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Offlinealienbaby
Stranger


Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 33
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
Re: Christianity! [Re: IslandShroomer]
    #7944788 - 01/28/08 11:07 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

yeah im like ok whatever , stick a pin in it and whatnot

alienbaby babe


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OfflineIslandShroomer
The Other One
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Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 1,152
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Re: Christianity! [Re: razmablues]
    #7944818 - 01/28/08 11:16 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

razmablues said:
i'm just glad to know there's more and more objective heads springing about in the world in regards to religion. conversations like these were probably far and apart even 25 years ago.




That could not be more true. Both of my parents grew up going to Catholic Schools, being involved in church, altar boys/girls, etc., a lot of which was forced by parents. I remember when i was Young, I frequently attended church, did communion, sunday school, and almost went to a private catholic school.

However, I think they realized that sometimes, maybe that isn't the right path for your child . . . so I went to public schools instead, and the family as a whole kind of veered away . . . I'm pretty much a C&E guy now (Christmas and Easter).

Oddly enough, I think my education has opened my parents eyes to other religions. Both my parents have read many background books on Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, etc. Mother even attends the local Buddhist temple once a week or so. Not frequent, but still . . . I'm rambling.

Point being - though there is still unquestionably a taboo concerning religions in some places, its nice to see people open there eyes and learning a bit more.


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InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
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Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension Flag
Re: Christianity! [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7944840 - 01/28/08 11:21 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Disco Cat said:

Well that's a load of ignorance.
The Crusades began due to Muslims invading the Byzantine Empire, calling for the destruction of Christian church in Jerusalem, and killing Christian clergy and pilgrims.
The Crusades went on to kill about 2000 people over 300 years.





erm excuse me... 2,000 people over 300 years? And you're saying I'm talking a load of ignorance?

The Crusades is estimated to have killed more than 9 million people altogether.. .Christians, Muslims, and Innocent Civilians alike. Many of those being civilians caught in the brutal carnage. And there is certainly no way to have an exact number for sure. Perhaps it started due to muslims invading Jerusalem.. but you are forgetting that the "Holy Land" was stolen from the Muslims in the first place... in 638 AD. They were just taking it back. But you seem to ignore most of the carnage that the christians were most definitely a leading part of.

Quote:

The defenders fled along the walls and through the city, and our men pursued them killing and cutting them down as far as Solomon's Temple, where there was such a massacre that our men were wading ankle deep in blood ... Then the crusaders rushed around the whole city, seizing gold and silver, horses and mules, and looting the housing that were full of costly things. Then, rejoicing and weeping from excess of happiness, they all came to worship and give thanks at the sepulchre of our saviour Jesus. Next morning, they went cautiously up the temple roof and attacked the Saracens, both men and women [who had taken refuge there], cutting off their heads with drawn swords ... Our leaders then gave orders that all the Saracen corpses should be thrown outside the city because of the stench, for almost the whole city was full of dead bodies ... such a slaughter of pagans had never been seen or heard of, for they were burned in pyres like pyramids, and none save God alone knows how many they were.




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OfflineIslandShroomer
The Other One
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Posts: 1,152
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Re: Christianity! [Re: Shroomism]
    #7944848 - 01/28/08 11:23 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

The muslim's took Jerusalem from the Jew's though, did they not?


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Christianity! [Re: IslandShroomer]
    #7944865 - 01/28/08 11:28 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

Depends who you ask, and at what time. Actually the Jews took it from the Jebusites.


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OfflineOracle Of Delphi
I, Phantom
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Re: Christianity! [Re: Shroomism]
    #7945411 - 01/28/08 01:43 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
I thank satanism for providing the yang. But I have the same problem with satanism that I have with christianity.. the message is cool.. but some people take it waay too literally and some satanists are fucking insane. Just fuck religions. Be. We are all humans.




the exact reason religion is wrong for me.
I consider myself spiritual, and respect others right to practice as they like.

