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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to???
#7917956 - 01/22/08 11:11 PM (16 years, 10 days ago) |
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First there was google metrics, and now this...
Awhile back the shroomery ran into some problems when people noticed that http requests were being funneled to google metrics. This gave google your IP address and exactly what pages you were looking at. The admins replied that they wanted better tracking of traffic and better traffic analysis. The same info could have been obtained from server logs using open source programs, but the shroomery decided to trust google with our IP addresses instead.
Once found out they quickly stopped the practice, however it is unknown how many IPs and how much data google collected on shroomery users, how it was used, and who it was shared with.
Well it looks like the shroomery is selling our clicks to amazon now.
Just what I always wanted, targeted advertising focusing on my semi-legal interests!
I'm curious what other companies the shroomery is selling my clicks (and also obviously IP address) to?
Don't all you users think that this is the sort of thing that should be discussed beforehand so that people can decide weather or not to opt out?
Why is it that we only find out when there are problems with the system and we discover who our IPs and page-views are going to?
-FF
Edited by fastfred (01/22/08 11:54 PM)
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implee
Cyber Hippie


Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 5,833
Loc: Houston, Texas.
Last seen: 5 months, 19 days
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: fastfred]
#7918544 - 01/23/08 02:30 AM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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ad blocker
And ps, im buying all your ip addresses
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: implee]
#7918654 - 01/23/08 03:26 AM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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atomicblue
Stranger



Registered: 11/09/07
Posts: 206
Loc: UP
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: Seuss]
#7920004 - 01/23/08 02:04 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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Sounds like it is nothing to worry about. Hey FF why would you basically re-post the same hysteria? When it was answered before.
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5150
phantom

Registered: 09/01/06
Posts: 5,437
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: fastfred]
#7920996 - 01/23/08 06:11 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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the shroomery could be run by the gov., who knows,i,ve never posted from home though or done any trades so let them sell anything they want to the highest bidder
-------------------- "the way of the warrior is the resolute acceptance of death" Miyamoto Musashi
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A3eyedfish
mycophile



Registered: 05/06/99
Posts: 1,454
Loc: Wut some people Call Par...
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: 5150]
#7921371 - 01/23/08 07:33 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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Anagram for Yathan.......An Thy
That answers it all right there.
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binarycircuit
Stranger
Registered: 10/03/07
Posts: 131
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: A3eyedfish]
#7929182 - 01/25/08 10:24 AM (16 years, 7 days ago) |
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2end4
Fuckin Immortal



Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 774
Loc: Aristonda
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: binarycircuit]
#7929229 - 01/25/08 10:39 AM (16 years, 7 days ago) |
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This kinda stuff is whats wrong with the internet, besides viruses of course. I got really mad because my school made a partnership with google. WHy wont all the hacker fuckheads channel all their extra time and energy into bringing those kinda things down. I dont like any of my personal information used to advertise against me goddamnit. I hope google and amazon crash forever.
BY THE WAY, THIS IS A SERIOUS ISSUE. PRIVACY SHOULD BE #1 PRIORITY HERE, AS WELL AS ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE NET. HERE PEOPLE ROUTINELY TALK ABOUT FELONYS THEY COMMIT, AND THIS INFO IS BEING CHANNELED TO GOOGLES ADVERTISING MACHINE.
Edited by 2end4 (01/25/08 10:44 AM)
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fapjack
Title



Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 16,574
Loc: Central New Jersey
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: fastfred]
#7930724 - 01/25/08 04:28 PM (16 years, 7 days ago) |
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Your posts keep getting better and better. Why don't you gb2 totse.
--------------------
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: fapjack]
#7931482 - 01/25/08 06:53 PM (16 years, 7 days ago) |
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I agree with you 2end4. The shroomery is not like myspace or other mainstream sites. They seem to act like they're just a regular site with little consideration for the fact that people here value privacy more than people on most sites.
If you read the other thread, which was directed at the administration, you'll notice that they didn't really bother to reply to me until I started to become concerned and raised some privacy questions.
Nothing was really answered except to tell me that they've been doing it for awhile and I'm over reacting.
I posted here to discuss the privacy issues that are raised and to notify people of what's going on. People need to know the issues involved with this type of off-site sharing of IP information so that they can make an informed decision on what level of security measures they need to take here and weather or not to even visit this site. That's why I posted here, not to just stir up shit.
They haven't really answered why they are doing this when other methods achieve the same result without compromising privacy. Their response really reeks of the same attitude they had to the google metrics scandal.
I like this site, which is why I'd like to see improvements in privacy where they can be made and also see all issues vetted openly.
One point I'd like to make to the people that would minimize this risk is that the government can simply seize the IP records from amazon and they will basically have the IP of every user or the shroomery. (Apparently even the supporters with banner ads turned off)
There is no legal protection for business records. They are treated almost like public record and have no protection against search and seizure by the gov. No warrant is required to examine "business" records. That means that almost any government agent could just walk into amazon's office and obtain every shroomery user's IP address with no warrant whatsoever.
The very fact that amazon is a big business and publicly traded means that they have no reason to cause any friction with the gov and they don't give a shit about us. They would not hesitate to turn over the records and would offer no resistance at all if asked. Any refusal to comply would be bad press for them and/or legal troubles, so they wouldn't even think of destroying the records or offering any resistance to turning them over.
That's why I'm posting here because the legal implications need to be discussed and users informed.
-FF
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: fastfred]
#7931511 - 01/25/08 06:59 PM (16 years, 7 days ago) |
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Another issue that I forgot to mention is that if the gov did decide to examine amazon's records the shroomery would never even know. Every user's IP would be compromised and nobody here would even have a clue. That's perhaps the worst part about this.
The issue is almost moot since amazon is not going to destroy these records, they're already recorded. Everyone here should consider their IP already compromised or easily compromised by any governemnt agent without even a warrant at some point in the future.
-FF
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bmiles
artist



Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 2,299
Loc: on the left side
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: fastfred]
#7931557 - 01/25/08 07:07 PM (16 years, 7 days ago) |
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this really surprises me that this is happening here of all places...
-------------------- Never go with a hippy to a second location.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: bmiles]
#7931590 - 01/25/08 07:12 PM (16 years, 7 days ago) |
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The thing is that it's standard practice amongst websites. I don't blame the shroomery at all. Unless they really thought out the issue beforehand they wouldn't have thought anything of it.
I don't really think they realize the legal implications of letting user IPs out of their control either. Business records aren't the same as private property and I'm not sure they realize the danger of selling this info to legitimate and respected companies.
-FF
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bmiles
artist



Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 2,299
Loc: on the left side
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: fastfred]
#7931605 - 01/25/08 07:15 PM (16 years, 7 days ago) |
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but then again, just posting this can give the wrong people bad ideas. that is if they are even reading our posts.
-------------------- Never go with a hippy to a second location.
Edited by bmiles (01/25/08 07:15 PM)
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tak
geo's henchman




Registered: 11/20/00
Posts: 3,776
Loc: nowhereland
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: bmiles]
#7933127 - 01/26/08 12:57 AM (16 years, 7 days ago) |
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My myspace page has nothing to do with mushrooms, purely private and professional...yet all the ads on the page are for mushroom grow kits
it's a little weird, not bad for me really but i can see why it may be a concern to some
-------------------- The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.
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hillbilly32
Stranger


Registered: 07/02/07
Posts: 68
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: tak]
#7933810 - 01/26/08 06:39 AM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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Use PeerGuardian Run either through the Tor network or some sort of Socks 5 proxy.
And don't do drugs kids, they kill :P
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drSE
Pseudo Reality




Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 4,432
Loc: Twighlight Zone
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: hillbilly32]
#7936381 - 01/26/08 05:55 PM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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I think that you need to watch the movie PCU
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Grow Room
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FurrowedBrow
Free yourself from yourself



