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Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
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umbrellamaker
Intergalactic Sociopath


Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 573
Loc: Houston TX
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
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Re: Snake Venom Into Hybrids [Re: RogerRabbit]
#9140986 - 10/27/08 09:06 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Roger,
That is a very interesting tip.
Would you consider testing your theory on a video that you could sell here?
I would donate 100 buck to see you test the lighter thing on yourself after a bite.
I bet others here would too.
Think about it Roger, make a few thousand by people who wanna see someone get bit, and a few thousand more for selling the video.
If your certain that it works that is. Why not eh?
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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I'd like to see some more research on this. Most of the research seems to be of fairly questionable quality with mixed results. Snake bites are highly variable in toxicity with many factors affecting the potency and amount of venom delivered. This really makes anecdotal evidence pretty worthless, even more so than usual. I also kind of question how well any effect applies to all the various methods used to deliver the shock. I've looked at some info detailing methods varying from stun guns to spark plug wires to BBQ lighters. Obviously research on one method can't just be carried over to apply to every type of electric shock.
The research also is very mixed, with some experiments clearly showing no benefit. Attempts at replicating successful experiments also seem to have failed in more than one instance. It seems to me that the electric shock snakebite treatment is a crapshoot at best.
-FF
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: Snake Venom Into Hybrids [Re: fastfred]
#9144694 - 10/27/08 09:07 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well, if I'm ever 20 miles up a trail in the middle of BFE and get bit by a rattlesnake, I'll be shocking the hell out of the area in question, since there's no other viable alternative, and I have the device in my first aid kit.
I don't however plan on deliberately getting bit to test the device any more than I intend to jump out of an airplane without a parachute to test my ability to fly. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Knots_Landing
You're a towel!



Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 13
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
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Re: Snake Venom Into Hybrids [Re: RogerRabbit]
#9146024 - 10/28/08 12:34 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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You think you can fly?
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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No, but I have no intention of trying out for the Darwin award either. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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umbrellamaker
Intergalactic Sociopath


Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 573
Loc: Houston TX
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
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Re: Snake Venom Into Hybrids [Re: RogerRabbit]
#9154569 - 10/29/08 03:03 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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umbrellamaker
Intergalactic Sociopath


Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 573
Loc: Houston TX
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
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Hey Roger, do you think a stun gun might work too? Or is the voltage not right?
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rugergirl79
lεṡвïαṉ εχτɾøḋïṉ^



Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 2,113
Loc: cardboard box
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umbrellamaker
Intergalactic Sociopath


Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 573
Loc: Houston TX
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
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Re: Snake Venom Into Hybrids [Re: rugergirl79]
#9158967 - 10/30/08 11:54 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thanks rugergirl79,
That satisfied my curiosity. I am getting one for my camping gear.
I am an all or nothing kind of person I guess.
If I was to zap myself from a bite, and I had the choice between a barbecue lighter therapy or a full blown taser....
Well you guys can guess what I would do. But I might not live to tell you lies about it later:)
Thanks again rugergirl79, nice to have your lovely scent in the room:)
Peace...
Edited by umbrellamaker (10/30/08 11:56 AM)
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rugergirl79
lεṡвïαṉ εχτɾøḋïṉ^



Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 2,113
Loc: cardboard box
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Quote:
umbrellamaker said: Thanks rugergirl79,
I am an all or nothing kind of person I guess.
Thanks again rugergirl79, nice to have your lovely scent in the room:)
Peace...
teee heee
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cricket
Lord Cricket


Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 960
Loc: in my house, in front of ...
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Re: Snake Venom Into Hybrids [Re: RogerRabbit]
#9165667 - 10/31/08 06:17 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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electric shock will only help if it knocks you unconscious. Even then the only way it helps is by slowing your heart rate while you wait for the ambulance.
There is a large amount of data available detailing the potential beneficial effects of HVDC therapy in the form of personal testimonials, anecdotal reports, and uncontrolled case reports involving both humans and animals. In contrast, the results of controlled trials utilizing snake or spider venom injected into mice, rats, rabbits, and dogs have found HVDC therapy does not positively effect the natural course of envenomation and, in some cases, may delay wound healing. Administration of HVDC shocks is reportedly well tolerated by patients and appears to carry little intrinsic risk in otherwise normal, healthy patients. One major concern about the use of HVDC shock therapy is that patients may believe that they have been treated adequately and thus may not promptly seek appropriate medical care after a clinically significant bite or sting. HVDC shock therapy is not supported by the scientific literature and should not be considered a viable treatment option for venomous bites or stings.
http://www.herper.com/venom/electro.html
http://www.kamakazi.com/docsplace/aoi/snakbite.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3257850
http://firstaid.webmd.com/snakebite_treatment_firstaid.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3438923
this site will tell you what the worlds leading venom expert knows http://www.avru.org/
-------------------- I tried to leave my signature but it didn't work... By the way... Does anybody know how to get sharpie markers off of a computer screen?
Edited by cricket (10/31/08 06:39 PM)
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cricket
Lord Cricket


Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 960
Loc: in my house, in front of ...
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Re: Snake Venom Into Hybrids [Re: cricket]
#9165760 - 10/31/08 06:41 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Getting off topic again
How would you use it in Myc. culture.
-------------------- I tried to leave my signature but it didn't work... By the way... Does anybody know how to get sharpie markers off of a computer screen?
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: Snake Venom Into Hybrids [Re: cricket]
#9165893 - 10/31/08 07:15 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
electric shock will only help if it knocks you unconscious. Even then the only way it helps is by slowing your heart rate while you wait for the ambulance.
Nonsense. The evidence doesn't support your opinion. It's been used hundreds, if not thousands of times by EMTs on humans who have been bitten by rattlesnakes. No local shock is going to knock anyone unconscious. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Snake Venom Into Hybrids [Re: RogerRabbit]
#9178421 - 11/03/08 04:18 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Seems like the links he provided have quite a few literature citations.
I'm kind of curious how this technique made it into common practice without much supporting evidence or FDA approval...
-FF
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: Snake Venom Into Hybrids [Re: fastfred]
#9179695 - 11/03/08 08:29 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think the FDA considers it their job to protect pharma profits over public health, at least for the last 8 years. My EMT instructor went over the FDA disapproval in class, and he was quite bitter about it, since he's used it on actual patients and seen the results. It was silly to base their study on rats, when the obvious reason a snake bites a rat is for food, and when one bites a human, it's to scare them away. There's evidence that the snake adjusts the amount of venom secreted under different conditions, thus the rat gets a fatal dose, and a human only gets a warning shot.
At any rate, I have a couple of the units, and they're light, so easy to carry in my first aid kit. If I ever have need, I'll use it while on the way to the hospital. I'm no expert on the technique, but was just reporting what I found out. I'm a volunteer fireman, so get EMT training. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Mr.Winkie
Procrastinators unite



Registered: 10/18/08
Posts: 197
Loc: mad, oregon
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
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Re: Snake Venom Into Hybrids [Re: RogerRabbit]
#9218705 - 11/10/08 03:28 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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wow. so this is just one way of crossing to variety??? roger rabbit could you do this with azurescens and cubensis.
-------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------- PROCRASTINATORS UNITE!!!!.......................................................tomorrow
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: Snake Venom Into Hybrids [Re: Mr.Winkie]
#9221253 - 11/10/08 10:23 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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I wish. So far, all attempts to cross those two have failed. I'm sure it's only a matter of time before someone pulls it off though. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Mr.Winkie
Procrastinators unite



Registered: 10/18/08
Posts: 197
Loc: mad, oregon
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
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Re: Snake Venom Into Hybrids [Re: RogerRabbit]
#9221510 - 11/10/08 11:13 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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ooh. really. well looks like i have two goals:
1} crossing azurescens with a cubensis.
2} growing shrooms the size of [fat] baby arms
Look forward to bad ass pics and crazy experiments in months to come. I'll keep everyone posted
Also can i please have your lc and substrate recipe. Pretty please. I'll guard it with my life. I lost the lc recipe and kind find it
PROCRASTINATORS UNITE..............very very soon
-------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------- PROCRASTINATORS UNITE!!!!.......................................................tomorrow
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hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma.
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Snake Venom Into Hybrids [Re: John Nada]
#12408420 - 04/17/10 11:16 AM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
StevenMichael said: For real???? Goddamn!
That's not nice language! You don't say that!
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Ritual
Spore Collecter

Registered: 05/05/09
Posts: 249
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: Snake Venom Into Hybrids [Re: hamloaf]
#12408635 - 04/17/10 12:03 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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I posted this information last week but noone has replied in my post or been interested at all.
Instead of snake venom you can use the vibrio bacteria. It is a chitin eater (fungi cell walls). The bacteria will have the same effect as the snake venom.
A culture can be had for cheaper and only requires specialized agar which you could make yourself. TCBS agar is what it is called.
If I had a permit to do research on the Psilocybe genera I would be more then happy to see what species can be crossed with this method. I cant say for sure wether you can cross a Azure with a Cubensis for example but it is theoretically possible. If anyone tries it please do let me know.
I have had success crossing two different Mycena species.
If you need more information feel free to PM me.
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