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InvisibleCureCat
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Pellicle
    #7937196 - 01/26/08 08:23 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Okay. So here is my photo and video demonstration of how to check mushrooms for a pellicle (separable gelatinous membrane on the pileus).

The first mushrooms I show briefly in the beginning are Gymnpilus sapineus (or something very similar.. there are about 3 common species in the bay area which look practically identical. Need a microscope to sort them by species), and Pluteus pouzarianus.
The last mushrooms with the pellicle are Pholiota velaglutinosa or another of the macroscopically indistinguishable species related to it.





~CC


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Offlinecasgoodie
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Re: Pellicle [Re: CureCat]
    #7937221 - 01/26/08 08:28 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

nice claws


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Invisibleauweia
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Re: Pellicle [Re: casgoodie]
    #7937268 - 01/26/08 08:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

jeez, I remember I got into this debate last year regarding cyans in another thread

my personal hunting history involved p semilanceata from N California and Oregon border, and those definately had a pelicle you could peal off quite easily, and many times, you didn't even need a pin to do it..Just peel it with your fingers

but I've never seen that same type of pellicle with cyans..not even once, so it seems the definition of a pellicle can vary quite widely

I think maybe it should be narrowed down to > can you peel it off the cap like a second skin and have it sitting next to the cap completely separated, identified separately as not a mushroom, but a little glob of pellicle

liberty caps do that, but not cyans..not the ones I've seen anyway, and I would certainly like to see a video of anybody separating a so called cyanescens pellicle, peeling it off the cap, and placing that pellicle next to the cap

I don't think it can be done with cyans...Semilanceatas yes, cyans no

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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Pellicle [Re: auweia] * 1
    #7937323 - 01/26/08 08:50 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

You're right, the pellicle is completely different.

In fact, I didn't think the pellicle of Ps. cyanescens was a pellicle at all.
I was at the Fungus Fair in Oakland, arguing this with Tahoe, and Peter was right there, so I asked his advice. Tahoe peeled another strip off the pileus of the Cyan, and Peter said it was in fact a pellicle.
But then according to that loose description of a pellicle, these G. sapineus and Pl. pouzarianus also have a pellicle.

Seeing as a pellicle is described as "gelatinous", I excluded a lot of species (including Ps. cyanescens) from having a pellicle, simply because the pellicle is nothing like the very gelatinous and sticky layer that peels off Ps. semilanceata, Ph. velaglutinosa, and many Suillus sp..

I think that perhaps, different types of pellicle should be described.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Pellicle [Re: CureCat]
    #7937482 - 01/26/08 09:20 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

All mushrooms have a pellicle - According to How to Identify Mushrooms to Genus V, A pellicle is "The outermost layer of a sporocarp; often used only for a surface that is viscid and peels off with ease."

Psilocybe semilanceata has a separable gelatinous pellicle, while Psilocybe cyanescens has a sometimes separable gelatinous pellicle.

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Invisibleauweia
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Re: Pellicle [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #7937599 - 01/26/08 09:36 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


Psilocybe semilanceata has a separable gelatinous pellicle, while Psilocybe cyanescens has a sometimes separable gelatinous pellicle.




sometimes meaning....erm....once a week, sometimes when they're wet, somtimes under certain conditions in a certain backyard of somebody's very wet home?

Liberty Caps aka, Psilocybe Semilencaeata have a pellicle..THAT is a pellicle

P cyanscens, sometimes, have an outside protective layer of extra gelatenous skin that is sometimes called a pellicle, but you sure as hell can't peel it off like liberty caps

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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Pellicle [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #7937854 - 01/26/08 10:18 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
All mushrooms have a pellicle - According to How to Identify Mushrooms to Genus V, A pellicle is "The outermost layer of a sporocarp; often used only for a surface that is viscid and peels off with ease."



THANK YOU for clearing that up!!! That clears everything up!

Most sources refer to a pellicle as "gelatinous" and/or "separable". However, not all species described as having a pellicle have a gelatinous, nor easily separable cuticle.

So I am very happy to know that ALL mushrooms have a pellicle. Distinctions should be specified for clarity- in this case with Ph. velaglutinosa, the pellicle is consistent with the common description of a "separable gelatinous layer".

In the case of Ps. cyanescens, I have never seen any evidence to support a "gelatinous" pellicle. I would define "gelatinous" as being sticky, viscous, and pliable or stretchy.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Pellicle [Re: CureCat]
    #7938571 - 01/27/08 12:19 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

> In the case of Ps. cyanescens, I have never seen any evidence to support a "gelatinous" pellicle. I would define "gelatinous" as being sticky, viscous, and pliable or stretchy.

The cap of P. cyanescens is viscid due to its gelatinous pellicle.

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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Pellicle [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #7938615 - 01/27/08 12:29 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Oh, scratch that. I was using a more broad definition of viscid. But I just checked, and despite it's multiple definitions, the most common one by far described a sticky coating, which I wouldn't consider Ps. cyanescens to have. Maybe slightly viscid, or slightly gelatinous, but not to the point of being able to stretch a slimy pellicle, as with Ps. semilanceata or these Pholiota in the video. If the description includes gelatinous, I would expect to be able to stretch the pellicle. But maybe that's just me.


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Offlineimpureshroom
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Re: Pellicle [Re: CureCat]
    #8519387 - 06/13/08 11:57 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

am i correct these are cyans....


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InvisibleHerbBaker
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Re: Pellicle [Re: impureshroom]
    #8519436 - 06/13/08 12:11 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

It seems like species that can be described as lubricous to subviscid have pellicles that are harder to remove than viscid to gelatinous species.

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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Pellicle [Re: impureshroom]
    #8519601 - 06/13/08 12:50 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

impureshroom said:
am i correct these are cyans....



Nope.  They are a Pholiota species.


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Pellicle [Re: CureCat]
    #8519785 - 06/13/08 01:34 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks for sharing that piece of practical knowledge CureCat, I think that contributions like this help constitute the added value of these boards. It's nice to see a forum that's is so accessible to unexperienced people while offering enough stimulation for knowledgeable users to remain active and contributing!

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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Pellicle [Re: koraks]
    #8519814 - 06/13/08 01:41 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks Koraks!  :smile2:

I posted this a couple months ago, but my buried threads have been getting dug up lately.  Oh well!  :ohwell:


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Pellicle [Re: CureCat]
    #8519974 - 06/13/08 02:19 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Ah, didn't even notice it...

Forgot to mention you have a pleasant voice :smile:

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OfflineMr. Cordoza
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Re: Pellicle [Re: koraks]
    #8520022 - 06/13/08 02:30 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Forgot to mention you have a pleasant voice :smile:



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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Pellicle [Re: Mr. Cordoza]
    #8520120 - 06/13/08 02:49 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Uhh, 'aight.


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Offlineimpureshroom
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Re: Pellicle [Re: CureCat]
    #8520190 - 06/13/08 03:10 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

ahh cheers mate.... could u give me some advice for finding Psilocybe semilanceata without flaming me lol


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Invisibleweiliiiiiii
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Re: Pellicle [Re: impureshroom]
    #8521277 - 06/13/08 07:30 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Nice vid dude, the first time i showed my wife how those(pellicle)separated from a mushroom cap she freaked out. She said "oh god im actually eating that" it was very funny guess you had too be there oh well great job again.:thumbup:

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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: Pellicle [Re: weiliiiiiii]
    #8521813 - 06/13/08 10:12 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

weiliiiiiii said:
she freaked out. She said "oh god im actually eating that"



Usually people say that after you show them maggots crawling around inside a mushroom.  :hehehe:


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