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Droz
Love of Life



Registered: 10/15/00
Posts: 2,746
Loc: Floorida
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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What exactly is TIME?
#7934659 - 01/26/08 12:04 PM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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We can't touch it, we can't hear it, we cannot control it.
It's already in play. The beginning has begun and the end will be closing in on you.
We can only perceive time the best we can, we can measure it, we live in it and there is no escaping it.
So what exactly is it? Is it due to the rotation of the earth around the sun, is the sun putting off some sort of bio-genetic frequency that alters our body to grow then decay?
What exactly is it? Time?
Time for us to start thinking!
Peace, Droz
-------------------- Evolution of Time.
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im_on_a_boat
Stranger

Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 3,950
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Droz]
#7934680 - 01/26/08 12:10 PM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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a badass song by pink floyd
a magazine
a fundamental quantity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time
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Jack Albertson
bismillah rahmani rahim



Registered: 04/14/06
Posts: 10,065
Loc: SOLARIS
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Droz]
#7934690 - 01/26/08 12:10 PM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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Douglas Adams:
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.
Horace Mann:
Lost, yesterday, somewhere between Sunrise and Sunset, two golden hours, each set with sixty diamond minutes. No reward is offered, for they are gone forever.
Personally i think time is everything. We live by time and worship it. It could be the one true god.
-------------------- Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time TRANSCEND
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ShroomieGirl
What are these god damn animals



Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 1,938
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Droz]
#7934699 - 01/26/08 12:12 PM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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I think time is only a manifestation of man to try and keep order. If we didnt exist, things would happen as they would without any worry of time. We cant change the past, no. But past is only a classification we use that denotes a time line. Yeah, the sun of another galaxy might have exploded, but it cant unexplode just because of the changes that occured in the explosion, not because you cant go back in time.
...did that make any sense?
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I'm ok, really.
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boxcarguy07
Uno



Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 3,942
Loc: SC
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Time in and of itself does not exist. It's a man-made way of measuring distance.
Think about it... time passes. What is that? It's the earth moving around the sun. It's a measure of distance. A year is equal to the distance the earth travels as it orbits the sun.
Another way of looking at it... You ask someone "How far away is (so and so place) from here?" And they respond "About 2 hours" Huh? Time is distance.
--------------------
Music doesn't stop at the ears when it begins at the heart.
"Sit in reverie and watch the changing color of the waves that break upon the idle seashore of the mind." -Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
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trendal
J♠



Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Droz]
#7934721 - 01/26/08 12:17 PM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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Time is a dimension, similar to but different from the three spatial dimensions that we are used to.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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WScott
´ ɑ `▽ ᑲᓇᑕ


Registered: 07/31/05
Posts: 5,713
Loc: Nacada
Last seen: 9 months, 15 days
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: boxcarguy07]
#7934738 - 01/26/08 12:20 PM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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We measure time by the rotation of the earth around our sun; movement through space. Time is arbitrary because there are no absolutes that we can fixate on. The universe is a giant fractal mechanism, and our current disposition towards time is just a small fragment of it.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Droz]
#7934759 - 01/26/08 12:25 PM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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It's a concept which humans use to quantify the gradual changes that occur to what is happening. What is currently happening is reality--everything else is memory and fantasy.
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Jack Albertson
bismillah rahmani rahim



Registered: 04/14/06
Posts: 10,065
Loc: SOLARIS
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: boxcarguy07]
#7934762 - 01/26/08 12:25 PM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
boxcarguy07 said: Time in and of itself does not exist. It's a man-made way of measuring distance.
Think about it... time passes. What is that? It's the earth moving around the sun. It's a measure of distance. A year is equal to the distance the earth travels as it orbits the sun.
Another way of looking at it... You ask someone "How far away is (so and so place) from here?" And they respond "About 2 hours" Huh? Time is distance.
You cant measure age by how may times youve orbited the sun. I dont think man made time, they only try to capture it.
-------------------- Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time TRANSCEND
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'


Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Droz]
#7934770 - 01/26/08 12:26 PM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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People were getting greedy, so Coyote invented time so that they would be busy and not have the opportunity to get bored and accumulative.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Droz]
#7934832 - 01/26/08 12:38 PM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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Someone (not me) once said that time is nature's way of keeping everything from happening all at once.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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deimya
tofu and monocle



Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: ausländer.ch
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Droz]
#7934834 - 01/26/08 12:38 PM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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Time could be a manifestation of the way we are intertwined and entangled with our surrounding, whatever its scale.
Because of the way we are intertwined it then seems to transform according to some known principles from which we built a model; in this context it is convenient to call it a dimension. Still we first postulated its nature from everyday experiences, we did not derive it.
We have yet to derive time and give it an explanation according to some bigger, better, stronger theory. Until then we are stuck with our limited understanding.
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deimya
tofu and monocle



Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: ausländer.ch
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Diploid]
#7934840 - 01/26/08 12:39 PM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Someone (not me) once said that time is nature's way of keeping everything from happening all at once.
That was John Archibald Wheeler if I recall correctly.
Edited by deimya (01/26/08 12:41 PM)
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Diploid]
#7934854 - 01/26/08 12:41 PM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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Probably Woody Allen, though some say that he stole the quote from Einstein.
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backfromthedead
Activated


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Droz]
#7935195 - 01/26/08 01:45 PM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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DURATION
--------------------
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trendal
J♠



Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Droz]
#7937104 - 01/26/08 08:03 PM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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I've got one...try defining distance for me. What is it?
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Jack Albertson
bismillah rahmani rahim



Registered: 04/14/06
Posts: 10,065
Loc: SOLARIS
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: trendal]
#7937219 - 01/26/08 08:28 PM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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distance is space traversed.
-------------------- Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time TRANSCEND
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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I would go for a conventional method that aids one in appreciating certain coordinates.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Veritas]
#7937311 - 01/26/08 08:47 PM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: It's a concept which humans use to quantify the gradual changes that occur to what is happening. What is currently happening is reality--everything else is memory and fantasy.
How about astral projection, is that fantasy as well?
Reality can be experienced not only through the waking state ime.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deranger]
#7937328 - 01/26/08 08:51 PM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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Astral projection has YET to be proven as real (or unreal ) As far as we know by now, it's only a mind thing. And yes, I have experienced it and it feels darn real, but the fact is that, for example, so does schizophrenia.  So yeah, let's stick to what's a fact.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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So yeah, let's stick to what's a fact.
I ain't sticken to nothin 
I think all human experience could be considered real. IMO, consciousness can be experienced through different forms or layers of awareness.
So yeah boys and girls, no more talky about anything thats not fact! Stick to the rules of the classroom!
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deranger]
#7937422 - 01/26/08 09:09 PM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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If you want to talk about anything as being real, I suggest the M&P forum. However, if you want to continue posting here, keep in mind that this a debate forum.  So yeah, we're sticking to what has proven as being real.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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DieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deranger]
#7937532 - 01/26/08 09:27 PM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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"Real" is that which exists outside of human experience and perception. (which is the exact opposite of what you said )
Quote:
trendal said: I've got one...try defining distance for me. What is it?
Good point! An intuitive grasp of distance may seem easier then that of time, but that are each equally elusive. What is distance? What is time? I dont know, but they are related... d=rt
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deranger]
#7937555 - 01/26/08 09:30 PM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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consciousness works as a stream of pattern through intervals of time. when the intervals are short (1/15th second), sober consciousness functions sequentially and is capable of complex coordinations. when intervals are longer, time loses relevance: when intervals of consciousness exceed 2 seconds, time ceases to mean anything sequential and the self begins to take on a multiple overlapping nature.
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_ 🧠 _
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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: DieCommie]
#7937577 - 01/26/08 09:33 PM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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Do any of us know what is really real?
Everything is real.
Nothing is real.
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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: when intervals of consciousness exceed 2 seconds, time ceases to mean anything sequential and the self begins to take on a multiple overlapping nature.
reminds me of salvia
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: trendal]
#7938639 - 01/27/08 12:34 AM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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Distance is nature's way of keeping things from getting too crowded.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Jack Albertson
bismillah rahmani rahim



