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OfflineDrewwyann
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the infinite space
    #7904190 - 01/20/08 12:17 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

A topic I often think about while tripping.

If space is infinite, and infinite constitutes infinity. Doesn't that mean that there has to be a planet made of Will Smiths?

Infinity. No end. Something without an end has everything contained with in it.

The idea that space isn't infinite is even harder to grasp than the idea that space is infinite.

What are your thoughts on the matter?


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Love powerfully :peace::heart::peace:


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OfflineCoaster
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Re: the infinite space [Re: Drewwyann]
    #7904206 - 01/20/08 12:23 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

no there isnt infinite possibilities of everything
just infinite nothingness


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Offlinedanlennon3
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Re: the infinite space [Re: Coaster]
    #7904224 - 01/20/08 12:31 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

space is finite, its out of our grasp, we cant see shit


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"Psychedelics should be used not to escape reality, but to embrace it"



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Offlinetoastandjam
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Re: the infinite space [Re: Drewwyann]
    #7904230 - 01/20/08 12:33 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

While modern physics probably isn't foremost in your mind while you're tripping, the universe is considered to be finite, though there's obviously the potential for it to be infinite.

What is the shape of the universe?

There's a lot of mapping of and research into the structure of the universe:



The Visible Universe within 14 billion Light Years

Maybe not infinite, but Will Smith might just be out there. Or maybe not. Or its just you living on a planet of all Will Smiths...


--------------------
Q: We wanted to see if you had the ability to expand your mind and your horizons... and for one brief moment, you did.
PICARD: When I realized the paradox...
Q: Exactly. For that one fraction of a second, you were open to options you'd never considered. That's the exploration that awaits you...not mapping stars and studying nebulae... but charting the unknowable possibilities of existence.

To carry yourself forward and experience myriad things is delusion. That myriad things come forth and experience themselves is awakening. -Dogen Zenji


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OfflineF1234K
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Re: the infinite space [Re: toastandjam]
    #7904272 - 01/20/08 12:45 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

The edge of space expands at the speed of light, so we will never get there.

Unless a monolith rips us from the third dimension perhaps :P


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Im Not Living, Im Just Killing Time


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InvisibleVisualLearner
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Registered: 01/11/08
Posts: 459
Re: the infinite space [Re: F1234K]
    #7904357 - 01/20/08 01:20 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

ever heard of the idea physicists have come up with called the multi-verse theory? It is just a theory at the moment but it says that our universe could quite possibly be one of many.:psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit::psychsplit:


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Edited by VisualLearner (01/20/08 02:33 AM)


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Offlinefazdazzle
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Re: the infinite space [Re: VisualLearner]
    #7904400 - 01/20/08 01:31 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

I've heard that before. There was an article which covered Scientific American when I was in high school talking about how there could be universes layered next to each other like the atoms in your ale.


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OfflineChurning
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Re: the infinite space [Re: fazdazzle]
    #7904460 - 01/20/08 01:51 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

that is an interesting idea, universes being the basic makeup of something bigger.....


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Offlineundergrounder
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Re: the infinite space [Re: Churning]
    #7904685 - 01/20/08 03:44 AM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Yeah an infinite universe does mean that there has to be a planet full of Will Smiths, as well as a planet full of Will Smiths and one Tom Cruise. And one with Will Smiths, one Tom Cruise and The High Lord Xenu. I think Tom Cruise calls that one heaven.

but anyway I think people underestimate the true infinite nature of infinity.

But i don't know if true infinity really exists does it? I mean if you continue walking West (and swimming a bit) then you will continue walking infinitely. But the space you walk on isn't infinite, since you end up walking around the world and coming back to the beginning. Maybe the spacetime fabric breaks down at a certain point at the end of the universe or something.


