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OfflineLuNaTiX
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Everyone
    #7902605 - 01/19/08 05:20 PM (16 years, 13 days ago)

if everyone cared more about the people around them then them selves, this would be a better world.


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Offlinestraasha
Grandfaloon


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Re: Everyone [Re: LuNaTiX]
    #7902619 - 01/19/08 05:23 PM (16 years, 13 days ago)

What?


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Invisibleelbisivni

Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
Re: Everyone [Re: LuNaTiX]
    #7902635 - 01/19/08 05:28 PM (16 years, 13 days ago)

if nobody flushed their toilets, septic tanks would be cleaner.


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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everyone [Re: LuNaTiX]
    #7905715 - 01/20/08 01:02 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

LuNaTiX said:
if everyone cared more about the people around them then them selves, this would be a better world.




This is an ugly false statement IMO. It reeks of self loathing and is impossible to boot. How many times do we have to address this non-sense?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Everyone [Re: Icelander]
    #7906172 - 01/20/08 03:37 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Why does that reek of self loathing?.. sorry, you are projecting like you so often point out other people doing when they call you cynical

lunatix is right by the way, obviously this world would be better if we all looked out for each other rather than our immediate self satisfaction

"ask not what humanity can do for you, but what you can do for humanity"

unlike what icelander usually declares, that he is a lone warrior and we should all be lone warriors who are strong on our own, humans are social animals and we all have a role to play. humanity is like a hand and we are all fingers on that hand inseparable from it. if one finger becomes detached, the whole hand suffers. this is why people frown on suicide, because it harms all of humanity.

now you might say "good, if he was stupid or useless enough to commit suicide, he has cleaned up the gene pool a little". what you aren't taking into account is how much sorrow he has brought on the people who loved him and how much love he will never be able to share with the world.


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Offlinevigilant_mind
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Re: Everyone [Re: LuNaTiX] * 1
    #7906185 - 01/20/08 03:40 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Not at all. You have to care about yourself first in order to care about others. And not to mention the fact that merely "caring more" would probably not provide enough incentive for people to get off their lazy asses and change the world.


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Everyone [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #7906198 - 01/20/08 03:43 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

i think by caring more he implies carrying more, taking action to do what you can to help other people. i agree that we have to take care of ourselves, but some people are just plain selfish.


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OfflineWordlessNature
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7906471 - 01/20/08 05:01 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

I would advise against value in this sort of argument. In other words, avoid looking at the problem in terms of "more" or "less"; it is not a matter of caring more for others or for yourself.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7906556 - 01/20/08 05:24 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
Why does that reek of self loathing?.. sorry, you are projecting like you so often point out other people doing when they call you cynical

lunatix is right by the way, obviously this world would be better if we all looked out for each other rather than our immediate self satisfaction

"ask not what humanity can do for you, but what you can do for humanity"

unlike what icelander usually declares, that he is a lone warrior and we should all be lone warriors who are strong on our own, humans are social animals and we all have a role to play. humanity is like a hand and we are all fingers on that hand inseparable from it. if one finger becomes detached, the whole hand suffers. this is why people frown on suicide, because it harms all of humanity.

now you might say "good, if he was stupid or useless enough to commit suicide, he has cleaned up the gene pool a little". what you aren't taking into account is how much sorrow he has brought on the people who loved him and how much love he will never be able to share with the world. 




:rofl2::monkeydance:

Please. The world would in no way be better off if people looked out for others before themselves.

But besides that it's impossible and this conversation is moldy I've had it so many times. We are all self-serving animals. We cannot be otherwise and even if you help another it's always because we think it is right, good, better, whatever. We value the action for ourselves.

unlike what icelander usually declares, that he is a lone warrior and we should all be lone warriors who are strong on our own, humans are social animals and we all have a role to play. humanity is like a hand and we are all fingers on that hand inseparable from it. if one finger becomes detached, the whole hand suffers. this is why people frown on suicide, because it harms all of humanity.

Please before you put words into another's mouth have a small clue about what you are talking about. The above is not "icelanders" philosophy and you are ignorant to think it. The rest of the statement has no bearing on the value of putting others before oneself. One can easily be self serving and still do for others and put value on being connected with others.

I can't believe what you say about suicide. We, each of us decide how to feel about anything and no action of another that doesn't hurt our physical body can make us feel anything unless we choose it. If that was true then each of us would feel the same about anything that anyone did.

So if someone kills themselves because they are in unbearable pain then that somehow hurts society. :crazy2: IMO that belief is just ugly and selfish and it doesn't surprise me that you would hold it.:thumbdown:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBoots
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Re: Everyone [Re: Icelander]
    #7906644 - 01/20/08 05:51 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Bullshit. People worrying about other people is why the world is in such a state.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everyone [Re: Boots]
    #7906659 - 01/20/08 05:54 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

I would be nice to know exactly what you are saying here.:confused:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinestraasha
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7906726 - 01/20/08 06:16 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Mod edit: No flaming in this forum. If you do it again, you will be banned.


Edited by Diploid (01/20/08 09:25 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everyone [Re: straasha]
    #7906970 - 01/20/08 07:11 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

i'm dunk.


