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Invisiblelandsnorkler


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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: Hotnuts]
    #8012541 - 02/12/08 09:29 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

cortinarius does sound pretty good.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: Hotnuts]
    #8012798 - 02/12/08 10:50 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

> I'm still thinking Cortinarius.

That would explain the viscid pileus, blueish colors and spore ornamentation.


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OfflineSubbedhunter420
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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #8012974 - 02/12/08 11:47 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Its a possibility for cortinarius. Ive never heard of them bruise blue though. Only purple and other colors... seems they're used for dye.

Although they tend to disappear with age, all cortinarius have a veil. Not even on the young ones was there any sign of a veil.
It has also been noted that they grow under conifers but I found them in a completely deciduous forest. No conifers grow in this area unless planted. It also states the smell and taste is mild but not to me. It was stinking out of my cabinet when they were drying!
also, the colors are still off.

Here is a picture of the Cortinarius Oregonensis. From Roger's Mushrooms

Now heres mine again.

gRR... i still think we need to keep researching. Im also sending a sample to Workman today so He'll be inspecting it in a week.


Edited by Subbedhunter420 (02/12/08 11:53 AM)


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Invisiblelandsnorkler


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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: Subbedhunter420]
    #8012989 - 02/12/08 11:52 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

damn, those look pretty similar. It is strange though that your mushrooms didn't have any cortina remnants on them. That is one thing I almost always see on cortinarius.


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OfflineSubbedhunter420
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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: landsnorkler]
    #8013001 - 02/12/08 11:56 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I dont think theyre corts. yeah i never saw a cortina/annulus of any kind.
...Then again I definitely am not a mushroom EXPERT!:crazy:


Edited by Subbedhunter420 (02/12/08 12:00 PM)


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Invisiblelandsnorkler


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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: Subbedhunter420]
    #8013011 - 02/12/08 12:00 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

They are like five mushroom genus' rolled into one.


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OfflineHotnuts
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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: landsnorkler]
    #8013025 - 02/12/08 12:04 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

The colors of those mushrooms aren't the same as the ones in his new book. That's why I ignored those for a comparison. In his book they are a perfect match. There are many reasons for the color diversity of a species.

With the exception of being found in a deciduous area, all signs point to C. oregonensis. Knowing the size of the spores would be a real plus for sure.


Edited by Hotnuts (02/12/08 12:06 PM)


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Invisiblelandsnorkler


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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: Hotnuts]
    #8013047 - 02/12/08 12:12 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Hotnuts said:
The colors of those mushrooms aren't the same as the ones in his new book. That's why I ignored those for a comparison. In his book they are a perfect match. There are many reasons for the color diversity of a species.

With the exception of being found in a deciduous area, all signs point to C. oregonensis. Knowing the size of the spores would be a real plus for sure.




But there are no cortina remnants on any of subbed's specimens.


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OfflineHotnuts
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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: landsnorkler]
    #8013129 - 02/12/08 12:28 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)






But there are no cortina remnants on any of subbed's specimens.




Prolly too old or just hard to see. I could be dead wrong too. :hehehe:


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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: landsnorkler]
    #8013160 - 02/12/08 12:34 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Hotnuts, that is a good consideration as well. However, I expect Cortinarius spores to be slightly more rust coloured, to have remnants of a partial veil, and to smell mild.

Hebeloma can smell very strong!


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: Subbedhunter420]
    #8013172 - 02/12/08 12:38 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Subbedhunter420 said:
Its a possibility for cortinarius. Ive never heard of them bruise blue though. Only purple and other colors... seems they're used for dye.





They don't bruise blue, but many species of Cortinarius have blue and purple shades.

Quote:

Although they tend to disappear with age, all cortinarius have a veil. Not even on the young ones was there any sign of a veil.




I can see veil remnants on the cap margin in the first picture.






Quote:

It has also been noted that they grow under conifers but I found them in a completely deciduous forest.




Many species of Cortinarius grow in deciduous forest.

Quote:

It also states the smell and taste is mild but not to me. It was stinking out of my cabinet when they were drying!




Many species of Cortinarius have exactly that radish-like smell.


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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: Hotnuts]
    #8013179 - 02/12/08 12:39 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Hotnuts said:





But there are no cortina remnants on any of subbed's specimens.




Prolly too old or just hard to see. I could be dead wrong too. :hehehe:




Not too old... you can see on the younger specimens, that there is no sign of any partial veil, and it looks like subbed did a good job picking them and handling them gently, because i don't see any scuff marks where a cortina or partial veil would be, so he couldn't have accidentally destroyed that feature.

It is possible that some Cortinarius species do not have a partial veil, despite the genus name (though I am not a Cortinarius expert, so I may be dead wrong).  I mean, look at Psilocybe.  Apparently named after psilocin/psilocybin, yet there are many inactive species within the genus (though, it looks like they may be split from there and put into Kuehneromyces, Galerina, or something..)


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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: CureCat]
    #8013202 - 02/12/08 12:44 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Hey subbed, how tough were these?? All Agrocybe I've found have been extremely tough, to the point that they barely shatter when kicked.
I know you didn't kick them, but based on how they felt...


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Invisiblelandsnorkler


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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: CureCat]
    #8013285 - 02/12/08 01:12 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Was it really rainy before these were found? Heavy prolonged rain could wash off cortina remnants.


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InvisiblegeorgeM
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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: CureCat]
    #8013311 - 02/12/08 01:19 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Many Cortinarius species require a hand lens to detect remnants of the cortina.

With regard to host trees, a bit of promiscuity is not unheard of with some mycorrhizal species.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: CureCat]
    #8013318 - 02/12/08 01:21 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

> Apparently named after psilocin/psilocybin, yet there are many inactive species within the genus

Actually psilocybin and psilocin are named after the genus - Psilocybe has been around since 1871, but psilocybin was not isolated until 1959 by Albert Hoffman.

Psilocybe means "bald head" in Greek, the genus was named that due to the smooth cap surface and lack of other interesting features.

> Was it really rainy before these were found? Heavy prolonged rain could wash off cortina remnants.

I think the rusty stains on the stem are cortina remnants.


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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #8013332 - 02/12/08 01:27 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Good to know alan. I wasn't sure which way it went. So that was a bad example.

I simply need to learn latin better. I don't know what the hell these names mean, aside from how the species relate to one another.


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Invisiblelandsnorkler


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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: CureCat]
    #8013359 - 02/12/08 01:38 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

>I think the rusty stains on the stem are cortina remnants

Yep, I went back and looked. They do appear to be remnants. Well, I'm pretty convinced, macroscopically speaking, that they are cortinarius. If they are cortinarius that would mean they didn't bruise blue, but just had some bluish coloration to them, correct? Thus eliminating psilocybin from the equation?


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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: landsnorkler]
    #8013386 - 02/12/08 01:51 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

>If they are cortinarius that would mean they didn't bruise blue, but
>just had some bluish coloration to them, correct? Thus eliminating
>psilocybin from the equation?

Maybe, but not certainly.


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InvisiblegeorgeM
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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: landsnorkler]
    #8013389 - 02/12/08 01:57 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

If KOH is available perhaps applying a bit would be helpful as a large number of cortinarius species will exhibit a reaction. This is best performed with fresh specimens however it can still work after a few days.

Subbed hunter: you said these things smelled badly... could you describe that smell?


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