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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Loc: Center of the Universe
the place of debate in rational discussion
    #7926701 - 01/24/08 09:04 PM (16 years, 8 days ago)

There seems to be a semantic disconnect on this forum. Some members regard this as a debate forum, a place to sharpen their argumentative skill. Some others do not insist on making every post an argument, and are perturbed when their intuitive statements (intuition being a vital aspect of spirituality) are subjected to scathing logical review, even when the reviewer agrees in spirit and there is little apparent philosophical or spiritual need for debate.

Philosophy is nothing without debate, and contrary to what I'm sure many will say in response, I am not more comfortable on M&P. However, philosophy is not a synonym for debate, and certainly neither is spirituality. Debate has a very necessary place in these endeavors but does not constitute the whole by a long shot.

I made a poll on Shroomerites Anonymous suggesting that a debate forum be created, so that those who are focused more specifically on debate have a chance to express themselves less contentiously. I wasn't going to mention it here but I don't know that everybody who frequents P&S also frequents SA, and I'm interested in hearing what you guys think.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: the place of debate in rational discussion [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7926714 - 01/24/08 09:07 PM (16 years, 8 days ago)

There is no disconnect, just an apparent misunderstanding:

Quote:

Forum Rules
If you choose to post in this forum be prepared to have your ideas and opinions challenged, refuted, disputed, rebutted, analyzed, shredded, pooh-poohed, and yes - even supported. If having your beliefs, opinions, and positions scrutinized critically makes you uncomfortable, this is not the forum for you.





Anyone who dislikes the (aforementioned) manner in which others respond to their posts has the option of ignoring the replies, requesting that a moderator move their thread to M&P or simply leaving.  Why do you think that this forum should alter its' stated purpose and function in order to suit those who disagree with said function?  :confused:


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Female


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: the place of debate in rational discussion [Re: Veritas]
    #7926729 - 01/24/08 09:09 PM (16 years, 8 days ago)

This is not the first time I am accused of this misunderstanding, but I assure you I do not misunderstand the rules.

I'm not accusing anybody of breaking the rules or misusing this forum. I'm just saying that many regs have a much bigger inclination toward debate than the namesake of this forum. Can you deny it? An actual debate forum might suit them better.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: the place of debate in rational discussion [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7926741 - 01/24/08 09:12 PM (16 years, 8 days ago)

This IS the debate forum. If you wish to discuss intuitive or imaginative topics without fear of skepticism, then post it in M&P. This is the exact reason why the forums split in the first place.

Non-philosophy-related debates go on in Politics, Physical & Mental Well-being & the Pub. There is simply no reason to create a debate-dedicated forum.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Female


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: the place of debate in rational discussion [Re: Veritas]
    #7926743 - 01/24/08 09:12 PM (16 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
This IS the debate forum.




Where do the rules say this?

I'm not saying my wacky ideas should go unchallenged. I've been told I was wrong here several times, accepted it, admitted it, and revised my positions. I'm grateful for that, and I wouldn't have it any other way. But much of the debate that takes place here is truly unnecessary to philosophical and spiritual discussion, and a distraction from the real ideas being discussed.

A DEBATE FORUM would naturally have very different subject matter than the PHILOSOPHY AND SPIRITUALITY forum.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



Edited by Tchan909 (01/24/08 09:14 PM)


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
Re: the place of debate in rational discussion [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7926751 - 01/24/08 09:14 PM (16 years, 8 days ago)

A debate forum is not a bad idea. I mostly come here to share and read other's existential thoughts and breakthroughs or personal insights, and I like it when people have new ideas that can make me see things from a unique perspective (redgreenvines). Sometimes I will learn a bit about human psychology from MushroomTrip because that seems to be a field she has a lot of knowledge in, and Gomp is always good for the thoughts on dreaming.

I don't know if we need a new forum, this place has a good balance. It's entertaining to see all the pushing and pulling :thumbup:

edit: The debating itself is pretty bland to me because it usually isn't very creative, just kind of stagnant. However, I liked the red panda debate I read because the arguments were very thorough for the most part.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Posts: 11,089
Re: the place of debate in rational discussion [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7926752 - 01/24/08 09:14 PM (16 years, 8 days ago)

Actually, this is defined in the forum description of M&P:

Quote:

If you wish to debate and argue a position, the Philosophy & Spirituality forum is your alternative.




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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: the place of debate in rational discussion [Re: Veritas]
    #7926762 - 01/24/08 09:15 PM (16 years, 8 days ago)

So it's a forum where debate is allowed. Yes. That's what I like about this forum.

But it is NOT "The Debate Forum" and I don't think it should be.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: the place of debate in rational discussion [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7926784 - 01/24/08 09:18 PM (16 years, 8 days ago)

But it is NOT "The Debate Forum"

It IS a debate forum.

This issue has been hashed out here already. It keeps coming up once a year as noobs sign up who don't remember how it used to be.

I rarely lock threads, but this one is begging to be locked.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: the place of debate in rational discussion [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7926785 - 01/24/08 09:18 PM (16 years, 8 days ago)

As I said, debates which do not relate to philosophy or spirituality go on in other forums.  But P&S and M&P were created from ONE forum in order to provide a protected place for spiritual sharing without debate.  THIS forum is debate-oriented, and posters are forewarned that their ideas may be subjected to critical review.

Why are you so determined to post in this forum without debate?  :confused:  What's wrong with posting sensitive, intuitive, imaginative ideas in the "safe" forum, and bringing the ideas you are ready to test and try into this forum?


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
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Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: the place of debate in rational discussion [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7926789 - 01/24/08 09:19 PM (16 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

But it is NOT "The Debate Forum" and I don't think it should be.




Philosophy includes debate.
While it in not entitled the debate forum, the following:
Quote:

If you choose to post in this forum be prepared to have your ideas and opinions challenged, refuted, disputed, rebutted, analyzed, shredded, pooh-poohed, and yes - even supported. If having your beliefs, opinions, and positions scrutinized critically makes you uncomfortable, this is not the forum for you.



IS the description of debate.

Quote:

de·bate /dɪˈbeɪt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[di-beyt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -bat·ed, -bat·ing.
–noun
1. a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing viewpoints: a debate in the Senate on farm price supports.
2. a formal contest in which the affirmative and negative sides of a proposition are advocated by opposing speakers.
3. deliberation; consideration.
4. Archaic. strife; contention.
–verb (used without object)
5. to engage in argument or discussion, as in a legislative or public assembly: When we left, the men were still debating.
6. to participate in a formal debate.
7. to deliberate; consider: I debated with myself whether to tell them the truth or not.
8. Obsolete. to fight; quarrel.
–verb (used with object)
9. to argue or discuss (a question, issue, or the like), as in a legislative or public assembly: They debated the matter of free will.
10. to dispute or disagree about: The homeowners debated the value of a road on the island.
11. to engage in formal argumentation or disputation with (another person, group, etc.): Jones will debate Smith. Harvard will debate Princeton.
12. to deliberate upon; consider: He debated his decision in the matter.
13. Archaic. to contend for or over.




Also what you WANT is none of this forum's concern.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: the place of debate in rational discussion [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7926793 - 01/24/08 09:19 PM (16 years, 8 days ago)

This thread has been closed.

Reason:
This has been discussed to death when the forum was split the first time. We DO NOT need yet another split.

If you don't like it here, don't post here. It's simple.

Official site policy on the creation of new forums:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/3613824#Post3613824


Edited by Diploid (01/24/08 09:47 PM)


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