--------------------
:igor: RIP :igor:

Bigger and bolder and rougher and tougher in other words sucka there is no other...
:pinkshroom: :supershroom: :mushroom2: :shroomer: :mushroom2: :supershroom: :pinkshroom:


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Invisiblemonkeyheaven
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Re: the infinite space [Re: undergrounder]
    #7904730 - 01/20/08 05:00 AM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

undergrounder said:
Yeah an infinite universe does mean that there has to be a planet full of Will Smiths, as well as a planet full of Will Smiths and one Tom Cruise. And one with Will Smiths, one Tom Cruise and The High Lord Xenu. I think Tom Cruise calls that one heaven.

but anyway I think people underestimate the true infinite nature of infinity.

But i don't know if true infinity really exists does it? I mean if you continue walking West (and swimming a bit) then you will continue walking infinitely. But the space you walk on isn't infinite, since you end up walking around the world and coming back to the beginning. Maybe the spacetime fabric breaks down at a certain point at the end of the universe or something.




I think infinity is a concept that is useful to consider in many situations, even if it doesn't exist. It's like time, euclidian geometry, or mapping a coastline.

I also like the symbol for infinity, the elongated sideways eight, it represents how you can run around in circles forever and never really reach a destination. In reality, you'd eventually get bored or hungry and walk away, but if you could keep it up, you could run around in circles forever, infinity even. It's also not linear, which is key.

Did someone say the universe is expanding faster than the speed of light or something like that? That's pretty cool. To me, if something can happen faster than the speed of light, it should get honorary infinity status.


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OfflineMindGorilla
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Re: the infinite space [Re: undergrounder]
    #7904737 - 01/20/08 05:05 AM (16 years, 12 days ago)

I find it ironic that the universe is expanding at the speed of light, and none quite know what happens when something reaches that kind of speed.

I've actually seen a few things on the discovery channel that talk about the idea of infinity.



The theory was basically anything that could happen, is happening, simultaneously at every moment. And yes there is a infinite amount of everything inside our universe, but there is never two things that are quite the same.


For example: I walk into a casino and bet all my money on black. I'm in another universe betting all of my money on red at the same time. Only one will win, and that goes for every possibility everywhere.



Bullshit right?


You have to take into account the size of the universe, and the fact that it never stops growing.


14 billion years is only a number, but in reality, those kinds of distances is more then we can even come close to understanding. There is a ridiculous amount of everything inside 14 billion light years.

Billion. Light years. Think about it.The universe is infinite, and is still growing.


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Invisiblemanyc
♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫


Registered: 01/03/04
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Re: the infinite space [Re: Drewwyann]
    #7904815 - 01/20/08 06:50 AM (16 years, 12 days ago)

I've had the idea many times that the universe is just one big single-celled organism, with all kinds of parts within it that make it what it is.

And there are an infinite amount of universes, all sitting side by side on a never-ending plane of constant destruction and creation, on which all of their connected energies influence one another in a giant scale of balance.

But this plane of universes, is just the miniscule makings of another bigger picture. And the entirety of existence & awareness is spread throughout this infinite dimensional layer cake.

And it goes on and on.



Maybe.


--------------------

Hemp could Save the World.

"There is no flag that is large enough, to hide the shame of a man in cuffs." -Serj Tankian


:mushroomgrow:Know Thyself.:mushroomgrow:

"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
-Terence Mckenna


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InvisibleEll Ess Bree
reppin state tostate, wat uneed?

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 914
Re: the infinite space [Re: manyc]
    #7904935 - 01/20/08 08:21 AM (16 years, 12 days ago)

I couldn't read all of these replies, so if someone said what I'm about to say, I'm sorry.

SCIENCE  AND  MATH.

If you want to know what is and isn't there, becoming a constant observer of the science and math that makes shit work around you is key.  Not just physical math.  You're going to have to work with some non-physical.

Non-physical science and non-physical math.

THE INTERESTING PART!

Non-physical can't touch physical, and physical can't touch non-physical for very obvious reasons.  But boy, YOU BETTER BELIEVE non-physical math is the same as and can work right on through physical math and vice-versa.

