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InvisibledrSE
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: 2end6]
    #7944819 - 01/28/08 11:16 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

it doesn't say that you are banned


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: 2end4]
    #7949228 - 01/29/08 05:32 AM (16 years, 3 days ago)

> So yeah, I would love to see some input from some ADMINs to justify this "I.P. SHARING"

:rolleyes:

Follow the original link I posted to the other thread the original poster created that has a reply by Ythan.

Rather than bitch and moan that we aren't doing enough to give you a false sense of security, perhaps you should invest in protection that actually works.  The internet is like sex... it is up to you to protect yourself.  You can use a free  proxy service, such as TOR, to remain anonymous.  You can block banner ads.  You can become a supporter and turn off banner ads and use SSL.  And if all that isn't enough, you can start your own site and run it however you like.


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InvisibleLana
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: Seuss]
    #7949361 - 01/29/08 07:27 AM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Seuss/Ythan is correct.

Its everyones OWN responsibility to protect themselves regardless of which website you stumble onto.  One should not pass blame on this site or any other for not providing "protection". 

Its very simple to implement basic security techniques. Most people don't use ANY kind of techniques so even a few minor tweaks in your browsing habits would take you a step above the rest.

And as far as the "IP sharing" goes, unless you have a truly dedicated IP address, you probably have a revolving IP address.  Even then, most internet providers are very glad to hand over log files of their clients.  My point is, you should be more concerned with your internet providers than you are a website :smile:

Lana


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: Lana]
    #7951503 - 01/29/08 05:18 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Lana said:
Its everyones OWN responsibility to protect themselves regardless of which website you stumble onto. One should not pass blame on this site or any other for not providing "protection".




Nobody is expecting the shroomery to provide "protection". I'm just pointing out that it probably isn't a good idea to ACTUALLY SELL users IP addresses to other companies.

Since it seems like this is what you're going to do anyways, and actually have been doing it for some time, then people at least deserve to know.

You should flat out state somewhere in the user agreement or the privacy policy "We sell your IP address to Amazon and other companies, and they use this to track your browsing habits and target you for mushroom related products."

One other point that I forgot to make earlier is that when law enforcement agencies get shroomery IP address lists they aren't going to know who posted what. They are just going to have one big list that is going to cause your name to come up in gov computers as flagged with something like "Member of illegal mushroom growing organization." So it doesn't really matter if you grow or not, you're going to get flagged as a shroomery member in one of the infamous lists they keep.


-FF


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: fastfred]
    #7951526 - 01/29/08 05:23 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

For readers of this thread here are Ythan's responses from the "WTF? amazon.com/gp/site-directory/ error" thread I posted in feedback and administration.

Quote:

Ythan said:
Er... we've had Amazon banners for years now, did you just notice them? We don't get paid by click but we do earn a commission if you follow a banner and buy something. There's a link to Amazon's privacy policy on all their banners and supporters can disable advertising through their display preferences. I don't see what the problem is. :shrug:




Quote:

Ythan said:
Yeah when you load a banner your IP address could be (and probably is) logged by Amazon. However, if you don't want to be associated with the Shroomery they do give you a way to opt out:

Quote:

If you do not want us to keep a record of the Amazon Associate websites you visit, you may opt-out of such information collection by clicking here. After you opt-out, we will no longer collect or use this information. However, all previously collected information will be retained by our systems to better personalize your web experience and improve our Amazon services.




If it really bothers you, I still suggest you get a supporter account and just disable banners.




Quote:

Ythan said:
They do though, because the banner is loaded from their server. When your browser requests the banner for display, it includes your IP so the server knows where to send the response. That's the reason we give an option to block offsite images in posts as well. It's still not anything to worry about IMHO, but it's not accurate to say Amazon could never get your IP if you don't click on an ad.




Quote:

Ythan said:
Yeah that's kind of the way I see it too. It's good that people want to be cautious online but this seems like kind of a non-issue. :shrug: I don't think the feds are going to track someone down because they loaded an Amazon banner from a mushroom growing site. If the War on Drugs ever gets to that point we'll have much more serious problems...




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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: fastfred]
    #7952142 - 01/29/08 07:22 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

> One point I'd like to make to the people that would minimize this risk is that the government can simply seize the IP records from amazon and they will basically have the IP of every user or the shroomery. (Apparently even the supporters with banner ads turned off)


It is extremely easy to get the IP addresses of any and all shroomery users.

Would you like to know yours?

No need to ask amazon.

