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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Souls?
    #7929505 - 01/25/08 12:18 PM (16 years, 7 days ago)

Do you beleive we all have a soul?

With the obvious fact we all were and all are one, this would mean we do not have individual eternal souls right?

We all just keep going through different forms of life.

I spent so much of my life beleiveing in having a soul but as im getting older and what i beleive is wiser, it seems to be up there with heaven and hell in the land of fantasy.

Sorry to any christians/catholics that read this, your values are awesome but your beleifs are just plain absurd in my eyes. Infact any religeon that beleives that whatever you do in this one little short lifetime defines whether you live in heaven or hell for all eternity just seem ridliculous!

I used to be catholic...


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Edited by Chronic7 (01/25/08 12:19 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Souls? [Re: Chronic7]
    #7929516 - 01/25/08 12:20 PM (16 years, 7 days ago)

I also doubt the existence of a soul. On the other hand I do believe we all have soles.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Souls? [Re: Icelander]
    #7929520 - 01/25/08 12:20 PM (16 years, 7 days ago)

Of our feet?


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: Souls? [Re: Chronic7]
    #7929522 - 01/25/08 12:21 PM (16 years, 7 days ago)

The Freemasons and some Sufi mystics say that a soul (a crystallized identity that survives death) must be built...


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Souls? [Re: Chronic7]
    #7929523 - 01/25/08 12:21 PM (16 years, 7 days ago)

What else?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Souls? [Re: Chronic7]
    #7929533 - 01/25/08 12:24 PM (16 years, 7 days ago)

I used to work with a muslim girl and the she couldnt understand how ridiculous heaven and hell theory is, and she couldnt even understand the meaning of everyone being ONE.

She was even convinced of the whole 60 virgins waiting for you etc....

All religeons except Tao and buddhism and maybe some other eastern all seem to force theyre beleifs on you and try to make you live in fear of god.

I guess it reflects on the societies those people live in aswell, western government and some middle east always try to keep theyre citizens living in fear.


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OfflineWScott
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Re: Souls? [Re: Icelander]
    #7929543 - 01/25/08 12:26 PM (16 years, 7 days ago)

The unchanging part of you. I don't think people change, only perceptions, outlooks and ideas. That point of being inside always remains constant.


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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Souls? [Re: Middleman]
    #7929544 - 01/25/08 12:26 PM (16 years, 7 days ago)


I dont understand how though, surely it goes onto being soemthing else, and seeing as that thing or soul is still part of the oneness, there are no separate eternal souls, just ONE?

Thats why our lives right now are so precious, because we will never be this again.


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Edited by Chronic7 (01/25/08 12:27 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Souls? [Re: WScott]
    #7929554 - 01/25/08 12:27 PM (16 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

WScottsdale said:
The unchanging part of you. I don't think people change, only perceptions, outlooks and ideas. That point of being inside always remains constant.




Once a:monkeydance:, always a :monkeydance:.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Souls? [Re: Icelander]
    #7929574 - 01/25/08 12:31 PM (16 years, 7 days ago)

That unchanging part of you/us is still the oneness no?

Nothing is separate except in physical state it seems, all energy is connected, so when we die we are reborn again in new forms of energy.

With the life/death process on such alrge scales as stars and blackholes, everythiing must be reborn in some way or form to keep the cycle of energy flowing.

That seems most rational to my mind.

otherwise hell is one crowded place


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Offlineprankster
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Re: Souls? [Re: Chronic7]
    #7929611 - 01/25/08 12:37 PM (16 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

chronic777 said:
otherwise hell is one crowded place




Oh yes. It is overpopulated. Look around.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Souls? [Re: Chronic7]
    #7929632 - 01/25/08 12:40 PM (16 years, 7 days ago)

Nothing is separate except in physical state it seems, all energy is connected, so when we die we are reborn again in new forms of energy.


This is also what I believe. But what is just as hard to grasp as anything else, (for me at least), is this process seems to be without end, or beginning.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Souls? [Re: prankster]
    #7929653 - 01/25/08 12:46 PM (16 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

prankster said:
Quote:

chronic777 said:
otherwise hell is one crowded place




Oh yes. It is overpopulated. Look around.