Yageman said, much more vaguely, in another post, you can use it to predict the future.  He may have called the science and math something else.  He's a funny science guy, he is.

You can also use it to predict the shape of the universe.  While using it you will find very easily that the universe is indeed quite infinite, and on a scale even grander than we could have imagined.

IT IS ALL IN THE SIMPLE MATH, BROTHERS.

It is not beyond you.  YOU ARE IN IT, YOU ARE A PART OF IT, AND AT THE SAME TIME, THE WHOLE OF IT.

It takes a lot of reading, a couple years observation.

Some of us are going to have to fucking do this.

Someone had to get in the fucking boats and sail around the world to find out you wouldn't fall off.

Some of us are sooner or later going to get into our fucking mind-boats and sail and sail and sail until we realize we're never going to reach the end, and we're never going to find the white-bearded man responsible for all of this.

Infinite-chaotic-endlessly-running mathematics are the white bearded man. 

Yageman said God wants you to like math and science.

GOD IS MATH AND SCIENCE.

You know how to fucking use math and science don't you?

You know how to learn, if you don't, don't you?

I'm sorry this rant is so long.

IT IS IN THE MATH AND IT IS IN THE SCIENCE, BROTHERS.  OBSERVE AND EXTRAPOLATE.  YOU WILL SEE THE SHAPE OF THE UNIVERSE, YOU WILL FIND THE MACHINES OF CONSCIOUSNESS, AND YOU WILL BE AMAZED. 

Unless you want to kill yourself when you see it, and... well I don't blame you for that!  :grin:

I'm done for now!

EVERYBODY SMOKE WEED!  :gethigh:


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Offlineclemens
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Re: the infinite space [Re: Ell Ess Bree]
    #7904947 - 01/20/08 08:28 AM (16 years, 12 days ago)

There is no will smith planet. Infinite just means we can't measure it.
This is a interesting video on the matter. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU1fixMAObI


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Take it easy dude, but take it!


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Offlinebudsmoke
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Re: the infinite space [Re: clemens]
    #7905261 - 01/20/08 10:29 AM (16 years, 12 days ago)

According to the big bang theory the universe isn't infinite, but it is constantly expanding. Eventually the universe will stop expanding. Currently in empty space the temp is 2.7 degrees kelvin. We will no space has stopped expanding once it reaches 0 degrees kelvin. At this point there are several theories as to what will happen. One is that gravity will grow so large that all the energy will group together again like in the beginning of the big bang, and then it will explode again. Wala new universe. There are a couple more theories about what will happen after the universe finishes expanding but the most commonly accepted is the one I stated.


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Offlinetoastandjam
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Re: the infinite space [Re: budsmoke]
    #7905298 - 01/20/08 10:38 AM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

budsmoke said:
According to the big bang theory the universe isn't infinite, but it is constantly expanding. Eventually the universe will stop expanding. Currently in empty space the temp is 2.7 degrees kelvin. We will no space has stopped expanding once it reaches 0 degrees kelvin. At this point there are several theories as to what will happen. One is that gravity will grow so large that all the energy will group together again like in the beginning of the big bang, and then it will explode again. Wala new universe. There are a couple more theories about what will happen after the universe finishes expanding but the most commonly accepted is the one I stated.




The universe is expanding and the rate of expansion is increasing. There is no consensus or clear information that points to the expansion stopping. As of today, the measured balance of matter in the universe (gravitational forces) compared against the force of the cosmological constant (expansive forces) makes it appear that expansion will go on forever unless there is a force or effect to the contrary. Also, when we talk about expansion, its the actual creation of new space and the expansion carries things further apart. If this is the case, the matter\energy of the universe will not recongregate in any way. Your statement is not the most commonly accepted theory.


--------------------
Q: We wanted to see if you had the ability to expand your mind and your horizons... and for one brief moment, you did.
PICARD: When I realized the paradox...
Q: Exactly. For that one fraction of a second, you were open to options you'd never considered. That's the exploration that awaits you...not mapping stars and studying nebulae... but charting the unknowable possibilities of existence.

