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InvisibleBurningBeard
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A Malignant Darkness: Or why I will never do Ssalvia again.
    #7936985 - 01/26/08 07:43 PM (16 years, 6 days ago)

I'm going to write this now, before too much time has passed and I'm unable to recount it properly. I just tried salvia divinorum for the second time. I did not get what I was expecting.

A couple good friends of mine went a town or two over and managed to snag a gram of 15x from a little headshop dealing in the stuff. I'd tried it once a while back, 10x, and figured I'd give it another go. J told me I could toke out of his supply, so I obliged him and did so. The next five minutes of my life were the closest I've ever come to Hell on Earth.

Anyone who's done the shit before will tell you that the come-up is a big woosh. Salvia lacks subtlety. I threw on Wish You Were Here, the album as a whole, knowing full well I'd not finish the CD in the duration of the trip. I just wanted something mellow to coax me in. After situation the tunes, I lit the pipe. I've mentioned before that I'm partially blind, and in this particular case, that worked to my detriment. I didn't realize that the guys put waaaaay too much in the bowl. I tried to explain that if it's $35 a gram, it's fucking potent. Pack that shit light. But of course, ignorance won out.

So, I tooke a huge toke of the stuff... way larger than intended. I leaned back in my chair and gave the visualizer an intense stare, letting myself go fully. I started to drift, watching what looked to be the form of a butterfly materialize in the visualizer. A vibrant golden haze overtook the screen, everything in and around the computer began to warp, and then I lost touch.

Firstly, what made this trip so intense was the complete disconnection from everything else that took hold of me. I turned away from the screen in one last attempt at rational, conscious thought. What I was greeted with was a world of abstracts. Nothing was as it should be. These weren't vague little ripples and breathing patterns. This was a complete overthrow of all that was rational and real around me. Everything melted, bled into adjacent things.. melded into a total mush. I still had my aural faculties then.

Then the lights went out. A deep, penetrating darkness took hold, descending over me and locking me in its grip. The sounds all muted, gradually getting less and less defined until, with one final abrupt woosh, they were gone.

I was gone. Everyone and everything around me ceased to exist. I left my body. What remained was a shell that my spirit had no form of correspondence with. I floated in a huge, unending void. The sensation that remains clear from this point felt malevolent, pressing against what I thought to be my right shoulder. The physical sense of it wasn't really very sharp. It was a general hanging evil, looming over me. I maintained contact with that thing for perhaps an hour (as it felt, obviously not though) and eventually the voices started to flood back in.

I can't stress the sheer palpable fear that gripped me when this part of the trip started. This is the most tangible fear I've ever felt in my entire life. I don't scare easily as a note.

As the world flooded back in (it was more like a drip, but we'll go with flood here) I could hear the concerned voices of my compadres around me, repeatedly saying my name in an attempt to bring me around. I tried to talk back, but no words would escape my lips. My tongue was bound in iron. When finally my words came to me, I heard them as though they were spoken three feet behind me. It was as though I was still floating outside my shell.

Eventually, I gained a hold of myself again and managed to collect my thoughts. I immediately blew through five smokes in about ten minutes, all the while trying to explain the enormity of the situation to them. These guys just didn't get it. They still view psychadelics as a party drug. I suppose I wasn't much better for dosing with such wreckless abandon.

I am never smoking that fucking shit again. There is absolutely no way. I came face to face with something that I was not meant to see. I communed with something I can only describe as a malicious evil. I felt its presence and I never want to again.

The shock of this though comes mostly from two things. Firstly, I've only smoked salvia one time before. It was only 10x, and the hit was markedly smaller. Secondly, the hit I took off this was waaaay too huge a dose for me. Perhaps the reason I lost contact so powerfully came more from the sheer surprise of the come-up than anything else.

I had to share this. I've done a lot of shit, but nothing compared with this in terms of sheer intensity. There have been some close ones, but none that were so clearly defined as negative. That, folks, is the last time I ever touch that shit. Fuck salvia.


--------------------
Daedalus, your child is falling and the Labyrinth is calling.
Renegade heaps, humanity abandoned
Bower of the vowels, you lit them and fanned them.
Mercury, the courier, celestial messenger
Bed with Dawn, your bride.
Arrowhead of Diane, pierce the mind of a man,
Tongueless muse of time


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: A Malignant Darkness: Or why I will never do Ssalvia again. [Re: BurningBeard]
    #7937478 - 01/26/08 09:19 PM (16 years, 6 days ago)

I don't blame you for having a strong reaction to a very strong dose.
with salvia the dose is hard to control,
yet practice and caution yield good results, generally.

swearing it off might be overdoing it considering the merits of lighter doses.

swearing off an overdose is more like it.
but if you have to say it this way
it's ok.,
the report was a good read.


many people experience calving off of subsidiary selves with salvia, some of which persist and seem dangerous, while other selves seem to scurry about in confusion and fear. this is normal at higher doses, and while you did not write about it specifically, I think that experiencing more than one concurrent and ongoing stream of consciousness is probably what unsettled you most.

labelling it as malignant is possible but inaccurate.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleBurningBeard
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Re: A Malignant Darkness: Or why I will never do Ssalvia again. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7938107 - 01/26/08 11:00 PM (16 years, 6 days ago)

It just plainly felt malignant. It felt cancerous. It felt sentient.

