Home | Community | Message Board

MRCA Tyroler Gluckspilze
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1
Offlinestraasha
Grandfaloon


Registered: 11/01/06
Posts: 117
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Soutable post for philosophy and psychology forum.
    #7945896 - 01/28/08 03:48 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

AUDITORY ATTENTION ALLOWS SELECTIVE LISTENING

Because of attention it is hard to do two tasks at the same time, especially if they rely on the same mechanisms. We easily can listen to music and drive at the same time but find iy hard to listen to two conversations at once...
...The cocktail party phenomenon, so called by the British psychologist E.C. Cherry (1953), refers to the ability focus on a single conversation in the midst of a chaotic cocktail party...
...Cherry developed selective listening studies to examine this aspect of attention. He used a technique called shadowing, in which a participant is presented with two messages in each ear at the same time through headphones. The person is asked to attend to one message and "shadow" it by repeating it out loud. In this situation, the subject will usually notice the unattended message but will have no idea about the content of the message

SELECTIVE ATTENTION CAN OPERATE AT MULTIPLE STAGES OF PROCESSING

Psychologist Donald Broadbend (1958) developed the filter theory to eplain selctive-listening findings. He assumed that we have a limited capacity for sensory information and thus screen incoming information, only letting in the most important. In this model, attention is like a gate we open for important informationand close for information we wish to ignore. But can we really close the gate for irrelevant information? When and where is the gate closed?

Broadbent's filtyer theory is an example of early selection, which is the theory that we can choose what information to attend to even before we process their basic features at an early stage so that they never get processed.

However some studies revealed that "unattended" visual information is processed to at least some extent. Late selection theories of visual attention were proposed to account for these findings. Such theories assume that we take sensory information, process it, and then select which aspects of the stimuli should be attended. The attention stage occurs when the perception enters our conscious awareness. Several studies of selective listening found that although the subjects couldn't repeat an unattended message, he or she still processed its contents. Fascinating studies by psychologist Donald G McKay showed that if the unattended message is relevant, we automatically (italics added by me) use the information. For instance, subjects attended to the phrase "they threw stones at the bank yesterday", while at the same time either ear was presented with one of two words "river" or "money". Afterward, subjects could not report which of these words they heard; however, if they had been presented with "river" they interpreted the sentence to mean that someone had thrown stones at a river bank. If they had been presented with the word "money" they interpreted this sentence to mean someone had thrown stones at a financial institution. Thus they extracted meaning from the word even though they were not aware of it...
... Most modern theories of attention suggest that selective attention can operate at multiple stages of perceptual processing. A variety of studies have shown that the processing of attended stimuli is enhanced relative to that of unattended stimuli, but that unattended stimuli are still processed" Psychological Science: mind, brain and behavior, Gazzaniga and Heatherton, 2002

When i read this i felt an overwhelming visceral urge to write a concise paragraph on the implications of this, philosophical or not... would you like to do the same?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
Re: Soutable post for philosophy and psychology forum. [Re: straasha]
    #7946027 - 01/28/08 04:17 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

yes
it is very garbled.
I think I need to re-explain it altogether in a much simpler fashion:

to focus attention on one subset of multiple signals the mind becomes attuned, or more resonant with the subset of incoming signals that correspond with the interesting matter. this is a trained or yoked or conditioned interest that enhances resonance with a particular pattern by using feedback.

the writer references filtering as if everything else is excluded.
this is plain wrong.
the fact that uninteresting signals are coming anyway in proves this.
eg. "river" or "money" are received, but the other sentence is received with resonance or feedback due to conditioned interest.

to accommodate the results, the writer (and his whole college of experts) tries to propose several stages or levels of processing. this is wrong.

only one kind of processing exists, associative processing.

due to conditioning, interest or feedback is leveraged which enhances some of the signals.

these signals are remixed with unenhanced signals into memory -

the test was then applied to what the person remembered, and no big surprises emerged.

That said, there really is a kind of enhancing filter that does exist which is usually ignored:
the cerebellum is especially well constructed to emit signals are any regular timing, this is yoked or engaged to help learn and execute complex physical movements, but it is also resoponsible for mental calesthenics like focussing on frequencies, and intervals and cadences.

usually the cerebellum and its relevance to timing and cadence is completely ignored while trying to find something much more complicated in the cerebrum or basal ganglia.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineprankster
the twin
Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 96
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: Soutable post for philosophy and psychology forum. [Re: straasha]
    #7946092 - 01/28/08 04:34 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

sometimes i can hold many conversations at once. at least three. i can hear what other people say at the same time as i answer another question or hear two people speaking at the same time and process both. ive wondered if that is where my problem lays, processing too much or not having enough filters. could also be the reaction to it that messes me up.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinestraasha
Grandfaloon


Registered: 11/01/06
Posts: 117
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Soutable post for philosophy and psychology forum. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7946129 - 01/28/08 04:40 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

in fairness, i omitted the last sentence.