I only wish the same courtesy was afforded me


--------------------


http://dictionary.reference.com/



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InvisibleBandersnatch
Frumious


Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 768
Re: Christianity! [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7945786 - 01/28/08 03:13 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Disco Cat said:
Heaps more ignorance. What is known as fundamental Christianity in the South of the US is not relatable to Christian teaching, nor is it representative of Christianity in the world. It's an abomination specific to the US which can not honestly be called Christianity, and which is generally not thought of when the word "Chistianity" is used by persons who live outside of the US.
Your list of points is irrelevant to a discussion of Christianity, and your fundies aren't representative of Christianity, they're representative of US supidity.
And I really shouldn't have to say it, but attempting to use Bush as a representative of Christianity is a very ignorant move.




In my experience, most Christians look to Bush as a role model of Christianity. They may be fundamentalists, they may be outliers in the world model of Christianity, and I am for sure surrounded by a good deal of ignorant people, but I am speaking from what I know.

Regardless, my point with these statements was not that fundamentalists are the majority of the Christian faith but that they are indeed part of it. You say my list of points is irrelevant to the discussion of Christianity but those points were stated in response to your assertion that Christianity protects and upholds freedoms... when, no matter what denomination you stand by, it only upholds freedoms that it believes are morally right according to its viewpoint.

Perhaps I should have more clearly stated "fundamentalism" as "Conservative Christianity" which is indeed practiced over the world but, as you stated, to an appalling degree in the United States... and especially the United States South (a region which is essentially a joke within a joke)

The cannibalism reference is a fantastic supporting my point; Christianity does not uphold freedoms, only the freedoms that it believes are right. Who are they to decide that something that has been a part of a culture for years is no longer valid and must be eradicated? Cannibalism may be appalling or disgusting to you, but does that make it your right or business to take that freedom from another person or group of people? Maybe these things are not the best for the person but despite that, why shouldn't it be their right, their liberty?

This is also an important issue here, on a drug forum. Or more specifically, a mycological forum with psychedelic/psychoactive substance leanings. Why should anyone have the right to tell us what we can or cannot put in our bodies, be it human flesh or a few tabs of LSD? The fact of the matter is, no one should have that right or ability but Christianity, who you declared to be supporting "personal freedom as a right, especially in the United States."

The fact of the matter is, it's not the case. Freedom is freedom is freedom and what Christianity argues and wants to implement is not.

Quote:

Disco Cat said:
Doesn't condone rape, and your quote does not imply women are asking for rape.


I changed the verse I cited (before you posted, I might add) because the one that I had initially quoted was obviously not saying what I had intended it to. That verse was referring to adultery rather than rape.


Quote:

Disco Cat said:
You were actually wanting to argue that sex trading is condoned in the bible. Your quotes fail to do that. Those quotes don't condone the possession of concubines either.




You're right, they don't, specifically. There are plenty that do though. There are also numerous verses that support the purchasing of female slaves by males for their pleasure and the trading and rules associated with these slaves.


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InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: Christianity! [Re: Shroomism]
    #7949220 - 01/29/08 05:14 AM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

erm excuse me... 2,000 people over 300 years? And you're saying I'm talking a load of ignorance?

The Crusades is estimated to have killed more than 9 million people altogether.. .Christians, Muslims, and Innocent Civilians alike.



