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InvisibleAtheist
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Thoughts on a creator
    #7915091 - 01/22/08 03:05 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

I havent posted here in a while (although I never really did with P+S), but i thought that today might be different. The past few days iv been pondering the thoughts of a creator/designer. This is probably what many of you call GOD. I believed in God and Jesus for 18 years of my life, shit iv only been atheist for a little more than a year. Raised Catholic i really like Jesus and the holy spirit, and i felt really betrayed when i found out that none of it is true. Jesus did not come back to life and he never ascended into heaven. I stopped believing in heaven, and especially hell. Anyways, that aside....

Trying to figure out the answer to this shit is very frustrating and mindboggling. This planet is fucking PERFECT. It rotates around this ball of fire at the perfect speed, our days are the perfect length (excluding some places duh) and we even have dreams at night. It seems like it is all a little too perfect to just be 'coincidence.' I look at a human and i am blown away at how incredible we are, our personalities, hair cuts, voices...ETC, ETC

I imagine something sitting down and desiging the body and every fucking creature on this planet. But what made that THING?

This planet is fuckin hooked up, we got TVs, cell phones (which work like MAGIC dont they? its incredible), cars, planes, SPACE SHIPS, fuck.....ETC

and then i think....ok, actually this shit isnt perfect. there is disease, WAR, crime, species dying off every fucking day. Earthquakes, volcanoes, hurricanes. This planet is NOT perfect, not at all.

and as for all the technology, HUMANS made that shit not GOD. We are the same species as a black ass african straight out of africa. They look like SOO MUCH like apes (NOT BEING RACIST) it is obvious that evolution is real. I observe humans as the dirty disgusting human beings we are. We are filthy and bad (not all, obviously).

This is probably the longest post iv ever put on shroomery,
feel free to respond or challenge me and my thoughts :thumbup:


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InvisibleAtheist
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Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: Atheist]
    #7915105 - 01/22/08 03:08 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

oh and i forgot one thing, about how all fucking animals came on this planet. All lizards came from the fish things that slowly creeped onto land and every mammal came from the shrew ancestor. Monkeys and apes came from this shrew, and we came from the apes. I believe this planet has been spinning a LONG time thus all this fucking life. (thanks to water, carbon, air). im really stoned haha


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: Atheist]
    #7915167 - 01/22/08 03:20 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Atheist said:

Trying to figure out the answer to this shit is very frustrating and mindboggling. This planet is fucking PERFECT. It rotates around this ball of fire at the perfect speed, our days are the perfect length (excluding some places duh) and we even have dreams at night. It seems like it is all a little too perfect to just be 'coincidence.'





It seems perfect simply because we are accustomed to it. Our culture and biology have been adapting to our environment as long as we've been here. The organisms that have survived are the ones that do well with the length of days we have, and the climates we have, etc. The days are not 'the perfect length,' the organisms that currently exist have been evolving to thrive under these conditions. If you believe in evolution, how could it be any other way?

We can only discover the universe from the inside out -- that is, from a human perspective. That's why we thought the earth was flat for so long, because that's the way it looks from our limited viewpoint.

I don't see what's uncanny about any of it. Given the conditions in the universe as we understand them, and its size, and the amount of time involved, some pretty interesting things are bound to happen. Just a few of them are here on this particular rock.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7915222 - 01/22/08 03:33 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Also take into account that a lot of what you just said is speculation and theories. None of it is proven either way.

Human beings can't comprehend "nothing" and "infinite" or at least I can't anyway.


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InvisibleAtheist
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Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7915317 - 01/22/08 03:54 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

WhiskeyClone said:
Quote:

Atheist said:

Trying to figure out the answer to this shit is very frustrating and mindboggling. This planet is fucking PERFECT. It rotates around this ball of fire at the perfect speed, our days are the perfect length (excluding some places duh) and we even have dreams at night. It seems like it is all a little too perfect to just be 'coincidence.'





It seems perfect simply because we are accustomed to it. Our culture and biology have been adapting to our environment as long as we've been here. The organisms that have survived are the ones that do well with the length of days we have, and the climates we have, etc. The days are not 'the perfect length,' the organisms that currently exist have been evolving to thrive under these conditions. If you believe in evolution, how could it be any other way?