That's just not the one for me. I can't imagine any benefit, real or otherwise, that could make up for that.


--------------------
Daedalus, your child is falling and the Labyrinth is calling.
Renegade heaps, humanity abandoned
Bower of the vowels, you lit them and fanned them.
Mercury, the courier, celestial messenger
Bed with Dawn, your bride.
Arrowhead of Diane, pierce the mind of a man,
Tongueless muse of time


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: A Malignant Darkness: Or why I will never do Ssalvia again. [Re: BurningBeard]
    #7939358 - 01/27/08 08:49 AM (16 years, 5 days ago)

I can see your associations, and how you come to them.
Salviaspace is not a place for all people to go, but I just want to let you know that this place is close all the time, and is not fundamentally malevalent nor fundamentally gracious.
(also at higher doses of lsd cactus and mushroom people go to the same place as well)
the hall of mirrors aspect of it takes what is available in mind-set and in environmental setting, and compounds upon that as if alive of it's own accord.
this resonant vitality is native within us.
it is us. it is the wake of the tiny boat we drive in our stream of consciousness.

the issues about mind-set include all your personal associations, every movie you have seen, and every word you have heard from your family friends and teachers, and every body feeling you have experienced. Some of the background noise can need looking at - some things may need recconnection so that they loom or rest more evenly.

I note that the poem in your signature is full of romantic sentiment and this kind of interest is fullfilled with certain kinds of horror.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineWScott
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Re: A Malignant Darkness: Or why I will never do Ssalvia again. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7939414 - 01/27/08 09:13 AM (16 years, 5 days ago)

When you say 'face to face', are you being literal or is it just an expression meaning you came in contact with a dark presence?


--------------------


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InvisibleBurningBeard
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Posts: 327
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Re: A Malignant Darkness: Or why I will never do Ssalvia again. [Re: WScott]
    #7942393 - 01/27/08 08:12 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

There wasn't a personified face, no... just using it to illustrate coming into contact.

I'll continue the philosophical discourse about the nature of the trip when I've slept. I'm suffering big time sleep dep right now and must crash.


--------------------
Daedalus, your child is falling and the Labyrinth is calling.
Renegade heaps, humanity abandoned
Bower of the vowels, you lit them and fanned them.
Mercury, the courier, celestial messenger
Bed with Dawn, your bride.
Arrowhead of Diane, pierce the mind of a man,
Tongueless muse of time


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Offline2859558484
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Re: A Malignant Darkness: Or why I will never do Ssalvia again. [Re: BurningBeard]
    #7944698 - 01/28/08 10:42 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

high doses of sally are real fucking strange compared to any other extremely power drug experence ive been through. ill prolly never do it again either. but props to ppl who can find meaningin it.


--------------------


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Offlinebtm1111
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Re: A Malignant Darkness: Or why I will never do Ssalvia again. [Re: 2859558484]
    #7944704 - 01/28/08 10:44 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

Salvia is something that I just haven't ever been able to make much sense of... I'd really like to have significant experiences with it... but so far it has just been a mindfuck for me.


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InvisibleBurningBeard
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Posts: 327
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Re: A Malignant Darkness: Or why I will never do Ssalvia again. [Re: btm1111]
    #7949468 - 01/29/08 08:14 AM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Okay... after some reflection on the experience, I think there's something I can get from it.

I'm at a very stagnant place in my life right now. Sparing all the personal whining, let's just say I'm bnot fulfilling my potential the way I ought to be. I think that this darkness was a manifestation of failure, negativity, and all that I have done and may do wrong in life. It loomed so close, touching me because it is tangible, real, and has great potential to envelop me without a meaningful attempt at diverting it.

After giving it a couple of days of reflection and deep thought, I'd have to say that this experience was the push I needed to move on with my life, and to avert the very real cataclysm that let itself be known to me then.

Will I ever do salvia again? Likely not. Mushrooms are far easier to control, and if I want such a powerful experience, it is within my grasp to attain. But, I have to thank salvia for being there, and showing me something that I was otherwise unable to see on my own. Now, more than ever, I feel a connection to the invisible and the unknown. Like I said, I've come close to breaking through before, but this was the pinnacle right here. The momentous power, the utter closeness I felt to this cloud of negativity was exactly what I needed I think. Despite the sheer terror and helplessness, or perhaps because of them, I now feel more in control than I ever have.