Do you mean to say "I'm dumb" or "I'm dick"?:confused:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (01/20/08 07:11 PM)


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Everyone [Re: Icelander]
    #7907135 - 01/20/08 08:10 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

i'm sorry that i disgusted and surprised you, icelander. all my debating here will now be based off the bible. the bible is truth. deal with it.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7907189 - 01/20/08 08:27 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

The bible is truth?
On which evidence do you base this statement of yours? :strokebeard:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineLove Cap
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7907199 - 01/20/08 08:30 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

seriously? the bible?

and icelander, aren't you one to make sure the rules are followed? no calling names here. :grin:

eternalcowabunga; i am curious to know what you think our role here might be? because i somewhat agree. We are the only animals on the planet that have this complex of a mind, and the ability to create technology. For the most part, we've used this ability to make ourselves more comfortable. but what have we really done so far? right now we're just a bunch of slightly advanced apes that have made a bunch of junk and right now we're choking out the earth! doesn't it seem like we should be doing something more productive with our consciousness?


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Everyone [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7907209 - 01/20/08 08:32 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Because god and the devil compete with my mind on the television and through songs when I read the Bible. So far, God is winning. He made sure I watched The Matrix tonight to really understand what I was getting myself into


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7907222 - 01/20/08 08:36 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

eternalcowabunga; i am curious to know what you think our role here might be?




I think we are suppose to dream up a better tomorrow and try and create that reality rather than simply give in to all our desires and base unconscious animal drives; to leave a good world for the next generation rather than destroy the Earth. I refuse to believe that we are destined to destroy ourselves because we simply "don't have it in us" to make a plan and stick with it rather than numb our minds.


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OfflineLove Cap
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7907228 - 01/20/08 08:37 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

the television isn't the devil; it's big brother trying to control you... no need to be scared of hell though!


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OfflineLove Cap
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Re: Everyone [Re: Love Cap]
    #7907232 - 01/20/08 08:38 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

i agree with you completely. now how do we get this message out more?


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7907233 - 01/20/08 08:38 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

So you switched from the messianic complex to the apostle complex? :grin:
Make no mistake, you're free to believe whatever floats your boat, but when you post in a forum like this one, your beliefs stand out for nothing.
God has shown you the Matrix? God is winning? All of these sounds like personal issues to me.
As a side note, would you kill for your god if he made it clear for you that he wants that? :strokebeard:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Everyone [Re: Love Cap]
    #7907243 - 01/20/08 08:41 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

i think having media literacy is the key. i haven't watched TV in a long time, but tonight I watched it. I really payed attention to each message of each commercial, it seems a lot of commercials are selling mindlessness and then some commercials are almost provoking you into taking some kind of positive action (commercials that end with a black screen and white letters "Think About It." or "Take Responsibility")

heaven and hell to me = slavery or freedom, hell is the dominator/dominated; those who control and those who allow themselves to be controlled.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7907250 - 01/20/08 08:43 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

I think we are suppose to dream up a better tomorrow and try and create that reality rather than simply give in to all our desires and base unconscious animal drives; to leave a good world for the next generation rather than destroy the Earth. I refuse to believe that we are destined to destroy ourselves because we simply "don't have it in us" to make a plan and stick with it rather than numb our minds.




ALL of this is fear based.
I refuse to do anything for the future generation, earth, or anything/anybody else, because I "have" to.
We're not destined to destroy ourselves, we're not destined to make things better, we're are NOT destined to anything.
If you have any prove to sustain that we do, by all means please share with us.
And "because I feel so will NOT" work.
Others "feel" that they have to burn children, rape women pr throw the atomic bomb for a better future.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Everyone [Re: Love Cap]
    #7907254 - 01/20/08 08:44 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Love Cap said:
i agree with you completely. now how do we get this message out more?




all we can do is try and find other people who are seeking out some kind of truth, any truth - you can usually spot these people out by the kind of ideas they like to discuss (really, anyone who discusses ideas rather than things and people)


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OfflineLove Cap
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7907256 - 01/20/08 08:44 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

i think the only hell is here on earth, if you look at it that way. but when it comes to spreading consciousness; i think the internet and what we do on here is a HUGE open door! it's like all the things we bring up here... is just floating around in 'internet space' for anyone to see and respond too...


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7907259 - 01/20/08 08:45 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

I've found that looking after your own interests is a better way to help the people you love than caring about them too much. I care about others too much; I often find myself taking their opinions more seriously than my own, or becoming depressed when I can't meet their needs as I perceive them.

The trick is to make yourself strong without forgetting that you must give back to people who need it. That is often forgotten along the way.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7907261 - 01/20/08 08:45 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
this is why people frown on suicide, because it harms all of humanity.




If suicide harms all of humanity, than suicide exists as an opportunity for humanity to learn to stop harming itself. People frown on suicide because it is an external pattern that they themselves associate with a negative experience. To frown on the suicide of another is to blame reality for the suffering that one inflicts upon itself.

The fact is, there is suffering on this planet, and sometimes it can, for whatever path arises, be manifested in an individual to the point that they have found no way to alleviate that suffering. The truth is, some people suffer to the point that the alleviation of suffering is more important than to live, because why live if one can find no way to alleviate suffering?

Is it tragic? Yes. Is it preventable? Yes, but there is a point of no return, and some people get past that point because of the way reality unfolds. Suffering exists because individuals are oblivious to the suffering that exists on this planet, suffering exists because individuals are oblivious to the suffering that they unknowingly inflict.

People feel harmed by suicide because they themselves are forced to become conscious of the suffering in the world around them, and it is not preferable for them because then they suffer as well. To "frown" upon suicide is a human being's way of avoiding taking responsibility for their own experience by blaming and passing judgement on another individual who simply cannot bear the suffering of existence.

