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Offlinelightningbolt1
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Coir as a bulk substrate Q's
    #7923562 - 01/24/08 09:45 AM (16 years, 8 days ago)

Looking to spawn rye>coir

Wondering about sterilization of the bulk substrate.

Lots of tek's designed for poo, straw; all call for pasturizaion of my substrate.

I know there is no need to sterilize the casing layer, but what about the substrate?

Looked thru a couple of rye>coir threads, and didnt find too much on sterilizing the bulk subs

I'm gonna keep looking ,but i need to spawn real soon, so I need some help, plz.


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In the land of the dark, the ship of the sun is driven by the Grateful Dead


Edited by lightningbolt1 (01/24/08 09:51 AM)


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Offlinelightningbolt1
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Re: Coir as a bulk substrate [Re: lightningbolt1]
    #7923574 - 01/24/08 09:49 AM (16 years, 8 days ago)

it would seem to me that if the substrate has the potential for contamination, wouldnt it be feasible for th econtam to take hold and wage war with the mycelium structure fr control over the substrate?

Just like any contam'd jar, right?


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In the land of the dark, the ship of the sun is driven by the Grateful Dead


Edited by lightningbolt1 (01/24/08 09:50 AM)


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Offlinelightningbolt1
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Re: Coir as a bulk substrate [Re: lightningbolt1]
    #7923631 - 01/24/08 10:08 AM (16 years, 8 days ago)

found some stuff on it.

Sitll don;t have a why, but i guess i don;t need to worry about pastuizing coir.

ok.


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In the land of the dark, the ship of the sun is driven by the Grateful Dead


Edited by lightningbolt1 (01/24/08 10:10 AM)


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Invisibleshroober
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Re: Coir as a bulk substrate [Re: lightningbolt1]
    #7923665 - 01/24/08 10:23 AM (16 years, 8 days ago)

From what I've experienced it is best practice to pasteurize any bulk substrate being used including coir. It's a pretty simple process, I wouldnt recommend skipping it.


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InvisibleSillicybin
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Re: Coir as a bulk substrate [Re: lightningbolt1]
    #7923676 - 01/24/08 10:26 AM (16 years, 8 days ago)

Anytime you're spawning to a medium that won't be kept in a sterile environment, you want to pasteurize to retain the helpful microorganisms to fight off undesired contaminants.

That said, I have still had great success sterilizing coir in mason jars and spawning straight to it. As long as I have gotten the water content correct (just moist, a handful shouldn't drip more than one or two drips when I squeeze hard) and used a good spawn ratio (1:4 or better) I have not have contam issues.

If you are going to use coir as a bulk, I highly recommend adding 5% (by volume) composted chicken manure. You usually can find this at any "feed and seed" type store.


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Offlinelightningbolt1
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Re: Coir as a bulk substrate [Re: Sillicybin]
    #7923699 - 01/24/08 10:33 AM (16 years, 8 days ago)

this is why I like input.


So, to sterilie or not to sterilize, that is the question.

What ae my risks? is it necessary? what ,makes it not necessary?

why is coir a substance that does not require pasturization?


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In the land of the dark, the ship of the sun is driven by the Grateful Dead


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Offlinelightningbolt1
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Re: Coir as a bulk substrate [Re: lightningbolt1]
    #7923706 - 01/24/08 10:34 AM (16 years, 8 days ago)

the chicken crap would just be an infusion of N, right?

so spent cofee grounds should do the trick, just the same, correct?


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In the land of the dark, the ship of the sun is driven by the Grateful Dead


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Invisibleblood4blood
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Re: Coir as a bulk substrate [Re: Sillicybin]
    #7923713 - 01/24/08 10:37 AM (16 years, 8 days ago)

here's my growlog:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/7859521/an/0/page/0

i just spawned rye to coir/hpoo 50/50

if you dont have any hpoo thats fine you can go with 100% coir. just follow the growlog and use all coir instead of the hpoo. but still add that 5% gypsum and anywhere from 25-50% verm (for water retention) and a good rule of thumb is a coffee filters worth of coffe per half brick of coir.

i just spawned a couple days ago so where in the same place. and ill be updated it again when its colonized and i apply a casing layer.


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Offlinelightningbolt1
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Re: Coir as a bulk substrate [Re: blood4blood]
    #7923739 - 01/24/08 10:45 AM (16 years, 8 days ago)

*edit*

thanks for the info



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In the land of the dark, the ship of the sun is driven by the Grateful Dead


Edited by lightningbolt1 (01/24/08 10:47 AM)


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Offlinelightningbolt1
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Re: Coir as a bulk substrate [Re: lightningbolt1]
    #7923749 - 01/24/08 10:49 AM (16 years, 8 days ago)

I'm working with 1 qt cambo's in rye, 1 qt of brazils in rye, 2 bricks coir, gypsum, cushed oyster shell, coffee grounds, vermiculite.

I am on the lookout for a recipe that uses what I have, so all this is helping greatly

seach function is great, but it turns up so MANY threads, and I can use, seemingly, about 2% of em :lol:


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In the land of the dark, the ship of the sun is driven by the Grateful Dead


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OfflineMYSTIQUE
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Re: Coir as a bulk substrate [Re: lightningbolt1]
    #7923767 - 01/24/08 10:56 AM (16 years, 8 days ago)

With the list of stuff you have I would do all the coir and coffe you want 80/20 50/50 20/8 with thoes two its up to you you can grow on 100% of each. gypsum I always screw up on so someone correct me if Im wronge but its 5% gypsum and I would save the verm for the caseing layer


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Invisibleblood4blood
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Re: Coir as a bulk substrate [Re: MYSTIQUE]
    #7923941 - 01/24/08 12:02 PM (16 years, 8 days ago)

verm is great in any of your subs as i stated earlier it helps hold the water in.

and gypsum can be used anywhere from 5-10% and is great for helping loosen your substrate.