Registered: 04/14/06
Posts: 10,065
Loc: SOLARIS
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Diploid]
#7938659 - 01/27/08 12:40 AM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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can people not prove points without emoticons anymore? Not to say that i dont use them, but it is kinda ridiculous and belittling at times.
-------------------- Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time TRANSCEND
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DieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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An emoticon is worth a thousand words... or at least a couple words.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: DieCommie]
#7938787 - 01/27/08 01:14 AM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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True true, without emoticons the world would be smaller.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Without emoticons, the distance between paragraphs would be shorter.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Fugai
Stranger

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 80
Loc: Orygun
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Droz]
#7938997 - 01/27/08 02:57 AM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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I didn't take the time to read every responce in this thread so what I have to say may have already been said. Sorry if it has, but hasn't it always . Time is a signifier for the measurement of the awareness of change in any events. So that percieved events can be distinguished by a mutual unit of comparison. Without which there is no determineability. The perception of progression implies linearity, but this is an incorrect assumption. Event A seems to lead to event B which leads to C etcetera, but ultimately all events are interdetermineable, and so are not actually seperate events. The temporality of our Being is the reason for the false perception. Because our awareness is by design incapable of percieving of all events at once. This false perception is why a mutual unit of comparison is needed, because determineability is required for comparison or discussion for that matter .
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Blend
afferent orchestra



Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 2,949
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said: If you want to talk about anything as being real, I suggest the M&P forum. However, if you want to continue posting here, keep in mind that this a debate forum.  So yeah, we're sticking to what has proven as being real.
Real? What do you mean by that? Is it not a well-known FACT that all FACTS have to be based upon ASSUMPTIONS? Where is this line between what is real and what is unreal? Is time real? Is your opinion real? How can it be, it cannot be proven to exist.  It's just that I often see you telling people to stick to fact. But who is to say whether or not time is real? Or astral travel is real? My anger for your posts is real? Can any of this be 'proven' by science to be a definite thing? No. Science cannot give us a definite definition for 'definite.' I understand your point and everything, but if no one ever thought out of the box, they'd just be stuck in it. If scientists didn't make assumptions, we'd still believe the earth is flat. If they even got that far. You can't trap yourself within your own limits and expect to get anywhere. The quest for knowledge isn't equal to being stagnant - it's the exact opposite.
Not a personal attack. Just an argument. If you can't handle an argument, I suggest you check out the M&P forum.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Blend]
#7939289 - 01/27/08 08:05 AM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Real? What do you mean by that? Is it not a well-known FACT that all FACTS have to be based upon ASSUMPTIONS? Where is this line between what is real and what is unreal? Is time real? Is your opinion real? How can it be, it cannot be proven to exist. 
The line between real and unreal is evidence. Reliable evidence. That's how you define and separate the is from might be and might not be and other degrees. I am sure you can comprehend this as well as the nuances.  My opinion is considered real when it is proven to exist. Let's say that right now, considering the situation, my opinion is located somewhere in the "might be" section. If I were to talk face to face with someone, the situation might be more evident and the existence of my opinion can easily pass to the stage of "is" Until now, astral projection has not been proven. Now, you could say that it could exist in the "might be" section, but then, considering that there have been done some tests and measurements to determine it's authenticity and that it failed miserably, I will take the liberty to say that we could find it in the "might not be" section.
Quote:
It's just that I often see you telling people to stick to fact. But who is to say whether or not time is real? Or astral travel is real? My anger for your posts is real?
Your anger for my posts might be real, for me it is not. For you, it apparently is and I wish you good luck with all that since you are the master of your emotions. Perhaps you'd allow me to suggest to invest in some anger management techniques? 
Quote:
Can any of this be 'proven' by science to be a definite thing?
Everything is relative, there's no definite, but there exists "more likely" and "less likely". For example, we could start assuming that, since we resemble so much with monkeys, we come from monkeys as well. And there is a considerable amount of reliable evidence to sustain that. Now we can't argue with the certain degree of certainty that dust bunnies had sex with wonder woman in order to create a new and improved generation of super heroes, can we? 
Quote:
No. Science cannot give us a definite definition for 'definite.' I understand your point and everything, but if no one ever thought out of the box, they'd just be stuck in it. If scientists didn't make assumptions, we'd still believe the earth is flat. If they even got that far. You can't trap yourself within your own limits and expect to get anywhere. The quest for knowledge isn't equal to being stagnant - it's the exact opposite.
Read all the above.
Quote:
Not a personal attack. Just an argument. If you can't handle an argument, I suggest you check out the M&P forum. 
See? These kinds of assumptions are exactly what we should avoid when we try a philosophical approach. You have insufficient data regarding my emotional status so you can't be definite in concluding that I can't handle this argument. As you can see, I'm handling it pretty well.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said: As you can see, I'm handling it pretty well.
You've handled it in a very delusional manner.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Care to provide with some evidence?
--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Jack Albertson
bismillah rahmani rahim



Registered: 04/14/06
Posts: 10,065
Loc: SOLARIS
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-------------------- Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time TRANSCEND
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deranger]
#7939503 - 01/27/08 09:52 AM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
SyntheticMInd said:
Quote:
Veritas said: It's a concept which humans use to quantify the gradual changes that occur to what is happening. What is currently happening is reality--everything else is memory and fantasy.
How about astral projection, is that fantasy as well?
Reality can be experienced not only through the waking state ime.
What does this have to do with what I posted? If astral projection actually happens, then it is reality & not fantasy. If it happened in the past, and is not happening in this moment, then it is memory. If it does not actually happen, then it is fantasy.
As to whether we experience reality when we are asleep or unconscious, I would say that we experience what is happening inside our own minds, which is real to us, but it is highly unlikely that we experience anything which could be verified by anyone else as real.
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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Veritas]
#7939567 - 01/27/08 10:11 AM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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Sorry, misinterpretation on my part.
Quote:
As to whether we experience reality when we are asleep or unconscious
The thing with astral projection is that it doesn't really happen when asleep or unconscious. It feels more conscious than the ordinary waking state. It makes everything that was once considered "real" in the waking state seem like complete illusion.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deranger]
#7939591 - 01/27/08 10:21 AM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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Well, we really don't know for certain whether astral projection actually happens. From the tests that have been conducted so far, it seems that it does not.
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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Veritas]
#7939710 - 01/27/08 11:07 AM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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Well it is purely a subjective phenomena, so it seems pretty pointless to even try to prove it objectivelly. Call me a subjective scientist
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soulcircus
Stranger


