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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: the infinite space [Re: JstHereFrTheCake]
    #7905756 - 01/20/08 01:13 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

numbers can lie as nicely as words
a little bit of skill is dangerous


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OfflineDrewwyann
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Re: the infinite space [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7905781 - 01/20/08 01:22 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

how is it even possible that space is finite?

even outside of the universe, how is it possible that there is nothing? Space is a thing, even if there is nothing within it. Therefore, there is something.

I can't wrap my head around the idea that it is a finite thing.

I definitely hypothesize that space is an ongoing infinite.


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OfflineJstHereFrTheCake
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Re: the infinite space [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7905801 - 01/20/08 01:25 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Completely.

I think a lot of people don't realize that you can make math say pretty much anything you want. Which is way string theory and all other theories that predict things like this are actually philosophies and not even scientific theories.

There is no way to test them and therefore there is no way according the the scientific method to formulate theories from them.


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OfflineJstHereFrTheCake
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Re: the infinite space [Re: Drewwyann]
    #7905819 - 01/20/08 01:30 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Drewwyann said:
how is it even possible that space is finite?

even outside of the universe, how is it possible that there is nothing? Space is a thing, even if there is nothing within it. Therefore, there is something.

I can't wrap my head around the idea that it is a finite thing.

I definitely hypothesize that space is an ongoing infinite.





Honestly I don't see how finite is harder to imagine than infinite. It may make things a little more complicated with spacial curving and such but you are much more familiar with finite than infinite which is something I think I can safely say you (and no one) have never truly experienced. Otherwise I would assume you would still be experiencing it. That seems a little like hell to me.


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OfflineDrewwyann
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Re: the infinite space [Re: JstHereFrTheCake]
    #7905865 - 01/20/08 01:42 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

I find it harder to imagine something just stops. :shrug:


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OfflineFarFromHere
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Re: the infinite space [Re: VisualLearner]
    #7906215 - 01/20/08 03:48 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

I see what your saying...

Infinite amounts of space.

Infinite amounts of probabilities...

So since space is endless, even things with low probabilities would happen.

Actually...EVERYTHING that was probable or possible WOULD happen!

Amazing!


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: the infinite space [Re: FarFromHere]
    #7906392 - 01/20/08 04:43 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

It doesnt "stop." There is not outside the universe, that's impossible by definition. I always figured if you went through one side of the universe, you would come out on the other side, but I'm probably way over-simplifying things.


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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: the infinite space [Re: g00ru]
    #7906474 - 01/20/08 05:01 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

I dont hink the idea of looping back is ridiculous, but i think we will ever be able to go fats enough to find the edge even if there is one.

i think about this stuff alot but try and comeup with my own thoughts onit as alot of the latest theories are really stabs in the dark (no pun intended)

im very interested in gravity and dark energy/matter and suns births and deaths as its these that create life in the first place, i admire them for theyre beuty and try not to question whats behind them because as far as we know all that exists is stars, planets, galaxys and forces, the rest is just speculation.


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Invisiblemonkeyheaven
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Re: the infinite space [Re: g00ru]
    #7906739 - 01/20/08 06:19 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
I always figured if you went through one side of the universe, you would come out on the other side, but I'm probably way over-simplifying things.




Just like Pacman!


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OfflineF1234K
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Re: the infinite space [Re: monkeyheaven]
    #7907764 - 01/20/08 10:33 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

you cant get to the edge tho. Its expands to fast.


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OfflineCubie
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Re: the infinite space [Re: monkeyheaven]
    #7907792 - 01/20/08 10:46 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

You know those pictures from equasions. I think the universe is like that.

And since the universe is expanding and accelerating it can't be going light speed if nothing can go faster then light.


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InvisibleEll Ess Bree
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Registered: 04/25/07
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Re: the infinite space [Re: Cubie]
    #7908547 - 01/21/08 05:46 AM (16 years, 11 days ago)

What if it's very possible for things to travel faster than light? What if it's a very natural and innate ability for even us as humans to do this, we just haven't discovered how yet?

No one "created" fire. Someone figured out how to use what they ALREADY had in a way they previously had not.

We've already got everything we need to do anything we want.


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OfflineCMACD
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Re: the infinite space [Re: Ell Ess Bree]
    #7908559 - 01/21/08 06:01 AM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Well this book I've read says that imagining the universe's expansion as galaxies moving farther away from each other in space is inaccurate.
Apparently, a more accurate way to think of it would be space itself actually expanding, and carrying the galaxies with it.

Somehow it's predicted that space is finite.


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Offlineundergrounder
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Re: the infinite space [Re: Ell Ess Bree]
    #7908583 - 01/21/08 07:07 AM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Ell Ess Bree said:
What if it's very possible for things to travel faster than light? What if it's a very natural and innate ability for even us as humans to do this, we just haven't discovered how yet?