"Treisman proposed that unattended information is not "gated" completely but instead is simply reduced. Broadbent, the major proponent of of the filter theory, agreed and amended his view"

He says that not only are certain signals enhanced, some are dampened as well.

also later he sayd "It now seems clear that attentional selection is not an all or nothing process that eliminated unattended stimuli, as proponents of early selection theories have argues. Nor is unattended information fully processed before selection occurs as suggested by late selection theories"

By selection he means the signal coming into conscious awareness.

Apologies for the omissions, thanks for pulling me on them.

He doesn't really elaborate on what he means by stages though.

Now to re-ask that question: What implications might this have relating to philosophy or morals or technique.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinestraasha
Grandfaloon


Registered: 11/01/06
Posts: 117
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Soutable post for philosophy and psychology forum. [Re: prankster]
    #7946137 - 01/28/08 04:42 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

That sometimes happen to me too, but i have to be devoting a lot of attention to listening.

It might not be uncommon, can anyone else do it?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
 User Gallery
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: Soutable post for philosophy and psychology forum. [Re: straasha]
    #7946481 - 01/28/08 05:47 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

attention and attention span, are not tangible terms.

how can someone explain how a conducter can read 8-20 different instrumentation parts, in different clefs, and still pick out when one of the 6 french horns hit a wrong note, as well as which french horn hit that wrong note.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesunnyjim
Stranger
Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 28
Last seen: 16 years, 3 days
Re: Soutable post for philosophy and psychology forum. [Re: straasha]
    #7947017 - 01/28/08 07:21 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

whoever rotes that from the rote it from the math brain which is a joke anyway we all play to steal the day to save the day for real math is a gam we know its incomplete but we play it because if we imagined all day then someone weho uld come and take our land away because there are still monkey devils who are greedy and murderous around.

interesting post, lots of knowledge in the words yet hard to translate to practicality. very mathey


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
Re: Soutable post for philosophy and psychology forum. [Re: sunnyjim]
    #7947374 - 01/28/08 08:08 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

yes three conversations are very doable.
even a single conversation can follow multiple trains.
each gathers up relavent associations into the short term memory queue.
then in response to each conversant, a little of the most pertinent content is offered. and so it goes.
like a ping pong game, but with huge rackets and the ball never falls off the table, or perhaps the tables are so low that everything goes.

anyway the idea of attention is a most tangible one.
except in this case the mind becomes the hand as opposed to the literal meaning of "tangere" in it's latin interpretation to touch, (L tang(ere) to touch).
Note the mind grips before the hand does, but it grips by resonance, or feedback. by recycling the signals that it is interested in.
Even before we can grip things inour fists as babies we grip them in our minds. attention is the primal grip (for humans)


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
 User Gallery
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: Soutable post for philosophy and psychology forum. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7948201 - 01/28/08 10:28 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

attention is just synonymous with focus, yet you wouldnt say focus is a tangible thing, it is a word that expresses a concept.

using non tangible describing words in a non- metaphorical sense is what leads to people making up phrases like "I have a short attention span".


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
Re: Soutable post for philosophy and psychology forum. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7949174 - 01/29/08 03:33 AM (16 years, 3 days ago)

"focus your attention on this"
means collect your wits and then set them here.
in which case focussing is collecting action, and attending is standing by more or less.
a coming together, and a readiness nearby. two different but related things.

Anyway, your hand is the lesser of the grasping agents when compared directly to the mind. (the metaphor extends nicely to wits & fingers)

BTW short attention spans can be excercised to become longer and stronger. (I keep getting the emails to lengthen and strengthen mine but I never read them)


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinestraasha
Grandfaloon


Registered: 11/01/06
Posts: 117
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Soutable post for philosophy and psychology forum. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7949597 - 01/29/08 08:55 AM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Will noone answer the question that was asked?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1

Shop: PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Spirituality Forum Rules Anonymous 1,455 0 07/29/02 12:36 PM
by Anonymous
* Philosophy and "spiritual" living
( 1 2 all )
11polakie11 2,829 20 06/25/02 07:43 AM
by nugsarenice
* post by someone else on a different forum... Smack31 1,193 7 09/19/02 12:14 PM
by In(di)go
* No more Spirituality or Philosophy in S&P chemkid 1,521 6 10/10/02 08:47 AM
by Anonymous
* Where all the philosophy went.... nubious 1,143 7 06/05/03 03:00 AM
by infidelGOD
* Philosophy Links
( 1 2 all )
Anonymous 6,382 36 05/25/04 09:26 AM
by Deviant
* A dissertation on the aspects of subjectivity.
( 1 2 all )
Anonymous 2,751 20 09/21/02 02:01 AM
by Anonymous
* time to post greenpin 388 3 10/10/02 06:17 PM
by vaporbrains

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
1,075 topic views. 1 members, 16 guests and 1 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.035 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 14 queries.