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InvisibleZippoZM
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world wide economic collapse?
    #7912672 - 01/21/08 10:32 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

markets are falling worldwide as of yesterday. however American stock markets were closed due to a national holiday, MLK day.

when they open Tuesday and do not recover from last weeks losses, i fear that we may be entering into a recession or a depression.

Im quite curious to see if the us govt. will intervene in the situation


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PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


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OfflineMaverick
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: ZippoZ]
    #7912712 - 01/21/08 10:38 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Yeah, let's see how the world goes tomorrow...


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InvisibleMistaUNGA
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: ZippoZ]
    #7912719 - 01/21/08 10:39 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Two words: Ron Paul.

We need somebody, ANYBODY that is willing to ignore big interests and do what's best for the people. I thought that was the purpose of gov't... The tax-cut that Bush is proposing is just a hand-job for the American people imo. Their message is that they hope Americans will go out and immediately spend this to help the economy. What they should REALLY be saying to us is to SAVE it. But sadly, nobody knows how to save anymore in this consumerist society. :shrug:


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:gc:
Madtowntripper said:Or just give her a cloroform soaked rag and tell her it's ether!


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Invisiblememes
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: MistaUNGA]
    #7912765 - 01/21/08 10:49 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

MistaUNGA said:
What they should REALLY be saying to us is to SAVE it. But sadly, nobody knows how to save anymore in this consumerist society. :shrug:



everyone saves ----> consumption falls -------> business suffers -------> jobs lost -------> etc.


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OfflineWScott
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: MistaUNGA]
    #7912790 - 01/21/08 10:54 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

MistaUNGA said:
Two words: Ron Paul.

We need somebody, ANYBODY that is willing to ignore big interests and do what's best for the people. I thought that was the purpose of gov't... The tax-cut that Bush is proposing is just a hand-job for the American people imo. Their message is that they hope Americans will go out and immediately spend this to help the economy. What they should REALLY be saying to us is to SAVE it. But sadly, nobody knows how to save anymore in this consumerist society. :shrug:




Problems with the stock market might be a wake up call to the people. Help them see who speaks about finances and knows his shit.


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Invisiblememes
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: WScott]
    #7912815 - 01/21/08 11:00 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

unfortunately the only wake up call to the people a drastic fall in stock prices sends is this: GET OUT

Crashing markets causes investors to pull their funds ASAP to avoid taking a bigger hit


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OfflineWScott
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: memes]
    #7912844 - 01/21/08 11:06 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Dependance on the dollar is even more prevalent then in the 1930's too.. not too mention that self-sufficiency is a far concept from peoples minds. Does this really have the potential to be a pretty big deal?


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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: WScott]
    #7912900 - 01/21/08 11:12 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Im not worried. Tomorrow would be the time to buy if you are at all interested.


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InvisibleKillerPicklez
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: WScott]
    #7912901 - 01/21/08 11:13 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

There really isnt a single canidate I really feel that can "save" the US economy. I do think a stimulus package will be passed very soon though. Bush has already purposed a 150B. Package which would give every American approx. 200-250$ to help boost the economy.

Ron Paul has no chance at winning the election, ive already come to that realization. Hes only got about 4% of the Republican vote in each primary so far, including in New Hampshire which is a largely independent state. He is beating Rudy Guliani so far though :wink:

Sadly, I think either Clinton or Romney would be the best economical president. However I currently support Obama, and ive been hoping he would run for President since 2004.


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InvisibleMistaUNGA
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: memes]
    #7913143 - 01/21/08 11:59 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Saving doesn't necessarily mean halting the economy. The biggest problem with our economy is that everybody is spending money they don't have (read: credit). Whereas, if you have the money in an account and choose to buy something, it is debited immediately (one reason I love my debit card, but only hold a gas credit card to build credit).

Saving money is not only sound advice for individuals, but for the government too. When Bush took over, we were 3 trillion dollars in debt. Now we're around 9 trillion. THAT'S AWFUL! To borrow from Dr. Paul, ending the war in Iraq would save us billions of dollars that could be better spent at home. The same *should* hold for individuals. Stop spending so much money on shit you *DON'T NEED*, but save it for stuff you DO need (ie. appliances, medical bills, real estate, etc).

