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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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NYC Fire Fighters and their families sent behind a fence at Fl debate
    #7931543 - 01/25/08 07:04 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Looks like fire fighters and their families from NYC, came down to Florida to protest against Rudy outside of the debate hall. They got sent to a "free speech" zone behind a fence, out of view from traffic going in and out. People who were there said they were told they would be arrested if they left that area holding their signs up.

What do all make of that in America? These were NYC Fire Fighters they did that to.







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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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OfflineCoaster
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Re: NYC Fire Fighters and their families sent behind a fence at Fl debate [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7931656 - 01/25/08 07:24 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

poor firefighters
dont get any respect


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: NYC Fire Fighters and their families sent behind a fence at Fl debate [Re: Coaster]
    #7932077 - 01/25/08 08:49 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

or decent equipment, its sad to see them on the road panhandling with boots to buy decent equipment. Seems the lions share of the cut is given to the police dept.

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: NYC Fire Fighters and their families sent behind a fence at Fl debate [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7932147 - 01/25/08 09:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

This is fucked. America is desperately in need of some civil disobedience. :sad:


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineCoaster
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Re: NYC Fire Fighters and their families sent behind a fence at Fl debate [Re: Diploid]
    #7933235 - 01/26/08 01:17 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

america needs to be invaded and bombed over a period of decades so it knows how it feels


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: NYC Fire Fighters and their families sent behind a fence at Fl debate [Re: Coaster]
    #7933288 - 01/26/08 01:25 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)



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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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OfflineCoaster
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Re: NYC Fire Fighters and their families sent behind a fence at Fl debate [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7933366 - 01/26/08 01:43 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

i h8 that basterd
hey lets substadize this
o and btw i own half that copanies stock


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Invisiblehillbilly32
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Re: NYC Fire Fighters and their families sent behind a fence at Fl debate [Re: Coaster]
    #7933757 - 01/26/08 05:18 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

If a revolution happens I reckon it will happen digitally. Ie, hackers and people who know how to manipulate the system, an inside job, not the old school brute force method people still use to protest.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: NYC Fire Fighters and their families sent behind a fence at Fl debate [Re: hillbilly32]
    #7934241 - 01/26/08 10:19 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

There is a small, bitter and very vocal contingent of fire fighters and their families who blame Rudy for the fire department having crappy radios. I find their position ludicrous.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: NYC Fire Fighters and their families sent behind a fence at Fl debate [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7934613 - 01/26/08 11:48 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Of course you do, its anathema to your world-view.


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: NYC Fire Fighters and their families sent behind a fence at Fl debate [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7934660 - 01/26/08 12:04 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

My world view does not encompass the idea that Mayor of the city is responsible for every little detail of city operations, especially a city that is the 17th ranked economy in the world (I heard that somewhere, precisely true or not it remains illustrative of the point that NYC is fucking huge.)

Meanwhile, they still have crappy radios.


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OfflineMrBump
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Re: NYC Fire Fighters and their families sent behind a fence at Fl debate [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7934669 - 01/26/08 12:07 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Rudy 9ui11iani:

“Freedom is not a concept in which people can do anything they want, be anything they can be. Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do.”


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If it weren't for the bloody corpses, I wouldn't have any corpses at all.

There are two ways to get to the top of an oak tree: start climbing or sit on an acorn.

Are you a carrot, an egg, or a coffee bean?

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: NYC Fire Fighters and their families sent behind a fence at Fl debate [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7934686 - 01/26/08 12:10 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

So does Rudy bear no responsibility for any of the SNAFU's that got a shit-ton of firefighters killed that day?

I'm sure it couldn't have been his decision to put the city's "Emergency Command Center" in the basement of the WTC, despite vociferous objections from the NYPD/FD, could it?

I eagerly await his plan to protect the White House from terrorists. What's he going to do, relocate it into the Green Zone in Baghdad?


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: NYC Fire Fighters and their families sent behind a fence at Fl debate [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7934743 - 01/26/08 12:21 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
So does Rudy bear no responsibility for any of the SNAFU's that got a shit-ton of firefighters killed that day?