Registered: 10/26/06
Posts: 2,439
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: fastfred]
#7937640 - 01/26/08 09:42 PM (16 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said: I agree with you 2end4. The shroomery is not like myspace or other mainstream sites. They seem to act like they're just a regular site with little consideration for the fact that people here value privacy more than people on most sites.
If you read the other thread, which was directed at the administration, you'll notice that they didn't really bother to reply to me until I started to become concerned and raised some privacy questions.
Nothing was really answered except to tell me that they've been doing it for awhile and I'm over reacting.
I posted here to discuss the privacy issues that are raised and to notify people of what's going on. People need to know the issues involved with this type of off-site sharing of IP information so that they can make an informed decision on what level of security measures they need to take here and weather or not to even visit this site. That's why I posted here, not to just stir up shit.
They haven't really answered why they are doing this when other methods achieve the same result without compromising privacy. Their response really reeks of the same attitude they had to the google metrics scandal.
I like this site, which is why I'd like to see improvements in privacy where they can be made and also see all issues vetted openly.
One point I'd like to make to the people that would minimize this risk is that the government can simply seize the IP records from amazon and they will basically have the IP of every user or the shroomery. (Apparently even the supporters with banner ads turned off)
There is no legal protection for business records. They are treated almost like public record and have no protection against search and seizure by the gov. No warrant is required to examine "business" records. That means that almost any government agent could just walk into amazon's office and obtain every shroomery user's IP address with no warrant whatsoever.
The very fact that amazon is a big business and publicly traded means that they have no reason to cause any friction with the gov and they don't give a shit about us. They would not hesitate to turn over the records and would offer no resistance at all if asked. Any refusal to comply would be bad press for them and/or legal troubles, so they wouldn't even think of destroying the records or offering any resistance to turning them over.
That's why I'm posting here because the legal implications need to be discussed and users informed.
-FF
I share your same concerns as well. This sounds like a serious issue to me. And you're right about the federal govs authority. They've made themselves God. I was watching a documentary the other day about this same issue. Very scary stuff.
-------------------- Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - Become a member!
I prefer dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery. ~ Thomas Jefferson
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2end4
Fuckin Immortal



Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 774
Loc: Aristonda
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: FurrowedBrow]
#7939619 - 01/27/08 10:29 AM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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So yeah, I would love to see some input from some ADMINs to justify this "I.P. SHARING" This is not just paranoia either.
-------------------- Praise Bob!
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2end6
Stranger

Registered: 01/28/08
Posts: 1
Last seen: 16 years, 4 days
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: 2end4]
#7944770 - 01/28/08 11:02 AM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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.
Edited by 2end6 (01/28/08 11:21 AM)
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drSE
Pseudo Reality




Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 4,432
Loc: Twighlight Zone
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: 2end6]
#7944819 - 01/28/08 11:16 AM (16 years, 4 days ago) |
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it doesn't say that you are banned
--------------------
Grow Room
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: 2end4]
#7949228 - 01/29/08 05:32 AM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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> So yeah, I would love to see some input from some ADMINs to justify this "I.P. SHARING"

Follow the original link I posted to the other thread the original poster created that has a reply by Ythan.
Rather than bitch and moan that we aren't doing enough to give you a false sense of security, perhaps you should invest in protection that actually works. The internet is like sex... it is up to you to protect yourself. You can use a free proxy service, such as TOR, to remain anonymous. You can block banner ads. You can become a supporter and turn off banner ads and use SSL. And if all that isn't enough, you can start your own site and run it however you like.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Lana
Head Banana


