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OfflineFugai
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Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 80
Loc: Orygun
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: justamonkey]
    #7945930 - 01/28/08 03:56 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

Thats sad drkrobotnik, you have no rebuttal, so you instead try to illegitimize the proponent rather than the view. I have heard it said that sarcasm is the recourse of a weak mind, but that too is always up for interpretation. By the way though, I have been a member of this community off and on for more than 8 years.
Thank you Icelander for your defence.
And Justamonkey you are correct to a degree. But I think you fall into the trap of fatal reductionism. Your summation that time is the measurement of duration is correct, but you must ask duration of what? The duration itself is Time, so you see you have reduced Time to the measurement of itself. What distinguishes separate events? If there were no change, there would be no distinction, therefor no difference, therefor no separate events. Time (whatever we may say it is) requires both Change and the Awareness of it. If there is no awareness of change, there is no duration. And so again, I say Time is the measurement of Change. Or in other words the unit of mutual comparison between perceived events. Refer back to my previous two posts for a more in-depth summation, I don't want to have to type it over and over.
Can anyone see a fallacy? I would like the opportunity to discuss this. Collectively we should be able to come up with an absolute statement about this particular relation. I know we can, and anyway its fun to try


--------------------
Principles of acceptance
* People do not progress by being questioned, they progress by questioning themselves.

* When ready for the answer, people will come to the question of themselves.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
Teh Cat....
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Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
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Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Diploid]
    #7945933 - 01/28/08 03:56 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
what is the OPPOSITE of time?
.
There is no opposite of time. Not all things have opposites.





The opposite of time would be no-time....    Right....?
And the only time that there was no-time is speculated to be the singularity theory....

Eeehhhh.....?    :ohwell:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineFugai
Stranger
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Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 80
Loc: Orygun
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: igwna]
    #7945984 - 01/28/08 04:08 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

skcorrelyt -
our biology is indeed liked to cycles. But our "internal Clock" is entirely dependent on external factors, our environment. These cycles can be used to measure time, given that they are constant and allow for a mutual unit of comparison between events in our own biology and in the environment. What we are cannot be separated from our environment, if we were subject to different cycles our biology would be equally different. The measurement of those cycles, while equally important and interesting a conversation. Is not what Time is in and of itself.


--------------------
Principles of acceptance
* People do not progress by being questioned, they progress by questioning themselves.

* When ready for the answer, people will come to the question of themselves.


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Offlineigwna
The Cap'n
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Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 8,016
Loc: New England, USA
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Fugai]
    #7946265 - 01/28/08 05:07 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Fugai said:
skcorrelyt -
our biology is indeed liked to cycles. But our "internal Clock" is entirely dependent on external factors, our environment. These cycles can be used to measure time, given that they are constant and allow for a mutual unit of comparison between events in our own biology and in the environment. What we are cannot be separated from our environment, if we were subject to different cycles our biology would be equally different. The measurement of those cycles, while equally important and interesting a conversation. Is not what Time is in and of itself.




you're acting like this wasn't my point. what me and fireworks are discussing is merely a speculation i had that someone in an earlier post was talking about our bodies internal clock being on a 20 hour and 8 minute clock when i said that it would make sense for our internal clocks to be linked to the time of hours/minutes in a day.

i merely was trying throw out the idea that our bodies natural internal clock might have something to do with the time it takes for the earth to make a complete rotation. which fireworks brought to my attention as 23 hours and 56 minutes.

fireworks was correcting me with exact numbers when it was unnecessary, as my idea wasn't meant to be taken with exact numbers..

i assumed everyone would get what i was throwing out but i have learned i basically have to spell things out on the shroomery.

:rolleyes:


--------------------
I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.



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OfflineFugai
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Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 80
Loc: Orygun
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: igwna]
    #7946418 - 01/28/08 05:35 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

Yes you just might have to skycorrelyt, especially when what your saying has nothing to do with the original question "What is time". Considering there are over 100 posts already, why would I or anyone else keep track of your side conversation when it has no bearing on what is being discussed. Try and keep up


--------------------
Principles of acceptance
* People do not progress by being questioned, they progress by questioning themselves.

* When ready for the answer, people will come to the question of themselves.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: im_on_a_boat]
    #7946536 - 01/28/08 05:57 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

the opposite of green is red

Nope. Your anthropocentric diagram notwithstanding, red is a wavelength of ~650nm. Green is a wavelength of ~510nm.

Nether is the opposite of the other.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Diploid]
    #7946634 - 01/28/08 06:17 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

Here's a better illustration:

What's the opposite of Middle C on the piano?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisibleim_on_a_boat
Stranger

Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 3,950
Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Icelander]
    #7946683 - 01/28/08 06:26 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

drkrobotnik said:
big words.

small post count.

:macdre:




Unlike some with nothing to say yet post away.




whoa i wasn't flaming buddy just making an observation

more like 'damn this kid is pretty smart.. maybe he should post more' or 'wow he's pretty intellectual for having such a small amount of posts'

why would i come into p&s and flame someone for voicing their opinions/beliefs/concepts/hypotheses?

but you gotta be a dick and take it the wrong way.. and then flame.


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Invisibleim_on_a_boat
Stranger

Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 3,950
Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Diploid]
    #7946690 - 01/28/08 06:27 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
the opposite of green is red

Nope. Your anthropocentric diagram notwithstanding, red is a wavelength of ~650nm. Green is a wavelength of ~510nm.