Registered: 05/09/06
Posts: 1,300
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Re: What exactly is TIME? *DELETED* [Re: Veritas]
#7939741 - 01/27/08 11:16 AM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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Post deleted by soulcircusReason for deletion: .
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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: soulcircus]
#7939756 - 01/27/08 11:23 AM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
soulcircus said:but yeah i won't hijack the thread.
understanding astral projection has a lot to do with understanding the inner workings of time though. especially deep psychedelic states where 1 second can seem like eternity. experience in these areas have a lot to do with the topic of this thread, human language and thought alone will only provide one with a certain level of understanding of the nature of time.
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deimya
tofu and monocle



Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: ausländer.ch
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deranger]
#7939783 - 01/27/08 11:30 AM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
SyntheticMInd said: experience in these areas have a lot to do with the topic of this thread, human language and thought alone will only provide one with a certain level of understanding of the nature of time.
A good, mathematically sound, theory from which one derive the concept of time goes a long way in understanding its nature. We haven't reach the limit of human language yet. We may be stuck, but not yet limited. Unless someone produces a "Gödelesque" chain of idea to prove that it is unprovable or something of the kind, then I'll stay optimist about the prospect of a better understanding of the nature of time and of many other things.
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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deimya]
#7939824 - 01/27/08 11:37 AM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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I just don't understand how we can understand our nature through our conditioning (language). It just makes more sense to me to connect with our roots to understand our nature. To travel inwards behind our creation and conditioning to realize what we're all about. Realization is more powerful than any human concept or mathematical equation, not matter how complex it is imo.
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deimya
tofu and monocle



Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: ausländer.ch
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deranger]
#7939896 - 01/27/08 11:52 AM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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I agree, although many of these realisations can and should be communicated, or at least the path leading to it, or at the very least a direction toward the path. The first step is the realisation, but once you have it what do you do ?
In my opinion, the best way to reliably share deep insights about nature still is through a logical, or at least coherent explanation, that is using language or through mathematics, which if done correctly encompass both.
But still you are right, the subjective reality of one's thoughts, ideas and experiences is best at convincing oneself.
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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deimya]
#7940111 - 01/27/08 12:40 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
deimya said: I agree, although many of these realisations can and should be communicated, or at least the path leading to it, or at the very least a direction toward the path. The first step is the realisation, but once you have it what do you do ?
Figure out how these realizations can be integrated into the waking state and be experienced more often. Develop awareness...
Quote:
In my opinion, the best way to reliably share deep insights about nature still is through a logical, or at least coherent explanation, that is using language or through mathematics, which if done correctly encompass both.
I agree, developing a language and math could certainly help us out in many ways. But on a personal level I couldn't find it beneficial to my own understanding.
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VisualLearner
Stranger

Registered: 01/11/08
Posts: 459
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deranger]
#7940494 - 01/27/08 02:17 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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Alan Watts helped me understand a lot about time and space!
and also the meaning of life is life is meaningless.
--------------------
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BlueCoyote
Beyond



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Posts: 6,697
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Droz]
#7941199 - 01/27/08 04:29 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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Time simply is movement.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deranger]
#7941222 - 01/27/08 04:33 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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So yeah boys and girls, no more talky about anything thats not fact! Stick to the rules of the classroom!
You don't have to stick to the facts here. It would however be mature if you didn't whine when people challenged your non-facts.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deranger]
#7941245 - 01/27/08 04:37 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
SyntheticMInd said: I just don't understand how we can understand our nature through our conditioning (language). It just makes more sense to me to connect with our roots to understand our nature. To travel inwards behind our creation and conditioning to realize what we're all about. Realization is more powerful than any human concept or mathematical equation, not matter how complex it is imo.
And how exactly do you know we aren't "realizing" everything all along here? Like our ability to think mathematically and conceptually? These are the realizations of our humanness as much as any journey to our "roots", whatever that means.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deranger]
#7941256 - 01/27/08 04:39 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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understanding astral projection has a lot to do with understanding the inner workings of time though. especially deep psychedelic states where 1 second can seem like eternity
I think a study in how the human brain operates would be more revealing as to how we experience time.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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deimya
tofu and monocle



Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: ausländer.ch
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: BlueCoyote]
#7941262 - 01/27/08 04:41 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
BlueCoyote said: Time simply is movement.
But if you explain time with movement, which at first makes sense, then with what do you explain movement without circular reasoning ? There was this J. A. Wheeler who certainly was onto something with his geometrodynamics for which he coined "Space without space, time without time, mass without mass". Unfortunately his theory was falsified. Fortunately his ideas live on.
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BlueCoyote
Beyond



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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deimya]
#7941456 - 01/27/08 05:25 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
deimya said:
Quote:
BlueCoyote said: Time simply is movement.
But if you explain time with movement, which at first makes sense, then with what do you explain movement without circular reasoning ? There was this J. A. Wheeler who certainly was onto something with his geometrodynamics for which he coined "Space without space, time without time, mass without mass". Unfortunately his theory was falsified. Fortunately his ideas live on.
Hmm without circular reasoning ? Movement is the spatial change of potential.
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deimya
tofu and monocle



Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: ausländer.ch
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: BlueCoyote]
#7941555 - 01/27/08 05:40 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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Mmm, a spatial change in potential, aka a potential gradient, gives rise to a (conservative to be precise) force, and this force will bring about change in movement. Time, here again, is taken for granted to make sense of movement.
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BlueCoyote
Beyond



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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deimya]
#7941570 - 01/27/08 05:43 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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I see it as inherently one. Without movement, no time.
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deimya
tofu and monocle



Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: ausländer.ch
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: BlueCoyote]
#7941632 - 01/27/08 05:53 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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I agree. That's why I would like them to appear by themselves out of less trivial assumptions. But that's just me.
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BlueCoyote
Beyond



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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deimya]
#7941670 - 01/27/08 06:00 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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Hehe, any less trivial assumption is made up
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deimya
tofu and monocle



Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: ausländer.ch
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: BlueCoyote]
#7941764 - 01/27/08 06:16 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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And so do most of the better assumptions since they defy common sense. But yeah, what I meant is that it is trivial because throughout history, many took time for granted, many deeply questioned it, some did came out with interesting insights, yet without in my opinion ever really answering OP's question in a satisfactory way. From all explanation I hear I do not feel like I know that I know about time. Again that's just me and I would never claim to know enough about history or philosophy for these general statements I am making here to really hold strong.
Edited by deimya (01/27/08 06:17 PM)
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Boots
Disenchanted


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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deranger]
#7941953 - 01/27/08 06:44 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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I read something interesting in my Psychology book last night about our internal clocks that let us know when our bodies need to sleep. The text said that the average 'day', according to our internal clocks is actually 24 hours and eight minutes.
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea


Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Droz]
#7942186 - 01/27/08 07:27 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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Time=Movement
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ShroomFan
nn dmt