Registered: 10/27/99
Posts: 3,109
Loc: www.MycoSupply.com
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: Seuss]
#7949361 - 01/29/08 07:27 AM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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Seuss/Ythan is correct.
Its everyones OWN responsibility to protect themselves regardless of which website you stumble onto. One should not pass blame on this site or any other for not providing "protection".
Its very simple to implement basic security techniques. Most people don't use ANY kind of techniques so even a few minor tweaks in your browsing habits would take you a step above the rest.
And as far as the "IP sharing" goes, unless you have a truly dedicated IP address, you probably have a revolving IP address. Even then, most internet providers are very glad to hand over log files of their clients. My point is, you should be more concerned with your internet providers than you are a website
Lana
-------------------- Myco Supply - Distributors of Mycological Products http://www.MycoSupply.com The Premiere Source for Mushroom Growing Supplies. Visit us online or call us toll free
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: Lana]
#7951503 - 01/29/08 05:18 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Lana said: Its everyones OWN responsibility to protect themselves regardless of which website you stumble onto. One should not pass blame on this site or any other for not providing "protection".
Nobody is expecting the shroomery to provide "protection". I'm just pointing out that it probably isn't a good idea to ACTUALLY SELL users IP addresses to other companies.
Since it seems like this is what you're going to do anyways, and actually have been doing it for some time, then people at least deserve to know.
You should flat out state somewhere in the user agreement or the privacy policy "We sell your IP address to Amazon and other companies, and they use this to track your browsing habits and target you for mushroom related products."
One other point that I forgot to make earlier is that when law enforcement agencies get shroomery IP address lists they aren't going to know who posted what. They are just going to have one big list that is going to cause your name to come up in gov computers as flagged with something like "Member of illegal mushroom growing organization." So it doesn't really matter if you grow or not, you're going to get flagged as a shroomery member in one of the infamous lists they keep.
-FF
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: fastfred]
#7951526 - 01/29/08 05:23 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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For readers of this thread here are Ythan's responses from the "WTF? amazon.com/gp/site-directory/ error" thread I posted in feedback and administration.
Quote:
Ythan said: Er... we've had Amazon banners for years now, did you just notice them? We don't get paid by click but we do earn a commission if you follow a banner and buy something. There's a link to Amazon's privacy policy on all their banners and supporters can disable advertising through their display preferences. I don't see what the problem is.
Quote:
Ythan said: Yeah when you load a banner your IP address could be (and probably is) logged by Amazon. However, if you don't want to be associated with the Shroomery they do give you a way to opt out:
Quote:
If you do not want us to keep a record of the Amazon Associate websites you visit, you may opt-out of such information collection by clicking here. After you opt-out, we will no longer collect or use this information. However, all previously collected information will be retained by our systems to better personalize your web experience and improve our Amazon services.
If it really bothers you, I still suggest you get a supporter account and just disable banners.
Quote:
Ythan said: They do though, because the banner is loaded from their server. When your browser requests the banner for display, it includes your IP so the server knows where to send the response. That's the reason we give an option to block offsite images in posts as well. It's still not anything to worry about IMHO, but it's not accurate to say Amazon could never get your IP if you don't click on an ad.
Quote:
Ythan said: Yeah that's kind of the way I see it too. It's good that people want to be cautious online but this seems like kind of a non-issue. I don't think the feds are going to track someone down because they loaded an Amazon banner from a mushroom growing site. If the War on Drugs ever gets to that point we'll have much more serious problems...
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
Last seen: 1 hour, 58 minutes
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: fastfred]
#7952142 - 01/29/08 07:22 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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> One point I'd like to make to the people that would minimize this risk is that the government can simply seize the IP records from amazon and they will basically have the IP of every user or the shroomery. (Apparently even the supporters with banner ads turned off)
It is extremely easy to get the IP addresses of any and all shroomery users.
Would you like to know yours?
No need to ask amazon.
I have previously posted a method that works very well for hiding your IP address, and doesn't introduce massive latency like tor does.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7434519#7434519
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
Last seen: 1 hour, 58 minutes
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#7952290 - 01/29/08 07:48 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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If anyone here thinks their IP address is safe, PM me and I'll PM you back your IP.
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: 2end6]
#7952501 - 01/29/08 08:14 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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I agree that this likely isn't a big deal, likely nothing will come of it, and it is the shroomery's right, however; I also think the privacy policy could be a little more clear as to certain things (IP records) and I would also like it if the shroomery would positively acknowledge its revenue-generating methods that might disclose your information to others.
Sure its their right not to, but we all recognize that. THe point is while the shroomery is great as it allows these types of discussions to occure in the first place (i.e. Seuss didn't lock this thread, which would have happened on many other boards) it would be better if the specifics would be disclosed ahead of time: i.e. a notice on the privacy policy that some vendors may collect you ip information and associate it w/ your account for the purpose of targeted advertising, and that the only way to prevent this is to block their IP's or to purchase a supporter account and disable banners.
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: johnm214]
#7952531 - 01/29/08 08:17 PM (16 years, 3 days ago) |
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Additionally the privacy policy says this:
We may provide aggregate user information to third parties such as advertisers, but no personally identifiable information will be made available.
----
While I understand that it is likely the shroomery's position that you are providing your own IP (a personally identifiable piece of info by any definition of the term) when you request the banner from amazon or whomever, I think this is weak. By allowing the banner information to be included in the page source, they know that your IP will be transmitted to amazon. The privacy policy should be updated to reflect this.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: johnm214]
#7957890 - 01/30/08 09:12 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
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> We may provide aggregate user information to third parties such as advertisers, but no personally identifiable information will be made available.
Providing your IP is providing "personally identifiable information".
It's things like this that should be made clear. It's easy to see how someone reading the above statement would assume that their IP address is not being sold.
-FF
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wiggles
Miffed a Milf