These people unknowingly hold a viewpoint that it is more preferable that those who commit suicide exist in a state of intense physical and mental suffering because they themselves do not wish to be conscious of the existence of suffering. Of course, be fully aware that the first step towards the alleviation of all suffering is to realize that it exists. From there, people will begin to realize why it exists, and will act from within a perspective that respects this and seeks to alleviate suffering by not creating it, for themselves, and, subsequently, others.

:craven:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7907262 - 01/20/08 08:45 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

heaven and hell to me = slavery or freedom, hell is the dominator/dominated; those who control and those who allow themselves to be controlled.




And a good christian imposing his will about what others should do, to others, couldn't be called slavery?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Everyone [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7907268 - 01/20/08 08:46 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

I think we are suppose to dream up a better tomorrow and try and create that reality rather than simply give in to all our desires and base unconscious animal drives; to leave a good world for the next generation rather than destroy the Earth. I refuse to believe that we are destined to destroy ourselves because we simply "don't have it in us" to make a plan and stick with it rather than numb our minds.




ALL of this is fear based.
I refuse to do anything for the future generation, earth, or anything/anybody else, because I "have" to.
We're not destined to destroy ourselves, we're not destined to make things better, we're are NOT destined to anything.
If you have any prove to sustain that we do, by all means please share with us.
And "because I feel so will NOT" work.
Others "feel" that they have to burn children, rape women pr throw the atomic bomb for a better future.




You don't have to do anything, but I think you just admitted that you are capable so in that sense you share some of the responsibility. There is no reward or punishment, other than the possible reality we are creating for All That Is in the future, which is a part of you and me


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Everyone [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7907274 - 01/20/08 08:47 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

heaven and hell to me = slavery or freedom, hell is the dominator/dominated; those who control and those who allow themselves to be controlled.




And a good christian imposing his will about what others should do, to others, couldn't be called slavery?




I haven't heard of a Christian forcefully imposing his beliefs on anyone for a hundred years, at least. I've gotten the whole "convert and be saved by Jesus" lecture shitloads of times, but when I tell them I respect their beliefs but that they're not for me they generally respect my decision as well. They can believe I'm going to hell if they like, I don't care.

Has it been different for you?


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



Edited by Tchan909 (01/20/08 08:48 PM)


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7907287 - 01/20/08 08:50 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

You can still love someone who commits suicide Fireworks, you don't have to judge them. The person going through pain can be strong, and they can be a shining light for those around them. They have this responsibility to themselves and the world around them to alleviate suffering. It's like how we should be happy that we are abundant in wealth and food but the poor should be happy too and not murder us just because we have it better.


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Everyone [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7907294 - 01/20/08 08:53 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

heaven and hell to me = slavery or freedom, hell is the dominator/dominated; those who control and those who allow themselves to be controlled.




And a good christian imposing his will about what others should do, to others, couldn't be called slavery?




Anyone with an ego is going to impose their will, people of all creed do this is ways they think will outcome negatively and positively. We don't know whether the outcome will be good or bad in the future - I'm sure nature has a few laws that could guide us though such as the "give back what you take" rule I read about in Ishmael. The dominator-dominated loop only comes into effect when society is set up to divide rather than equalize, as money does.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Everyone [Re: Icelander]
    #7907296 - 01/20/08 08:53 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Please before you put words into another's mouth have a small clue about what you are talking about. The above is not "icelanders" philosophy and you are ignorant to think it




Exactly, the inherent failure in making a personalism in a philosophical discussion. Its an appeal that is unsubstantiated, "unlike icelander usually declares", and it is a failure of the poster to adequately express their point of view, for one reason or another. Its either to judge something that is not explicity expressed, because most think they can get away with it.

Quote:


IMO that belief is just ugly and selfish and it doesn't surprise me that you would hold it. :thumbdown:




Now now, if it doesn't surprise you that someone would hold such a perspective, then one has an understanding of where another person is coming from. Then, one must ask if one wishes to leave that being in that state by judging them and dismissing their nature to exist as such, compounding the matter through the negative connotations of judgement, or realize a more effective way of leading them forward, through subtle interaction? You can't force someone to be another way than they are, but you can certainly give them what they need to move on... If nothing else, it makes reality more preferable for one's own self, since it changes to live in accordance with you. :wink:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineLove Cap
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Re: Everyone [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7907297 - 01/20/08 08:54 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

dude, i've had one guy sending me things through e-mail telling me to get saved or go to hell. it was the first in long, long time! i was very shocked! i've been debating with him back and forth through e-mail for a couple weeks now. haha!
but you can't disregard someone's opinions because of thier belief system... just because i don't think christians have it completely right about everything, doesn't mean an individual who is a christian doesn't have good ideas!


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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7907302 - 01/20/08 08:54 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
Why does that reek of self loathing?.. sorry, you are projecting like you so often point out other people doing when they call you cynical

lunatix is right by the way, obviously this world would be better if we all looked out for each other rather than our immediate self satisfaction

"ask not what humanity can do for you, but what you can do for humanity"

unlike what icelander usually declares, that he is a lone warrior and we should all be lone warriors who are strong on our own, humans are social animals and we all have a role to play. humanity is like a hand and we are all fingers on that hand inseparable from it. if one finger becomes detached, the whole hand suffers. this is why people frown on suicide, because it harms all of humanity.

now you might say "good, if he was stupid or useless enough to commit suicide, he has cleaned up the gene pool a little". what you aren't taking into account is how much sorrow he has brought on the people who loved him and how much love he will never be able to share with the world. 


