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manyc
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Registered: 01/03/04
Posts: 571
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Not letting WBS soak overnight
#7919917 - 01/23/08 01:38 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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Has anyone ever not let their WBS soak for several hours before pressure cooking? If so, was there any increase in contamination?
I have searched the shroomery and the web but have found no kind of information on the real risk of not soaking it, to "let the endospores germinate." Last time, I only let it soak for a few hours and my jars turned out white and beautiful. I don't have the time today to let it soak, so I'm simmering it and rinsing several times before I PC my 12 jars.
Any kind of input would be appreciated - unless you've actually DONE this before, though, I don't want to hear anything like "you're fucking up all your jars, you're a fuckin retard."
Don't be an asshole.
--------------------
Hemp could Save the World. "There is no flag that is large enough, to hide the shame of a man in cuffs." -Serj Tankian Know Thyself. "If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." -Terence Mckenna
Edited by manyc (01/23/08 01:39 PM)
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DoctorRobert
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Registered: 01/10/08
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Re: Not letting WBS soak overnight [Re: manyc]
#7919922 - 01/23/08 01:39 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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Yes, if you don't soak, you will get increased contams.
Search for endospores if you want to know why.
-------------------- If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach a man to cultivate mushrooms, you feed his mind for a lifetime. www.groworganic.com www.hydroponics.net/i/200002 www.bulbs.com/Compact_Fluorescent_Screw--in/Daylight_White-/results.aspx
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manyc
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Registered: 01/03/04
Posts: 571
Loc: Axis Mundi
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Re: Not letting WBS soak overnight [Re: DoctorRobert]
#7919938 - 01/23/08 01:46 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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I see... those are some tough fuckin microscopic organisms.
Well, I could let it soak for 3-5 hours - would that be sufficient for them to germinate?
--------------------
Hemp could Save the World. "There is no flag that is large enough, to hide the shame of a man in cuffs." -Serj Tankian Know Thyself. "If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." -Terence Mckenna
Edited by manyc (01/23/08 01:47 PM)
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creamrocks
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Registered: 03/25/05
Posts: 694
Loc: the old midwest
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Re: Not letting WBS soak overnight [Re: manyc]
#7919959 - 01/23/08 01:53 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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personally, i boil some water. Then remove the pot from the oven, pour the WBS into the pot, put the lid on and soak for an hour in the hot water, then i drain for about half an hour. or until very few drops of water remain. never really had increased contamination like above poster said. never soaked for more than a hour. maybe im lucky i dunno. you might want to do some further research. aka use the search feature.
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legallyhomeless
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Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 4,051
Loc: EZRA for the Refuge
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Re: Not letting WBS soak overnight [Re: manyc]
#7919965 - 01/23/08 01:56 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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You must be kidding right? Are you a moron or something?
haha jk
Seriously, you need to let your wbs soak 24 hours to sporulate the endospores in the wbs. Make sure you drain for 1 hr and PC at 15psi for 90 mins.
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Edited by legallyhomeless (01/23/08 01:57 PM)
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tahoe
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Registered: 11/26/03
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Re: Not letting WBS soak overnight [Re: DoctorRobert]
#7920066 - 01/23/08 02:23 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorRobert said: Yes, if you don't soak, you will get increased contams.
Search for endospores if you want to know why.
only 25 post and I wonder how many of them are full of misinformation like this one.
I have not noticed increased/decreased contams with boiling wbs first or not. I used to fill the jars with wbs and water 2:1 and pc for 1 hour at 15 psi with no contam problems!!
if i did the same with rye I would notice about a 5% contam rate. We all know that rye is dirtier than wbs or maybe its just a bigger kernel.
Now what I do, and this is only for better consistency in grain moisture content. I boil/simmer the grain either wbs or rye for about 30 mins or however long it takes to get the optimum water content. Once it is good enough for me with little if any cracked kernels i jar it up and pc for no more then 1 hour at 15psi. I have 0% contams with rye now because of this simmer. I do not soak for a day. I do not wait a day after simmering to let endospores hatch. I do nothing fancy. Just simmer, strain in a calender, and PC for an hour.
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DontPlay
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Registered: 12/13/07
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Re: Not letting WBS soak overnight [Re: tahoe]
#7920357 - 01/23/08 03:55 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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Love the title Newb Slayer, Tahoe Yeah I started doing WBS a few weeks ago and only simmered for about an hour before draining it. They all came out just fine. I did remove the sun flower seeds tho, don't know if that made a big difference or not.
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Squirrel_Nugs
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Re: Not letting WBS soak overnight [Re: DontPlay]
#7920446 - 01/23/08 04:23 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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well i didn't let my set out over night. and i soaked it for about 5 hours. then simmered it, and pressure cooked at 15 psi for an hour and a half. inoculated the next day and covered with CF but i still haven't seen any colonization and its been a week so i dont know whats going on  
oh btw i dont see any contams as of yet.
