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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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The Trap
#7929049 - 01/25/08 09:34 AM (16 years, 7 days ago) |
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Questions without answers. Why are we here? What created this? What is the ultimate meaning of existence? Is there a God?
I'm not saying there is no benefit in these questions. I'm saying they are often a trap that keep us from dealing with the tough questions for living that we can answer but that take work, commitment, and often feeling uncomfortable. Changing our programs that really don't work for us.
I think that most of the threads here are more distraction then investigation. Threads about mental health often go mostly ignored and a thread about whether Jesus did or did not do this or that goes on for weeks.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
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distractions indeed. whoever said P&S should stand for Purposively Arguing Slowly was right on the ball 
this whole place is a limbo that we come to because we are not ready to fully take everything on just yet, and i mean this in more than one way, and not in a Christian sense although you could think about it that way if you like
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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this whole place is a limbo that we come to because we are not ready to fully take everything on just yet,
Oh I agree.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
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what's funny? you think i'm only talking about myself? i think that pretty much applies to everyone if you really understand what i am saying
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Don't be paranoid. I meant all of us.
I laugh because human nature is funny and that line "Oh I agree" is from the movie Bladerunner when he was about to be beaten to death by an android. The Android said " It's terrible having an itch you cannot scratch". He looked up at him all bloody and said ....
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Quote:
Icelander said:I think that most of the threads here are more distraction then investigation.
I think all engagement in conceptualization is distraction from what is most real to me. Although, what is real to me may be illusion to you and vise-versa... to each their own I guess.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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I think all engagement in conceptualization is distraction from what is most real to me.
This doesn't make sense to me. If something is "most real" to you then you have thought about it and conceptualized it. How else could you even express it here? You believe something is real. That's perception and thought goes along with it.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--



Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 3,910
Loc: isle de la muerte
Last seen: 24 days, 10 hours
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I have to sort of agree. Some people are given to feeling things nonconcptually. We can also conceptualize but within are more like feelings and intuitions that don't lead straight to conclusions or even formative conceptualizations. Kind of like when getting a blow job, most thoughts leave the mind.
-------------------- ...or something
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
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I agree with you completely. One of the reasons that my posting here declined a bit was because I started to see no value in discussions that were not practically oriented. I don't care about the meaning of life, Jesus, Buddha, morals, ethics, coulds, and woulds, etc... or any of that shit. I care about the fact that I have life and what will I do with it...not what I COULD do with it...but what I WILL do with it. I offer that challenge to all here. Move and act. Discussion is only useful to devise a plan to act...for paractical outcomes...not to consider what WOULD happen if I DID act becaue I am too stoned, programmed, lazy, drunk, fried, etc to act.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Don't mince words Hue. If you got something to say how about just coming out with it.
I do agree.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
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Quote:
Icelander said: Threads about mental health often go mostly ignored and a thread about whether Jesus did or did not do this or that goes on for weeks.
Which of these two topics were more prevalent when we were brought up....? Which one fires people up enough to respond....? Drama is like an attention vacuum, and has it's own distinct sucking sound.....! 
Some of the more interesting threads to me are the ones that I don't have a lot of knowledge in - which usually leaves me with nothing original to add.... It is also cool to see original ideas (original to me), but as soon as one sticks it out there, someone else is ready with an ax to chop it off and bury it....
"MY imagination is better than YOUR imagination"....
Eeeehhh.... 
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
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Minced words are unhealthy. Like whole foods, whole words are much healthier. I think that this is your best thread in months. I wonder why it has not accrued many pages by now?
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Quote:
I wonder why it has not accrued many pages by now?
Um, because there is no 'hook'. Where is the multicolored cosmic mystery, where are the extra-dimensional beings who beam light from their foreheads? Where are the unicorns prancing gayly in the flower-filled meadows of green and gold surrounded by comely wood-nymphs?
Look, we need some flavor with our medicine. The plain truth of life is often unpalatable unless dipped in wasabi or a nice hoison sauce.
Presentation, presentation, presentation!
Comprende, compadre?
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
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I don't think that the truth of life is unattractive. It is only unattractive when one is frightened to act. Only then does it need the sweet sugar coating. When one does act in the face of fear or contrary programming it feels really sweet. To actualize ones dreams into reality...to be all that you ever thought you could be and then push it farther hints at a whole world of adventure waiting just on the other side of that membranous barrier called fear.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Quote:
to be all that you ever thought you could be
Huehue Republican-paid subliminal programming: JOIN THE ARMY!
Quote:
...hints at a whole world of adventure waiting just on the other side of that membranous barrier called fear
Perhaps, but sometimes on that other side of the barrier lies extreme pain or even death.
I watched film of one 25 yo guy doing some impossible extreme free climbing. When he got to the top, he made exuberant comments similar to yours. He died on his next outting. Was it worth it? That is up to the individual.
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hillbilly32
Stranger