We can only discover the universe from the inside out -- that is, from a human perspective. That's why we thought the earth was flat for so long, because that's the way it looks from our limited viewpoint.

I don't see what's uncanny about any of it. Given the conditions in the universe as we understand them, and its size, and the amount of time involved, some pretty interesting things are bound to happen. Just a few of them are here on this particular rock.




very, very true


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: Atheist]
    #7916142 - 01/22/08 06:15 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Actually, you ARE being racist when you make childishly idiotic statements about Africans looking like apes. Dark skin and broader nostrils are adaptations to ultraviolet radiation and highly humid air. My narrow little nostrils cause me trouble enough in Miami humidity and I've been in a dense Nigerian forest with real apes - large lighthaired ones.

YOU might be suffering from the Catholic doctrine of Original Sin and still feel filthy because of it. I was born into a Jewish home and only later, neurotically embraced that sick doctrine. I feel SO much better having dumped it into the dungheap of other sick ideologies like the inferiority of other 'racial' groups. There's only ONE race and it's Human. Surface differences are no more significant than eye color to our Human constitiution.

As to the Christian mythos, you might consider that the Truths contained in myth are as powerful as the matter-antimatter contained in 'magnetic bottles' as in the StarTrek series. I know that it's fictional, but superhot plasmas in real science are contained in magnetic fields and high speed particles are contained and directed by magnetic fields. Metaphorically, the non-material 'magnetic bottle' is like the non-historical mythos - both contain Real energies. Myth is a universal pattern which, like skin color, is only superficially different. The core myths are universal and archetypal, deriving from the deepest level of the Human psyche.

Your assignment, if you wish to accept it, is to understand that manifest reality is a multidimensional phenomenon, and that historicity is not the arbiter of what Reality is. Exactly what Resurrection means, for example, must remain a Mystery, or else it becomes comprehensible as some kind of physical resusitation. THAT does not help anyone and is hardly what Transcendence of form is about. St. Paul NEVER spoke to a Resurrection of the flesh, only the much newer gospel (tomb) narratives did. They were written for the most simple of folk in the most concrete terms as 'public relations' pieces to 'sell' the new paganized religion to non-Jews. Jewish Christians never interpreted the Resurrection-Ascension-Return motifs in any crudely material/historical way, yet Jewish Christianity was stamped out as heretical. What endured was the TRULY heretical material promulgated by the Roman Catholic Church - that stuff that you rejected. Resurrection, the very basis of Christianity is regarded very differently from an Eastern Orthodox theology. It is about 'theosis' - our becoming God http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theosis. It is far more on the subjective, experiencial pole of Reality than some external, materialist version that the Latin (and Protestant) churches still cling to in their collective delusions. You needn't toss the baby (Jesus) out with the bathwater. You need to unlearn and relearn about the Christian mythos from a higher perspective and one that reconciles mystical insight with rationality about the world.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleAtheist
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Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7916358 - 01/22/08 06:53 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

i hate christianity with a PASSION, i think that it is the biggest lie the world has ever fell for

maybe religion in general i guess but christianity is one of the worst


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: Atheist]
    #7916383 - 01/22/08 06:56 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

You hate it? You're giving it all your power, we hate when we fear.
Also, I don't think that Christianity itself in responsible for what you hate... look deeper.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleAtheist
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Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7916398 - 01/22/08 06:58 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

i just hate that i was lied too, jesus is totally fake


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: Atheist]
    #7916411 - 01/22/08 07:00 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Get over it :shrug:
All of us were/are/will be lied, it's part of life.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineRonaldFuckingPaul
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Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7916585 - 01/22/08 07:28 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Take up my new religion..macdreanity:macdre:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
    #7916590 - 01/22/08 07:29 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

I am sorry, my religion is smirkist :smirk:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: Atheist]
    #7916602 - 01/22/08 07:31 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

I observe humans as the dirty disgusting human beings we are.

Well put.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: Atheist]
    #7917460 - 01/22/08 09:43 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Hate lies, hate yourself for being stupid, but dig for Truth, it's the only real treasure there is. Right now, you're just being reactive. No logic where you're at, you're just having a tantrum. Write back when you calm down.


