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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: azures/outdoors/eastern l.i./80g fresh [Re: comario]
    #814027 - 08/13/02 03:28 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

strange.....
The email offer still stands....


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Offlinecomario
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Re: azures/outdoors/eastern l.i./80g fresh [Re: Anno]
    #814274 - 08/13/02 07:33 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

anno, thanks for the help with the pics (btw, could you please insert them in my post?) I see your observation that they cannot be azures and i am extremely puzzled. i believe this requires some serious investigation and debate on this forum. consider this:

1. i purchased azures spores from sporeworks
2. i followed the protocol for wood loving species
3. when wet, the caps are quite orange brown
4. when dry, they turn to the most dark indigo black, such as i have never seen on a cubensis (i will send you pics later showing this).

overall, they do not seem like regular cubensis to me. i guess a microscopic analysis would be helpful, how could i go about this? everybody's thoughts on this are appreciated


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: azures/outdoors/eastern l.i./80g fresh [Re: comario]
    #814469 - 08/13/02 08:56 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

The pictures:





And some more:






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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: azures/outdoors/eastern l.i./80g fresh [Re: comario]
    #814493 - 08/13/02 09:04 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

If you look at the pictures, you will see that the mushrooms have veils.
P. azurescens never has a veil.

>i guess a microscopic analysis would be helpful, how could i go about this?
The microscopic differences betetween P. azurescens and P. cubensis aren?t that big.
I once compared P. azurescens and few other species under microsope, the differences are really very minute.



Also check this out:

http://www.fungifun.org/gallery2/wood_lovers


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Offlinecomario
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Re: azures/outdoors/eastern l.i./80g fresh [Re: Anno]
    #814884 - 08/13/02 12:28 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

anno, thanks for uploading the pics. regardless of what species they turn out to be, i love them! i would appreciate more thoughts on this from you and everybody here, i think its quite challenging! PLEASE NOTE THAT STAMETS (PMOTW, 1996, page 95) STATES: "[P. AZ.] VEIL WHITE, CORTINATE, OFTEN LEAVING A FIBRILLOSE ANULAR ZONE IN THE SUPERIOR REGIONS OF THE STEM". i strongly believe that my specimens could qualify, at least according to Stamets. ALSO PLEASE CONSIDER THAT THE PICS WERE TAKEN 4 DAYS AFTER HARVEST, SO THAT THE CAP COULORS HAVE ALREADY GREATLY FADED. Still, i acknowledge that the macroscopic appearance of the fruitbodies, at least to me, the shape, strongly reminds of the cubensis traits. however, i also note strong relatively definite overoall macroscopic characters resembling the azures species, mostly the intense indigo black darkening upon dryin (although not yet visible in the pictures posted, taken 4 days from picking but maintained in refrigerator/ intense indigo-black bruising visible fully only upon full drying/pics to follow).

well, these are my thoughts, would appreciate hearing yours.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: azures/outdoors/eastern l.i./80g fresh [Re: comario]
    #814930 - 08/13/02 12:54 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

>VEIL WHITE, CORTINATE, OFTEN LEAVING A FIBRILLOSE ANULAR ZONE IN THE SUPERIOR REGIONS OF THE STEM"

Look at the zone here:



More azurescens pictures here: http://www.fungifun.org/gallery2/album01

You mushrooms have a
"partial veil membranous, leaving a vell developed, white, perisitent membranous annulus.."
((PMOTW, 1996, page 108)





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Offlinecomario
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Re: azures/outdoors/eastern l.i./80g fresh [Re: Anno]
    #815464 - 08/13/02 05:04 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

i wonder if workman might have some comments on this, since one thing i'm pretty sure of is that i grew the spores i acquiredfromt sporeworks as azures. the fact is that, as Stamets points out, Azures do have a veil. I wonder if the fact that my specimens have a more developed veil than is usual the case might be influenced by the extraordinary fruiting conditions (very hot for this species, close to the optimum parameters for cubensis).


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Re: azures/outdoors/eastern l.i./80g fresh [Re: comario]
    #815678 - 08/13/02 06:41 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

They are cubensis, not azures. Fruiting temps alone should make that apparent.

Having a clear MEMBRANOUS annulus. And most easily recognizable, STEM WIDTH.
Darkening could be a result of being wet and placing them in the Refridge, same thing happens in a plastic bag.

If it is at all in doubt, eat ONE gram dry and you will know for sure.



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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: azures/outdoors/eastern l.i./80g fresh [Re: comario]
    #816063 - 08/13/02 09:17 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

>the fact is that, as Stamets points out, Azures do have a veil.

No, no, no....
You are mixing up things.
A veil doesn?t eqal a veil. The azurescens only has a veil before it breaks. After that only a few reminescens are visible at the stem. Not a membranous veil.

Lemme show you how an azurescens veil looks like:

Here you can see the veils still intact:



At the left side the veil is just tearing. It looks like a web. Not an membrane!




Now for the reasons you grew a cubensis instead of azurescens.
Did you ever fruit cubensis at the facility where you did your agar work?
How did you inoculate the agar?
Do you have a hepa?
At which temperature did you incubate the agar?
At which temperature did you incubate the rye spawn?


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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: azures/outdoors/eastern l.i./80g fresh [Re: comario]
    #816655 - 08/14/02 05:45 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Sorry to dissapoint, but those are cubensis. Spore Works will replace your purchase. A mislabeled print from Spore Works is unlikely but not impossible. I suspect you are experiencing cubensis contamination from your other growing projects. Cubensis can spew out millions of spores and it is aggressive enough to overtake substrates already colonized by other less aggressive species. This could have happened at any stage, even at the agar plate stage.

Suprisingly, this is a fairly common occurance and serves to perpetuate the myth of an indoor warm temperature, easy to fruit azurescens. If you held a real azurescens in your hand, then you would easily understand the differences.

Don't give up.


--------------------
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The Spore Works
Exotic Spore Supply
Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification :amanitajar:


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Offlinecomario
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Re: azures/outdoors/eastern l.i./80g fresh [Re: Workman]
    #817544 - 08/15/02 11:22 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

ok guys, i see your points. i really appreciate your interest. still, this is quite an interesting strain of cubensis, since it fruited on wood chips. i will also let you know as to potency, ceremony planned for tomorrow. workman, i will contact you separately regarding replacement! (although i do understand that contamination was more likely at my lab). btw, i have clones and more fully colonized petris of this strain, as well as more outdoor containers just inoculated. lastly, i would appreciate some help in moving one of the pictures (the first one, with the lophophora, to the ethnogardening forum, i guess its more appropriate there.


--------------------
x


Edited by comario (08/15/02 11:47 AM)


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Offlinecomario
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Re: azures/outdoors/eastern l.i./80g fresh [Re: comario]
    #827324 - 08/19/02 06:21 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

second flush harvested yesterday. will try to post pics later today.


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InvisibleChampion des Champignons
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Re: azures/outdoors/eastern l.i./80g fresh [Re: comario]
    #827576 - 08/19/02 09:21 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)


In reply to:

i would appreciate some help in moving one of the pictures


in your post but without the *s


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---------------------------------------------------
hmmm........


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Offlinecomario2
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Re: azures/outdoors/eastern l.i./80g fresh [Re: comario]
    #980029 - 10/21/02 04:18 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

i thought i'd bump this one  .... might be of interest to those who, like me, grew cubes instead of azures, or for those wanting to grow cubes on woodchips :laugh: 


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comario


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