I have previously posted a method that works very well for hiding your IP address, and doesn't introduce massive latency like tor does.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7434519#7434519


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #7952290 - 01/29/08 07:48 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

If anyone here thinks their IP address is safe, PM me and I'll PM you back your IP.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: 2end6]
    #7952501 - 01/29/08 08:14 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

I agree that this likely isn't a big deal, likely nothing will come of it, and it is the shroomery's right, however; I also think the privacy policy could be a little more clear as to certain things (IP records) and I would also like it if the shroomery would positively acknowledge its revenue-generating methods that might disclose your information to others.

Sure its their right not to, but we all recognize that. THe point is while the shroomery is great as it allows these types of discussions to occure in the first place (i.e. Seuss didn't lock this thread, which would have happened on many other boards) it would be better if the specifics would be disclosed ahead of time: i.e. a notice on the privacy policy that some vendors may collect you ip information and associate it w/ your account for the purpose of targeted advertising, and that the only way to prevent this is to block their IP's or to purchase a supporter account and disable banners.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: johnm214]
    #7952531 - 01/29/08 08:17 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Additionally the privacy policy says this:

We may provide aggregate user information to third parties such as advertisers, but no personally identifiable information will be made available.


----


While I understand that it is likely the shroomery's position that you are providing your own IP (a personally identifiable piece of info by any definition of the term) when you request the banner from amazon or whomever, I think this is weak. By allowing the banner information to be included in the page source, they know that your IP will be transmitted to amazon. The privacy policy should be updated to reflect this.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: johnm214]
    #7957890 - 01/30/08 09:12 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

> We may provide aggregate user information to third parties such as advertisers, but no personally identifiable information will be made available.

Providing your IP is providing "personally identifiable information".

It's things like this that should be made clear. It's easy to see how someone reading the above statement would assume that their IP address is not being sold.


-FF


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Offlinewiggles
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: fastfred]
    #7958549 - 01/30/08 11:31 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
First there was google metrics, and now this...

Awhile back the shroomery ran into some problems when people noticed that http requests were being funneled to google metrics. This gave google your IP address and exactly what pages you were looking at. The admins replied that they wanted better tracking of traffic and better traffic analysis. The same info could have been obtained from server logs using open source programs, but the shroomery decided to trust google with our IP addresses instead.

Once found out they quickly stopped the practice, however it is unknown how many IPs and how much data google collected on shroomery users, how it was used, and who it was shared with.


Well it looks like the shroomery is selling our clicks to amazon now.

Just what I always wanted, targeted advertising focusing on my semi-legal interests!

I'm curious what other companies the shroomery is selling my clicks (and also obviously IP address) to?

Don't all you users think that this is the sort of thing that should be discussed beforehand so that people can decide weather or not to opt out?

Why is it that we only find out when there are problems with the system and we discover who our IPs and page-views are going to?


-FF




Ok, first off google does nothing with that information as per their privacy policy. I use google analytics on all of my sites and its an excellent tool to help show what parts of my sites users are visiting most, which advertising strategies are working best, etc. Yes it shows what pages your IP has visited, but however that information is only accessible to the shroomery staffers (who, I hate to tell you, can see your IP anyway).

I think this whole thing though can be answered with one simple statement: IF YOU DON'T WANT IT ON THE INTERNET THEN DON'T PUT IT ON THE INTERNET. This includes every website you visit, and every article you search for.

In the future before you post about this please:
a) read the google analytics privacy statement
b) loosen your tinfoil hat
c) stop using the site if it bothers you. I for one welcome the use of metrics since it allows them to tailor the site better for us.


--------------------


You can turn your back on a person, but never turn your back on a drug, especially when its waving a razor sharp hunting knife in your eye.
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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: wiggles]
    #7959048 - 01/31/08 02:56 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

fyi, I posted my complaint about the privacy policy in feedback forum and ythan changed the policy, so you've got notice now.


That was the issue I personally had with it. Thanks for bringing this up fred


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: fastfred]
    #7967821 - 02/02/08 08:05 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
Once found out they quickly stopped the practice, however it is unknown how many IPs and how much data google collected on shroomery users, how it was used, and who it was shared with.






you worry about this from a website that has paid advertizing, yet you dont seem to
worry about it when it's your ISP monitoring your actions, maybe that should be
your first step, maybe is should be to stop using the internet all together
since EVERYTHING is logged including all your google searches on scientific
research regarding the cultivation of various mushroom species? do you think
google didnt log all that then?