:thumbup:
Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
Why does that reek of self loathing?.. sorry, you are projecting like you so often point out other people doing when they call you cynical

lunatix is right by the way, obviously this world would be better if we all looked out for each other rather than our immediate self satisfaction

"ask not what humanity can do for you, but what you can do for humanity"

unlike what icelander usually declares, that he is a lone warrior and we should all be lone warriors who are strong on our own, humans are social animals and we all have a role to play. humanity is like a hand and we are all fingers on that hand inseparable from it. if one finger becomes detached, the whole hand suffers. this is why people frown on suicide, because it harms all of humanity.

now you might say "good, if he was stupid or useless enough to commit suicide, he has cleaned up the gene pool a little". what you aren't taking into account is how much sorrow he has brought on the people who loved him and how much love he will never be able to share with the world. 




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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7907308 - 01/20/08 08:55 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

You don't have to do anything, but I think you just admitted that you are capable so in that sense you share some of the responsibility. There is no reward or punishment, other than the possible reality we are creating for All That Is in the future, which is a part of you and me




I take responsibly for each of my action. Taking to account this responsibly, I don't consider that I have to save the earth or make a better tomorrow. This is all Will based.
The fact that, incidentally, my will is to help in the measure I want to, the fact that I love life and it makes me feel good when I see people happy instead of sad and that sometimes I like to contribute to all that, doesn't mean that it's my responsibility to do so.
It also doesn't mean that there's a higher moral I have to respond to.
And it also means that, when and if I will like doing so, I might directly HARM someone, without feeling any doubt or guilt about my actions.

No heave or hell?
What are you doing? Are you taking from the bible only what's convenient to you? :strokebeard:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Re: Everyone [Re: Love Cap]
    #7907310 - 01/20/08 08:56 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Exactly... we all run at different speeds, and general condemnation of the followers of all those lovely desert religions is childish. Sometimes dealing with them can be frustrating, but they're not exactly a threat to your well-being.

Besides, rejecting an entire religion because a portion of its followers are assholes is no better than hating black people because a black guy beat you up once.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7907312 - 01/20/08 08:57 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

We have pretty good technology that can tell us somewhat about our future; for instance, if we don't start conserving our natural resources, we're going to be completely out by year 2050.


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Re: Everyone [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7907327 - 01/20/08 09:00 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

heaven and hell to me = slavery or freedom, hell is the dominator/dominated; those who control and those who allow themselves to be controlled.




And a good christian imposing his will about what others should do, to others, couldn't be called slavery?




I haven't heard of a Christian forcefully imposing his beliefs on anyone for a hundred years, at least. I've gotten the whole "convert and be saved by Jesus" lecture shitloads of times, but when I tell them I respect their beliefs but that they're not for me they generally respect my decision as well. They can believe I'm going to hell if they like, I don't care.

Has it been different for you?




Are you living on a planet different than earth?
Are you not living in a society where you have to respect some moral/social norms, ALL of these being funded upon the Christian moral?
Am I missing something? :crazy:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Re: Everyone [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7907338 - 01/20/08 09:02 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

No, I interpret the bible my own way, the way it relates to cosmic consciousness and the messiah syndrome. When in the messiah syndrome, one can see that civilization is headed down the wrong path and can see that it is in their power to do something about it, which makes it their responsibility. I know you know what I'm talking about because I know you've understood these things at least in the past. I tried to do things for humanity even when I personally suffered or felt uncomfortable.

Is it not sort of infantile to never sacrifice some comfort for the greater good because you just don't want to? Are we reaching our highest potential by staying in our comfort zone, or is nature not telling us that we are going to have to get uncomfortable or it will make us uncomfortable for us..

By the way I live in Canada where Christianity is not entangled with the government, so I don't have this kind of gut level reaction against any kind of Christian belief. I think there's some good messages in the Bible, and a lot of messed up stuff called Christianity in the States which is scary to me like the movie Jesus Camp.


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Re: Everyone [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7907352 - 01/20/08 09:04 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Are you not living in a society where you have to respect some moral/social norms, ALL of these being funded upon the Christian moral?
Am I missing something? :crazy:




Might I ask what planet YOU are living on?

Granted, Christians are trying pretty damn hard to force their beliefs into legislation at the moment, but I don't believe they will succeed in the long term. Compare these efforts to the religious violence perpetrated by Christians (among others) in the past and you will see they are tame as pussycats nowadays, and will only become more so. Our society is rapidly moving away from Christianity and towards more secular moral ideals as the culture grows increasingly diverse. Evangelicals can throw all the hissy-fits they like, there's not much they can do about it. They're on the way out.


Edited by Tchan909 (01/20/08 09:09 PM)


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Re: Everyone [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7907383 - 01/20/08 09:10 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Are you not living in a society where you have to respect some moral/social norms, ALL of these being funded upon the Christian moral?
Am I missing something? :crazy:




Might I ask what planet YOU are living on?

Granted, Christians are trying pretty damn hard to force their beliefs into legislation at the moment, but I don't believe they will succeed in the long term. Compare these efforts to the religious violence perpetrated by Christians (among others) in the past and you will see they are tame as pussycats nowadays, and will only become more so.




ARGUMENT TO THE FUTURE in a logical fallacy.
Please stick and discuss the present, to which you yourself admitted that Christians have a word to say.
I'll say that it's more than a word. :hehehe:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7907384 - 01/20/08 09:10 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
i think having media literacy is the key.