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Offlinevigilant_mind
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Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: Atheist]
    #7918314 - 01/23/08 12:43 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

A few things:

1) The fact that the world is not "perfect," as you described it, does not rule out the possibility of a creator.

2) Evolution is not incompatible with the idea of a creator.

3) Whether we are "good" or "bad" says nothing about whether a creator exists.

It seems you're thinking of a creator that possesses specific characteristics. The idea of whether or not a creator exists is completely distinct from the matter of what properties that being would have.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: Atheist]
    #7918812 - 01/23/08 05:44 AM (16 years, 9 days ago)

> i hate christianity with a PASSION, i think that it is the biggest lie the world has ever fell for

By hating, you are empowering that which you hate to control your life.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

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Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: Seuss]
    #7918943 - 01/23/08 07:13 AM (16 years, 9 days ago)

Kitty Eagle is legion and will smite you all for your insolence, hail Ra Hoor Kitty!

:kittyeagle::kittyeagle::kittyeagle::kittyeagle::kittyeagle::kittyeagle::kittyeagle:


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InvisibleAtheist
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Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: Seuss]
    #7920154 - 01/23/08 02:52 PM (16 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> i hate christianity with a PASSION, i think that it is the biggest lie the world has ever fell for

By hating, you are empowering that which you hate to control your life.




hate = strong disliking towards something

i really, REALLY, do not like christianity/christians that think they are special cuz they luv jesus


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: Atheist]
    #7920481 - 01/23/08 04:30 PM (16 years, 9 days ago)

well people sure seem to be getting fired up about somebody's cultural conditioning.
seeing the cultural conditioning should flag acceptance and compassion - outrage only if there is effective trouble emanating.
what I see emanating is curiosity,
confusion,
and concern.

maybe it is just stoned talk, but the curiosity and concern can be commuted into compassion and this is among the best of things that humans can be involved in.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineShroomFan
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Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7920722 - 01/23/08 05:11 PM (16 years, 9 days ago)

world is not terrible. what is terrible is our current equation of GOVERNMENT < PEOPLE

once we achieve PEOPLE > GOVT then we can talk about the world being bad.

lets take control folk, HELP ME HELP YOU


--------------------
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OfflineBoots
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Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: Atheist]
    #7920734 - 01/23/08 05:13 PM (16 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Atheist said:
I havent posted here in a while (although I never really did with P+S), but i thought that today might be different. The past few days iv been pondering the thoughts of a creator/designer. This is probably what many of you call GOD. I believed in God and Jesus for 18 years of my life, shit iv only been atheist for a little more than a year. Raised Catholic i really like Jesus and the holy spirit, and i felt really betrayed when i found out that none of it is true.




Well, nothing's really 'true', is it? I mean, my truth is different from your truth and that's different from my dad's truth, etc. Therefore, all truths are false and it doesn't matter anyway. My feeling on religion and any theory that tries to explain how/why we were created is as such: either one of them's right or they're all wrong. On a side note, you didn't 'find out' anything; you just ruled out a possibilty, which is harmful and stupid.

Quote:

Atheist said:Trying to figure out the answer to this shit is very frustrating and mindboggling.


Why do you need to find an answer? Just be.

Quote:

Atheist said: I look at a human and i am blown away at how incredible we are, our personalities, hair cuts, voices...ETC, ETC




That has everything to do with culture and society and nothing to do with humans as a species.


Quote:

Atheist said: actually this shit isnt perfect. there is disease, WAR, crime, species dying off every fucking day. Earthquakes, volcanoes, hurricanes. This planet is NOT perfect, not at all.




Earthquakes, volcanoes, and hurricanes are part of the Earth's natural processes. For example, forest fires are supposed to happen. There are seeds that do not 'function' properly until they have been heated.

Quote:

Atheist said: We are the same species as a black ass african straight out of africa. They look like SOO MUCH like apes (NOT BEING RACIST) it is obvious that evolution is real. I observe humans as the dirty disgusting human beings we are. We are filthy and bad (not all, obviously).