Nether is the opposite of the other.




lolz get ME!

i'm getting the fuck outta this forum.


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Diploid]
    #7946699 - 01/28/08 06:29 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Here's a better illustration:

What's the opposite of Middle C on the piano?




All vibration obeys the circular law of octaves so in a way F# is the 'opposite' of C.

I know what you're saying though, how can a node have an opposite in an infinite spectrum?

Heavy. :strokebeard:


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Middleman]
    #7946721 - 01/28/08 06:32 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

Like with the color wheel, this is an anthropic illusion.

Remove the distortion of human perception and Middle C is simply 440 Hz. What's the opposite of 440 Hz?

Heavy.

Yep! :grin:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Diploid]
    #7946732 - 01/28/08 06:35 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

The law of octaves is beyond anthropic though..


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OfflineWScott
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Registered: 07/31/05
Posts: 5,713
Loc: Nacada
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Middleman]
    #7946750 - 01/28/08 06:37 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Middleman said:
Quote:

Diploid said:
Here's a better illustration:

What's the opposite of Middle C on the piano?




All vibration obeys the circular law of octaves so in a way F# is the 'opposite' of C.

I know what you're saying though, how can a node have an opposite in an infinite spectrum?

Heavy. :strokebeard:




Would it make sense to say that octaves (colour, sound) are based off of a helix sytem? If so, an opposite wouldn't exist unless there was, at the least, a double helix.

:strokebeard:


--------------------


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OfflineDimensionX
King of Birds
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Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 5,486
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Fugai]
    #7947136 - 01/28/08 07:34 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

Fungai-

If we are thinking on a similar track i think time could be compared to numbers and the idea of infinity. We think of numbers as separate events: 1,2,3. But really the gap between 1 and 2 when using decimals can be seen as infinite: 1.000000... you can place an infinite amount of decimals after the one and never quite get to two. When you view numbers from an infinite perspective there is no set gap between each one so they dont really exist in the same way we normally think of them. But since most of the time we dont think from an infinite perspective we are able to divide each event, object and number into separate items and place them in a set point in space. But if you think of space as infinite, there is no such thing as a set point.


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OfflineFugai
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Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 80
Loc: Orygun
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: DimensionX]
    #7947376 - 01/28/08 08:08 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

DimensionX - You are correct in terms of the view of numbers and what they actually represent. Because in fact if you think about it there is really only 0 and 1, any other number is just the "name" for that many 1's. Also you are correct in viewing space as infinite, and as such saying that there could be no set point. The only set point, in essence, would be the point of reference. And this should be understood fully. Because it means that the existence and thus discussion of any thing/event requires both the Object as perceived and the Objective perceiver!! But also equally important is the system by which we mutually distinguish events/things, i.e. language. The point of reference has a great deal to do with our conception of both Time and Form/Being. Numbers are a great way to illustrate the point, because it is a language after all. In that modal No-thing/event (or Awareness) would be 0, Some-thing/event would be represented by 1. The progressive integers (2-infinitum) would represent the thing/event as it changes/progresses. The progression from 1-infinitum is what we would call Time, at least in this model as we are now discussing it. A side thought of mine is that we could also define the system of inter-determinability (unit of mutual distinguish-ability) as 2. Which would also make sense in this model, because 2 is the value/integer by which all others (except primes) can be divided. This leads to the fact that in actuality 0,1 and 2 are the only unique integers in the entire system other than primes (of which 3 would be the first), because all other values/integers are expressible ultimately as a relation between 1 and 2!! Thats something I have thought about for a long time, and deserves its own lengthy discussion.
So even again, as I see it, it turns out that Time would be defined as the measurement of the perception of change/progression.
And by the way its Fu-gai my friend


--------------------
Principles of acceptance
* People do not progress by being questioned, they progress by questioning themselves.

* When ready for the answer, people will come to the question of themselves.


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OfflineFugai
Stranger
Male

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 80
Loc: Orygun
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: im_on_a_boat]
    #7947393 - 01/28/08 08:10 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

I do apologize drkrobotnik I too thought I was being maligned. I appreciate your kind words, and certainly hope you'll not abandon this discussion.


--------------------
Principles of acceptance
* People do not progress by being questioned, they progress by questioning themselves.

* When ready for the answer, people will come to the question of themselves.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
Teh Cat....
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Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Diploid]
    #7947417 - 01/28/08 08:14 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Here's a better illustration:
.
What's the opposite of Middle C on the piano?




?onaip eht no C elddiM

:grin:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7947437 - 01/28/08 08:17 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

That made me LOL. :grin:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
Teh Cat....
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Diploid]
    #7947578 - 01/28/08 08:37 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

:grin:

On a serious note,
Does the "singularity theory (no time) >< time" work out as an opposite....?

And ya~ know, the strange thing with the color wheel is it's reaction with the eyes....
If you stare at a color for a minute, then look at a white wall, you will see the "opposite" color as it is on the color wheel....
When you give sound or color a numerical value, it makes it difficult to argue an opposite, but it is we who give it the numerical value....


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7948296 - 01/28/08 10:53 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

If you stare at a color for a minute, then look at a white wall, you will see the "opposite" color as it is on the color wheel....

That's a function of the fatigue of color cones in the retina. In other words, it's anthropocentric.

Point a technological color measuring device (which is completely neutral and not subject to human failings or human perceptual distortion) at a color, then at a white wall and its perception will not be distorted like human perception is.

The non-anthropic, neutral device will will first report the color accurately, then it will report pure white accurately.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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