The mainstream media deliberately manipulates the release of information in favor of its corporate interests. This is well-documented fact now thanks to the Ron Paul campaign. As someone who has communicated with the New York Times regarding this, it is abundantly clear. Do not trust anything you hear through a news source other than verified Internet sources, as the mainstream media has repeatedly been documented from deliberately lying, to setting up knowingly baseless metrics for determining how they will convey information and which information they will not.

Quote:


I really payed attention to each message of each commercial, it seems a lot of commercials are selling mindlessness and then some commercials are almost provoking you into taking some kind of positive action (commercials that end with a black screen and white letters "Think About It." or "Take Responsibility")




Everyone is trying to sell you something. You make a conscious decision what you are going to buy, no matter if it is truth or manipulative pandering. It is no surprise that it would be in the special interests of some to get you to willingly engage in a less than symbiotic relationship that will harm you. Yet, clearly you are getting what you need from doing so, so if you buy it, then it is your responsibility; it is what you want.

Quote:


heaven and hell to me = slavery or freedom, hell is the dominator/dominated; those who control and those who allow themselves to be controlled.




Every individual is their own heaven and hell is what you are saying, correct? I agree, as everyone chooses their relationship with reality. Control is a partial truth. What is actually happening is :yinyang:. That which controls is controlled by that which is "controlled". If you put a leash around a man's neck, you only control them if you hold onto the leash. The leash controls you.


--------------------
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Re: Everyone [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7907393 - 01/20/08 09:11 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Well, sorry not absolutely everything I say in my posts is logically and argumentatively airtight. I was trying to have a discussion, not a debate. Besides, convince me Christians are growing in numbers and strength.

Besides, your attack on my logical fallacy sidestepped my very valid point that modern Christians are pussycats in comparison to their far bloodthirstier forebears.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



Edited by Tchan909 (01/20/08 09:12 PM)


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Re: Everyone [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7907398 - 01/20/08 09:12 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

You might be guilty of unnecessary optimism. The acts of religious organizations and individuals currently appear less grievous simply because they are acting now in a capacity which is both available and culturally acceptable. Today's world will not tolerate an inquisition, and that effectively keeps it from being acted out. That does not change the underlying flaws in the doctrine, however, so the possibility of future violence is always a very real one. Until the doctrine is destroyed, the threat remains.


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Re: Everyone [Re: WordlessNature]
    #7907403 - 01/20/08 09:13 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Doesn't it occur to you people that antagonism now will only buy deeper hostility should such an eventuality occur? I'm not talking about appeasement, I'm talking about being a civil human being. You'd be shocked at how much conflict can be avoided through politeness.

And good luck destroying the doctrines of Christianity. We all know how fun it is to burn books.


Edited by Tchan909 (01/20/08 09:30 PM)


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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7907468 - 01/20/08 09:25 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Is it not sort of infantile to never sacrifice some comfort for the greater good because you just don't want to? Are we reaching our highest potential by staying in our comfort zone, or is nature not telling us that we are going to have to get uncomfortable or it will make us uncomfortable for us..




No.
Our Will is our greatest tool, is what made us be, we are making ourselves be each second, by making use of it. For me, it means love and conscience and honesty, it's the force of living life knowing that you're living life and how you're living it.
How can this be foolish?
How can you measure what's more important for the world, or me, judging with your mind, my own situation?
Is it more important to save a starving child in Africa or stay at home eating popcorn in my love's arms? The reasonable answer is that YOU are not in the position to make this kind of appreciation, because only I am what best for ME, and I don't feel ashamed in admitting that I will always make a decision based on what my Will is, no matter how "childish" or "selfish" others might find it.
Because you know what? I learned that only when I am true to myself and to my wishes I am able to function in a constructive manner for myself AND others.
I also believe (and it had been verified) that if we are true to ourselves and guard our best interests, the best interests of others will be also satisfied. :heart:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7907469 - 01/20/08 09:25 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
You can still love someone who commits suicide Fireworks, you don't have to judge them.




Yes, that's what I said, in response to your assertion of judgement placed upon them.

Quote:


The person going through pain can be strong, and they can be a shining light for those around them.




Yes, the possibility may exist. Isn't it your judgement that it does exist? Earlier you said that we can love someone who commits suicide, that we don't have to judge them, but you never clarified whether or not we actually do. In fact, you already explicitly stated that most of humanity does.

The possibility isn't what is being questioned here, it is the nature of the judgement that is placed. 

Clearly, if someone commits suicide, then they surely could not have had the strength to be a shining light for others. The potential didn't actually exist if it didn't happen; otherwise, it would have happened. Asserting that potential may exist, as you are doing, doesn't change anything.

Quote:


They have this responsibility to themselves and the world around them to alleviate suffering.




How do you know that? People only have responsibility if they take responsibility. The viewpoint that others have responsibility doesn't make it so, no matter how much you feel that they "should".

This statement in quotations is judgement. Reality does not need to correspond with one's judgement. Reality unfolds as it will. You can assume responsibility for yourself, but you cannot assume responsibility for others.

Quote:


It's like how we should be happy that we are abundant in wealth and food but the poor should be happy too and not murder us just because we have it better.




This is more judgement. Why should the poor be happy with their situation within reality? Why should they feel the way that you want them to feel? You've demonstrated well enough why you feel that they "should" - your own self-interest, in not being murdered.

