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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deranger]
    #7939591 - 01/27/08 10:21 AM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Well, we really don't know for certain whether astral projection actually happens.  From the tests that have been conducted so far, it seems that it does not.  :shrug:


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Veritas]
    #7939710 - 01/27/08 11:07 AM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Well it is purely a subjective phenomena, so it seems pretty pointless to even try to prove it objectivelly.  Call me a subjective scientist :wink:


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Offlinesoulcircus
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Re: What exactly is TIME? *DELETED* [Re: Veritas]
    #7939741 - 01/27/08 11:16 AM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Post deleted by soulcircus

Reason for deletion: .



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Invisiblederanger
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: soulcircus]
    #7939756 - 01/27/08 11:23 AM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

soulcircus said:but yeah i won't hijack the thread.




understanding astral projection has a lot to do with understanding the inner workings of time though. especially deep psychedelic states where 1 second can seem like eternity. experience in these areas have a lot to do with the topic of this thread, human language and thought alone will only provide one with a certain level of understanding of the nature of time.


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Invisibledeimya
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deranger]
    #7939783 - 01/27/08 11:30 AM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

SyntheticMInd said:
experience in these areas have a lot to do with the topic of this thread, human language and thought alone will only provide one with a certain level of understanding of the nature of time.




A good, mathematically sound, theory from which one derive the concept of time goes a long way in understanding its nature. We haven't reach the limit of human language yet. We may be stuck, but not yet limited. Unless someone produces a "Gödelesque" chain of idea to prove that it is unprovable or something of the kind, then I'll stay optimist about the prospect of a better understanding of the nature of time and of many other things.


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deimya]
    #7939824 - 01/27/08 11:37 AM (16 years, 5 days ago)

I just don't understand how we can understand our nature through our conditioning (language). It just makes more sense to me to connect with our roots to understand our nature. To travel inwards behind our creation and conditioning to realize what we're all about. Realization is more powerful than any human concept or mathematical equation, not matter how complex it is imo.


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Invisibledeimya
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deranger]
    #7939896 - 01/27/08 11:52 AM (16 years, 5 days ago)

I agree, although many of these realisations can and should be communicated, or at least the path leading to it, or at the very least a direction toward the path. The first step is the realisation, but once you have it what do you do ?

In my opinion, the best way to reliably share deep insights about nature still is through a logical, or at least coherent explanation, that is using language or through mathematics, which if done correctly encompass both.

But still you are right, the subjective reality of one's thoughts, ideas and experiences is best at convincing oneself.


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deimya]
    #7940111 - 01/27/08 12:40 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

deimya said:
I agree, although many of these realisations can and should be communicated, or at least the path leading to it, or at the very least a direction toward the path. The first step is the realisation, but once you have it what do you do ?




Figure out how these realizations can be integrated into the waking state and be experienced more often. Develop awareness...

Quote:

In my opinion, the best way to reliably share deep insights about nature still is through a logical, or at least coherent explanation, that is using language or through mathematics, which if done correctly encompass both.




I agree, developing a language and math could certainly help us out in many ways. But on a personal level I couldn't find it beneficial to my own understanding.


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InvisibleVisualLearner
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Registered: 01/11/08
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deranger]
    #7940494 - 01/27/08 02:17 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Alan Watts helped me understand a lot about time and space!:owl:

and also the meaning of life is life is meaningless.:levitate:


--------------------


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Droz]
    #7941199 - 01/27/08 04:29 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Time simply is movement.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deranger]
    #7941222 - 01/27/08 04:33 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

So yeah boys and girls, no more talky about anything thats not fact! Stick to the rules of the classroom! :eek:

You don't have to stick to the facts here. It would however be mature if you didn't whine when people challenged your non-facts.:hissyfit:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deranger]
    #7941245 - 01/27/08 04:37 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

SyntheticMInd said:
I just don't understand how we can understand our nature through our conditioning (language). It just makes more sense to me to connect with our roots to understand our nature. To travel inwards behind our creation and conditioning to realize what we're all about. Realization is more powerful than any human concept or mathematical equation, not matter how complex it is imo.




And how exactly do you know we aren't "realizing" everything all along here? Like our ability to think mathematically and conceptually? These are the realizations of our humanness as much as any journey to our "roots", whatever that means.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deranger]
    #7941256 - 01/27/08 04:39 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

understanding astral projection has a lot to do with understanding the inner workings of time though. especially deep psychedelic states where 1 second can seem like eternity

I think a study in how the human brain operates would be more revealing as to how we experience time.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibledeimya
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #7941262 - 01/27/08 04:41 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
Time simply is movement.




But if you explain time with movement, which at first makes sense, then with what do you explain movement without circular reasoning ? There was this J. A. Wheeler who certainly was onto something with his geometrodynamics for which he coined "Space without space, time without time, mass without mass". :strokebeard: Unfortunately his theory was falsified. Fortunately his ideas live on.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deimya]
    #7941456 - 01/27/08 05:25 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

deimya said:
Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
Time simply is movement.




But if you explain time with movement, which at first makes sense, then with what do you explain movement without circular reasoning ? There was this J. A. Wheeler who certainly was onto something with his geometrodynamics for which he coined "Space without space, time without time, mass without mass". :strokebeard: Unfortunately his theory was falsified. Fortunately his ideas live on.



Hmm without circular reasoning ?
Movement is the spatial change of potential.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Invisibledeimya
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #7941555 - 01/27/08 05:40 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Mmm, a spatial change in potential, aka a potential gradient, gives rise to a (conservative to be precise) force, and this force will bring about change in movement. Time, here again, is taken for granted to make sense of movement. :strokebeard:


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deimya]
    #7941570 - 01/27/08 05:43 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

I see it as inherently one. Without movement, no time.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledeimya
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Registered: 08/26/04
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #7941632 - 01/27/08 05:53 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

I agree. That's why I would like them to appear by themselves out of less trivial assumptions. But that's just me.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deimya]
    #7941670 - 01/27/08 06:00 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Hehe, any less trivial assumption is made up :grin:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledeimya
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #7941764 - 01/27/08 06:16 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

And so do most of the better assumptions since they defy common sense. But yeah, what I meant is that it is trivial because throughout history, many took time for granted, many deeply questioned it, some did came out with interesting insights, yet without in my opinion ever really answering OP's question in a satisfactory way. From all explanation I hear I do not feel like I know that I know about time. Again that's just me and I would never claim to know enough about history or philosophy for these general statements I am making here to really hold strong.


Edited by deimya (01/27/08 06:17 PM)


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