9 mill? No, not that many. Various estimates suggest 1-2 million dead over several centuries, which includes death from famine and disease. The point of it being a notably small number stands.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Individual Events:
Davies: Crusaders killed up to 8,000 Jews in Rhineland
Paul Johnson A History of the Jews (1987): 1,000 Jewish women in Rhineland comm. suicide to avoid the mob, 1096.
Gibbon, Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, v.5, 6
1st Crusade: 300,000 Eur. k at Battle of Nice [Nicea].
Crusaders vs. Solimon of Roum: 4,000 Christians, 3,000 Moslems
1098, Fall of Antioch: 100,000 Moslems massacred.
50,000 Pilgrims died of disease.
1099, Fall of Jerusalem: 70,000 Moslems massacred.
Siege of Tiberias: 30,000 Christians k.
Siege of Tyre: 1,000 Turks
Richard the Lionhearted executes 3,000 Moslem POWs.
1291: 100,000 Christians k after fall of Acre.
Fall of Christian Antioch: 17,000 massacred.
[TOTAL: 677,000 listed in these episodes here.]
Catholic Encyclopedia (1910) [http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/]
Jaffa: 20,000 Christians massacred, 1197
Sorokin estimates that French, English & Imperial German Crusaders lost a total of 3,600 in battle.
1st C (1096-99): 400
2nd C (1147-49): 750
3rd C (1189-91): 930
4th C (1202-04): 120
5th C (1228-29): 600
7th C (1248-54): 700
James Trager, The People's Chronology (1992)
1099: Crusaders slaughter 40,000 inhabs of Jerusalem. Dis/starv reduced Crusaders from 300,000 to 60,000.
1147: 2nd Crusades begins with 500,000. "Most" lost to starv./disease/battle.
1190: 500 Jews massacred in York.
1192: 3rd Crusade reduced from 100,000 to 5,000 through famine, plagues and desertions in campaign vs Antioch.
1212: Children's Crusade loses some 50,000.
[TOTAL: Just in these incidents, it appears the Europeans lost around 650,000.]
TOTAL: When I take all the individual death tolls listed here, weed out the duplicates, fill in the blanks, apply Occam ("Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate"), etc. I get a very rough total of 1½ M deaths in the Crusades.

taken from here

Quote:

Perhaps it started due to muslims invading Jerusalem.. but you are forgetting that the "Holy Land" was stolen from the Muslims in the first place... in 638 AD.




No, 638 is when Muslims captured Jerusalem.

Quote:

But you seem to ignore most of the carnage that the christians were most definitely a leading part of.



Pardon? I called out your claim that the crusades were caused by Christianity, which is wasn't. The Byzantine emperor asked for the Pope's help to fend off Muslim takeover of the Byzantine empire. Encouraged by recent hostilities from Muslims towards Christians, the Pope conceded.





Quote:

Bandersnatch said:
In my experience, most Christians look to Bush as a role model of Christianity. They may be fundamentalists, they may be outliers in the world model of Christianity, and I am for sure surrounded by a good deal of ignorant people, but I am speaking from what I know.



People looking to Bush as a religious role model is a unique aspect of US fundamentalism, which is probably akin to looking to Stalin as an atheistic role model.

Quote:

I changed the verse I cited (before you posted, I might add) because the one that I had initially quoted was obviously not saying what I had intended it to. That verse was referring to adultery rather than rape.



What you changed it to is not condoning or even speaking of rape.

Quote:

You're right, they don't, specifically. There are plenty that do though. There are also numerous verses that support the purchasing of female slaves by males for their pleasure and the trading and rules associated with these slaves.



Plenty of versus that condone prostitution, or having concubines? There is no support of prostitution in the bible, and there is lots of disaproval of it.
The occurance of multiple wives, or concubines, is recorded without making comment on the acceptance of the practice, from what I recall.


Edited by Disco Cat (01/29/08 05:29 AM)


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Offlinepsychejam
Musician

Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 380
Loc: Surfers Paradise, Queensl...
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Re: Christianity! [Re: Shroomism]
    #7949245 - 01/29/08 05:52 AM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:







Haha, real funny. Now can you show us one about Islam and maybe Buddhism while you're at it? Oh, Jehovah's Witness and 7th Day Adventist would be even funnier.

:rolleyes:


--------------------
"You mean we're smoking dog shit, man?!"


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InvisibleAsante
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Registered: 02/06/02
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Re: Christianity! [Re: Shroomism]
    #7949281 - 01/29/08 06:43 AM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Why these attacks on Christianity?


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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OfflineBrAiN
Art Fag
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Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 6,875
Loc: Chocolate City
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Re: Christianity! [Re: Asante]
    #7949282 - 01/29/08 06:44 AM (16 years, 3 days ago)

THere's nothing wrong with CHristianity...

... just the CHristians :wink:


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Christianity! [Re: BrAiN]
    #7949296 - 01/29/08 06:54 AM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Theres a trend of Christian-bashing on this website. It's a pity people can't coexist and agree to disagree without pecking at eachother. And here it is pretty onesided. The Shroomery Christians aren't pecking anyone, yet they get to endure all kinds of hostilities.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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Offlinerizingfire
Mycoticus psychoticus
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Re: Christianity! [Re: robbyberto]
    #7949302 - 01/29/08 06:57 AM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

robbyberto said:
How could you forget the brainwashing? Millions of children are brainwashed into it every year.




