|
fazdazzle
Wanderer


Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 1,796
Last seen: 11 years, 27 days
|
My meditation dilemma
#7917990 - 01/22/08 11:17 PM (16 years, 10 days ago) |
|
|
edit: I realized this might not be the right forum for this...but I saw spirituality so I thought it might fit. There isn't really much to debate here, so you (the mods) think it should travel elsewhere - make the move.
Hello!
I have a dilemma, which is rooted deep within myself. In my spiritual practices I seem to progress and move intuitively, but this particular thing I cannot seem to find the right road. I have been trying to work out different styles and overall movements through the course of my life which would get me to where I want to be, but none seem to be consistent enough...
I started meditating about 3 months ago and I loved it. My practice started out strong using the half lotus, but I soon realized that my posture was much too unstable for deep meditation. Realizing how inadequate my half-lotus was and through examination, I came to the conclusion I NEEDED to learn full lotus (for deep meditation).
At this point I had started studying some Zen Buddhism, so I though I would sit in Seiza and stretch until I was able to sit in full lotus, which would then take the spot as my default meditational asana. So far I've had a hard time making progress with my stretches in relation to the full lotus, even though I do yoga roughly 5 days a week. I'm also finding out that Seiza is not as solid of an asana as it seemed to be at first (it was only solid compared to my crappy half lotus!).
So where I stand right now I have an incredibly deep desire to experience God. To experience God I know that I need to be able to meditate deeply and fully...BUT my postures keep on impeding me. I feel like I just can't wait until my legs can stretch a certain way for me to dive into divine awareness. I'm like I'm a child, in a way; Give me the candy! But It's not selfish...I almost feel sad writing this because it's like I'm being locked out, when I want in so badly.
I guess then what I'm asking is, what is a reliable asana I can use to at least give me a solid base in meditation? I would like something that is not incredibly difficult to assume, but is stable and can allow for a reasonable depth of meditation. Meanwhile I hope to be making some progress on my full lotus, which I will completely switch to when I can make it happen without dislocating my kneecaps.
I would also welcome any advice on stretching to make full lotus easier.
I think it just may come down to work, work, work...but I can't just not meditate until I can finally work into a good posture...which is where I'm hoping ya'll can help me out with.
Thank you Thank you Thank you!!
Edited by fazdazzle (01/22/08 11:21 PM)
|
Neon
Stranger

Registered: 01/04/05
Posts: 497
|
Re: My meditation dilemma [Re: fazdazzle]
#7918104 - 01/22/08 11:41 PM (16 years, 10 days ago) |
|
|
Probably not what you are looking for, but have you thought about taking any herbs to help with meditation? Gotu kola, bacopa, reishi, and many others including chyawanprash have greatly deepened my meditation.
|
EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
|
Re: My meditation dilemma [Re: Neon]
#7918151 - 01/22/08 11:58 PM (16 years, 10 days ago) |
|
|
Full lotus looks difficult! I have trouble enough staying comfortable in half-lotus. Unfortunately I can't help in that department.
Sorry as this is a bit off topic, but I have a question for Neon.. do you know if any of the following herbs may be beneficial to use for meditation?:
Mugwort, Catmint, Woodruff , Betony, Blue Lotus, Blue Lily, Calamus, Galangal, Saffron, Neel Leaves, Brahmi, Indian Sarsapilla, Frankincense, Myrrh, Catnip, Passion Flower, Sage, Clove, Cinnamon, Wormwood and Blue Lotus.
Thanks!
--------------------
|
krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
|
Re: My meditation dilemma [Re: Neon]
#7918153 - 01/22/08 11:59 PM (16 years, 10 days ago) |
|
|
For me I would just stretch right after I woke up (and took a shower) every morning. After about a month or 2 of this I had no problem sitting in the full lotus position comfortably for long periods of time, though I was able to sit in it after 2-3 weeks, just not so comfortably.
You could also try exercising, this will help the blood flow, and thus help you stretch better as well. I would assume you've also tried this, but try taking a hot bath or shower before you meditate, this will help you stretch as well.
|
jonathanseagull
Cool!


Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 993
Last seen: 10 years, 11 days
|
Re: My meditation dilemma [Re: fazdazzle]
#7918992 - 01/23/08 07:46 AM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
|
|
Try laying down on the bed.
--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.
|
deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
|
|
Brahmi (Bacopa) works well in my experience. 400-600mg of phenibut works wonders. Also quality american ginseng provides a nice spacial feeling in the mind. A lot of it sold on the market is crap though, it's good to find a local grower and get it fresh and properly cured.
|
deranger


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
|
|
Laying down isn't recommended by some as it induces sleepiness which will cause the mind to wander.
|
eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--



Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 3,910
Loc: isle de la muerte
Last seen: 24 days, 8 hours
|
Re: My meditation dilemma [Re: deranger]
#7919066 - 01/23/08 08:17 AM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
|
|
You will not experience God through sitting still only, nor through drugs, but only through acclimatization to what is your essential nature, which takes time. For that, one must practice for many many years until one knows themself through and through. Then, with some insight one might come to know God. If you believe in it. Otherwise, what you still will have is what you are with no doubts. That, at least, is better than having beliefs about Gods and no self knowledge.
-------------------- ...or something
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
|
Re: My meditation dilemma [Re: fazdazzle]
#7919312 - 01/23/08 10:27 AM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
fazdazzle said: ...So where I stand right now I have an incredibly deep desire to experience God. To experience God I know that I need to be able to meditate deeply and fully...BUT my postures keep on impeding me. ...
uh uh uh...uh, just wait a minute: this question tells me a few things about your approach.
a. too much baggage in the "desire department" - i.e. spiritual consumerism - god as disneyland etc.
b. dissatisfaction with meditation due to performance anxiety attributed to posture - i.e. needing a firmer base for a deeper meditation (as if, once you are deeper down there, or up there in your meditative scuba gear, you will better be able to get your harpoon into God.)
Well I can't blame you for approaching god as if you are a hunter, or a shopper, or an athelete, these are the proper dignified ways of being human, right?
anyway you can get past that and you can meditate and gain benefit from doing so, but it will probably surprise you that it is not at all like a program from which you matriculate with godhead.
you already have it (godhead) you are just not paying attention to what is.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--



Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 3,910
Loc: isle de la muerte
Last seen: 24 days, 8 hours
|
|
I can't even get regular head let alone Godhead.
-------------------- ...or something
|
jonathanseagull
Cool!


Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 993
Last seen: 10 years, 11 days
|
Re: My meditation dilemma [Re: eve69]
#7919544 - 01/23/08 11:50 AM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
|
|
This is where a jar of peanut butter comes in handy.
--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
|
|
very funny you should say this years ago when I started meditation i reported to my teacher that I was getting to a point (repeatedly - day after day) where I felt like my body was made of peanut butter. (I knwe that it was a breakthrough kind of consciousness from very good continuous concentration, with relaxed posture and good breathing) to which my teacher declared that I was re-experiencing my womb time as an unborn person.
at this point in my journey, I would explain the peanutbutter body experience as framestacking in which several moments of concentrated meditative mind overlapped with initial application, some sustained application, and plenty of layered sensation (joy), particularized as randomly as it would be in a salvia trip, with no more meaning nor any less meaning.
still it was a jhana experience, one that might be tasty with toast.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
Neon
Stranger

Registered: 01/04/05
Posts: 497
|
|
Blue lotus, blue lilly, calamus, and galangal can be beneficial for meditation. Brahmi is a category of herbs used in ayurveda, most often bacopa or gotu kola, both of which can be very beneficial in meditation. Not sure about the other herbs you mentioned, have a feeling saffron would be beneficial. Out of herbs you listed, I would start with brahmi(bacopa or gotu kola), then add calamus.
|
Orbus
The Liberator



Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 85
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
|
Re: My meditation dilemma [Re: Neon]
#7921034 - 01/23/08 06:20 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
|
|
"So where I stand right now I have an incredibly deep desire to experience God. To experience God I know that I need to be able to meditate deeply and fully...BUT my postures keep on impeding me. I feel like I just can't wait until my legs can stretch a certain way for me to dive into divine awareness. I'm like I'm a child, in a way; Give me the candy! But It's not selfish...I almost feel sad writing this because it's like I'm being locked out, when I want in so badly. "
"A Zen master came upon a pupil who sat all day in the lotus position. He asked him what he was doing and the pupil replied that he was trying to become a Buddha. The teacher picked up a stone and began polishing it until the pupil asked what he was doing. The teacher replied that he was polishing it until it became a mirror. The pupil pointed out that the teacher would never make a mirror out of a stone and the teacher retorted that the pupil would never become a Buddha by sitting cross-legged."
My advice would be to spend less time worrying about your posture and what type of experiences you are having and more time on the question of who this you is that you think will achieve enlightenment.
Meditation is not necessary and can become a hindrance. Find out who you are. That's the only advice you need.
--------------------
------------------------------------------------------ Really, the fundamental, ultimate mystery -- the only thing you need to know to understand the deepest metaphysical secrets -- is this: that for every outside there is an inside and for every inside there is an outside, and although they are different, they go together. - Alan Watts
|
deimya
tofu and monocle



Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: ausländer.ch
|
Re: My meditation dilemma [Re: Orbus]
#7921121 - 01/23/08 06:37 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
|
|
I lay down on my bed and just let my head tinnitus grow into me, transforming all thoughts and activity into a flow. Sometimes I get flashbacks or full blown experiences just by doing so, most of the time I think it's like meditation: very refreshing and you get unasked insights.
|
appleorange
Rainbow Technician



Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 4,868
Loc: Reykjavík
|
Re: My meditation dilemma [Re: deimya]
#7921205 - 01/23/08 06:57 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
|
|
This is my personal favorite position. I'm a very tall guy who isn't very limber and cannot enjoy full-lotus either:
|
freddurgan
Techgnostic



Registered: 01/11/04
Posts: 3,648
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
|
Re: My meditation dilemma [Re: eve69]
#7921235 - 01/23/08 07:05 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
eve69 said: I can't even get regular head let alone Godhead.
  
|
kriminalelement
"jesus wept."



Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 1,201
Loc: Ay! los popos estan aqui!
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
|
Re: My meditation dilemma [Re: freddurgan]
#7921869 - 01/23/08 09:07 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
|
|
I don't understand how people have troubles with the full lotus. It's relatively simple, I snapped into it my first yoga class.
That being said, sitting in a lotus position wasn't what made me have a "god" experience. I sat cross-legged on the floor and sang a mantra with the other people in the class and the yogic nun. I felt myself floating over an endless ocean of love, connected to everyone there with me, and i began to cry.
I don't think achieving a full lotus will really help you all that much. If you feel unstable, lie down.
I don't think you'll be able to achieve a full lotus. After the onset of adulthood, you can't increase your limberness by all that much. The time to achieve flexibility is in your childhood and adolescence. If you didn't work on it then, you're sort of frozen where you are. Find a way to meditate that involves something other than a relatively meaningless position. I find focusing my energy by folding my hands tends to make my body feel a little more self-contained, but that's the only technique I employ that isn't mental.
-------------------- While there is a lower class, I am in it While there is a criminal element, I am of it While there is a soul in prison, I am not free. Eugene V Debs
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: My meditation dilemma [Re: fazdazzle]
#7922003 - 01/23/08 09:30 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
|
|
To experience God I know that I need to be able to meditate deeply and fully.
How do you know this? (I disagree by the way).
Usually when people have a overwhelming desire to know God or truth it is because they are fundamentally unhappy IMO. Often they are in deep denial about this and would never even seriously consider it. Yet I believe it to be very true. When one is happy and involved (flow state) with life there is little need to search for anything because they have accepted their humanness and made the most of it.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
TrippinNinjaBuddha
ShroominSamurai

Registered: 04/11/04
Posts: 279
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
|
|
Quote:
kriminalelement said:
I don't think you'll be able to achieve a full lotus. After the onset of adulthood, you can't increase your limberness by all that much. The time to achieve flexibility is in your childhood and adolescence. If you didn't work on it then, you're sort of frozen where you are.
I disagree. For the original poster, try savasana for meditation. I lay down and meditate all the time, it's wonderful. Watch your eyelids for a long time - you may encounter more than you would expect.
and listen
-------------------- Jumped in a river, what did I see? Black eyed angels swimming with me Moon full of stars and astral cars, all the figures I used to see All my lovers were there with me All my past and all my futures We went to heaven in a little rowboat There was nothing to fear and nothing to doubt
|
|