Registered: 03/12/04
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Ego Death]
#7942293 - 01/27/08 07:47 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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a concept, the measurement of movement
-------------------- Fellow Shroomerites, if you Love expressing yourself with a dope tee shirt feast your 3rd eye on www.facebook.com/vicereversa ∞ Conscious Clothing for Conscious Minds ∞ Wear a tee , open a mind Each shirt is spawned to Arouse Awareness <> We believe in Sustainability & Giving back <> Do you know of a community project or persons in need you feel deserves attention? - Tell us on our page And we just might pick the story > develop a tee > and donate the proceeds to that cause. ∞♥∞ Unget it, VICE REVERSA
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
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Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Droz]
#7942701 - 01/27/08 09:04 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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A weird property of time is that there is a minimum amount of time which makes sense. It's called the Planck Time. It's the time it takes light to travel one Planck Length which is also very short, many billions of times shorter than the diameter of a proton.
One Planck Time is on the order of 10^-44 seconds. That's really, really brief.
As far as we know, it is meaningless to consider any length of time shorter than that. Doing so gives rise to nonsensical results in all the equations that have time as a parameter. Things like square root of -1 (which is an imaginary number) unit mass.
This is a consequence of the quantization of nature. According to quantum mechanics (and this has been consistently verified by ~100 years of experiments and observations), there exists a minimum action in nature. Nothing smaller can ever happen.
This quantization of nature leads to the above result and also to some very deep philosophical implications. For example, it is meaningless to consider the interval of time (or anything earlier than) between the creation of the universe and the passing of the very first Planck Time. The earliest point in time in the existence of the universe that is accessible to science (so far as we can tell) is called the Planck Epoch, or one Planck Time 'after' the Bang.
Weird science!
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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igwna
The Cap'n


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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Boots]
#7942886 - 01/27/08 09:38 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Boots said: I read something interesting in my Psychology book last night about our internal clocks that let us know when our bodies need to sleep. The text said that the average 'day', according to our internal clocks is actually 24 hours and eight minutes.
probably cause thats like earths rotations with the sun and we were born and completely accustomed to this..
to explain what time is, simply put:
Time is nothing more than a type of measurement for how long something takes to be completed (or not).
I, personally, don't feel time exists unless someone/thing tries to measure it.
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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igwna
The Cap'n


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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: igwna]
#7942894 - 01/27/08 09:40 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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another interesting fact is: outside of the suns gravitational pull, a second is a year or something like that.
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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tthom580
Stranger
Registered: 01/08/08
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: igwna]
#7943002 - 01/27/08 09:56 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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I think time is just energy. If there was no energy being expended, then what would let you know that time passed? If everything stood still, nothing moved, there was no light from the sun, then there would be no time because there would be nothing happening to signify that time had passed. For that to happen there would have to be complete nothingness though, because even matter is made of energy.
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



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Quote:
ts727 said:
   :(  :sm:t humbup:irk: :w i nk:

Spelling makes more of a difference when trying to express yourself with emoticons....!
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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igwna
The Cap'n


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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: tthom580]
#7943020 - 01/27/08 09:58 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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thats a really interesting though.
what keeps everything from completely standing still?
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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im_on_a_boat
Stranger

Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 3,950
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: igwna]
#7943100 - 01/27/08 10:18 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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or a better question..
what is the OPPOSITE of time?
chaos?
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tthom580
Stranger
Registered: 01/08/08
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Chaos is kind of broad. Not sure what you mean. I think the opposite of time is nothingness. A void where there's no energy, no matter, nothing that time is made up of and nothing to manifest itself in.
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igwna
The Cap'n


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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: tthom580]
#7943412 - 01/27/08 11:53 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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the opposite of time would, seemingly enough be like everything is frozen all the time.
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: igwna]
#7943413 - 01/27/08 11:53 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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another interesting fact is: outside of the suns gravitational pull, a second is a year or something like that.
Eh? This is not true. Who told you that? And can I have some of whatever you're smoking?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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igwna
The Cap'n


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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Diploid]
#7943426 - 01/27/08 11:58 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: another interesting fact is: outside of the suns gravitational pull, a second is a year or something like that.
Eh? This is not true. Who told you that? And can I have some of whatever you're smoking?
its not true? i was fairly certain it was. mis-information i guess.
i accidently bought camel turkihs golds smooth and mellow so they suck, i dont think you want any. but i;ll share if you want.. i'm waiting a week to buy a new pack to justify the wasted 5.35$
sorry for the mis-info everyone.. i would look into this though because i thought i read it somewhere.
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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DimensionX
King of Birds


Registered: 09/26/07
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: igwna]
#7943627 - 01/28/08 12:48 AM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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I think of time as a dimension of space. A fundamental part of the way space functions. If you think of space as a cube it has the three dimensions we see everyday: height, width and depth. Add to this another dimension which is time, which kind of turns space into a forward moving slide show. One thing about time is that you can see that it moves forwards not backwards. For example, you see a glass fall off a table and watch it break. But you will never see a glass hit the floor and break, then miraculously come back together and fly back up onto the table. People are born, age and then die. You do not see them die, become young, then get born. So in this way time is more than just a measurement of distance but also a part of the way events within space function.
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Fugai
Stranger


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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: igwna]
#7943643 - 01/28/08 12:50 AM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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no one responded to my summation so I decided to post it again. It seems the discussion has drifted a bit. I would like to know if anyone could rebut my response to the original question.
Time is a signifier for the measurement of the awareness of change in any events. So that perceived events can be distinguished by a mutual unit of comparison. Without which there is no determinability. The perception of progression implies linearity, but this is an incorrect assumption. Event A seems to lead to event B which leads to C etcetera, but ultimately all events are interdeterminable, and so are not actually separate events. The temporality of our Being is the reason for the false perception. Because our awareness is by design incapable of perceiving of all events at once. This false perception is why a mutual unit of comparison is needed, because determinability is required for comparison or discussion for that matter
-------------------- Principles of acceptance * People do not progress by being questioned, they progress by questioning themselves. * When ready for the answer, people will come to the question of themselves.
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DimensionX
King of Birds


Registered: 09/26/07
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Fugai]
#7943662 - 01/28/08 12:58 AM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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Thats an interesting idea fugai, if we had different perception we could see the progression of events in a different form, possibly not as progression at all but as one giant event. So you mean that since the size of the gap between each event is impossible to calculate it is really just one big event not many separate linear events?
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ShroomFan
nn dmt

Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 866
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Quote:
drkrobotnik said: or a better question..
what is the OPPOSITE of time?
chaos?
a great question
-------------------- Fellow Shroomerites, if you Love expressing yourself with a dope tee shirt feast your 3rd eye on www.facebook.com/vicereversa ∞ Conscious Clothing for Conscious Minds ∞ Wear a tee , open a mind Each shirt is spawned to Arouse Awareness <> We believe in Sustainability & Giving back <> Do you know of a community project or persons in need you feel deserves attention? - Tell us on our page And we just might pick the story > develop a tee > and donate the proceeds to that cause. ∞♥∞ Unget it, VICE REVERSA
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: igwna]
#7943862 - 01/28/08 02:41 AM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
skcorrelyt said:
Quote:
Boots said: I read something interesting in my Psychology book last night about our internal clocks that let us know when our bodies need to sleep. The text said that the average 'day', according to our internal clocks is actually 24 hours and eight minutes.
probably cause thats like earths rotations with the sun and we were born and completely accustomed to this..
As far as I can recall, the length of a day is twenty-three hours and fifty-four minutes long, or perhaps twenty-three hours and fifty-six minutes long. This is, of course, why February has an extra day every four years, instead of its missing a day or so, which would be the case if what you say is true.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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igwna
The Cap'n


Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 8,016
Loc: New England, USA
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Quote:
skcorrelyt said:
Quote:
Boots said: I read something interesting in my Psychology book last night about our internal clocks that let us know when our bodies need to sleep. The text said that the average 'day', according to our internal clocks is actually 24 hours and eight minutes.
probably cause thats like earths rotations with the sun and we were born and completely accustomed to this..
As far as I can recall, the length of a day is twenty-three hours and fifty-four minutes long, or perhaps twenty-three hours and fifty-six minutes long. This is, of course, why February has an extra day every four years, instead of its missing a day or so, which would be the case if what you say is true.
i didn't think he was talking exacts. so i figured he meant the exact time of a day on earth, which would make a lot more sense to me seeing as what i said (which is logical) would better fit. i thought everyone would get the picture and not need to take it so literally.
but you know what they say about assumptions...
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: igwna]
#7944239 - 01/28/08 08:16 AM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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Well, if our internal clock was twenty-hours and eight minutes, then that sounds like a pretty exact number, and all I did was point out that what he was referring to did not relate exactly with what you stated. Anyways, it is regardless because different people have different internal clocks, not all of them match with that of others, and not all of them correspond with the earth's revolutions.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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what is the OPPOSITE of time?
There is no opposite of time. Not all things have opposites.
What's the opposite of green?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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DieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Diploid]
#7944257 - 01/28/08 08:27 AM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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The opposite of time is Hertz. And the opposite of green is brown.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Diploid]
#7944489 - 01/28/08 09:51 AM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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pattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Droz]
#7944506 - 01/28/08 09:55 AM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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The more I ponder time, the more I conclude time is related to energy, like a fuel.
Maybe energy is composed of time.
What Is Time?
-------------------- man = monkey + mushroom
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Droz
Love of Life



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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: pattern]
#7944509 - 01/28/08 09:57 AM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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Time can be measured.
You can study the decay of human life and other animals.
What needs to be done is longer life research. Edit the brain or edit the body through genetic alterations.
Gotta run!
Peace, Droz
-------------------- Evolution of Time.
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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Icelander]
#7944769 - 01/28/08 11:01 AM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: So yeah boys and girls, no more talky about anything thats not fact! Stick to the rules of the classroom!
You don't have to stick to the facts here. It would however be mature if you didn't whine when people challenged your non-facts.
It was more of a laugh at those authoritative individuals who order people around and like to sound like the teacher of the classroom. Doesn't make up for good philosophical chat if you ask me.
Quote:
And how exactly do you know we aren't "realizing" everything all along here? Like our ability to think mathematically and conceptually? These are the realizations of our humanness as much as any journey to our "roots", whatever that means.
Self-realization is not about being identified with our conditioning imo. Mathematics and concept are of our creation, not of what was before our creation. Yes we can come up with realizations that have to do with math, but that is a different subject.
Quote:
I think a study in how the human brain operates would be more revealing as to how we experience time.
And I think experience would lead to a better understanding. I guess this is where we part.
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TheCow
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: DieCommie]
#7944775 - 01/28/08 11:02 AM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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If by opposite you mean taking the inner product with respect to the orthonormal Hilbert space basis functions and the function, multiplied by the basis function and integrating over all time to get a function expressed in the frequency domain, then Id agree
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deranger]
#7945030 - 01/28/08 12:06 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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It was more of a laugh
I saw no laughing emoticon. I think you were whining.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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im_on_a_boat
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Diploid]
#7945212 - 01/28/08 12:50 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: what is the OPPOSITE of time?
There is no opposite of time. Not all things have opposites.
What's the opposite of green?
i never said that it had an opposite nor inferred that..
the opposite of green is red.