I get your joke but could never see our planet as hell, i see it as heaven. Everything is perfect the way it is i would not change one thing if i had the chance, i can say that in all honesty.

In dont mean to come off all high and mighty its just how i honestly feel.

I used to have a very bad view of the world, but now instead of being attached to all the suffering (which is brought by attachment) i just observe the beauty of everything. Or at least i try my hardest to!

When you men acting in jealousy and violence its pretty hard to see the beauty in that but, it happens for a reason


Quote:

Icelander said:
Nothing is separate except in physical state it seems, all energy is connected, so when we die we are reborn again in new forms of energy.


This is also what I believe. But what is just as hard to grasp as anything else, (for me at least), is this process seems to be without end, or beginning.





That is quite a conundrum but its all just one life death process, including the universe, there is no beggining or end, just life and death



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Edited by Chronic7 (01/25/08 12:48 PM)


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OfflineWScott
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Re: Souls? [Re: Icelander]
    #7929779 - 01/25/08 01:13 PM (16 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Nothing is separate except in physical state it seems, all energy is connected, so when we die we are reborn again in new forms of energy.


This is also what I believe. But what is just as hard to grasp as anything else, (for me at least), is this process seems to be without end, or beginning.




If you can wiggle your toes, the universe still grows.


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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Souls? [Re: WScott]
    #7929810 - 01/25/08 01:23 PM (16 years, 7 days ago)

Oh canada...


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Souls? [Re: Chronic7]
    #7929813 - 01/25/08 01:24 PM (16 years, 7 days ago)

"If you can wiggle your toes, the universe still grows."

:thumbup::blazed:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Souls? [Re: Chronic7]
    #7929818 - 01/25/08 01:25 PM (16 years, 7 days ago)

That is quite a conundrum but its all just one life death process, including the universe, there is no beggining or end, just life and death


As far as we know. :wink: I never eliminate any possibility and I mean any possibility. There might be a God looking down on me right now.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Souls? [Re: Icelander]
    #7929822 - 01/25/08 01:26 PM (16 years, 7 days ago)

"There might be a God looking down on me right now."

THAT would be crazy.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Souls? [Re: backfromthedead]
    #7929833 - 01/25/08 01:28 PM (16 years, 7 days ago)

Indeed.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineWScott
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Re: Souls? [Re: Chronic7]
    #7929838 - 01/25/08 01:29 PM (16 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

chronic777 said:
Oh canada...




:monkeydance:


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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Souls? [Re: backfromthedead]
    #7929847 - 01/25/08 01:30 PM (16 years, 7 days ago)

Oh for sure i sometimes think, is there anything behind it all, there could be multiverses going on forever all controlled by a monkey in a glass ball.

But from what ive experienced, we are all one, whatever there is it is still part of us as one, science backs this up as we are all basically the same atoms with just diffrent number of electorns or somehting liek that. These atoms could be reactin in multiple ways but there still all ONE.


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OfflineQuerjek
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Re: Souls? [Re: Chronic7]
    #7929913 - 01/25/08 01:44 PM (16 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

chronic777 said:
...science backs this up as we are all basically the same atoms with just diffrent number of electorns or somehting liek that. These atoms could be reactin in multiple ways but there still all ONE.



You should read up on quantum sometime--with atoms, we've discovered that every atom is not empirically the same (weight-wise and perhaps mass-wise, anyway). They are practically the same, but one sodium molecule is not exactly the same as the next. The differences are pretty small though--but then you get into gauge bosons and their differences (and mass differences become more and more minute the further you "zoom in"...)




Discussions about the existence of the soul are always interesting to me though, because death is a two-fold procedure--your body is still there, but think, what must it be like to actually be in the moment of dying? It might be equivalently as traumatic as birth--but none of us remember what that was like.