Registered: 07/02/07
Posts: 68
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God is just another theory on how we all came about. Just like the Big bang, it is NOT FACT. It is ignorant to say that 'God exists' or that 'the big bang created the universe', because no one knows for sure. All we can do is accept the most likely and reasonable explanation.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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there is an art and a science to asking good questions. some are koans.
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_ 🧠 _
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
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Quote:
Huehue Republican-paid subliminal programming: JOIN THE ARMY!
Not my intention, but I WAS a soldier once, and I thought it was a very valuable lesson. It taught me deep disrespect for authority, and to never just do what I was told.
Quote:
I watched film of one 25 yo guy doing some impossible extreme free climbing. When he got to the top, he made exuberant comments similar to yours. He died on his next outting. Was it worth it? That is up to the individual.
Well I wasn't referring to climbing, which I do participate in. (It can also be done with caution and safety...like with ropes and belay. Soloing IS NOT common and I do not do it)I was refering to any situation that inspires fear. Meeting social fears is often more challenging than meeting physical fears, and every bit the adventure. The path of adventure is in challenging our habitual patterns whatever they may be and dropping our roles and labels. The Army challenges one (falsely) to be all one can be, but the challenge I issue is to be anything that you can be.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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deimya
tofu and monocle



Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: ausländer.ch
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Quote:
hillbilly32 said: God is just another theory on how we all came about. Just like the Big bang, it is NOT FACT. It is ignorant to say that 'God exists' or that 'the big bang created the universe', because no one knows for sure. All we can do is accept the most likely and reasonable explanation.
It's a trap !
The big bang is a scientific theory which still stands OK before experimental verifications, which explains lots of stuff and which predicted at least a few novel things. "Science vs. religion" proponents will use the false assumption that it claims to explain how the universe was created, yet the only thing it does is describe and explain the evolution of the universe at a very early time, not its "creation". The first cause argument is flawed in that it assumes causality in a realm where time is ill-defined.
As for your vanilla flavored god, it's an unscientific hypothesis which is just as much a trap as the question it tries to answer.
Edited by deimya (01/26/08 09:30 AM)
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: The Trap [Re: deimya]
#7934113 - 01/26/08 09:22 AM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Quote:
Icelander said:This doesn't make sense to me. If something is "most real" to you then you have thought about it and conceptualized it.
Yes I can only conceptualize it here on these forums, or whenever I am reflecting back on the experience. But when engaged in deep meditation or trance, those moments have a feeling of realness, or completeness to them that is different then when engaged in thought. Thought feels illusory to me, like another form of imagination. But this is just how I feel, it is very subjective. It doesn't have to make sense to you
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JoseLibrado
return


Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 569
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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This is an amazing thing that has been happening to me more now than ever.
But all this talk leads me to ask;
What are you going to activley do?
Besides opening up to people and speaking about social fears that everyone faces regularely, or preaching on the street corner about the word of God or speaking for the word of truth.
I think there is alot more going on in social situations and it has to do with emotional energy vibrations and unique psychic powers that we have little knowledge of how it affects us.
This usually is what makes chat about what you are going to do, fall through after the first time you do it.
I think that fear is another huge if not the biggest factor that limits us...and witnessing your fear as unreal is what helps you change it. I find turning all of the lights off in the house and sitting there in the dark is a good excercise because alteast for me it allows you to see the nature of the mind and fear, but also allows you to see that your fear is unjustifiable and irrelevant as long as you do not immerse your emotions in it.
HERES the next Question.
SHARE ANY EXPERIENCES YOU HAVE HAD IN PUSHING YOUR SOCIAL FEARS AND OVER LOOKING THE PRECONDITIONINGS?
ALSO SHARE ANY IDEAS ON HOW TO BETTER TRASNCEND THEM, DURING THE SOCIAL SITUATIONS?
One time i talked to a guy in the changeroom naked for like 5 minutes. It was quite fun. I told a group of guys that i used to have sex with my cousins when i was 8-12 years of age. I speak about social fears and 'weaknesess' on the bus where there are large groups of people and i begin to get anxious and fearful.
I find looking at these things like a challenge and openly going against those programmed feelings, helps me feel better and like im in a game.
I look at it as a challenge because i know what the truth is that i believe, but i feel challanged by the programms to not live the truth.
What TRAPS me in these instances is believing the fear to be rational and being angry towards myself, or feeling guilty towards myself because i was not able to see through the program and acted on fear.
I think the only reason i do this is because although i do deem not being able to live truth and eliminate ate the truth and induce love, as negative. And when i feel these emotions i express them to what i think the orgin of them is, me, instead of the thoughts themselves, which cause me to feel and act in certain ways....
I know that i am not the cause of the feelings, because irrational thoughts are what cause fear, anxiety, nervousness, shyness and limit the spirit to create conciously throught he mind and body. And although i recognize that there must be a thinker that is thinking these things and causing them to occur, i notice that the thinker itself is not the orgin, because a thinker without anything to think about would not feel much fear, anxiety or nervousness. I thus see the orgin as a thought and try to bypass directing that energy at the THinker(myself the thinker), and directing it towards what will make it go from negative to positive, the rearranging of thought frameworks.
I am writing a book about this and i will post it up here. when im done, have fun, and challenge it all, oh and dont forget, LOVE!
-------------------- The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution. And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change. Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems. Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger


Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said: I agree with you completely. One of the reasons that my posting here declined a bit was because I started to see no value in discussions that were not practically oriented. I don't care about the meaning of life, Jesus, Buddha, morals, ethics, coulds, and woulds, etc... or any of that shit. I care about the fact that I have life and what will I do with it...not what I COULD do with it...but what I WILL do with it. I offer that challenge to all here. Move and act. Discussion is only useful to devise a plan to act...for paractical outcomes...not to consider what WOULD happen if I DID act becaue I am too stoned, programmed, lazy, drunk, fried, etc to act.

Philosophy is a vice.
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justamonkey
Stranger



Registered: 10/26/05
Posts: 292
Loc: Upstairs
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You know why I come to the Shroomery? Cause a large man sitting in front of his monitor was reading it, and I wanted to know what was so damn interesting.
I still haven't found anything. Its been a few years now too.
-------------------- [quote]We don't need anyone to teach us sorcery, because there is really nothing to learn. What we need is a teacher to convince us that there is incalculable power at our fingertips. What a strange paradox! Every warrior on the path of knowledge thinks, at one time or another, that he's learning sorcery, but all he's doing is allowing himself to be convinced of the power hidden in his being, and that he can reach it. [/quote]-Carlos Casteneda
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igwna
The Cap'n


Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 8,016
Loc: New England, USA
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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yeah icelander, i always fucking see questions with no answers and not only do i agree with you about the distractions
but i see the same god damn fucking questions. or maybe someone changed a little bit.
i mean its fun to discuss certain things and i love reading some of them and just see others ideas...
but god damnit already.
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
MushmanTheManic said:
Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said: I agree with you completely. One of the reasons that my posting here declined a bit was because I started to see no value in discussions that were not practically oriented. I don't care about the meaning of life, Jesus, Buddha, morals, ethics, coulds, and woulds, etc... or any of that shit. I care about the fact that I have life and what will I do with it...not what I COULD do with it...but what I WILL do with it. I offer that challenge to all here. Move and act. Discussion is only useful to devise a plan to act...for paractical outcomes...not to consider what WOULD happen if I DID act becaue I am too stoned, programmed, lazy, drunk, fried, etc to act.

Philosophy is a vice.
There is truth to this but having vices is human nature.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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justamonkey
Stranger



Registered: 10/26/05
Posts: 292
Loc: Upstairs
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
MushmanTheManic said:
Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said: I agree with you completely. One of the reasons that my posting here declined a bit was because I started to see no value in discussions that were not practically oriented. I don't care about the meaning of life, Jesus, Buddha, morals, ethics, coulds, and woulds, etc... or any of that shit. I care about the fact that I have life and what will I do with it...not what I COULD do with it...but what I WILL do with it. I offer that challenge to all here. Move and act. Discussion is only useful to devise a plan to act...for paractical outcomes...not to consider what WOULD happen if I DID act becaue I am too stoned, programmed, lazy, drunk, fried, etc to act.

Philosophy is a vice.
There is truth to this but having vices is human nature.
The Balance - The Moody Blues
After he had journeyed, And his feet were sore, And he was tired, He came upon an orange grove And he rested And he lay in the cool, And while he rested, he took to himself an orange and tasted it, And it was good. And he felt the earth to his spine, And he asked, and he saw the tree above him, and the stars, And the veins in the leaf, And the light, and the balance. And he saw magnificent perfection, Whereon he thought of himself in balance, And he knew he was.
Just open your eyes, And realize, the way it's always been. Just open your mind And you will find The way it's always been. Just open your heart And that's a start.
And he thought of those he angered, For he was not a violent man, And he thought of those he hurt For he was not a cruel man And he thought of those he frightened For he was not an evil man, And he understood. He understood himself.
Upon this he saw that when he was of anger or knew hurt or felt fear, It was because he was not understanding, And he learned, compassion.
And with his eye of compassion. He saw his enemies like unto himself, And he learned love. Then, he was answered.
Just open your eyes, And realize, the way it's always been. Just open your mind And you will find The way it's always been. Just open your heart And that's a start.
-------------------- [quote]We don't need anyone to teach us sorcery, because there is really nothing to learn. What we need is a teacher to convince us that there is incalculable power at our fingertips. What a strange paradox! Every warrior on the path of knowledge thinks, at one time or another, that he's learning sorcery, but all he's doing is allowing himself to be convinced of the power hidden in his being, and that he can reach it. [/quote]-Carlos Casteneda
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