it depends on which medium you are considering when comparing the opposite.
stopping to ponder and i think that the opposite of green would be the absence of green or anti-green. think of colorblindness, they see the opposite of green. but green is a color and color is a "byproduct on the spectrum of light" so the opposite of green would be the absence of light. at least that's my thoughts and i'm sticking to it.
i'm not against you diploid, i agree with what you're saying i really meant it to try to rephrase the person that posted before me's question and to possibly spark a little speculation.
you say 'not all things have opposites' well you would have to reason time as a thing in order for it to have an opposite. i dont feel it is a 'thing' but more of a principle or a concept in which it would not have an opposite. i was just interested in what responses would be to that question is all. so i think we are in agreement at least for different reasons 
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BlueCoyote
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Diploid]
#7945264 - 01/28/08 01:05 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: what is the OPPOSITE of time?
There is no opposite of time. Not all things have opposites.
What's the opposite of green?
Not so true  We can't imagine an opposite of time, but it could be a neat concept, called anti-time  Just because we don't know or can't imagine it yet, doesn't strictly imply that it does not exist. Perhaps it's inherent around us all the 'time' and we just aren't able to identify it.
The opposite of green is just quite a question of definition. To what should the opposite result to ? Black ? White ? Grey ? In a composite or a complomentary way ? Let's just take their frequencies and make a definition 
Just playing
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Fugai
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: DimensionX]
#7945450 - 01/28/08 01:53 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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DimensionX - Because our Being is temporal, awareness seems to be linear. This, and the very fact that prehension requires determinability, makes events seem to unfold in a linear progression. This is not to say that there is not an "unfolding". But that there is only this " unfolding event" not unfolding events. In-fact it is this prehencive faculty that causes the appearance of a "gap" in events. But in essence there is no gap, because even in a linear progression each event is causal and can be divided into smaller event ad infinitum. Does that answer your question? I ask because I'm not sure myself, my thoughts are often so convoluted. I appreciate you at least acknowledging my summation. I think your the only one who actually read it. Everyone else seems to be having some side conversation about how we measure time, not what time is itself.
Also for everyone who reads this, I am aware prehencive is not an actual term, but it does follow correct grammatical form and is easily understood in its context. So lets not have nit-picking over dialectic please
-------------------- Principles of acceptance * People do not progress by being questioned, they progress by questioning themselves. * When ready for the answer, people will come to the question of themselves.
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im_on_a_boat
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Fugai]
#7945495 - 01/28/08 02:02 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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big words.
small post count.
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justamonkey
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Fugai]
#7945511 - 01/28/08 02:05 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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Time is a tool that people argue way too much about. Its kind of like a screwdriver, the longer we have it, the more we argue about it's true purpose, origin, and whether or not it has any true definition.
-------------------- [quote]We don't need anyone to teach us sorcery, because there is really nothing to learn. What we need is a teacher to convince us that there is incalculable power at our fingertips. What a strange paradox! Every warrior on the path of knowledge thinks, at one time or another, that he's learning sorcery, but all he's doing is allowing himself to be convinced of the power hidden in his being, and that he can reach it. [/quote]-Carlos Casteneda
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Icelander
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Quote:
drkrobotnik said: big words.
small post count.
Unlike some with nothing to say yet post away.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: justamonkey]
#7945522 - 01/28/08 02:09 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
justamonkey said: Time is a tool that people argue way too much about. Its kind of like a screwdriver, the longer we have it, the more we argue about it's true purpose, origin, and whether or not it has any true definition.
Why bring alcohol into this?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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justamonkey
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Quote:
drkrobotnik said: big words.
small post count.
I don't really see how that's relevant to anything. Post Count? The odometer of energy wasted in futile attempt to change a large number of total stranger's minds? C'mon, you might as well tell me my opinion doesn't count because its not the same as yours. 
One of these days someone's going to realize that Time, like Big, Little, Fat, Small, Green and Brown, is relative to the observer, and so is only a label, an agreement for the situation at hand.
What are we all agreeing on? Well, if you want the definition of time (which is all time can be) then time is a measurement of duration. Someone decided to wait a given interval and call that a 'second' and then make sixty of those a 'minute' and so on.
Time, essentially, is the neat division of the constant 'Now' that is perception into a few seconds ago and a few seconds from 'Now' and so on. Essentially, time is a giant ruler that is sliding under you're feet, and you're not moving, because you will never be able to perceive anything except for right 'Now'
In a sense, time is a waste of itself.
Tear the above apart, I can't explain it really if the above doesn't work, try subjecting yourself to near death experiences repeatedly, at worst you'll die and find out what everyone's so curious about.
-------------------- [quote]We don't need anyone to teach us sorcery, because there is really nothing to learn. What we need is a teacher to convince us that there is incalculable power at our fingertips. What a strange paradox! Every warrior on the path of knowledge thinks, at one time or another, that he's learning sorcery, but all he's doing is allowing himself to be convinced of the power hidden in his being, and that he can reach it. [/quote]-Carlos Casteneda
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justamonkey
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Icelander]
#7945596 - 01/28/08 02:26 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
justamonkey said: Time is a tool that people argue way too much about. Its kind of like a screwdriver, the longer we have it, the more we argue about it's true purpose, origin, and whether or not it has any true definition.
Why bring alcohol into this?
..the screwdriver, which tastes like orange juice but is considerably more potent, is believed to have originated with American oil workers in Iran who drank vodka and orange juice, stirring it with screwdrivers they carried attached to their fatigue pants by loops
Alcohol is a good way to measure time!
-------------------- [quote]We don't need anyone to teach us sorcery, because there is really nothing to learn. What we need is a teacher to convince us that there is incalculable power at our fingertips. What a strange paradox! Every warrior on the path of knowledge thinks, at one time or another, that he's learning sorcery, but all he's doing is allowing himself to be convinced of the power hidden in his being, and that he can reach it. [/quote]-Carlos Casteneda
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Icelander
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: justamonkey]
#7945611 - 01/28/08 02:29 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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smart ass
(I like it )
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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igwna
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Quote:
fireworks_god said: Well, if our internal clock was twenty-hours and eight minutes, then that sounds like a pretty exact number, and all I did was point out that what he was referring to did not relate exactly with what you stated. Anyways, it is regardless because different people have different internal clocks, not all of them match with that of others, and not all of them correspond with the earth's revolutions.
yes twenty-hours and eight minutes does sound pretty exact but he didnt really sound too sure of it. so i was going out on a guess that he meant the exact number of hours in a day (because twenty hours is pretty close to 24). and if our natural internal clock is what he says, then i would say it does matter, at least a little.
meaning they could be naturally 23 hours and however many minutes you said, fifty-six? i can't remember. i have done no research and have only really just been speculating. throwing out idea's. philosophizing if you will.
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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Fugai
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: justamonkey]
#7945930 - 01/28/08 03:56 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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Thats sad drkrobotnik, you have no rebuttal, so you instead try to illegitimize the proponent rather than the view. I have heard it said that sarcasm is the recourse of a weak mind, but that too is always up for interpretation. By the way though, I have been a member of this community off and on for more than 8 years. Thank you Icelander for your defence. And Justamonkey you are correct to a degree. But I think you fall into the trap of fatal reductionism. Your summation that time is the measurement of duration is correct, but you must ask duration of what? The duration itself is Time, so you see you have reduced Time to the measurement of itself. What distinguishes separate events? If there were no change, there would be no distinction, therefor no difference, therefor no separate events. Time (whatever we may say it is) requires both Change and the Awareness of it. If there is no awareness of change, there is no duration. And so again, I say Time is the measurement of Change. Or in other words the unit of mutual comparison between perceived events. Refer back to my previous two posts for a more in-depth summation, I don't want to have to type it over and over. Can anyone see a fallacy? I would like the opportunity to discuss this. Collectively we should be able to come up with an absolute statement about this particular relation. I know we can, and anyway its fun to try
-------------------- Principles of acceptance * People do not progress by being questioned, they progress by questioning themselves. * When ready for the answer, people will come to the question of themselves.
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PhanTomCat
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Diploid]
#7945933 - 01/28/08 03:56 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: what is the OPPOSITE of time? . There is no opposite of time. Not all things have opposites.
The opposite of time would be no-time.... Right....? And the only time that there was no-time is speculated to be the singularity theory....
Eeehhhh.....? 
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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Fugai
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: igwna]
#7945984 - 01/28/08 04:08 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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skcorrelyt - our biology is indeed liked to cycles. But our "internal Clock" is entirely dependent on external factors, our environment. These cycles can be used to measure time, given that they are constant and allow for a mutual unit of comparison between events in our own biology and in the environment. What we are cannot be separated from our environment, if we were subject to different cycles our biology would be equally different. The measurement of those cycles, while equally important and interesting a conversation. Is not what Time is in and of itself.
-------------------- Principles of acceptance * People do not progress by being questioned, they progress by questioning themselves. * When ready for the answer, people will come to the question of themselves.
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igwna
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Fugai]
#7946265 - 01/28/08 05:07 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Fugai said: skcorrelyt - our biology is indeed liked to cycles. But our "internal Clock" is entirely dependent on external factors, our environment. These cycles can be used to measure time, given that they are constant and allow for a mutual unit of comparison between events in our own biology and in the environment. What we are cannot be separated from our environment, if we were subject to different cycles our biology would be equally different. The measurement of those cycles, while equally important and interesting a conversation. Is not what Time is in and of itself.
you're acting like this wasn't my point. what me and fireworks are discussing is merely a speculation i had that someone in an earlier post was talking about our bodies internal clock being on a 20 hour and 8 minute clock when i said that it would make sense for our internal clocks to be linked to the time of hours/minutes in a day.
i merely was trying throw out the idea that our bodies natural internal clock might have something to do with the time it takes for the earth to make a complete rotation. which fireworks brought to my attention as 23 hours and 56 minutes.
fireworks was correcting me with exact numbers when it was unnecessary, as my idea wasn't meant to be taken with exact numbers..
i assumed everyone would get what i was throwing out but i have learned i basically have to spell things out on the shroomery.
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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Fugai
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: igwna]
#7946418 - 01/28/08 05:35 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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Yes you just might have to skycorrelyt, especially when what your saying has nothing to do with the original question "What is time". Considering there are over 100 posts already, why would I or anyone else keep track of your side conversation when it has no bearing on what is being discussed. Try and keep up
-------------------- Principles of acceptance * People do not progress by being questioned, they progress by questioning themselves. * When ready for the answer, people will come to the question of themselves.
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Diploid
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the opposite of green is red
Nope. Your anthropocentric diagram notwithstanding, red is a wavelength of ~650nm. Green is a wavelength of ~510nm.
Nether is the opposite of the other.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Diploid
Cuban