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Offlinegaladar


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Re: Coir as a bulk substrate [Re: blood4blood]
    #7924141 - 01/24/08 12:55 PM (16 years, 8 days ago)

whatever and however you do it

PASTEURIZE!
DONT STERILIZE.

get a meat/candy thermometer and KEEP IT AT 165DEGREES.
(if pasteurizing in jars, shut off heat once it hits 140 because itll keep rising internally.)


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Coir as a bulk substrate [Re: galadar]
    #7924174 - 01/24/08 01:05 PM (16 years, 8 days ago)

Pasteurize, never sterilize bulk substrates unless you like the color green.
RR


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OfflineYossarian22
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Re: Coir as a bulk substrate [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7924364 - 01/24/08 02:06 PM (16 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Pasteurize, never sterilize bulk substrates unless you like the color green.
RR




But with coir, doesn't it already come pre-sterilized? I was under the impression the bricks were exposed to high heat and steam before being packaged and thus there's no reason to pasteurize them.


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Offlinegaladar


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Re: Coir as a bulk substrate [Re: Yossarian22]
    #7924416 - 01/24/08 02:22 PM (16 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Yossarian22 said:
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Pasteurize, never sterilize bulk substrates unless you like the color green.
RR




But with coir, doesn't it already come pre-sterilized? I was under the impression the bricks were exposed to high heat and steam before being packaged and thus there's no reason to pasteurize them.



alot of coir has unwanted salts and trichoderma.
its best to. and i mix mine with coffee and gypsum which are both dirty.


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OfflineYossarian22
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Re: Coir as a bulk substrate [Re: galadar]
    #7924669 - 01/24/08 03:16 PM (16 years, 8 days ago)

OK. But still then, what's the advantage of pasteurizing instead of sterilizing? There's no helpful bacteria still around, right? I've only made a few coco coir trays, but I would just use boiling water to hydrate it, cover the bowl, then microwave for 10 minutes or so until I see plenty of steam rising from the coir. Is there any serious problem with this?


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Invisiblesimplemachine
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Re: Coir as a bulk substrate [Re: Yossarian22]
    #7924820 - 01/24/08 03:48 PM (16 years, 8 days ago)

It always worked for me...now I just dump a bucket of boiling water on the brick and let it sit till cool and use it. Both methods work great for me.


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InvisibleSillicybin
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Re: Coir as a bulk substrate [Re: lightningbolt1]
    #7929183 - 01/25/08 10:24 AM (16 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

lightningbolt1 said:
the chicken crap would just be an infusion of N, right?

so spent cofee grounds should do the trick, just the same, correct?




No. I've done both, and the tubs with supplemented chicken manure ALWAYS outyielded coir/coffee mixes.

It's high in nitrogen, but that's not all it brings to the table.


Edited by Sillicybin (01/25/08 11:03 AM)


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Offlinexeallos
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Re: Coir as a bulk substrate [Re: Sillicybin]
    #7929280 - 01/25/08 11:00 AM (16 years, 7 days ago)

I got into bulk coir pasteurization following RR's technique of boiling jars capped with foil, checked with a meat thermometer, featured on his DVD. After a while though you will get sick of all the work involved in setting up the jars, waiting for them to cool, then cleaning them all back out. That's when you build this :rockon:


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OfflineSDP
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Re: Coir as a bulk substrate [Re: blood4blood]
    #7929375 - 01/25/08 11:33 AM (16 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

blood4blood said:
5% gypsum and anywhere from 25-50% verm (for water retention)




The gypsum is a GREAT way to boost yield, but with just coir I would add closer to 10%. I add closer to 10% no matter what.

The chicken poo at 5% is a great recommendation.

Coffee up to 20% is great too. Up to 50% if your not going to use chicken manure.

As for vermiculite I wouldn't use ANYWHERE near 25-50% vermiculite in a coir-only bulk substrate. Not trying to make a casing here...

Coir has EXCELLENT aeration and water retention ability. At most I would add 10% vermiculite. Being only coir makes it semi nutrient-deficient so adding a significant amount of nutrientless vermiculite seems counterproductive.

In making a mix with poo, I use coir instead of verm to bulk-up and add water retention, even in a multipoo\coir mix i still rarely put more then 10-15% vermiculite

Pasteurization is the way to go... for all bulk substrates...


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Edited by SDP (01/25/08 01:34 PM)


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Offlinegaladar


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Re: Coir as a bulk substrate [Re: Sillicybin]
    #7930547 - 01/25/08 03:55 PM (16 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Sillicybin said:
Quote:

lightningbolt1 said:
the chicken crap would just be an infusion of N, right?

so spent cofee grounds should do the trick, just the same, correct?




No. I've done both, and the tubs with supplemented chicken manure ALWAYS outyielded coir/coffee mixes.

It's high in nitrogen, but that's not all it brings to the table.



i mean hey, if you dont want big bovine crap, use a hens poop!
chicken craps wonderful. how much superior was it than without?


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