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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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So yeah, let's stick to what's a fact.
I ain't sticken to nothin 
I think all human experience could be considered real. IMO, consciousness can be experienced through different forms or layers of awareness.
So yeah boys and girls, no more talky about anything thats not fact! Stick to the rules of the classroom!
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deranger]
#7937422 - 01/26/08 09:09 PM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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If you want to talk about anything as being real, I suggest the M&P forum. However, if you want to continue posting here, keep in mind that this a debate forum.  So yeah, we're sticking to what has proven as being real.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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DieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deranger]
#7937532 - 01/26/08 09:27 PM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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"Real" is that which exists outside of human experience and perception. (which is the exact opposite of what you said )
Quote:
trendal said: I've got one...try defining distance for me. What is it?
Good point! An intuitive grasp of distance may seem easier then that of time, but that are each equally elusive. What is distance? What is time? I dont know, but they are related... d=rt
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deranger]
#7937555 - 01/26/08 09:30 PM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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consciousness works as a stream of pattern through intervals of time. when the intervals are short (1/15th second), sober consciousness functions sequentially and is capable of complex coordinations. when intervals are longer, time loses relevance: when intervals of consciousness exceed 2 seconds, time ceases to mean anything sequential and the self begins to take on a multiple overlapping nature.
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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: DieCommie]
#7937577 - 01/26/08 09:33 PM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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Do any of us know what is really real?
Everything is real.
Nothing is real.
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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: when intervals of consciousness exceed 2 seconds, time ceases to mean anything sequential and the self begins to take on a multiple overlapping nature.
reminds me of salvia
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: trendal]
#7938639 - 01/27/08 12:34 AM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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Distance is nature's way of keeping things from getting too crowded.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Jack Albertson
bismillah rahmani rahim



Registered: 04/14/06
Posts: 10,065
Loc: SOLARIS
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Diploid]
#7938659 - 01/27/08 12:40 AM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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can people not prove points without emoticons anymore? Not to say that i dont use them, but it is kinda ridiculous and belittling at times.
-------------------- Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time TRANSCEND
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DieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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An emoticon is worth a thousand words... or at least a couple words.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: DieCommie]
#7938787 - 01/27/08 01:14 AM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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True true, without emoticons the world would be smaller.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Without emoticons, the distance between paragraphs would be shorter.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Fugai
Stranger

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 80
Loc: Orygun
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Droz]
#7938997 - 01/27/08 02:57 AM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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I didn't take the time to read every responce in this thread so what I have to say may have already been said. Sorry if it has, but hasn't it always . Time is a signifier for the measurement of the awareness of change in any events. So that percieved events can be distinguished by a mutual unit of comparison. Without which there is no determineability. The perception of progression implies linearity, but this is an incorrect assumption. Event A seems to lead to event B which leads to C etcetera, but ultimately all events are interdetermineable, and so are not actually seperate events. The temporality of our Being is the reason for the false perception. Because our awareness is by design incapable of percieving of all events at once. This false perception is why a mutual unit of comparison is needed, because determineability is required for comparison or discussion for that matter .
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Blend
afferent orchestra



Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 2,949
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said: If you want to talk about anything as being real, I suggest the M&P forum. However, if you want to continue posting here, keep in mind that this a debate forum.  So yeah, we're sticking to what has proven as being real.
Real? What do you mean by that? Is it not a well-known FACT that all FACTS have to be based upon ASSUMPTIONS? Where is this line between what is real and what is unreal? Is time real? Is your opinion real? How can it be, it cannot be proven to exist.  It's just that I often see you telling people to stick to fact. But who is to say whether or not time is real? Or astral travel is real? My anger for your posts is real? Can any of this be 'proven' by science to be a definite thing? No. Science cannot give us a definite definition for 'definite.' I understand your point and everything, but if no one ever thought out of the box, they'd just be stuck in it. If scientists didn't make assumptions, we'd still believe the earth is flat. If they even got that far. You can't trap yourself within your own limits and expect to get anywhere. The quest for knowledge isn't equal to being stagnant - it's the exact opposite.
Not a personal attack. Just an argument. If you can't handle an argument, I suggest you check out the M&P forum.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Blend]
#7939289 - 01/27/08 08:05 AM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Real? What do you mean by that? Is it not a well-known FACT that all FACTS have to be based upon ASSUMPTIONS? Where is this line between what is real and what is unreal? Is time real? Is your opinion real? How can it be, it cannot be proven to exist. 
The line between real and unreal is evidence. Reliable evidence. That's how you define and separate the is from might be and might not be and other degrees. I am sure you can comprehend this as well as the nuances.  My opinion is considered real when it is proven to exist. Let's say that right now, considering the situation, my opinion is located somewhere in the "might be" section. If I were to talk face to face with someone, the situation might be more evident and the existence of my opinion can easily pass to the stage of "is" Until now, astral projection has not been proven. Now, you could say that it could exist in the "might be" section, but then, considering that there have been done some tests and measurements to determine it's authenticity and that it failed miserably, I will take the liberty to say that we could find it in the "might not be" section.
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It's just that I often see you telling people to stick to fact. But who is to say whether or not time is real? Or astral travel is real? My anger for your posts is real?
Your anger for my posts might be real, for me it is not. For you, it apparently is and I wish you good luck with all that since you are the master of your emotions. Perhaps you'd allow me to suggest to invest in some anger management techniques? 
Quote:
Can any of this be 'proven' by science to be a definite thing?
Everything is relative, there's no definite, but there exists "more likely" and "less likely". For example, we could start assuming that, since we resemble so much with monkeys, we come from monkeys as well. And there is a considerable amount of reliable evidence to sustain that. Now we can't argue with the certain degree of certainty that dust bunnies had sex with wonder woman in order to create a new and improved generation of super heroes, can we? 
Quote:
No. Science cannot give us a definite definition for 'definite.' I understand your point and everything, but if no one ever thought out of the box, they'd just be stuck in it. If scientists didn't make assumptions, we'd still believe the earth is flat. If they even got that far. You can't trap yourself within your own limits and expect to get anywhere. The quest for knowledge isn't equal to being stagnant - it's the exact opposite.
Read all the above.
Quote:
Not a personal attack. Just an argument. If you can't handle an argument, I suggest you check out the M&P forum. 
See? These kinds of assumptions are exactly what we should avoid when we try a philosophical approach. You have insufficient data regarding my emotional status so you can't be definite in concluding that I can't handle this argument. As you can see, I'm handling it pretty well.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said: As you can see, I'm handling it pretty well.
You've handled it in a very delusional manner.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Care to provide with some evidence?
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Jack Albertson
bismillah rahmani rahim



Registered: 04/14/06
Posts: 10,065
Loc: SOLARIS
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-------------------- Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time TRANSCEND
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: deranger]
#7939503 - 01/27/08 09:52 AM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
SyntheticMInd said:
Quote:
Veritas said: It's a concept which humans use to quantify the gradual changes that occur to what is happening. What is currently happening is reality--everything else is memory and fantasy.
How about astral projection, is that fantasy as well?
Reality can be experienced not only through the waking state ime.
What does this have to do with what I posted? If astral projection actually happens, then it is reality & not fantasy. If it happened in the past, and is not happening in this moment, then it is memory. If it does not actually happen, then it is fantasy.
As to whether we experience reality when we are asleep or unconscious, I would say that we experience what is happening inside our own minds, which is real to us, but it is highly unlikely that we experience anything which could be verified by anyone else as real.
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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: What exactly is TIME? [Re: Veritas]
#7939567 - 01/27/08 10:11 AM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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Sorry, misinterpretation on my part.
Quote:
As to whether we experience reality when we are asleep or unconscious
The thing with astral projection is that it doesn't really happen when asleep or unconscious. It feels more conscious than the ordinary waking state. It makes everything that was once considered "real" in the waking state seem like complete illusion.
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