This is a clear example of an individual accepting the viewpoint that things would be better if we looked out for others instead of ourselves being based in nothing more than one's own self-interest. On the surface, it appears altruistic enough, but it is nothing more than one individual wishing others acted and behaved according to their own sense of how they "should", in order for they themselves to not suffer. It is an individual's own way of avoiding responsibility for themselves, all the while asserting that others should take responsibility. :wink:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Re: Everyone [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7907517 - 01/20/08 09:32 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Clearly, if someone commits suicide, then they surely could not have had the strength to be a shining light for others. The potential didn't actually exist if it didn't happen; otherwise, it would have happened. Asserting that potential may exist, as you are doing, doesn't change anything.





This sounds to me like you are saying that a potential that is not actualized was never a potential at all. Did I get that right?

Quote:

How do you know that? People only have responsibility if they take responsibility. The viewpoint that others have responsibility doesn't make it so, no matter how much you feel that they "should".





I don't feel that they should, I'm just speaking my mind. If they have the power, which sometimes they do, they have the response-ability. The ability to respond actively rather than succumb.

Quote:

This is more judgement. Why should the poor be happy with their situation within reality? Why should they feel the way that you want them to feel? You've demonstrated well enough why you feel that they "should" - your own self-interest, in not being murdered.





Yes, it is a self-interest. I would rather not poor people becoming angry with their situation and taking it out on the rest of us.

I guess what you are saying is that morality is an illusion and we shouldn't be restricted by it because then we end up controlling or being controlled. This is an honest question, i'm not setting you up here: do you think morals actually create more problems than they solve?


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Re: Everyone [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7907533 - 01/20/08 09:36 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Well, sorry not absolutely everything I say in my posts is logically and argumentatively airtight. I was trying to have a discussion, not a debate.




That's the purpose of discussion in this forum, to bring to the surface this fact. I am glad you realize it, and understand that it is necessary and beneficial to have debate.

Quote:


Besides, convince me Christians are growing in numbers and strength.




25% of the votes that went to the Republican candidate who received 51% of the vote in the caucus in Nevada were Mormon. Regardless, it is not anyone's duty to convince you that Christians are growing in numbers and strength, as you are the individual who proposed the viewpoint that they are not. If you cannot support your own position, then it is unsupported.

Quote:


Besides, your attack on my logical fallacy sidestepped my very valid point that modern Christians are pussycats in comparison to their far bloodthirstier forebears.




Attack? Revealing a logical fallacy for what it is is standard protocol in this forum. It didn't side-step anything, but simply addressed that which it addressed.

I personally don't see how your point is relevant to the discussion at-hand; perhaps that is why it was not addressed?


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Everyone [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7907534 - 01/20/08 09:36 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Well, sorry not absolutely everything I say in my posts is logically and argumentatively airtight. I was trying to have a discussion, not a debate. Besides, convince me Christians are growing in numbers and strength.

Besides, your attack on my logical fallacy sidestepped my very valid point that modern Christians are pussycats in comparison to their far bloodthirstier forebears.




Quote:

Compare these efforts to the religious violence perpetrated by Christians (among others) in the past and you will see they are tame as pussycats nowadays, and will only become more so.




This is exactly where you did it.
Also saying that they are nothing compared to what they used to be or compared to others is a logical fallacy.
Our society isn't funded on a Christian moral?
Let's take a look at the 10 commandments:
Quote:

1. I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

2. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.

3. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them.

4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

5. Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long.

6. Thou shalt not kill.

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.

8. Thou shalt not steal.

9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is thy neighbor's.




Well I'll be darn, some of them are even laws. :strokebeard:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Everyone [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7907544 - 01/20/08 09:37 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
And good luck destroying the doctrines of Christianity. We all know how fun it is to burn books.




There is a difference between burning books and reality bringing people to not read them in a certain way. :smirk:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Re: Everyone [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7907552 - 01/20/08 09:40 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

So are you saying society would have to be permissive of murder, theft, perjury, adultery, and running away from home in order to break free of its Judeo-Christian shackles?

Makes sense to me.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



Edited by Tchan909 (01/20/08 09:41 PM)


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Re: Everyone [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7907557 - 01/20/08 09:40 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
And good luck destroying the doctrines of Christianity. We all know how fun it is to burn books.




There is a difference between burning books and reality bringing people to not read them in a certain way. :smirk:




This is very true. And MY point is that this will be achieved through civility and understanding, not blatant antagonism of other people's beliefs.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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Re: Everyone [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7907563 - 01/20/08 09:42 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

Is it not sort of infantile to never sacrifice some comfort for the greater good because you just don't want to? Are we reaching our highest potential by staying in our comfort zone, or is nature not telling us that we are going to have to get uncomfortable or it will make us uncomfortable for us..




No.
Our Will is our greatest tool, is what made us be, we are making ourselves be each second, by making use of it. For me, it means love and conscience and honesty, it's the force of living life knowing that you're living life and how you're living it.
How can this be foolish?
How can you measure what's more important for the world, or me, judging with your mind, my own situation?
Is it more important to save a starving child in Africa or stay at home eating popcorn in my love's arms? The reasonable answer is that YOU are not in the position to make this kind of appreciation, because only I am what best for ME, and I don't feel ashamed in admitting that I will always make a decision based on what my Will is, no matter how "childish" or "selfish" others might find it.
Because you know what? I learned that only when I am true to myself and to my wishes I am able to function in a constructive manner for myself AND others.
I also believe (and it had been verified) that if we are true to ourselves and guard our best interests, the best interests of others will be also satisfied. :heart:




Quote:

How can you measure what's more important for the world, or me, judging with your mind, my own situation?