Like what? The radios didn't work in the buildings. Until the first one fell, nobody believed they would collapse. Even if they had been able to notify the others in the second building would they have gotten out in time?
Quote:



I'm sure it couldn't have been his decision to put the city's "Emergency Command Center" in the basement of the WTC, despite vociferous objections from the NYPD/FD, could it?




You seem to think that what anybody in the NYPD or FDNY says is what everybody says. That isn't true. Given the fact that almost nobody thought what happened was possible it seems like a good idea to locate the command center centrally (Not all NYC is Manhattan). As it turned out, it was well located for this crisis. Except the buildings fell down. Nattering nitwits of hindsight brilliance are bores. And just what failures do you suppose occurred as a result of that location? None I can think of.
Quote:



I eagerly await his plan to protect the White House from terrorists. What's he going to do, relocate it into the Green Zone in Baghdad?




That was just stupid. Do you think the White House is an Emergency Command Center?


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: NYC Fire Fighters and their families sent behind a fence at Fl debate [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7934764 - 01/26/08 12:26 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I'm sorry, replace WH w/ NORAD if it makes you feel better. You get the point.

Quote:

And just what failures do you suppose occurred as a result of that location? None I can think of.




This seems like a pretty incredible statement to make. If, in fact, the Emergency Command Center was destroyed w/out that causing any harm to the emergency response, it must have been a pretty fucking useless ECC in the first place, no?

What the fuck is the point of spending a billion dollars on a command center that is absolutely fucking worthless?


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: NYC Fire Fighters and their families sent behind a fence at Fl debate [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7934851 - 01/26/08 12:41 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

So, just what do you think could have been done that wasn't because of that? After the collapse what could have been done? Everybody who was killed was already dead. If they hadn't actually collapsed, an event that was not anticipated, it would have been perfectly located to handle the situation.
I have no idea why people think that it was such a bad idea to locate the Center centrally. Maybe they would have attacked the Empire State Building. Do you have any idea how many targets there are in NYC?


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: NYC Fire Fighters and their families sent behind a fence at Fl debate [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7934902 - 01/26/08 12:50 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Listen, I'm not a New Yorker. I don't know exactly what this thing was supposed to do. But if you're telling me that it was destroyed on 9/11, and there were absolutely no consequences to anyone, then the fucking place was a terrifically expensive taxpayer-funded boondoggle.

And I don't buy for one second your assertion that the whole thing was over after the towers fell. Did all the rescue workers go home after 12:00 noon that day? Because I could of sworn there were emergency rescue crews there for weeks afterwards searching for people.

Did this command center not serve as some kind of facility for managing these groups of people? Or was the Emergency Command Center really completely irrelevant to commanding people in an emergency, as you claim?


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: NYC Fire Fighters and their families sent behind a fence at Fl debate [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7935116 - 01/26/08 01:29 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

What I claim is that all the damage was done before the Command Center was disabled and that it's continued existence after that was irrelevant. I repeat the collapse of the towers was unanticipated and that it was wholly appropriate to put it there. There are other locations that would have been appropriate as well. Hindsight is.......bullshit.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: NYC Fire Fighters and their families sent behind a fence at Fl debate [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7935807 - 01/26/08 03:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

This post is asking what you think about them being told to get behind that fence or get arrested.

Did they have a right to wave their signs against Rudy outside of the debate hall or not?

Paul and Huck had supporters waving signs and chanting outside of it and they were not told to go to the free speech zone. Why just the Firefighters and their families protesting against Rudy?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: NYC Fire Fighters and their families sent behind a fence at Fl debate [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7935874 - 01/26/08 03:51 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Supporters yes, hecklers no. And this guy is NOT all firefighters. He is a lunatic. Like the 9/11 truther wives.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: NYC Fire Fighters and their families sent behind a fence at Fl debate [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7936310 - 01/26/08 05:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
a "free speech" zone behind a fence




That is probably the most disturbing phrase I've ever heard,, given what country we're in.

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