To carry yourself forward and experience myriad things is delusion. That myriad things come forth and experience themselves is awakening. -Dogen Zenji


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InvisibleVisualLearner
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Registered: 01/11/08
Posts: 459
Re: the infinite space [Re: toastandjam]
    #7905352 - 01/20/08 11:00 AM (16 years, 12 days ago)

not sure if anyone read my reply but the multi-universe theory has yet to still be proven wrong. It is likely that yes our universe is expanding but it is one of billions. So the question is how many universes are there and how big are they not just ours alone, bigger scale if you get where i am going. Just watched it....heres a link...
:mushroom2:


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Offlineundergrounder
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Re: the infinite space [Re: VisualLearner]
    #7905477 - 01/20/08 11:38 AM (16 years, 12 days ago)

If the universe is expanding, then what is it expanding into?

Quote:

VisualLearner said:
not sure if anyone read my reply but the multi-universe theory has yet to still be proven wrong.




It's also yet to be proven wrong that there is a giant pink elephant flying around and hiding behind jupiter. Does that mean that there is a giant pink elephant hiding behind jupiter? That doesn't mean its a cool thought though.


--------------------
:igor: RIP :igor:

Bigger and bolder and rougher and tougher in other words sucka there is no other...
:pinkshroom: :supershroom: :mushroom2: :shroomer: :mushroom2: :supershroom: :pinkshroom:


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InvisibleVisualLearner
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Re: the infinite space [Re: undergrounder]
    #7905527 - 01/20/08 12:00 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

OK dude, well if you want to discredit my reply go ahead and watch the video I posted and it will explain more for you since you don't understand how theory's work.


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OfflineJstHereFrTheCake
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Re: the infinite space [Re: VisualLearner]
    #7905691 - 01/20/08 12:56 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

I can't believe no one has mentioned string theory yet, I mean it touches on all this stuff and is currently like the hottest thing in physics. Anyway I am nt gonna explain it since I can't claim to get it but read about it cause it's pretty interesting stuff. There is a great video by Brian Green too.

Anyway, Visuallearner, what undergrounder is saying is that none of this can be disproven because there is no way to test it. Plus the idea of multiple universes is not new or groundbreaking, quantum physics tells us that the best we can do at the quantum level is predict (albeit very very accurately) the possibility of something happening. That is what gave rise to the whole multiuniverse thing as far as I know any way.

Really no one has any clue whats going on, the big bang is just a theory but it seems kinda likely.

Scientist are pretty sure the universe is actually finite, and just because the universe is expanding doesn't mean there is any more in it. It's all just getting further apart.

String theory has a lot to do with dimensions, like up, down, left right sorta dimensions. It predicts 10 or 11 dimensions, the 3 we know, 6 or so dimnesions curled up inside these ones and then time.

The way I like to think about it, which may or may not be correct according to the theory, is that the dimensions are layered and that our three dimensional universe sits in a universe that has more dimensions, just like a 2d image sits in our three dimensional world (technically not really but bare with me) and that there are probably other three dimensional universe sitting near us or around us in this larger area but we are like characters on a page and we can't get off to go to them. We can only move in three dimensions and are subject to movement in a fourth (time) however it isn't clear whether we can control our movement through time.

I think with this info combined with the theory of relativity which everyone should probably know says (among many other things) basically the faster you go the more time slows down for you, and if you reach the speed of light time would stop all together. Well to me that seems to say that we can move through time in at least one direction and that the faster we move through our three dimensional universe the faster we move through that forth dimension. However since there is no way to move at a negative speed through our universe there is no way to go back in time.


All ideas. None of them true probably, or at least none of them wholly true I can always hope I got like .000001 % of it right. I think I might actually be able to comprehend that much truth about the nature of the universe, hopefully more but who knows...


Edited by JstHereFrTheCake (01/20/08 01:00 PM)


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