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OfflineSubbedhunter420
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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #7955194 - 01/30/08 11:36 AM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Ok heres some updates on pics.





Anything else I can help with?


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OfflineJair
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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: Subbedhunter420]
    #7955910 - 01/30/08 02:40 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

I am gonna go with CC on this. They look very similar to the poison pie Hebeloma (or something similar).

Edit: Not saying it is the poison pie, but poison pie have a print color that is brown to a pale rust, a sticky cap, common in the West, and grow through May in California.

source: National Audubon Society


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Edited by Jair (01/30/08 02:46 PM)


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OfflineSubbedhunter420
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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: Jair]
    #7956477 - 01/30/08 04:45 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Do poison pies have a distinct smell upoin picking? are they known to turn blue?

also, can cobweb form under the tissue and cause bluing? Ive never heard of such a thing before. Ive heard of it graying.


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InvisibleGGreatOne234
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Re: So cal active (not a pluteus) w/ more pics [Re: Subbedhunter420]
    #7956554 - 01/30/08 04:55 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

subbedhunter,

if you find them again make radial sections from a button and also from a mature specimen. vertically cut straight down the middle of the mushroom (from the center of the cap down through the center of the stem slicing it in half) to get a better idea of how the gills are attached. also to see if the stems are hollow and whatnot. many people might call that a "cross section" but that could very well be a inaccurate term. a cross section is cut horizontally and a radial section is cut vertically.

anyways, obviously look at the spore shape (and measure the size of them if possible) under a microscope

they do not really *look* to be psychoactive to me, but just looking at them is not always a very scientific approach to figuring that out. the bluing reaction observed is obviously enough to warrant that a good possiblity.

looking at this photograph:



it looks slightly odd to me. the "bluish" coloration is on the surface of the pileus, but there is a section that appears to have been eaten by bugs, and it shows a meaty white flesh which does not appear to be bluing at all from what i can see.. does it?

and i certainly would not recommend anyone doing a bioassay on those, yet.

alan noted that he can see blue on the base of the stems, but i cannot see it in your photographs for certain. if you say you see blue for certain then that is enough. but is the flesh of the fruitbody bluing or is it the mycelium at the base of the stem bluing? do you see bluing anywhere else on the mushroom?

for capturing that type of blue in a image use natural light (not too bright and not too dark) and a red colored backround.


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InvisibleGGreatOne234
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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: Subbedhunter420]
    #7956576 - 01/30/08 04:59 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

the best way to smell a mushroom is to break a little piece of the cap off and crush it in your fingers and then smell. do the same thing with the stem and compare.

here is a link that describes a few of the various descriptions for fungi smells and flavor: http://www.mushroomexpert.com/odortaste.html


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OfflineSubbedhunter420
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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: GGreatOne234]
    #7956628 - 01/30/08 05:07 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

well, the mushrooms are starting to being the early-middle stage of drying and im pissed I could not get better photos. Thats the thing though! this bluing is subtle. its on the cap, yes, its was also on the flesh of the stem and more of a green but when I look at the stems now theyve turned a darker colored brown/rust and I cannot see it anymore due to it.

The caps still maintain their bluing and I noticed the skin when I cut it never blued. only the outer layers of skin.

also the stem is not hollow but solid through and the gills are attached to the stem.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: Subbedhunter420]
    #7993992 - 02/07/08 09:17 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Here are some pics of the spores, 1000x.

They are slightly rough (minutely ornamented) and have a germ pore.





Pleurocystidia, 400x, crush mount:









Cheilocystidia, 100x, strange tree-like thing:



Cheilocystidia, 400x:





Basidium 400x:



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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #7994029 - 02/07/08 09:27 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Hmm, those cheilocystidia look kinda funny, like they're ornamented at the tip.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #7994068 - 02/07/08 09:40 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

The dried cap has one part that is a little bit blue. Its a light blue, almost sky blue. The place where it is blue is damaged, but I can't tell if it is just blue or it turns blue when damaged. There were some black spots as well.

When I rehydrated the cap with 70% isopropanol I noticed a pretty strong radish odor.

My guess is that it is a Hebeloma due to the smell, form of the fruiting body, cystidia, and slightly roughened spores.

I decided they don't really have a germ pore, the little thing at the end of the spores is the hilar appendage (where they attach to the basidium).

I had Hessler's unpublished monograph on Hebeloma a couple months ago, but I gave it back without copying it.


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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #7994162 - 02/07/08 10:07 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

just did a quick search. There arn't any known blueing hebelomas are there?


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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: landsnorkler]
    #7994260 - 02/07/08 10:38 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

>There arn't any known blueing hebelomas are there?

Not that I am aware of. But sometimes mycologists have a way of leaving out what they consider "insignificant" details... So the question would be best asked of a Hebeloma expert.


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OfflineSubbedhunter420
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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: CureCat]
    #7994590 - 02/08/08 12:27 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

where the hell do we get a hebeloma expert?


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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: Subbedhunter420]
    #7994627 - 02/08/08 12:48 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

:lol:


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OfflineSubbedhunter420
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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: CureCat]
    #7994631 - 02/08/08 12:50 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

why are you laughing? :rolleyes:


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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: Subbedhunter420]
    #7994642 - 02/08/08 12:56 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

It just sounded funny...

I do not know who the current authority on the genus Hebeloma is. Maybe Alan knows. If not, I'll ask Else Vellinga or Tom Bruns if they know who the pro is when I see them tomorrow. In fact, since Hebeloma are mycorrhizal, and the Bruns Lab focuses on the mycorrhizal fungi, they might have actually done work on the genus at some point.


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Edited by CureCat (02/08/08 01:06 AM)


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Offlineimplee
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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #7994820 - 02/08/08 03:02 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Alls i see is micro penors


The second and third from the last have a few other micro penors.


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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: implee]
    #7995155 - 02/08/08 08:02 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

....

Not helpful.  :bored:


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Offlinexmush
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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: CureCat]
    #7995390 - 02/08/08 09:20 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

CureCat said:
....

Not helpful.  :bored:




But super funny :rofl:


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OfflineSubbedhunter420
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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: xmush]
    #7995761 - 02/08/08 10:50 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

lol yeah im laughing.

anyways though... Im gonna go to the beach today and jam like a hippie but if you need me to do any research or more hunting ill gladly.
If you can find some people who know hebelomas ill be impressed. Good luck alan and CC!


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Possible So cal active (pluteus?) [Re: Subbedhunter420]
    #7995825 - 02/08/08 11:10 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I recommend you email the pics in this thread to Joe Ammirati (cort [at] u.washington.edu)

He is a really cool guy and really knows his Cortinariaceae.


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