That makes absolutely no sense. I believe in evolution but just something because one species looks similar to another means that one evolved from the other. Birds don't look too much like dinosaurs and humans sure as fuck don't look like shrews (my Biology teacher says that a theory in the scientific community is that humans evolved from a shrew-like organism that was around during the time of the dinosaurs).

Also, you realize that all of your opinions (not just yours but everybody's) is a result of pre-conditioning? Were we able to look at this world through an objective lens, we might see things a little differently.


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7921878 - 01/23/08 09:08 PM (16 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
well people sure seem to be getting fired up about somebody's cultural conditioning.
seeing the cultural conditioning should flag acceptance and compassion - outrage only if there is effective trouble emanating.
what I see emanating is curiosity,
confusion,
and concern.

maybe it is just stoned talk, but the curiosity and concern can be commuted into compassion and this is among the best of things that humans can be involved in.




:smile:


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: Atheist]
    #7921936 - 01/23/08 09:16 PM (16 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Atheist said:
i just hate that i was lied too, jesus is totally fake




I understand your anger here. I felt the same for a long, long time (and still do occasionally). We are lied to about a thousand things in the culture we belong to. There is nothing to be done about it except to except that, that is the way things have played out and then try to repair the damage to yourself, (not to others). It takes years of dedication to make progress in my experience but what else have you got to do until  you die?:thumbup:  Then one day you may feel like changing your name from Athiest to Agnostic.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (01/23/08 09:17 PM)


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InvisibleAtheist
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Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: Icelander]
    #7922142 - 01/23/08 10:03 PM (16 years, 9 days ago)

im both


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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7922336 - 01/23/08 10:38 PM (16 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

WhiskeyClone said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
well people sure seem to be getting fired up about somebody's cultural conditioning.
seeing the cultural conditioning should flag acceptance and compassion - outrage only if there is effective trouble emanating.
what I see emanating is curiosity,
confusion,
and concern.

maybe it is just stoned talk, but the curiosity and concern can be commuted into compassion and this is among the best of things that humans can be involved in.




:smile:




first post i read in this thread. :mushroom2:


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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: Atheist]
    #7922361 - 01/23/08 10:41 PM (16 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Atheist said:
im both




sounds demanding, being two things.

:tongue:


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Offlineigwna
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Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #7922545 - 01/23/08 11:13 PM (16 years, 9 days ago)

it sorta sounds like you (thread starter) still wants to believe in god as much as you also WANT to believe its all a fake.

no way you FOUND OUT jesus was a fake and that there is no heaven because it simply hasn't been proved. it seems very unlikely but no where does it say it is completely out of the question.


--------------------
I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.



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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: Atheist]
    #7923507 - 01/24/08 09:23 AM (16 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Atheist said:
im both




mutually exclusive


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibledeimya
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Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: Icelander]
    #7923818 - 01/24/08 11:11 AM (16 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Atheist said:
im both




mutually exclusive




Can't one believe not in gods yet stand and claim not to know about what's left of knowledge when devoid of the supernatural ? To restrict atheism and agnosticism to the creator/supernatural question, where indeed they may be mutually exclusive, seems to me to be quite cultural centric. Atheism need not be materialism, agnosticism need not be about this or that particular type of knowledge.


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: Atheist]
    #7924028 - 01/24/08 12:27 PM (16 years, 8 days ago)

Its real. Words have many meanings. Jesus exists in the collective as an energy signature. Find that bastard. If Lucifer is associated with the Sun you know where to look.


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: backfromthedead]
    #7924072 - 01/24/08 12:41 PM (16 years, 8 days ago)

jesus is compassion energy signature


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7924081 - 01/24/08 12:43 PM (16 years, 8 days ago)

maybe both.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7924088 - 01/24/08 12:44 PM (16 years, 8 days ago)

He made a bling bling sig. now :hehehe:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: deimya]
    #7924123 - 01/24/08 12:51 PM (16 years, 8 days ago)

I'm talking about the subject at hand.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleAtheist
Stranger
Male User Gallery


Registered: 01/24/06
Posts: 13,705
Loc: USA
Re: Thoughts on a creator [Re: Icelander]
    #7929722 - 01/25/08 01:02 PM (16 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Atheist said:
im both




mutually exclusive




what does that mean?


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