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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Diploid]
#7946634 - 01/28/08 06:17 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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Here's a better illustration:
What's the opposite of Middle C on the piano?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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im_on_a_boat
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Icelander]
#7946683 - 01/28/08 06:26 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
drkrobotnik said: big words.
small post count.
Unlike some with nothing to say yet post away.
whoa i wasn't flaming buddy just making an observation
more like 'damn this kid is pretty smart.. maybe he should post more' or 'wow he's pretty intellectual for having such a small amount of posts'
why would i come into p&s and flame someone for voicing their opinions/beliefs/concepts/hypotheses?
but you gotta be a dick and take it the wrong way.. and then flame.
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im_on_a_boat
Stranger

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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Diploid]
#7946690 - 01/28/08 06:27 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: the opposite of green is red
Nope. Your anthropocentric diagram notwithstanding, red is a wavelength of ~650nm. Green is a wavelength of ~510nm.
Nether is the opposite of the other.
lolz get ME!
i'm getting the fuck outta this forum.
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Diploid]
#7946699 - 01/28/08 06:29 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Here's a better illustration:
What's the opposite of Middle C on the piano?
All vibration obeys the circular law of octaves so in a way F# is the 'opposite' of C.
I know what you're saying though, how can a node have an opposite in an infinite spectrum?
Heavy.
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Diploid
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Middleman]
#7946721 - 01/28/08 06:32 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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Like with the color wheel, this is an anthropic illusion.
Remove the distortion of human perception and Middle C is simply 440 Hz. What's the opposite of 440 Hz?
Heavy.
Yep!
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Diploid]
#7946732 - 01/28/08 06:35 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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The law of octaves is beyond anthropic though..
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WScott
´ ɑ `▽ ᑲᓇᑕ


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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Middleman]
#7946750 - 01/28/08 06:37 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Middleman said:
Quote:
Diploid said: Here's a better illustration:
What's the opposite of Middle C on the piano?
All vibration obeys the circular law of octaves so in a way F# is the 'opposite' of C.
I know what you're saying though, how can a node have an opposite in an infinite spectrum?
Heavy.
Would it make sense to say that octaves (colour, sound) are based off of a helix sytem? If so, an opposite wouldn't exist unless there was, at the least, a double helix.
--------------------

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DimensionX
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Fugai]
#7947136 - 01/28/08 07:34 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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Fungai-
If we are thinking on a similar track i think time could be compared to numbers and the idea of infinity. We think of numbers as separate events: 1,2,3. But really the gap between 1 and 2 when using decimals can be seen as infinite: 1.000000... you can place an infinite amount of decimals after the one and never quite get to two. When you view numbers from an infinite perspective there is no set gap between each one so they dont really exist in the same way we normally think of them. But since most of the time we dont think from an infinite perspective we are able to divide each event, object and number into separate items and place them in a set point in space. But if you think of space as infinite, there is no such thing as a set point.
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Fugai
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: DimensionX]
#7947376 - 01/28/08 08:08 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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DimensionX - You are correct in terms of the view of numbers and what they actually represent. Because in fact if you think about it there is really only 0 and 1, any other number is just the "name" for that many 1's. Also you are correct in viewing space as infinite, and as such saying that there could be no set point. The only set point, in essence, would be the point of reference. And this should be understood fully. Because it means that the existence and thus discussion of any thing/event requires both the Object as perceived and the Objective perceiver!! But also equally important is the system by which we mutually distinguish events/things, i.e. language. The point of reference has a great deal to do with our conception of both Time and Form/Being. Numbers are a great way to illustrate the point, because it is a language after all. In that modal No-thing/event (or Awareness) would be 0, Some-thing/event would be represented by 1. The progressive integers (2-infinitum) would represent the thing/event as it changes/progresses. The progression from 1-infinitum is what we would call Time, at least in this model as we are now discussing it. A side thought of mine is that we could also define the system of inter-determinability (unit of mutual distinguish-ability) as 2. Which would also make sense in this model, because 2 is the value/integer by which all others (except primes) can be divided. This leads to the fact that in actuality 0,1 and 2 are the only unique integers in the entire system other than primes (of which 3 would be the first), because all other values/integers are expressible ultimately as a relation between 1 and 2!! Thats something I have thought about for a long time, and deserves its own lengthy discussion. So even again, as I see it, it turns out that Time would be defined as the measurement of the perception of change/progression. And by the way its Fu-gai my friend
-------------------- Principles of acceptance * People do not progress by being questioned, they progress by questioning themselves. * When ready for the answer, people will come to the question of themselves.
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Fugai
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I do apologize drkrobotnik I too thought I was being maligned. I appreciate your kind words, and certainly hope you'll not abandon this discussion.
-------------------- Principles of acceptance * People do not progress by being questioned, they progress by questioning themselves. * When ready for the answer, people will come to the question of themselves.
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Diploid]
#7947417 - 01/28/08 08:14 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Here's a better illustration: . What's the opposite of Middle C on the piano?
?onaip eht no C elddiM

>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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Diploid
Cuban



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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#7947437 - 01/28/08 08:17 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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That made me LOL.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Diploid]
#7947578 - 01/28/08 08:37 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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On a serious note, Does the "singularity theory (no time) >< time" work out as an opposite....?
And ya~ know, the strange thing with the color wheel is it's reaction with the eyes.... If you stare at a color for a minute, then look at a white wall, you will see the "opposite" color as it is on the color wheel.... When you give sound or color a numerical value, it makes it difficult to argue an opposite, but it is we who give it the numerical value....
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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Diploid
Cuban