No one "created" fire. Someone figured out how to use what they ALREADY had in a way they previously had not.

We've already got everything we need to do anything we want.




E = mc2 says that the Energy (E) required to propel a mass (m) at the speed of light (c) would itself need to be infinite. So its impossible.

Robert Greene's book and movie "The Elegant Universe" and Stephen Hawking's "A Brief History of Time" are both must haves if you're interested in these things.


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OfflineJstHereFrTheCake
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Re: the infinite space [Re: undergrounder]
    #7908858 - 01/21/08 09:30 AM (16 years, 11 days ago)

The edge expanding wouldn't keep you from getting to it because as you get closer you would be expanding closer and closer to it's actual rate. I.e the space is actually expanding, it's not some boundary line that is just moving away. so as you got closer to the edge you would start to move with the edge (as you already are, but I guess think of it like a loaf of bread baking up in the oven, the raisins or whatever near the center are going to move less distance than the ones by the edge as it rises). So reaching the edge is possible and looping is not ridiculous. Actually I am pretty sure that is the commonly excepted theory.

I think that you would at least get to the edge hit it and come right back out where you went in because of the curvature of space or you might actually jump clear to the other side. Think of reflections in a glass vase or something. Something convex.

Quote:

undergrounder said:

Robert Greene's book and movie "The Elegant Universe" and Stephen Hawking's "A Brief History of Time" are both must haves if you're interested in these things.






it's true, you can actually watch the whole "Elegant Universe" movie on the PBS website. It's really cool. I believe it is Brian Greene though for those who may look.


Edited by JstHereFrTheCake (01/21/08 09:32 AM)


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InvisibleEll Ess Bree
reppin state tostate, wat uneed?

Registered: 04/25/07
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Re: the infinite space [Re: undergrounder]
    #7909061 - 01/21/08 10:37 AM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

undergrounder said:
E = mc2 says that the Energy (E) required to propel a mass (m) at the speed of light (c) would itself need to be infinite. So its impossible.






I do not doubt this for a minute, brother.

You might want to read my first post in this thread over again?  That might help make sense of what I was getting at.  If not... I can help?

:crazy2::bigblunt:


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Invisiblemanyc
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Re: the infinite space [Re: Ell Ess Bree]
    #7912381 - 01/21/08 09:41 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

No one can say anything is impossible.

We know so little - but think we know so much.

We've simply created our own realm of measurement and scientific conclusion, based on our incredibly limited scope of.. everything.

There is most likely a feasible unlimited energy source.

Well... not feasible at this point in time, though.


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Offlineundergrounder
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Re: the infinite space [Re: Ell Ess Bree]
    #7913593 - 01/22/08 02:21 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Ell Ess Bree said:
I do not doubt this for a minute, brother.

You might want to read my first post in this thread over again?  That might help make sense of what I was getting at.  If not... I can help?

:crazy2::bigblunt:




I did read it again, but i don't think i'm high enough to understand it. Granted light, mass and energy are all constructs based on our current scientific knowledge, but we haven't yet faced a single anomoly that would prove that equation wrong. If there's something in the non-physical maths bit, can you explain that?

I'm not sure if this is what you were saying in that post, but if mathematics is true, and is a universal truth (which we don't have a single reason to doubt that it's not), then it will be true now, in a billion years, on Earth and in hyperspace. And everywhere and at every time, nothing can travel faster than light. There isn't enough energy in the entire universe to propel a single atom faster than the speed of light. Only light can travel like light, things with mass can't.

If we want to say that "we don't know the future, anything is possible", then we have to ignore the thousands of years of learning done in the past. And unless there's a very real reason for thinking that things might change (like the very nature of mathematics itself) then it's all just pure imagination and fantasy.


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Bigger and bolder and rougher and tougher in other words sucka there is no other...
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InvisibleGI_Luvmoney
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Re: the infinite space [Re: Drewwyann]
    #10630989 - 07/06/09 03:49 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Drewwyann said:
A topic I often think about while tripping.

If space is infinite, and infinite constitutes infinity. Doesn't that mean that there has to be a planet made of Will Smiths?

Infinity. No end. Something without an end has everything contained with in it.

The idea that space isn't infinite is even harder to grasp than the idea that space is infinite.

What are your thoughts on the matter?




If there are limits to space does that mean you can measure a velocity relative to a point in space and therefore an absolute velocity?


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InvisibleGI_Luvmoney
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Re: the infinite space [Re: GI_Luvmoney]
    #10630997 - 07/06/09 03:51 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

When they measured the velocity of the earth relative to the cosmic microwave background radiation (CMBR)is that an absolute velocity?  The CMBR is believed to be blackbody radiation left over from the big bang.


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