over the interval, which may not be valid... I'm used to them being valid because they always are in physics...


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: Karmatron]
    #7952380 - 01/29/08 08:00 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Yes the integral would be zero, that is how im deriving that y' is 0. Basically I have J(y) and J(y_hat) where y_hat=y + epsilon*n where n is some function on C2. Assume J(y) is the minimum and J(y_hat) is the minimum except you added a small amount as is shown above. If I take the taylor expansion of J(y_hat) and subtract it from J(y) I end up with an integral plus O(epsilon^2) i.e I only expanded it out to first derivatives. Therefore we want the difference to equal 0 which would mean that the integral of n*df/dy' should be 0. To do this y' would be 0. Therefore y is a constant.

I doubt thats readable at all, but its hard to explain this on a forum. I still dont see what you mean with Laplaces equation or the Cauchy equations. Ive used both, however I dont see how itd be applied here really. Can you explain what you mean more?


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: Karmatron]
    #7952385 - 01/29/08 08:00 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

I don't know much about math, everything I've retained comes from making bitchin graph art on my TI-82.

Every time I learned a new concept in calc or trig I would get excited because now my art would have exciting new dimensions.


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OfflineKarmatron
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: Karmatron]
    #7952388 - 01/29/08 08:01 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

But doesn't J(y) have to be zero in both the x and y axes for it to have a max/min/saddle? That's my motivation for using Cauchy/Laplace. Then you could use the boundaries to calc the integral directly at the edges.


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: TheCow]
    #7952398 - 01/29/08 08:02 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Since I have limits x1, and x2 however it seems that y' could be something other then 0. For instance it seems like itd be possible to have a function other then 0 that when the limits are applied the integral would equal 0.


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OfflineKarmatron
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: Karmatron]
    #7952403 - 01/29/08 08:02 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Your answer sounds like it's on the right track.


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: Karmatron]
    #7952410 - 01/29/08 08:03 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

The minimum is just a minimum of y. Y is a functional. So we want basically the y that gives the minimum integral effectively. Since you seem to like physics, the analogue here is say you are calculating the Lagrangian. You have a function of x, y', and y. So you have to figure out what the function y is.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: TheCow]
    #7952460 - 01/29/08 08:09 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

TheCow said:
Since I have limits x1, and x2 however it seems that y' could be something other then 0. For instance it seems like itd be possible to have a function other then 0 that when the limits are applied the integral would equal 0.




yes but you have to consider the fact that the lazuli 3{2_$2} equation (where Y'' is a derivative of itself) makes any standard interpretation of y' to be defunct, as now when limits x1 and x2 are applied its inverse ( (3y''{2_#2))^-1 ) it's value can only be equal to the number....

42!!!!!


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OfflineKarmatron
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Re: I need a math genius [Re: TheCow]
    #7952479 - 01/29/08 08:11 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

I dig it. You're not supposed to use variational methods? I can't think of any other way than to evaluate the partial derivatives... i'd have to look in my textbook to help you more than that, sorry!


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