That's my point.


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:gc:
Madtowntripper said:Or just give her a cloroform soaked rag and tell her it's ether!


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InvisibleKillerPicklez
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: MistaUNGA]
    #7913164 - 01/22/08 12:02 AM (16 years, 11 days ago)

the problem with our economy isnt so much credit buying, its more government spending in my opinion. that and unethical business practices by lenders in the housing sector, however it looks like stupid people are going to be bailed out by the government.


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Offlinemoses
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: ZippoZ]
    #7913229 - 01/22/08 12:17 AM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Well...there will for sure be some problems in the future. But nothing as bad as the great depression. We have somewhat learned from some of our mistakes...and back then we were 100% capitalist. If things get too bad the government will step in now a days.


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Invisiblealphabeatu
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: ZippoZ]
    #7913258 - 01/22/08 12:25 AM (16 years, 11 days ago)

could be the time to start stocking up on the little things like salt/pepper,matches,dried goods like oats,flour and noodles
canned stuff and ammo


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i need names and addresses of narc members

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: ZippoZ]
    #7913604 - 01/22/08 02:34 AM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

world wide economic collapse?





Yes, in time its inevitable.

GW Bush publicly considered to give every American $800 to boost the economy. That sir is end-of-the-rope desperation.

Get out of debt. Own the house you live in. Put a good supply of food and drink in your pantry.
The storm is coming.


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Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: Asante]
    #7913979 - 01/22/08 09:50 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Put a good supply of food and drink in your pantry.




Do you guys really think it is going to reach this point?

I think people are going to have to finally adjust to only buying what they can afford for once. This will be a huge adjustment for many, in terms of the home you live in, the car you drive, the luxuries you enjoy. But how many of you really think this current trend is going to result in disaster conditions, anarchy, the downfall of society, etc?


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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InvisibledrSE
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7913992 - 01/22/08 09:55 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

i for one do already purchase the food i can afford, and i would hate to see me just not be able to afford food.

i choose anarchy.


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Grow Room



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InvisibleAsante
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7914009 - 01/22/08 10:03 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

disaster conditions, anarchy, the downfall of society, etc?




I'm not saying that. But a well-stocked pantry is a great thing to have in case of supply interruptions, and a supply interruption can happen just like that. If theres a hyperinflation, your cheap food will replace buying grossly overpriced food in the stores.

There are many reasons to have a well-stocked pantry.

One morning I woke up and my tap spewed brown water as they were fixing the pipe down the street. I popped open a bottle of mineral water and started up the coffee machine. :coffee:

If I have unexpected dinnerguests, I can feed them a good meal right away.

People since the dawn of civilization have kept well-stocked pantries. It really pays to have one of your own.

Take the New Orleans situation. Some "preparedness nuts" were up to speed with local conditions and were out of there before Katrina hit. People who didn't or couldn't leave but who had things to fall back on were at a great advantage. Climate is only getting extremer.

As to your question: I would not be surprised if the Dollar at some point in the next ten years would be worth a dime of what it is now. Hell, you might be paying in Ameros in 2018.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
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Invisibleidiotek
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: ZippoZ]
    #7914026 - 01/22/08 10:10 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Gee whiz, did you come up with that on your own or did you get it from one of the multitudes of news outlets that have been forecasting the recession for like a week now?  :flowstone:

Bush already proposed an economic stimulus plan (not to say that it's going to make much of a difference considering people are going to spend their rebates, etc on repaying bills rather than spending it on frivolous materialistic shit in order to "stimulate" the economy)..


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Offlinesam420
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: idiotek]
    #7914115 - 01/22/08 10:44 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

If people keep fucking and using up resources, its only going to go one way.


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Invisiblememes
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: idiotek]
    #7914117 - 01/22/08 10:44 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Jesus people - quit being such doomsday conspirators

It will all be OKAY :-D


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OfflineRebirtha
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: memes]
    #7914183 - 01/22/08 11:00 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

meams said:
Jesus people - quit being such doomsday conspirators

It will all be OKAY :-D


\


Haha you get the sense that everybody on here has been waiting for this. Hell maybe it is good, maybe we need some major changes and a recession would be the catalyst to change.