Registered: 11/09/05
Posts: 2,615
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: fastfred]
#7958549 - 01/30/08 11:31 PM (16 years, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said: First there was google metrics, and now this...
Awhile back the shroomery ran into some problems when people noticed that http requests were being funneled to google metrics. This gave google your IP address and exactly what pages you were looking at. The admins replied that they wanted better tracking of traffic and better traffic analysis. The same info could have been obtained from server logs using open source programs, but the shroomery decided to trust google with our IP addresses instead.
Once found out they quickly stopped the practice, however it is unknown how many IPs and how much data google collected on shroomery users, how it was used, and who it was shared with.
Well it looks like the shroomery is selling our clicks to amazon now.
Just what I always wanted, targeted advertising focusing on my semi-legal interests!
I'm curious what other companies the shroomery is selling my clicks (and also obviously IP address) to?
Don't all you users think that this is the sort of thing that should be discussed beforehand so that people can decide weather or not to opt out?
Why is it that we only find out when there are problems with the system and we discover who our IPs and page-views are going to?
-FF
Ok, first off google does nothing with that information as per their privacy policy. I use google analytics on all of my sites and its an excellent tool to help show what parts of my sites users are visiting most, which advertising strategies are working best, etc. Yes it shows what pages your IP has visited, but however that information is only accessible to the shroomery staffers (who, I hate to tell you, can see your IP anyway).
I think this whole thing though can be answered with one simple statement: IF YOU DON'T WANT IT ON THE INTERNET THEN DON'T PUT IT ON THE INTERNET. This includes every website you visit, and every article you search for.
In the future before you post about this please: a) read the google analytics privacy statement b) loosen your tinfoil hat c) stop using the site if it bothers you. I for one welcome the use of metrics since it allows them to tailor the site better for us.
--------------------
  You can turn your back on a person, but never turn your back on a drug, especially when its waving a razor sharp hunting knife in your eye. Hunter S. Thompson
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: wiggles]
#7959048 - 01/31/08 02:56 AM (16 years, 1 day ago) |
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fyi, I posted my complaint about the privacy policy in feedback forum and ythan changed the policy, so you've got notice now.
That was the issue I personally had with it. Thanks for bringing this up fred
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: fastfred]
#7967821 - 02/02/08 08:05 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said: Once found out they quickly stopped the practice, however it is unknown how many IPs and how much data google collected on shroomery users, how it was used, and who it was shared with.
you worry about this from a website that has paid advertizing, yet you dont seem to worry about it when it's your ISP monitoring your actions, maybe that should be your first step, maybe is should be to stop using the internet all together since EVERYTHING is logged including all your google searches on scientific research regarding the cultivation of various mushroom species? do you think google didnt log all that then?
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#7968853 - 02/02/08 01:53 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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how do you know he doesn't worry about his ISP, whatever?
If your trying to say hes just a hysteric, that doesn't matter. The issue itself has nothing to do w/ your ISP.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: johnm214]
#7969958 - 02/02/08 06:44 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yes, let's avoid making strawman arguments and throwing in red herrings.
This thread is about a specific issue... The shroomery selling user IP addresses to third party companies.
People can go on all they want about my "tinfoil hat" and tell me what I should be worrying about, but I haven't made this issue any more than it is, just brought it out into the open.
-FF
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bmiles
artist



Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 2,299
Loc: on the left side
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#7969987 - 02/02/08 06:52 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
worry about it when it's your ISP monitoring your actions, maybe that should be your first step, maybe it should be to stop using the internet all together
haha
-------------------- Never go with a hippy to a second location.
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psilosibling
Registered: 04/14/07
Posts: 449
Last seen: 11 years, 10 hours
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: 2end6]
#7977988 - 02/04/08 03:02 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I would never have thought shroomery would have been doing this with the data. Show's you that fools are everywhere. Fools will sell there's and your freedom for a quick buck. Turncoats!
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psilosibling
Registered: 04/14/07
Posts: 449
Last seen: 11 years, 10 hours
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: psilosibling]
#7978086 - 02/04/08 03:26 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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p.s. Folks, get yourself TOR (search the net) http://www.torproject.org/download.html.en - Download the full Tor, Vidalia package.
It's open source software that alloys you to connect to other folk running the tor servers and tunnel your connection through theirs therefor making yourself hidden. The tunnels are encrypted.
Then get yourself Firefox (web browser) and install the 'Tor Button'. You could even get 'FoxyProxy' - these are plugin addons to firefox. The 'Tor button' is a button that activates and deactivated Tor thus switching between a direct connection between you and the hosted network (website) and tunneling your connections through other compueters connections thus being anonymous.
'FoxyProxy' is brilliant as it allows you to configure a list of websites for which to automatically activate Tor for. i.e. - put this site in your list and every time you log in to this you will look like your coming from China or Sweden or something.
Also, if you want to be careful with google there is an amazing addon for firefox out there called 'CustomizeGoogle' - this is amazing and lets you set all sorts of things like blocking the google adds to blocking the infamous google cookie that wont die in your lifetime and also things to block thier profiling tactics on your searches. There is also other sites out there which are like google mirrors but don't record your searches and logs are deleted from servers every 24-48 hours. - www.scroogle.org
Think about using secure, encrypted email systems - hushmail.com
Also, if you wanna start off afresh with your new hidden ID on this site it would be a good idea to delte your account and start afresh 
You might also want to encrypt any books etc you have on your computer. Hell I have a partition that's encrypted. truecrypt - this software will blow you away.. seriously.
Anyway, watch your privacy folks. You never know when one do you get busted for something and when the take your computer they know EVERYTHING about you. True anonymity isn't possible but make yourself as difficult to trace as possible.
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Chemy
Jesus is Lord

Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 6,276
Loc: A Church
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: psilosibling]
#7978106 - 02/04/08 03:29 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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I don't see why anyone is worried about this. How many unique visitors does this site have everyday? How many of those are people looking for info about hunting shrooms? How many of those are people looking for info about entheogens? How many of those are people looking for cultivation info? How many of those are people looking for someone to id their finds?
Now how would anyone link the IP from a amazon click to someone who posted a growlog? Only if ythan or an admin connected "the dots" so to speak, right?
I don't think anyone is going to subpeona 10,000 IP's through ISP's just to find that 9,500 of those IP's are linked to people that only pick or consume entheogens, and to get to the core there would have to be an investigation of 10,000+ people.
Oh well, maybe I don't make sense, or maybe I'm rationalizing it.
-------------------- Alcoholics Anonymous Narcotics Anonymous Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365. God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin. Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: Chemy]
#8016213 - 02/13/08 01:39 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chemy said: I don't see why anyone is worried about this. How many unique visitors does this site have everyday? How many of those are people looking for info about hunting shrooms? How many of those are people looking for info about entheogens? How many of those are people looking for cultivation info? How many of those are people looking for someone to id their finds?
How many bytes are on a modern hard disk? And how many bytes does it take to store your name and address?
The government likes to keep lists. They did the same thing with the anti-war movement. Maybe you only went to one war rally or signed some petition that passed by you, but your name might well have been recorded on an FBI list.
Regardless what your business is in visiting the shroomery the chances of them finding drugs on someone who is on the list is greatly increased over the random person.
The issue also isn't just about clicks. By loading the shroomery page you are sending a request for a picture to amazon and amazon knows that you've come from the shroomery.
-FF
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: fastfred]
#8016297 - 02/13/08 03:04 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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> By loading the shroomery page you are sending a request for a picture to amazon and amazon knows that you've come from the shroomery.
Sorry to add to your paranoia, but the government is taking and storing IP addresses directly from the wires at the major hops on the internet. Each packet you send has a source and destination address just like each letter you send has a to and a from address. For the government snooping, it doesn't matter to them if Amazon is in the mix or not. My big concern was the incorrect privacy statement we had posted, and my understanding is that it has been fixed. Beyond that, anything we do is nothing more than a false sense of security for the user.
If you want to be anonymous to the government when you surf the web, then you have to use some sort of proxy service, https connections (or something like tor that encrypts traffic end to end), disable javascript, disable java, visit only one site, and clear your cookies and caches when done. If you aren't doing all of that, then you are pissing in the wind when you worry about amazon banners. If you are doing all of that, then amazon banners don't matter.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: Seuss]
#8017037 - 02/13/08 10:45 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
If you aren't doing all of that, then you are pissing in the wind when you worry about amazon banners. If you are doing all of that, then amazon banners don't matter.
while your probably right from the perspective of someone not under investigation, of course the cops won't get all the information from shroomery and amazon for no reason, you might be wrong about the reverse: When someone allready is under investigation.
When this occurs, perhaps amazon information could be used to support a charge. i.e. someone posts about growing marijuana in a certain state... the police subpoena the shroomery, get the IP, and then subpoeana amazon. If amazon turns up searches for "how to grow marijuana in texas and be a big time drug dealer"" or purchases of "do it yourself meth lab" perhaps this could add to the case.
Obviously someone allready under investigation has better things to worry about, but I'm really impressed by the level of accuracy amazon hits me with.
i.e. they show me pages about biochemistry books and shit, when I probably haven't bought a biochem book from amazon in 18-24 months. I presume this isn't happenstance, as how many people on this site are likely to buy a biochemistry book? Seems a poor use of advertising, but then maybe amazon knows what pages I look at on here or something.
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Chemy
Jesus is Lord

Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 6,276
Loc: A Church
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: johnm214]
#8017077 - 02/13/08 10:53 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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The ads that show up in the amazon banner for me are for the "Growing gourmet and medi..." "Paul Stamets" and "Ball regular mouth canning jars" Stuff I have never purchased online. I have only bought a couple of things from amazon and that was a couple of books a year ago or so and nothing at all to do with mycology.
I will list all the ads I see: Hoffman AH 8Q Vermiculite/Mushroom Cultivator, Paul Stamets
Presto 23Q Pressure cooker/Mushroom Cultivator Paul Stamets
Ball regular mouth canning jars/Growing gourmet and medi... Paul Stamets
NOW foods organic brown rice/Kerr wide mouth mason jars
To be updated.....
EDIT: I've never ordered anything even remote to this stuff from amazon, nor have I searched amazon for this stuff, only thing I've ordered was a electronic tech. book I never read and a bio I ordered as a gift and there is nothing coming up in the banners for bio's or electronic tech books.
-------------------- Alcoholics Anonymous Narcotics Anonymous Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365. God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin. Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!
Edited by Chemy (02/13/08 11:45 AM)
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Ythan
ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ



Registered: 08/08/97
Posts: 18,774
Loc: NY/MA/VT Borderlands
Last seen: 1 hour, 53 minutes
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: Chemy]
#8017484 - 02/13/08 12:50 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
When this occurs, perhaps amazon information could be used to support a charge. i.e. someone posts about growing marijuana in a certain state... the police subpoena the shroomery, get the IP, and then subpoeana amazon. If amazon turns up searches for "how to grow marijuana in texas and be a big time drug dealer"" or purchases of "do it yourself meth lab" perhaps this could add to the case.
In this scenario it wouldn't matter if you viewed an Amazon banner or not. 
Quote:
I've never ordered anything even remote to this stuff from amazon, nor have I searched amazon for this stuff, only thing I've ordered was a electronic tech. book I never read and a bio I ordered as a gift and there is nothing coming up in the banners for bio's or electronic tech books.
We use Amazon Omakase banners, you can search Google for more information. The featured products aren't just based on items you've viewed or purchased, they also take into account the most frequent sales from that particular affiliate and keywords from the site itself.
Again, if it bothers you just sign up as a supporter and disable ads. Problem solved.
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GoodbyeOrb
Self-SacrificingPotency Tester



Registered: 04/09/07
Posts: 5,179
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: fastfred]
#8021315 - 02/14/08 08:00 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Didn't you know? You can buy the shroomery IP lists in the marketplace...
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blackegg
...has left the building.



Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 1,021
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: GoodbyeOrb]
#8026103 - 02/15/08 07:30 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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How many people visit The Shroomery daily, anyhow?
-------------------- 'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison
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GoodbyeOrb
Self-SacrificingPotency Tester



Registered: 04/09/07
Posts: 5,179
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: blackegg]
#8026136 - 02/15/08 07:49 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Apparently, a whole bunch.
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Madnessinc
Shrooming

Registered: 11/25/07
Posts: 59
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: johnm214]
#8027275 - 02/15/08 01:14 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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The moment you request information from the internet, your ip address is logged, not just in ONE place but EVERY place that requested information had to travel through. They track it for all sorts of information and purposes(network traffic & latency, Advertising profiling, number of hits to a site) Hell people, you go and check a book out of the library and there's a record of it somewhere for YEARS... There is NO business that refuses to track the buying habits of their customers. There is NO business that refuses to track the information flow they provide. To do so would be the height of stupidity, and a money loosing equation. If you don't like it, move to a third world country that hasn't realized that information is power. (or how you use that information is power... depends on which side of the debate your on.) and stop buying things. Grow or make your own. Other wise protect yourself. No one is responsible for your own safety but... well you. And if your unprepared to take up that responsibility, then find someone is who willing... and stop expecting some third party who doesn't know you, or care about you, to pick up the pieces you refused to deal with or change their business practices to suit YOU.
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GoodbyeOrb
Self-SacrificingPotency Tester



Registered: 04/09/07
Posts: 5,179
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: Madnessinc]
#8027306 - 02/15/08 01:21 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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blackegg
...has left the building.



Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 1,021
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: GoodbyeOrb]
#8027985 - 02/15/08 04:14 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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um...so how many people visit the shroomery?
-------------------- 'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison
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Ythan
ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ



Registered: 08/08/97
Posts: 18,774
Loc: NY/MA/VT Borderlands
Last seen: 1 hour, 53 minutes
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: blackegg]
#8028083 - 02/15/08 04:37 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Madnessinc said: The moment you request information from the internet, your ip address is logged, not just in ONE place but EVERY place that requested information had to travel through. They track it for all sorts of information and purposes(network traffic & latency, Advertising profiling, number of hits to a site) Hell people, you go and check a book out of the library and there's a record of it somewhere for YEARS... There is NO business that refuses to track the buying habits of their customers. There is NO business that refuses to track the information flow they provide. To do so would be the height of stupidity, and a money loosing equation. If you don't like it, move to a third world country that hasn't realized that information is power. (or how you use that information is power... depends on which side of the debate your on.) and stop buying things. Grow or make your own. Other wise protect yourself. No one is responsible for your own safety but... well you. And if your unprepared to take up that responsibility, then find someone is who willing... and stop expecting some third party who doesn't know you, or care about you, to pick up the pieces you refused to deal with or change their business practices to suit YOU.
Thank you Madnessinc I couldn't have said it better myself. 
Quote:
blackegg said: um...so how many people visit the shroomery?
How many daily hits does the shroomery get?
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blackegg
...has left the building.



Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 1,021
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: Ythan]
#8028836 - 02/15/08 07:20 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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-------------------- 'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison
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kake
The answer to1984 is 1776.




Registered: 05/06/99
Posts: 2,782
Loc: The 66th harmonic
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: blackegg]
#8032309 - 02/16/08 07:12 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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extortion
pay me or all your informations are belong to corporations
-------------------- The answer to 1984 is 1776.
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bmiles
artist



Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 2,299
Loc: on the left side
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: kake]
#8032312 - 02/16/08 07:13 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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why won't this thread die?
-------------------- Never go with a hippy to a second location.
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Boom
just a tester

Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 11,252
Loc: Cypress Creek
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: bmiles]
#8041703 - 02/19/08 05:58 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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you aren't helping
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Lana
Head Banana


Registered: 10/27/99
Posts: 3,109
Loc: www.MycoSupply.com
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: fastfred]
#8055410 - 02/22/08 07:55 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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This thread has been closed.
Reason: Well folks, this topic has been discussed. Questions have been asked and answered.
Lana
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