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afoaf
CEO DBK?



Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Re: Black Tuesday 2008 [Re: zorbman]
#7917544 - 01/22/08 09:54 PM (16 years, 10 days ago) |
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-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Black Tuesday 2008 [Re: afoaf]
#7917589 - 01/22/08 10:02 PM (16 years, 10 days ago) |
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Sounds great. I will believe it when I see it.
What we needed was a crash program 10-20 years ago with the funding and support of the federal government (since only an organization that size can provide the financial resources) on the scale of the Apollo Program or the Manhattan Project.
Unfortunately, mankind seems almost hard-wired towards short-term thinking. (I would be interested to see what Diploid says on that subject).
It does not look good. We are about to go through wrenching change.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Black Tuesday 2008 [Re: zappaisgod]
#7918954 - 01/23/08 07:20 AM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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Log in to view attachment
How about a fucking link?
I think this is the article he's talking about (attached). If not, someone tell me the issue it's in and I'll put it up.
I've only skimmed over it, but from what I've seen so far, it's wildly optimistic, particularly about the potential for solar energy.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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TheCow
Stranger

Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 4,790
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Re: Black Tuesday 2008 [Re: Diploid]
#7919358 - 01/23/08 10:47 AM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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I didnt read the article, but if what you find strange is the efficiency of modern solar cells, I can definitely back that up. Expect solar cells with efficiencies of 60+% in the not too distant future.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
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Re: Black Tuesday 2008 [Re: TheCow]
#7919540 - 01/23/08 11:49 AM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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> Expect solar cells with efficiencies of 60+% in the not too distant future.
The theoretical maximum efficiency possible, could all of the energy in the sunlight be turned into electricity by a solar cell, is 34%.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Black Tuesday 2008 [Re: TheCow]
#7919615 - 01/23/08 12:13 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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Here's what I find optimistic.
Full-on noon sunshine at the equator yields about a kilowatt per square meter.
Even if we somehow manage to invent hyper-efficient cells at 60% (current technology is only about 30% efficient), that's ~600 watts per square meter. Move from the equator to 45 degrees (northern US) and you end up with sin(45) * 600 ~= 420 watts per square meter on sunny days at noon. The power drops off rapidly as the sun moves away from noon.
The average US home consumes 10,000 kilowatt-hour per year* (27 kWh per day). So, solar can help, but it's definitely not the solution.
BTW, this next bit is off topic, but interesting:
In his documentary, the former Vice President calls on Americans to conserve energy by reducing electricity consumption at home.
The average household in America consumes 10,656 kilowatt-hours (kWh) per year, according to the Department of Energy. In 2006, Gore devoured nearly 221,000 kWh — more than 20 times the national average.
Last August alone, Gore burned through 22,619 kWh — guzzling more than twice the electricity in one month than an average American family uses in an entire year. As a result of his energy consumption, Gore’s average monthly electric bill topped $1,359.
Since the release of An Inconvenient Truth, Gore’s energy consumption has increased from an average of 16,200 kWh per month in 2005, to 18,400 kWh per month in 2006.
Gore’s extravagant energy use does not stop at his electric bill. Natural gas bills for Gore’s mansion and guest house averaged $1,080 per month last year.
chattanoogan.com
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
Edited by Diploid (01/23/08 01:10 PM)
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Arp
roving mycophagist


Registered: 04/20/98
Posts: 2,191
Loc: in a van by the river
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Re: Black Tuesday 2008 [Re: Diploid]
#7919703 - 01/23/08 12:39 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
The average household in America consumes 10,656 kilowatt-hours (kWh) per year
10656/365 = ~29.2 29.2*1000 = 29200W/day 29200W/24 = 1217W/hour
Goddamn! What are you guys living in? Mansions?
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Arp
roving mycophagist


