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CureCat
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Registered: 04/19/06
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Pellicle
#7937196 - 01/26/08 08:23 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Okay. So here is my photo and video demonstration of how to check mushrooms for a pellicle (separable gelatinous membrane on the pileus).
The first mushrooms I show briefly in the beginning are Gymnpilus sapineus (or something very similar.. there are about 3 common species in the bay area which look practically identical. Need a microscope to sort them by species), and Pluteus pouzarianus. The last mushrooms with the pellicle are Pholiota velaglutinosa or another of the macroscopically indistinguishable species related to it.
~CC
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casgoodie
weedwright
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Re: Pellicle [Re: CureCat]
#7937221 - 01/26/08 08:28 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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nice claws
-------------------- TRAPPED IN LINGUISTIC CONCEPTS
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auweia
mountain biking
Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 2,725
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jeez, I remember I got into this debate last year regarding cyans in another thread
my personal hunting history involved p semilanceata from N California and Oregon border, and those definately had a pelicle you could peal off quite easily, and many times, you didn't even need a pin to do it..Just peel it with your fingers
but I've never seen that same type of pellicle with cyans..not even once, so it seems the definition of a pellicle can vary quite widely
I think maybe it should be narrowed down to > can you peel it off the cap like a second skin and have it sitting next to the cap completely separated, identified separately as not a mushroom, but a little glob of pellicle
liberty caps do that, but not cyans..not the ones I've seen anyway, and I would certainly like to see a video of anybody separating a so called cyanescens pellicle, peeling it off the cap, and placing that pellicle next to the cap
I don't think it can be done with cyans...Semilanceatas yes, cyans no
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CureCat
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Re: Pellicle [Re: auweia] 1
#7937323 - 01/26/08 08:50 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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You're right, the pellicle is completely different.
In fact, I didn't think the pellicle of Ps. cyanescens was a pellicle at all. I was at the Fungus Fair in Oakland, arguing this with Tahoe, and Peter was right there, so I asked his advice. Tahoe peeled another strip off the pileus of the Cyan, and Peter said it was in fact a pellicle. But then according to that loose description of a pellicle, these G. sapineus and Pl. pouzarianus also have a pellicle.
Seeing as a pellicle is described as "gelatinous", I excluded a lot of species (including Ps. cyanescens) from having a pellicle, simply because the pellicle is nothing like the very gelatinous and sticky layer that peels off Ps. semilanceata, Ph. velaglutinosa, and many Suillus sp..
I think that perhaps, different types of pellicle should be described.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
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Re: Pellicle [Re: CureCat]
#7937482 - 01/26/08 09:20 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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All mushrooms have a pellicle - According to How to Identify Mushrooms to Genus V, A pellicle is "The outermost layer of a sporocarp; often used only for a surface that is viscid and peels off with ease."
Psilocybe semilanceata has a separable gelatinous pellicle, while Psilocybe cyanescens has a sometimes separable gelatinous pellicle.
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auweia
mountain biking
Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 2,725
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Quote:
Psilocybe semilanceata has a separable gelatinous pellicle, while Psilocybe cyanescens has a sometimes separable gelatinous pellicle.
sometimes meaning....erm....once a week, sometimes when they're wet, somtimes under certain conditions in a certain backyard of somebody's very wet home?
Liberty Caps aka, Psilocybe Semilencaeata have a pellicle..THAT is a pellicle
P cyanscens, sometimes, have an outside protective layer of extra gelatenous skin that is sometimes called a pellicle, but you sure as hell can't peel it off like liberty caps
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CureCat
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said: All mushrooms have a pellicle - According to How to Identify Mushrooms to Genus V, A pellicle is "The outermost layer of a sporocarp; often used only for a surface that is viscid and peels off with ease."
THANK YOU for clearing that up!!! That clears everything up!
Most sources refer to a pellicle as "gelatinous" and/or "separable". However, not all species described as having a pellicle have a gelatinous, nor easily separable cuticle.
So I am very happy to know that ALL mushrooms have a pellicle. Distinctions should be specified for clarity- in this case with Ph. velaglutinosa, the pellicle is consistent with the common description of a "separable gelatinous layer".
In the case of Ps. cyanescens, I have never seen any evidence to support a "gelatinous" pellicle. I would define "gelatinous" as being sticky, viscous, and pliable or stretchy.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
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Re: Pellicle [Re: CureCat]
#7938571 - 01/27/08 12:19 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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> In the case of Ps. cyanescens, I have never seen any evidence to support a "gelatinous" pellicle. I would define "gelatinous" as being sticky, viscous, and pliable or stretchy.
The cap of P. cyanescens is viscid due to its gelatinous pellicle.
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CureCat
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Oh, scratch that. I was using a more broad definition of viscid. But I just checked, and despite it's multiple definitions, the most common one by far described a sticky coating, which I wouldn't consider Ps. cyanescens to have. Maybe slightly viscid, or slightly gelatinous, but not to the point of being able to stretch a slimy pellicle, as with Ps. semilanceata or these Pholiota in the video. If the description includes gelatinous, I would expect to be able to stretch the pellicle. But maybe that's just me.
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impureshroom
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Re: Pellicle [Re: CureCat]
#8519387 - 06/13/08 11:57 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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am i correct these are cyans....
-------------------- --- buy fair trade, buy organics. support your local farmers and tradespersons. economy follows community, and only exists because of it. ---
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HerbBaker
Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 2,506
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It seems like species that can be described as lubricous to subviscid have pellicles that are harder to remove than viscid to gelatinous species.
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CureCat
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Quote:
impureshroom said: am i correct these are cyans....
Nope. They are a Pholiota species.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,697
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Re: Pellicle [Re: CureCat]
#8519785 - 06/13/08 01:34 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thanks for sharing that piece of practical knowledge CureCat, I think that contributions like this help constitute the added value of these boards. It's nice to see a forum that's is so accessible to unexperienced people while offering enough stimulation for knowledgeable users to remain active and contributing!
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CureCat
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Re: Pellicle [Re: koraks]
#8519814 - 06/13/08 01:41 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thanks Koraks!
I posted this a couple months ago, but my buried threads have been getting dug up lately. Oh well!
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,697
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Re: Pellicle [Re: CureCat]
#8519974 - 06/13/08 02:19 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ah, didn't even notice it...
Forgot to mention you have a pleasant voice
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Mr. Cordoza
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Re: Pellicle [Re: koraks]
#8520022 - 06/13/08 02:30 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
koraks said: Forgot to mention you have a pleasant voice
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CureCat
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Uhh, 'aight.
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impureshroom
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Re: Pellicle [Re: CureCat]
#8520190 - 06/13/08 03:10 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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ahh cheers mate.... could u give me some advice for finding Psilocybe semilanceata without flaming me lol
-------------------- --- buy fair trade, buy organics. support your local farmers and tradespersons. economy follows community, and only exists because of it. ---
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weiliiiiiii
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Registered: 10/10/03
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Nice vid dude, the first time i showed my wife how those(pellicle)separated from a mushroom cap she freaked out. She said "oh god im actually eating that" it was very funny guess you had too be there oh well great job again.
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CureCat
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Quote:
weiliiiiiii said: she freaked out. She said "oh god im actually eating that"
Usually people say that after you show them maggots crawling around inside a mushroom.
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