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Invisiblememes
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: Rebirtha]
    #7914219 - 01/22/08 11:07 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

but it wont happen.

Recession may (probably will) happen, but all it will be is a few quarters (maybe years) of slow growth. Money will be tight - everyone will bitch and complain. Someone will be blamed. Eventually, after X, Y, and Z get put into place/enacted - everything will be back to normal and we'll have another bullshit administration with a equally BS legislature, passing laws enforced by a terribly orchestrated judicial system.

America, Fuck yeah!


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: memes]
    #7914265 - 01/22/08 11:20 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

For a second I thought we were in trouble but then you reminded me of X, Y, and Z!

Thank god for those letters. Where would we be without 'em?


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"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #7914281 - 01/22/08 11:26 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

X+Y+Z = North American Union.


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OfflineSyle
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: Middleman]
    #7914290 - 01/22/08 11:29 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Middleman said:
X+Y+Z = North American Union.




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https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!


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OfflineAJ4U Happy Birthday!
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: Rebirtha]
    #7914309 - 01/22/08 11:34 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Evan said:
Quote:

meams said:
Jesus people - quit being such doomsday conspirators

It will all be OKAY :-D


\


Haha you get the sense that everybody on here has been waiting for this. Hell maybe it is good, maybe we need some major changes and a recession would be the catalyst to change.




Theres nothing more i'd like to see then the US fall as a 3rd world country


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: memes]
    #7914310 - 01/22/08 11:34 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Recession may (probably will) happen, but all it will be is a few quarters (maybe years) of slow growth. Money will be tight - everyone will bitch and complain.





You already have a large number of poor in America. People on food stamps. People who can't afford the most basic insurance. People who eat macaroni every day because they can't afford decent food. These people will be put through the wringer by a substantial recession. Its more than bitching and complaining. Many Americans can't afford a recession, or any more inflation.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: Syle]
    #7914314 - 01/22/08 11:35 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Syle said:
Quote:

Middleman said:
X+Y+Z = North American Union.







So its your contention that the NAU will save the American economy?


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: Asante]
    #7914319 - 01/22/08 11:37 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Yeah, inflation is the real killer. And it seems that the only fix the "serious" candidates can offer is more.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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Offlinenotapillow
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #7914350 - 01/22/08 11:44 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

this economi collapse was elluded to in my sexy dream. beware the food wars


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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: AJ4U]
    #7914476 - 01/22/08 12:29 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

AJ4U said:
Theres nothing more i'd like to see then the US fall as a 3rd world country


Yea starving desperate people is awsome  :rolleyes:  ass


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OfflineAJ4U Happy Birthday!
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: DieCommie]
    #7914689 - 01/22/08 01:28 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

AJ4U said:
Theres nothing more i'd like to see then the US fall as a 3rd world country


Yea starving desperate people is awsome  :rolleyes:  ass




*Awesome

Who said anything about starving? I'd just like to see the US loose its ability as a world power


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Invisiblememes
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: Asante]
    #7914866 - 01/22/08 02:22 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Quote:

Recession may (probably will) happen, but all it will be is a few quarters (maybe years) of slow growth. Money will be tight - everyone will bitch and complain.





You already have a large number of poor in America. People on food stamps. People who can't afford the most basic insurance. People who eat macaroni every day because they can't afford decent food. These people will be put through the wringer by a substantial recession. Its more than bitching and complaining. Many Americans can't afford a recession, or any more inflation.



Yep, we got poor people, and in the recession they will be relatively poorer. They will be forced to, instead of eating macaroni they make on their stove, wait in line at a government sponsored soup line or something of that sort just like back in the days of the great depression. It will suck - but theres nothing that can be done to stop it.

Economic cycles are supreme - they cannot be stopped. They can be slowed, staved off, or have their effects lessened via government intervention etc, but all in all they happen. All I am arguing, is that this recession will not lead to a worldwide economic collapse.