I don't know what your situation is, I'm just debating your points with the information I have. Maybe I am taking my frustrations about myself and the world on what I perceive to be an attitude out of alignment with the Tao and maybe my Will and your Will are different and that's ok. The whole poor/wealthy thing was probably provoked by this video:



:emo::emo::emo::emo::emo:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Everyone [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7907565 - 01/20/08 09:42 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
So are you saying society would have to be permissive of murder, theft, perjury, adultery, and running away from home in order to break free of its Judeo-Christian shackles?

Makes sense to me.




Exactly.
And I'm not kidding. :wink:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Re: Everyone [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7907582 - 01/20/08 09:45 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Now you've really lost me.

Half of the ten commandments seem like common sense to me. I don't see how it's okay to murder or steal, and people who do it should be punished. To say that is a Christian belief is ludicrous.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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Re: Everyone [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7907596 - 01/20/08 09:47 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

It is also Christian moral, even though people were punished for that before Christianity as well.
I honestly and truly believe that of we are to learn and grow, interdictions of any kind must stop.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Everyone [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7907608 - 01/20/08 09:50 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Basically she is saying morality is an illusion, which is fine, although I doubt she'd actually want to live in a world without morals (although this point would be mute according to her logic because it is not how reality is presently unfolding) and fireworks says that any potential that is not actualized in the present is not possible in the first place.

I can understand this from a philosophical view point but I don't really see how this can be defended pragmatically. I suppose the point is that what we have now is both bad and good and we might as well enjoy it without feeling guilty about the bad which the good has created.

Quote:

I honestly and truly believe that of we are to learn and grow, interdictions of any kind must stop.




I don't think people would be willing to suffer that much, it seems. All the load seems to fall on a few people at a time. There is still time though... though it seems to be against us.


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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7907643 - 01/20/08 09:57 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
This sounds to me like you are saying that a potential that is not actualized was never a potential at all. Did I get that right?




Exactly, unless you are interested in arguing agansit direct evidence regarding the nature of reality. You cannot find potential in an event that has already occured. One speculates that potential may have existed, but the greatest potential is the one that is actualized. It wasn't actually potential if it didn't manifest.

Quote:


I don't feel that they should, I'm just speaking my mind.




Yes, you are speaking your mind, which feels that they should. This is evidenced, as you have already stated as much. The fact that you are speaking your mind doesn't mean that speaking your mind doesn't mean you don't mean what you meant. :lol:

Quote:


If they have the power, which sometimes they do, they have the response-ability. The ability to respond actively rather than succumb.




Well then, obviously if they have the ability to alleviate suffering without commiting suicide, then they don't commit suicide, eh? I don't understand how you have come to the perspective to formulate the idea that sometimes "they" have personal power. Firstly, you're engaging in collectivism here, which does not represent the nature of reality, and, secondly, you are no authority on the internal state of another speculative identity.

Someone facing the decision of suicide is doing it because they see no other way, subsequently implying that they have no other way. If there was a way in which they would choose to continue to live, life would naturally follow that course, as life is the process of living. :hehehe:

This refers back to my response to your first quotation in this reply. :wink:

Quote:


Yes, it is a self-interest. I would rather not poor people becoming angry with their situation and taking it out on the rest of us.




Exactly. This is the same as "frowning upon" suicide because it harms most people. It doesn't accomplish anything to alleviate the source of the potential that would result in such an outcome. It is judgement. Judgement is the condemnation of concluding reality exists in a certain way. This is one step towards ensuring that reality does exist that way, but is mostly the creation of suffering, as one no longer lives in accordance with the nature of reality.

Quote:


I guess what you are saying is that morality is an illusion and we shouldn't be restricted by it because then we end up controlling or being controlled. This is an honest question, i'm not setting you up here: do you think morals actually create more problems than they solve?




Well, morality is an illusion, in that it is an abstract concept that human beings manifest. The real question is our motivations for holding the perspective that we find ourselves holding, whether or not they are based in realization in the nature of reality, and the effects that our perspective have in our actions, which propagate the creation of reality.

You've realized that feeling that people shouldn't commit suicide is only based in one's self-interest in not experiencing suffering, and it is a great first step towards alleviation of suffering itself, for yourself and others. :thumbup: Realizing that the reason you want poor people to not murder others is because you do not wish to be murdered and have that which you identify with as your life threatened is a good first step towards preventing it from happening. :thumbup:

Since the Bible was mentioned earlier, consider now "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". In this phrase, exists both the sentiments you have expressed earlier regarding helping others, as well as Icelander's viewpoint that one only concern themselves with theirselves, living their life as they wish to live it. Icelander and Eternal_cowabunga are mutally compatible, how precious. :smirk:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Re: Everyone [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7907646 - 01/20/08 10:00 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
This is very true. And MY point is that this will be achieved through civility and understanding, not blatant antagonism of other people's beliefs.




I agree as well; I just don't know how we got down this avenue of discussion in the first place, since it seems mutually self-evident. :hehehe:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Everyone [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7907660 - 01/20/08 10:03 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Half of the ten commandments seem like common sense to me. I don't see how it's okay to murder or steal, and people who do it should be punished. To say that is a Christian belief is ludicrous.