Redgreenvines, can you elaborate on the point you made about the lyrics in my sig and their romanticism? I'd be curious to hear your interpretation of that in relation to the trip. If you'd like to PM me, that's fine as well.


--------------------
Daedalus, your child is falling and the Labyrinth is calling.
Renegade heaps, humanity abandoned
Bower of the vowels, you lit them and fanned them.
Mercury, the courier, celestial messenger
Bed with Dawn, your bride.
Arrowhead of Diane, pierce the mind of a man,
Tongueless muse of time


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: A Malignant Darkness: Or why I will never do Ssalvia again. [Re: BurningBeard]
    #7949798 - 01/29/08 10:04 AM (16 years, 3 days ago)

the idea I keep hearing is control.
I am watching ROME on DVD lately and it really is a great thing, everyone takes things to the limit in an effort to have control, but everything is still constantly out of control.

control is not an issue, it is an act, a ruse, a pretense, a mask:

your poem at the end lists several famous masks, legendary characters who have reached for the stars and fallen into zones of full or empty romantic absolutes:
FAMA, FORTUNA, AMORE.

In my analysis, these ideals, these legends bind us to fear and hope.

the roles that are more in scale with daily life, cooking and cleaning, taking care of a garden or a child, are roles and masks that can be sustained in a salvia trip or mushroom trip with dignity, honesty, & consideration.

In short it is about how you set up the orientation in your life that can make tripping (which is reflective) a rewarding measure through and through, or just morally deflective.

In this case, you have wisely used the difficult experience to deflect your life.

while you are running around picking up the pieces, to put your life back in order, I would urge you to find simple models, that have less at stake than Daedalus, Mercury, and Diane. A more middle way helps a lot.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleBurningBeard
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Re: A Malignant Darkness: Or why I will never do Ssalvia again. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7949873 - 01/29/08 10:32 AM (16 years, 3 days ago)

An interesting analysis to be sure.

The theme of control is evident to me as well, but I don't think it's as central as you do.

As to the poem... there would have to be some serious subconscious leglifting going on that I am unaware of because I chose it due only to the aesthetic placement of the words... not for any other reason.

I'm certainly not a Greek or Roman scholar.

Though I fail to see how I'm deflecting anything... I didn't think of my response to this as deflection... more like embracing what I now know to be true.

I think my strong reaction to the drug was further intensified by the fact that I was overly bold from past experience and by the sudden realization that I had to surrender control. So in that regard, your control point makes perfect sense.

Though one thing I did not do is fight against the trip itself. I was dragged away so quickly that I hadn't the time to fight with it.

I only fought upon coming down... but I do distinctly remember clawing my way back to reality with fervor. I recall stumbling for the volume knob on the computer, turning the music down... as to exert control over my environment in a desperate grasp for reconnection. It didn't help at all. Haha!

Though, the point of models... masks... that does intrigue me... I don't feel I've idolized or used Mercury, or any other for that matter, as a model. But what I'm now realizing is that there is no model in my life at all, and that is a scary thought./


--------------------
Daedalus, your child is falling and the Labyrinth is calling.
Renegade heaps, humanity abandoned
Bower of the vowels, you lit them and fanned them.
Mercury, the courier, celestial messenger
Bed with Dawn, your bride.
Arrowhead of Diane, pierce the mind of a man,
Tongueless muse of time


Edited by BurningBeard (01/29/08 10:35 AM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: A Malignant Darkness: Or why I will never do Ssalvia again. [Re: BurningBeard]
    #7950025 - 01/29/08 11:13 AM (16 years, 3 days ago)

the terms which are in your common language which you use to describe your experience and your point of view are what I am talking about, such terms as:
true
fight
surrender

====
there are many more,
this is not bad it is your makeup- your masks are full of this language, (attitude,) and it is the language of legends, not the language of gardenning.

anyway, I am not trying to take you down or prove you are doing something wrong, just trying to let you walk beside yourself for a glimpse. many glimpses later you might have a good picture of what you were, but what you are now is always quite a bit unknowable.

as for the poem appealing to what you are, this is not about a diploma, it is about what your taste is.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleBurningBeard
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Re: A Malignant Darkness: Or why I will never do Ssalvia again. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7950277 - 01/29/08 12:34 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Well, one way or another, I appreciate the neutral viewpoint and the thoughts.

So you're proposing then that I change my masks for a less dramatic experience? That would make sense. Pardon if I seem a little dull here, but I've never been a very spiritual person and this is the first time I've broken through, etc. etc So how would you propose discovering new models/masks?.