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DoctorRobert
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Registered: 01/10/08
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Re: Not letting WBS soak overnight [Re: DontPlay]
#7920488 - 01/23/08 04:31 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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All the time, I see numerous questions about how long should I soak - WBS - or this or that grain, or various combinations of grains. The function of soaking any grain, is to allow it to absorb it?s maximum natural capacity of moisture, without germinating the seed, or allowing it to rot. 12 hours works sometimes, 24 hours works, so does 36 hours. -Agar 03-28-05
There's no magic time for soaking. I don't think 24-36 is too long, but also don't think 12 is too short. What matters most is the amount of water absorbed by the grain. aside from corn, most grains we use don't have super high bacterial endospore counts anyway, and don't require super long soaks to germinate them. -Monstermitch 10-13-07
Cover with a lid and allow this to set for 12-14 hours at room temperature. I usually just let mine soak overnight and I find it works well. The soaking time can be adjusted to your taste though. Some may find that it takes longer, while others find it takes less. Soaking serves two purpose: There are certain bacterial endospores that are very heat resistant. Meaning, that simply pressure cooking the WBS will not kill them all. So, we allow the grain to soak which in turn germinates those unwanted endospores. Making them vulnerable to the high temps of the PC and much easier to destroy. Secondly the grain is soaked with water to some extent. At this point you may notice a slight 'fermentation' smell coming from your WBS. This is normal and will not effect the outcome. -Doc34
Check for doc34's wbs tek I think it's there. he did a tek just like my rye tek for wbs. -Magash 09-26-05
Soaking WBS and Rye in a 5 gallon bucket works wonders. -Roadkill 08-30-06
Draining properly is very important. I've done hundreds of bags of WBS and all I've done was soak rinse and drain then PC thats when the cooking gets done and they turn out perfect every time, also add a couple of drops of Jet Dry to your soaking water it not only helps break the surface tension on the millet making the soak more effective but it really helps the WBS from clumping. -Hyphae 04-09-06
The soak allows the grains to hydrate slowly so there is less risk of burst kernels which spill starches out into your jars, hindering colonization, and promoting bacterial infections.I prefer to soak for anywhere from a few hours to 24, then a five minute boil or so just to finish hydrating the grains to double their original dry size. The shorter the soak time, the longer the boil(not simmer) needs to be. If you only soak for an hour or two, you'll probably need to boil for nearly an hour. In addition, the boil heats up the grains so that when you pour them into your colander, what excess moisture doesn't drain off, can evaporate due to the heat. It helps to shake the grains around in the colander every few minutes until they drain/dry. You want the grains to look and feel dry on the outside when you load your jars, while still having them double the original dry size. This is correct moisture content for all grains from WBS to popcorn. -RogerRabbit 09-19-06
Here are quotes from, RogerRabbit, Magash, Hyphae, Roadkill, Monstermitch, Agar, and Doc34, all suggesting that we soak our grains/wbs.
So I don't think that suggesting a soak is misinformation unless you think Magash, Hyphae, Roadkill, Monstermitch, Agar, and Doc34 are all misleading people.
But yes, you are correct in that you do not absolutely have to soak WBS, but a good collection of old hands would disagree with you.
-------------------- If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach a man to cultivate mushrooms, you feed his mind for a lifetime. www.groworganic.com www.hydroponics.net/i/200002 www.bulbs.com/Compact_Fluorescent_Screw--in/Daylight_White-/results.aspx
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manyc
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Registered: 01/03/04
Posts: 571
Loc: Axis Mundi
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Re: Not letting WBS soak overnight [Re: DoctorRobert]
#7920774 - 01/23/08 05:20 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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I'm letting them soak overnight - I believe it's a lot smarter to be safe than sorry, especially with so much potential that could go to waste here.
If there is just one virtue a shroom farmer must have, it is surely patience.
So tomorrow, by the time I'm going to be PC'ing my jars, the birdseed will have been soaking for 16-18 hours.
I noticed just how much more mass the WBS obtains from soaking & simmering. It has left me with way more material than I'm probably going to need, haha. I had filled all my pint size jars almost to the top, because I figured I'd need to make up for the loss of mass that the sunflower seeds' removal would cause. I overdid it a bit - but whatever.
Maybe I'll go buy some more jars.
The color of the water after simmering was a really dark red. Made me feel like the seeds were being cleansed really well. I'm also going to strain a last time, and what I do is go at it in pieces with a smaller strainer (it's easier that way when working with huge amounts) and hit it with my sink's hose with hot water. It has a lot more pressure behind it than the faucet.
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Hemp could Save the World. "There is no flag that is large enough, to hide the shame of a man in cuffs." -Serj Tankian Know Thyself. "If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." -Terence Mckenna
Edited by manyc (01/23/08 05:24 PM)
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DoctorRobert
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Registered: 01/10/08
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Re: Not letting WBS soak overnight [Re: manyc]
#7920870 - 01/23/08 05:42 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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Good choice. There is no shortage of shortcuts one can take, but to do it right, is divine!
I agree with you, patience is the mycologists most important virtue.
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