Registered: 04/20/98
Posts: 2,191
Loc: in a van by the river
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Re: Black Tuesday 2008 [Re: Arp]
#7919728 - 01/23/08 12:43 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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Then again, hungry radiators and airconditioners need a lot of energy. Something I can do without.
I have managed to get my own power consumption down pretty good. Electricity is getting darn expensive now when they have unregulated the power market.
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TheCow
Stranger

Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 4,790
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Re: Black Tuesday 2008 [Re: Seuss]
#7919777 - 01/23/08 12:54 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > Expect solar cells with efficiencies of 60+% in the not too distant future.
The theoretical maximum efficiency possible, could all of the energy in the sunlight be turned into electricity by a solar cell, is 34%.
When people speak of efficiencies for solar cells they mean the power on the cell vs the power out for the most part. There is a theoretical maximum for a basic PN junction however. But an obvious adjustment someone figured out was to have a multi junction where you create different band gaps or traps in the bandgap. there are many variants on the design going on at the moment, including nanotubes, quantum dots etc..
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TheCow
Stranger

Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 4,790
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Re: Black Tuesday 2008 [Re: Diploid]
#7919781 - 01/23/08 12:55 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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Yea I agree with the limitations of solar cells. They should merely be used in conjunction with other technologies
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Black Tuesday 2008 [Re: Arp]
#7919812 - 01/23/08 01:06 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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Goddamn! What are you guys living in? Mansions?
10 kWh per year. That was a typo. Al Gore apparently lives in several mansions.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Arp
roving mycophagist


Registered: 04/20/98
Posts: 2,191
Loc: in a van by the river
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Re: Black Tuesday 2008 [Re: Diploid]
#7919838 - 01/23/08 01:13 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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I A chart I found.
I think norway is so high because of their oil=cheap eletricity.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Black Tuesday 2008 [Re: Arp]
#7919856 - 01/23/08 01:18 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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I wonder why China isn't on there.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Arp
roving mycophagist


Registered: 04/20/98
Posts: 2,191
Loc: in a van by the river
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Re: Black Tuesday 2008 [Re: Diploid]
#7919878 - 01/23/08 01:26 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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they're billions. would take too much time to count 
we should rig all the deserts with solar panels and wire them to a huge condensator. problem solved
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
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Re: Black Tuesday 2008 [Re: TheCow]
#7919932 - 01/23/08 01:43 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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> But an obvious adjustment someone figured out was to have a multi junction where you create different band gaps or traps in the bandgap.
Interesting... I haven't followed the field in a few years now.
> I wonder why China isn't on there.
Because they are not considered a developed country. India is missing for the same reason.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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trendal
J♠



Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Black Tuesday 2008 [Re: Arp]
#7920092 - 01/23/08 02:33 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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1217W/hour???
That's not very much...
The furnace fan at my mothers house is a 1.5kW motor, for example. Any type of electric heater is going to use over 1000W. The window A/C unit in front of me (a small one) uses 845W.
Turn on a few things in a house...and you'll be using more than 1200W/hour.
--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Black Tuesday 2008 [Re: trendal]
#7920326 - 01/23/08 03:44 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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A thread derailed into hell needs a strong hand to bring it back to its roots.
Quote:
The Dow Jones industrials fell more than 320 points in early trading, and closed almost 300 points higher.
http://finance.yahoo.com/
So much for Chicken Little.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Black Tuesday 2008 [Re: zappaisgod]
#7920389 - 01/23/08 04:06 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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Score one for the Commie.
How can I be a commie when no one is good enough to be in my tribe.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Black Tuesday 2008 [Re: Icelander]
#7920442 - 01/23/08 04:22 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Score one for the Commie.
How can I be a commie when no one is good enough to be in my tribe.
You're starting to sound like me
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DoctorRobert
Are YouExperienced?



Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 79
Loc: Boulder, Colorado
Last seen: 16 years, 6 days
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Re: Black Tuesday 2008 [Re: zappaisgod]
#7921318 - 01/23/08 07:21 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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Quite a magic trick today, or should I say, illusion?
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