Interesting view on language and masks as well. Never really thought about it before now and I totally agree with you there.

Please be patient with my lack of understanding. This entire world is still, by and large pretty new to me... the harsh side of it anyhow.


--------------------
Daedalus, your child is falling and the Labyrinth is calling.
Renegade heaps, humanity abandoned
Bower of the vowels, you lit them and fanned them.
Mercury, the courier, celestial messenger
Bed with Dawn, your bride.
Arrowhead of Diane, pierce the mind of a man,
Tongueless muse of time


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OfflineCubie
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Re: A Malignant Darkness: Or why I will never do Ssalvia again. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7950310 - 01/29/08 12:45 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

That's what's supposed to happen.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: A Malignant Darkness: Or why I will never do Ssalvia again. [Re: Cubie]
    #7950774 - 01/29/08 03:04 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

things get to be really automatic by the time people are high school age.
psychedelics disrupt the timing enough that automatic perception, and automatic confirmation of supposition fail to hide what is between the normalized and socialized framework of expectations.
for me it is like seeing through the eyes of a baby, but for some people it is like seeing through the eyes of a dead man.

maybe it's like the cup half full - cup half empty paradigms.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineWScott
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Re: A Malignant Darkness: Or why I will never do Ssalvia again. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7951243 - 01/29/08 04:35 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:for me it is like seeing through the eyes of a baby




That is like the first time I smoked salvia. I looked at the two of my friends that were there with something I can only call nakedness. I believe it broke down my defense system of criticisms and worries and showed me what was there and here always. I saw the world through the eyes of an (relatively) intelligent animal rather than a human, if that comes across. The invisible web of consciousness was also tangible, be it only for the duration of the trip.

When you say that things become automatic, could you also just describe it as the specific culture propagating itself? Choice still exists for the individual, only it has taken on a 'theme'.


--------------------


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InvisibleBurningBeard
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Re: A Malignant Darkness: Or why I will never do Ssalvia again. [Re: WScott]
    #7951615 - 01/29/08 05:44 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

The automatic nature does seem pretty synonimous with a culture propogating itself into your conscious mind.

Something else I found odd...


I can't figure out why I was so readily able to accept the ego death, but was unable to accept the comedown. Don't get me wrong. it scared the piss out of me, but I didn't fight with it... didn't wrestle it down.

However, upon reconnecting with reality... that's when I started fighting. Was it because the degree of separation was so great?

Understand that I'm not opposed to this sort of thing happening again. I'd just like to be prepared... and I'd like it to be on mushrooms, not salvia. I've had powerful mushroom trips... powerful LSD trips... but the gradual onset allowed me to maintaion my composure at least for a while longer and my fight or flight instincts didn't kick in as a result.

But this was my first bonified ego death type experience and that's a hard thing to come to grips with. I'm still reeling in some ways.


--------------------
Daedalus, your child is falling and the Labyrinth is calling.
Renegade heaps, humanity abandoned
Bower of the vowels, you lit them and fanned them.
Mercury, the courier, celestial messenger
Bed with Dawn, your bride.
Arrowhead of Diane, pierce the mind of a man,
Tongueless muse of time


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: A Malignant Darkness: Or why I will never do Ssalvia again. [Re: BurningBeard]
    #7951684 - 01/29/08 06:00 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

we would all like to be prepared
but to prepare to be unprepared is best

i am glad you got some good out of this.
I like mushroom pace better for entertainment but i usually don't have the time, or enough time& space to be undependable like that.

that's where the short trips come in real handy.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Re: A Malignant Darkness: Or why I will never do Ssalvia again. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7951714 - 01/29/08 06:07 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

I'm smoking a fattie resign bowl and I got it alllll over my hands


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InvisibleBurningBeard
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Re: A Malignant Darkness: Or why I will never do Ssalvia again. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7951732 - 01/29/08 06:10 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Yeah. I can understand how shorter trips can be useful.

Any thoughts on my other question regarding fighting against the trip?

I'm glad I got something out of it too. That was my goal. I'm different than my peers in that I am seeking enlightenment, self-discovery, and empathy towards those around me with psychadelics. They have that, "Let's get fucked up," approach... entirely the wrong way to view it.

It'll probably take an experience like I had to bring them aroud...but so be it. I just hope I can be of help to them the way you guys have been for me in that crisis moment.


--------------------
Daedalus, your child is falling and the Labyrinth is calling.
Renegade heaps, humanity abandoned
Bower of the vowels, you lit them and fanned them.
Mercury, the courier, celestial messenger
Bed with Dawn, your bride.
Arrowhead of Diane, pierce the mind of a man,
Tongueless muse of time


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