Kinda like the liberals trying to rewrite history with our Christian heritage. Millions of good people are brainwashed every year into thinking there are no consequences for their actions.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 6,875
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Re: Christianity! [Re: Asante]
    #7949480 - 01/29/08 08:18 AM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Theres a trend of Christian-bashing on this website. It's a pity people can't coexist and agree to disagree without pecking at eachother. And here it is pretty onesided. The Shroomery Christians aren't pecking anyone, yet they get to endure all kinds of hostilities.




I've got nothing wrong with Christians... just the ones that try to tell me how to live... which is like 90% of the ones I know... the ones that try to impose their ideals on other people.

The same go for the whiney ass atheists that act all offended when they see "Merry Xmas" signs in stores. Boo hoo. These people need to shut the fuck up also.


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OfflineCaptainTed
Stiff as toysand tall as men
Male

Registered: 01/31/08
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Re: Christianity! [Re: IslandShroomer]
    #7962924 - 02/01/08 12:01 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Christianity isn't so much of a way of life as it is your up bringing. It has been divided into so many different denominations that it is a joke.

And I agree that it has been the cause for so much death and unneedful destruction.

Although Christianity has been ruined by so called Christians, the principal teachings of the bible remain true if you read them to yourself. It is only when someone Else gives their interpretation on its meaning (which is entirely and individually symbolic) that disillusion and twisted interpretations arise. In the New Testament Jesus himself is quoted as saying the laws of God are in the hearts and minds of men. A true testament to our free will. DON'T LET ANYONE ELSE INTERPRET LIFE FOR YOU!


--------------------
I revele in the fantasy of the world.


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Invisibleawesomebastard
Lost
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Registered: 12/16/07
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Re: Christianity! [Re: boxcarguy07]
    #7966175 - 02/01/08 06:54 PM (16 years, 8 hours ago)

Quote:

boxcarguy07 said:
Christianity is more a way of life



Christianity is more of a dogma. hahahahaha pwn


--------------------
"Absolute certainty is a privilege of uneducated minds and fanatics." ~ C.J. Keyser



Mr. Cypher said: "I just tell the girls how sexy I am and their panties melt."


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Invisibleawesomebastard
Lost
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Re: Christianity! [Re: Asante]
    #7966189 - 02/01/08 06:57 PM (16 years, 8 hours ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Theres a trend of Christian-bashing on this website. It's a pity people can't coexist and agree to disagree without pecking at eachother. And here it is pretty onesided. The Shroomery Christians aren't pecking anyone, yet they get to endure all kinds of hostilities.



By the way my beef isnt with faith its with dogma and the sheeple who mindlessly follow and try to push there "morality" on others.


--------------------
"Absolute certainty is a privilege of uneducated minds and fanatics." ~ C.J. Keyser



Mr. Cypher said: "I just tell the girls how sexy I am and their panties melt."


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InvisibleHELLA_TIGHT
Madge the Smoking Vag
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Re: Christianity! [Re: Shroomism]
    #7966192 - 02/01/08 06:58 PM (16 years, 8 hours ago)

We should take all the christians and put them in camps!

:lolocaust:


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InvisibleAtheist
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Re: Christianity! [Re: HELLA_TIGHT]
    #7966196 - 02/01/08 06:59 PM (16 years, 8 hours ago)

:thumbup:


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Invisibleawesomebastard
Lost
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Registered: 12/16/07
Posts: 4,891
Re: Christianity! [Re: HELLA_TIGHT]
    #7966200 - 02/01/08 07:00 PM (16 years, 8 hours ago)

Quote:

HELLA_TIGHT said:
We should take all the christians and put them in camps!

:lolocaust:



I hope you are kidding but funny avatar.


--------------------
"Absolute certainty is a privilege of uneducated minds and fanatics." ~ C.J. Keyser



Mr. Cypher said: "I just tell the girls how sexy I am and their panties melt."


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