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Invisiblememes
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: AJ4U]
    #7914874 - 01/22/08 02:24 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

AJ4U said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

AJ4U said:
Theres nothing more i'd like to see then the US fall as a 3rd world country


Yea starving desperate people is awsome  :rolleyes:  ass




*Awesome

Who said anything about starving? I'd just like to see the US loose its ability as a world power




Who said anything about starving?  You did, when you said you wish to see the US as a 3rd world country.  Hrm - what do all 3rd world countries have in common?  starvation.


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Invisiblememes
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: memes]
    #7914894 - 01/22/08 02:28 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Remember people, while it may get bad, the government always has the ability to dump billions and billions of dollars they don't have (yes, increasing the national debt) in order to bail us out of any immediate trouble.

Even if we were to increase the US debt from 9T to 26T (yes, that's an increase of 17 TRILLION DOLLARS) it would still be somewhat manageable. After WWII England had a national debt that was over 200% of its annual GDP. Right now, our GDP is ~13.7T, which puts our national debt at only 66% of our annual GDP.

Again, I say: if worst comes to worst, we'll STILL be allright.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: memes]
    #7914895 - 01/22/08 02:28 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Just as long as people still sell drugs, I'll be happy.


--------------------
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drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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OfflineRebirtha
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: memes]
    #7914906 - 01/22/08 02:29 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

meams said:
Economic cycles are supreme - they cannot be stopped. They can be slowed, staved off, or have their effects lessened via government intervention etc, but all in all they happen. All I am arguing, is that this recession will not lead to a worldwide economic collapse.




So your saying that we could drastically change how our whole economy fuctions and it wouldn't effect it because its part of the economic cycle? If you change how the economy functions then you have new ecomic cycles because it's a different situation.


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Invisiblememes
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: g00ru]
    #7914908 - 01/22/08 02:29 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

people will sell drugs as long as their is a demand - you can be damn sure of that.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: memes]
    #7914913 - 01/22/08 02:30 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

And video games. I'd really prefer it if in spite of worldwide collapse, we could find a way to retain video games.


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Invisiblememes
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: Rebirtha]
    #7914914 - 01/22/08 02:30 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Evan said:
So your saying that we could drastically change how our whole economy fuctions and it wouldn't effect it because its part of the economic cycle? If you change how the economy functions then you have new ecomic cycles because it's a different situation.



i couldn't even comprehend that statement

edit: maybe i think i figured out what you're attempting to get across. But i think you have the definition of an economic cycle misunderstood. Economic cycle is the trend of growth/recession over and over and over (in a nutshell)

so, changing the way our economy works (not sure what you mean by that) won't change the fact that our economy will still go through its natural cycle, as it always has. Unless you (somehow) take away the ability to do poorly, in which case recession will cease to exist.


Edited by memes (01/22/08 02:33 PM)


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OfflineRebirtha
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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: memes]
    #7914930 - 01/22/08 02:32 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

in short words: Nothing we do can stop a recession?


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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: Rebirtha]
    #7914947 - 01/22/08 02:34 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

essentially.

Quote:

They can be slowed, staved off, or have their effects lessened via government intervention etc, but in the end they happen.






Edited by memes (01/22/08 02:36 PM)


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Re: world wide economic collapse? [Re: AJ4U]
    #7917081 - 01/22/08 08:52 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:


AJ4U said:
Theres nothing more i'd like to see then the US fall as a 3rd world country





Your beef probably is with the US government, and not its people per se. What you fail to see is that when this happens, the American "powers that be" will not suffer ONE BIT. For them it just opens up other ways to make money.

The American lower middle class and the poor however will bear the full force of the tragedy. The people who are not as well-off for whatever reason will then be far worse off in every possible way.

For the lower middle class it might mean having to abandon most of their lifestyle, but for the poor America becoming a third world nation will be a downright apocalypse. Millions of homeless housed in government camps throughout America, under strict government control.

The rats, ruthless exploiters and backstabbers, they will get ahead. The good people of America will SUFFER.

And the entire world economy will suffer. Millions all over the world would DIE if the US became a third world nation.

Surely your petty revenge on some Americans can't be worth all that misery.

The Good People of America taking back the country from the ruthless. A nation-wide epiphany of healthy economic, spiritual, social and environmental thinking and policy making. That's a far better America than a nation which is brought to its knees.


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