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #7968853 - 02/02/08 01:53 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

how do you know he doesn't worry about his ISP, whatever?

If your trying to say hes just a hysteric, that doesn't matter. The issue itself has nothing to do w/ your ISP.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: johnm214]
    #7969958 - 02/02/08 06:44 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Yes, let's avoid making strawman arguments and throwing in red herrings.

This thread is about a specific issue... The shroomery selling user IP addresses to third party companies.

People can go on all they want about my "tinfoil hat" and tell me what I should be worrying about, but I haven't made this issue any more than it is, just brought it out into the open.


-FF


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Invisiblebmiles
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #7969987 - 02/02/08 06:52 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:

worry about it when it's your ISP monitoring your actions, maybe that should be
your first step, maybe it should be to stop using the internet all together



haha


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Offlinepsilosibling
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: 2end6]
    #7977988 - 02/04/08 03:02 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I would never have thought shroomery would have been doing this with the data. Show's you that fools are everywhere. Fools will sell there's and your freedom for a quick buck. Turncoats!


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Offlinepsilosibling
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: psilosibling]
    #7978086 - 02/04/08 03:26 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

p.s. Folks,  get yourself TOR (search the net)  http://www.torproject.org/download.html.en    -  Download the full Tor, Vidalia package.

It's open source software that alloys you to connect to other folk running the tor servers and tunnel your connection through theirs therefor making yourself hidden.  The tunnels are encrypted.

Then get yourself Firefox (web browser) and install the 'Tor Button'.
You could even get 'FoxyProxy' -  these are plugin addons to firefox. 
The 'Tor button'  is a button that activates and deactivated Tor thus switching between a direct connection between you and the hosted network (website) and tunneling your connections through other compueters connections thus being anonymous.

'FoxyProxy' is brilliant as it allows you to configure a list of websites for which to automatically activate Tor for.  i.e. - put this site in your list and every time you log in to this you will look like your coming from China or Sweden or something.

Also,  if you want to be careful with google there is an amazing addon for firefox out there called 'CustomizeGoogle' - this is amazing and lets you set all sorts of things like blocking the google adds to blocking the infamous google cookie that wont die in your lifetime and also things to block thier profiling tactics on your searches.  There is also other sites out there which are like google mirrors but don't record your searches and logs are deleted from servers every 24-48 hours.  - www.scroogle.org

Think about using secure, encrypted email systems - hushmail.com

Also,  if you wanna start off afresh with your new hidden ID on this site it would be a good idea to delte your account and start afresh :wink:

You might also want to encrypt any books etc you have on your computer.  Hell I have a partition that's encrypted.  truecrypt - this software will blow you away.. seriously.

Anyway,  watch your privacy folks.  You never know when one do you get busted for something and when the take your computer they know EVERYTHING about you.  True anonymity isn't possible but make yourself as difficult to trace as possible.


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OfflineChemy
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: psilosibling]
    #7978106 - 02/04/08 03:29 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I don't see why anyone is worried about this.
How many unique visitors does this site have everyday?
How many of those are people looking for info about hunting shrooms?
How many of those are people looking for info about entheogens?
How many of those are people looking for cultivation info?
How many of those are people looking for someone to id their finds?

Now how would anyone link the IP from a amazon click to someone who posted a growlog? Only if ythan or an admin connected "the dots" so to speak, right?

I don't think anyone is going to subpeona 10,000 IP's through ISP's just to find that 9,500 of those IP's are linked to people that only pick or consume entheogens, and to get to the core there would have to be an investigation of 10,000+ people.

Oh well, maybe I don't make sense, or maybe I'm rationalizing it.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Who is the Shroomery selling YOUR IP address to??? [Re: Chemy]
    #8016213 - 02/13/08 01:39 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Chemy said:
I don't see why anyone is worried about this.
How many unique visitors does this site have everyday?
How many of those are people looking for info about hunting shrooms?
How many of those are people looking for info about entheogens?
How many of those are people looking for cultivation info?
How many of those are people looking for someone to id their finds?




How many bytes are on a modern hard disk? And how many bytes does it take to store your name and address?

The government likes to keep lists. They did the same thing with the anti-war movement. Maybe you only went to one war rally or signed some petition that passed by you, but your name might well have been recorded on an FBI list.

Regardless what your business is in visiting the shroomery the chances of them finding drugs on someone who is on the list is greatly increased over the random person.

The issue also isn't just about clicks. By loading the shroomery page you are sending a request for a picture to amazon and amazon knows that you've come from the shroomery.


-FF


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