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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#7948296 - 01/28/08 10:53 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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If you stare at a color for a minute, then look at a white wall, you will see the "opposite" color as it is on the color wheel....
That's a function of the fatigue of color cones in the retina. In other words, it's anthropocentric.
Point a technological color measuring device (which is completely neutral and not subject to human failings or human perceptual distortion) at a color, then at a white wall and its perception will not be distorted like human perception is.
The non-anthropic, neutral device will will first report the color accurately, then it will report pure white accurately.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Fugai
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#7948312 - 01/28/08 10:57 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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Phantomcat - Singularity theory is the study of the failure of manifold structure.
What you all are referring to is gravitational singularity sometimes called space-time singularity. This theory refers to "a place where quantities become infinite" "Such quantities include the curvature of space-time or the density of matter". According to general relativity such a singularity was the initial state of the universe. Not to be confused with another type of singularity predicted by general relativity which can be found inside a black hole. Both are what is refereed to as a curvature singularity. The extent of which "a space-time with a singularity contains geodesics which cannot be completed in a smooth manner. The limit of such a geodesic is the singularity." Also, I'm not going to expound them, but there are conical and naked singularities as well. The confusion is understandable, general relativity is an intimidating theory, and most knowledge of it as passed person to person is second hand at best. What should be understood, as it is directly applicable to this discussion, and the confusion over space-time, is that it is space-time. Not space, not time. Space-time. The two are inter-determinable. Because as I would argue, and as I assumed it was readily understood, the "space" between events/things/singularities is the "time" between them. They are speaking of the exact same idea/relation. Or as my friend DimensionX was getting at when he was discussing the "gaps". Or at least I presume thats what he meant. But really though, the whole color tangent has nothing to do with the original question and distracts from it.
-------------------- Principles of acceptance * People do not progress by being questioned, they progress by questioning themselves. * When ready for the answer, people will come to the question of themselves.
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Tangerines




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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Diploid]
#7948320 - 01/28/08 10:58 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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I did not read the entire thread, but isn't time the simply the '4th dimension'? Or not so simply.
Gravity affects time right?
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Fugai
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Tangerines]
#7948400 - 01/28/08 11:13 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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Tangerines - Yes space-time is 4 dimensional according to relativity theory. The 3 positional parameters and Time constitute the 4 dimensions. And yes Gravity does affect Time.
-------------------- Principles of acceptance * People do not progress by being questioned, they progress by questioning themselves. * When ready for the answer, people will come to the question of themselves.
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Tangerines




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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Fugai]
#7948426 - 01/28/08 11:19 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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problem with relativity and quantum mechanics is the grey area in between when neither/ both apply.
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DimensionX
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Fugai]
#7948447 - 01/28/08 11:22 PM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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Sorry for the miss pronunciation fugai you seem very knowledgeable about physics. A point you brought up earlier about how the observer effects what is observed is interesting especially, in this case, how it relates to a humans perception of time. One example would be comparing human intelligence to a computers intelligence. The way a human would perceive two people talking and how a computer would perceive it are two different things. A computer may not even be able to tell that communication was occurring, it would receive completely different data and draw a completely different conclusion. So although both a human and a computer were viewing the same event when it was filtered through their intelligences two different realities would be seen. Both are valid and functional but when put next to each other they may seem contradictory or even completely foreign. I think the same thing happens when you view time and space within set, limited parameters compared to when it is view from an infinite perspective.
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Fugai
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: DimensionX]
#7948651 - 01/29/08 12:01 AM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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True Tangerines, all things are relative, even relativity. But that was not the focus of the discussion. I was merely expounding the theory to put aside any reference to it in as far as it has influenced this particular conversation. In-fact that was exactly my point. Relativity theory does not, can not and should not tell us anything about what Time is. Gloriously speculative philosophy is not reducable to any other study, it has its own significance! DimensionX - no worries my friend, only letting you know. First there are a lot of important difference in the faculties of a person-as-perceiver and a computer-as-perceiver and their intelligences. In-fact I had this conversation a few days ago with a friend of mine doing his graduate work on AI. It is directly applicable. One complex issue can be easily understood by the fact that a computer CANNOT choose a random number, at least thats a simple way of expressing the problem. A computers "intelligence" is based entirely on parameters and directives. A computer CANNOT have preferences. A computer can make choices, but they will be based on simple concern parameters like benefit/harm. Therefor A computer cannot be said to be aware. Although A computer can learn, as a complex adaptive system, it is merely the function of intelligence not intelligence itself. Those facts actually do a lot to further the understanding of what Time is though. Because A computer can measure changes in any system, but it is not Aware of the changes as they occur. Therefor Awareness is intrinsic to Time. Which brings me back to my original summation. That Time is to be defined as the measurement of the awareness of change.
-------------------- Principles of acceptance * People do not progress by being questioned, they progress by questioning themselves. * When ready for the answer, people will come to the question of themselves.
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deimya
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Fugai]
#7949229 - 01/29/08 05:34 AM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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You could at least cite your sources
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MushroomTrip
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deimya]
#7949231 - 01/29/08 05:38 AM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Fugai
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deimya]
#7951798 - 01/29/08 06:21 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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Deimya - I wasn't quoting anyone in my answer my friend and ultimately my source is Logic alone. But if what your looking for is a list of publications as the source of my information which constitutes my knowledge of a particular subject, it would take a while to compile it. The compilation spans the last 15 years of my life, give or take, and includes every major publication from the fields of philosophy, psychology, physics, theology, sociology, cybernetics and systems theory, biology etcetera etcetera. I try and keep up  Not to mention the wonderful people in various disciplines I converse with regularly.
The beginning of the 33rd quatrain of the Tao-te-ching is one of my favorite quotes, and would be of particular applicability here; "Knowledge studies others, wisdom is self known"
But if it means that much to you, or anyone else. I would be glad to provide a short list of recommended reading. But as ever, if you or anyone else find a fallacy in anything I say, I of course invite debate. Even if you just disagree
-------------------- Principles of acceptance * People do not progress by being questioned, they progress by questioning themselves. * When ready for the answer, people will come to the question of themselves.
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TheCow
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Fugai]
#7951825 - 01/29/08 06:26 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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ha every major publication. I SERIOUSLY doubt that. Fuck
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Fugai
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deimya]
#7951875 - 01/29/08 06:34 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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Deimya - Ah now I see what you meant. I happened to scan over the word source  That post was a quite few before my latest, so I assumed that your statement was in response it my latest post in this thread. Perhaps I should have linked the source that I quoted, it didn't seem that important. The post had it's desired affect. Singularity theory was mentioned and was becoming a locus of its own discussion. The theory was both mis-understood and mis-represented by those discussing it. That, and it has nothing to do with the thread. I quoted an easily accessible text for the same reason that you would request it sourced. Legitimacy. It had its desired affect. It did not continue to be discussed.
-------------------- Principles of acceptance * People do not progress by being questioned, they progress by questioning themselves. * When ready for the answer, people will come to the question of themselves.
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Fugai
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: TheCow]
#7951987 - 01/29/08 06:50 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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thecow - We all have our own interests. What do you spend your time on? Video games I would guess. But then that would be an assumption, similar to your assumption that I am not as prolific a reader as I happen to be. I won't defend myself, I don't need to impress you or anyone else, and that was not my intention by saying that. This thread is not about me. Why not try and rebut or disprove something I have said? Thus furthering the conversation. What do you care if I have or haven't? What bearing does that have on anything? I was simply saying that I do not need to justify my views by others. By the way though, every "major" publication in any one particular field of study is not as many as you would think. Most books are just about other books.
-------------------- Principles of acceptance * People do not progress by being questioned, they progress by questioning themselves. * When ready for the answer, people will come to the question of themselves.
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TheCow
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Fugai]
#7952075 - 01/29/08 07:10 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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Oh I thought you meant research papers. Because following all developments in science by reading the major research papers is not possible. No matter how you want to spin it, if you didn't mean research papers though then whatever have your fun
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