I believe that when your die, your perception of time shifts exponentially, such that, to your perception ("you"), time flows by extremely slowly, but because you have no external marker to gauge it by, you can't tell. Depending on your brain's tendencies to be left- or right- sided, you either will experience death in a first-person perspective or third-person; it's like dreaming in that you don't know what your role is where you are, but you feel no desire to question it



--------------------
tripping eyes and flooded lungs
northern downpour sends its love


Edited by Querjek (01/25/08 01:48 PM)


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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Souls? [Re: Querjek]
    #7929924 - 01/25/08 01:46 PM (16 years, 7 days ago)

I try and understand quantum mechanics and branes and string theorys but i cant make sense ofit at allo, apart fomr that when you opbserve an atom its there, when you dont its everywhere, if i understand correctly?

The intention is there so it will come to me i just dont like pushing my brian too fast too soon... :smile:


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Souls? [Re: Chronic7]
    #7929954 - 01/25/08 01:53 PM (16 years, 7 days ago)

I think we are souls in the sense that we are like small microcosmic events which somehow can influence the whole universe. You never know how. Right now. We are stuck here on earth. But in ten thousand years we may have pervaded the whole multiverse. Maybe we already pervade other realms that are mostly unseen. I think we pull alot together as one unified awareness. We are part of a grand experiment of sentience. That sentience is aware, and that bespeaksk a soul, that is, someone to be aware of something. I doubt we can really be here to speak of anything without being a soul.

I know even in meditation I feel this sense of person which is me. What about you? Do you not feel like someone sometime? Not in relationship to others but just -solely-? When alone, one is soul. Why I listen to soul music, for real. Not just sayin.


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...or something







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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Souls? [Re: eve69]
    #7929983 - 01/25/08 02:00 PM (16 years, 7 days ago)

I feel my own truth and wisdom when meditating sometimes, but mostly when meditating i try and get out of my own ego games and be everything.

I feel like theres some truth to a soul, but not every single human and animal having theyre own individual eternal soul, it just cant be possible when we're all one being. All i can see is energy, not souls, maybe people like to call this energy soul.

I just think the human need to label a "soul" is the same need that needs to beleive in heaven and afterlife, its based in fear of the unknown afterlife, when if we all relaised there is afterlife as energy manifesting in different forms, we wouldnt need to label our energy as souls, we can take solace that our acts as a human can aid to the growth in strength of that energy to live on into higher forms of being. We evolev, theres no taking human form or thoughts with us when we die, we jsut move onto the next stage

Liek the buddha might be living on as some higher intelligent alien being who doesnt even fathom the concept of wars etc....but he is no longer the buddha at all, he has grown....


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Edited by Chronic7 (01/25/08 02:02 PM)


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Invisiblehillbilly32
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Re: Souls? [Re: WScott]
    #7933771 - 01/26/08 05:44 AM (16 years, 6 days ago)

Scientifically, the idea of a Soul passing from one life form to another, or 'our energy' moving into another life form, could just be the matter from our decomposing bodies being recycled through the enviromental cycle until a particle from that body becomes part of another life form which grows to experience "consciousness".
ie, you die, your body rots in the ground, a tree grows from around you, a person eats fruit from that tree which contains a few million particles of matter from your corpse, essentially passing on your energy into another life form.
meh


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Souls? [Re: Chronic7]
    #7933868 - 01/26/08 07:45 AM (16 years, 6 days ago)

Funnily I don't think the soul is the unchangeable part of our personal existence here on earth. Quite the opposite.
Assumed, some kind of 'essence', spirit or soul of 'us' will exist after and before our death, I see our physical existence as 'arena' of some sorts, where we have the only possibility to change our soul here on earth, while cut off from most of our spiritual connections and boundaries.
It's here what counts, even for eternity (spiritual realm), because while there, 'soulful' change will be much harder (for theoretically obvious reasons, such as non-knowingness and knowingness [aka hell and heaven]).
:heart:


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
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Re: Souls? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #7933872 - 01/26/08 07:51 AM (16 years, 6 days ago)

That makes sense.

I consider the soul to be like a seed, and just like in nature, very few seeds grow...


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