Well, it is a Christian belief, and I think her point is that is is common sense. Its a natural order that is established in society, due to self-interest. For us to hold forwards the views because of the Christian world-view, as many do, and as many think Christianity's absence would mean people would become permissive to these ideas, is counter-productive to society's evolution as a whole. :smile:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Re: Everyone [Re: Love Cap]
    #7907682 - 01/20/08 10:09 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

We all have plenty of opportunities to pay it forward. My wife and I went to a shelter last week and gave out $200 in $5 gift cards to the homeless people. It really made them feel better and we met some nice people, some of whom were really making an effort to get their lives together. Since I was there and now I am pretty well provided for, we have only according to the measure that we give. When you don't have much and you give anyway you get blessed much more than when you can afford it. If everyone in this country that had a good income took on helping one person there would be no homeless problem in the country. There are sooo many millionaires in America it isn't even funny. Network marketing and the internet has made it possible for anyone who wants it to have a better life. I don't give a fuck who you are or what's your excuse, 9x out of 10 I can say I have been through worse and came out on top anyway. I give God the credit for most of it but my decision to accept the incoming prosperity had to be made before the money would start coming. Luckily that part is over now and we are at the cash the checks stage and finish off our debts completely. I am hoping on this big job. We want to go find out what they all need and we are gonna buy it for them. Like hygeine stuff etc, and prob a gift card to a dunkin donuts so they can have a reason to be inside when it is cold...they can sip it and sit there for a couple hours.

Life is really pathetic and worthless if you don't put others 1st. Most people that are rich didn't get there by thinking of themselves...only that burned out exec who will eventually blow his own brains out after the wife takes off with the kid.What fun is that money?


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aka NHMI


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Everyone [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7907686 - 01/20/08 10:10 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Yes, you are speaking your mind, which feels that they should. This is evidenced, as you have already stated as much. The fact that you are speaking your mind doesn't mean that speaking your mind doesn't mean you don't mean what you meant. :lol:




You caught me :blush:

You have made me think a lot about the word "should", and how reality has no interest in conforming to our abstractions and ideas that we impose on reality, and that it may even be harmful to impose these abstractions as they are in a way not honest with the way things naturally unfold. You have even got me thinking that it is against the Tao to be making any kind of judgment at all. You present your arguments pretty well. I have held these opinions in the past, but I did find it interesting to take on the side of the bible as it seemed to make some of my more dormant issues become apparent so I could observe them for what they really are. Now the question is what do I want to will, rather than what do I indirectly choose based on an idea of what I should be doing. For me, these two somehow always intermingle and I feel that my will is always based off a judgment of reality rather than a moment to moment awareness of what is happening. Could you tell me why that is?

As for Icelander, I find it funny that he doesn't like me being here anymore because I actually think we share a lot of the same opinions most of the time.


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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7907701 - 01/20/08 10:14 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

...

Life is really pathetic and worthless if you don't put others 1st. Most people that are rich didn't get there by thinking of themselves...only that burned out exec who will eventually blow his own brains out after the wife takes off with the kid.What fun is that money?




And now this post has me rethinking all the previous arguments and making me respect the Bible again, because I think about how most people are not at the stage where they are very conscious of reality and so right now we depend on money and other people and I think if there weren't groups of people specifically dedicated to helping people, or people whose self-interest was in helping other people then EVERYONE would suffer.

None of us would have anything if we didn't rely on the love and care of others who concern themselves with the greater good, even when it wasn't comfortable for them.

Not saying that only the Bible has these ideas, but I've really only started thinking this way after started reading it


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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7907742 - 01/20/08 10:27 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Does anyone here REALLY think that we're the only animals that have this kind of consciousness JUST to make ourselves more comfortable? Yeah, we can't forget that we're animals, but we're obviously more than JUST animals here, shouldn't we be trying to figure out why? Aren't we just going to get bored with buying more things for ourselves and sitting on our couches not doing anything? Like I said before.. to the earth right now, we're just a bunch of fucking monkeys makings dumb shit to choke out the earth. I don't think we're supposed to be doing that. :lol:


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Re: Everyone [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7907772 - 01/20/08 10:37 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Half of the ten commandments seem like common sense to me. I don't see how it's okay to murder or steal, and people who do it should be punished. To say that is a Christian belief is ludicrous.




Well, it is a Christian belief, and I think her point is that is is common sense. Its a natural order that is established in society, due to self-interest. For us to hold forwards the views because of the Christian world-view, as many do, and as many think Christianity's absence would mean people would become permissive to these ideas, is counter-productive to society's evolution as a whole. :smile:




Yes, that's exactly what I was saying. :yinyang:
There's this interesting and wise quote from K-pax regarding punishing, the movie is a fiction, but this doesn't mean that the idea doesn't stand on it's own if interpreted with reason. :smile:
Quote:


    * Every being in the universe knows right from wrong, Mark.

    * Let me tell you something, Mark. You humans, most of you, subscribe to this policy of an eye for an eye, a life for a life, which is known throughout the universe for its... stupidity. Even your Buddha and your Christ had quite a different vision; but nobody's paid much attention to them, not even the Buddhists or the Christians.




--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineGinseng1
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Re: Everyone [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7908075 - 01/21/08 12:33 AM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
ARGUMENT TO THE FUTURE in a logical fallacy.





This statement stands out to me.

Logical fallacy? Isn't logic mainly based on science? And isn't one of science's function to make extremely accurate predictions? So if science is making a prediction about our planets future, then wouldn't it be a logical fallacy NOT to argue the possible future? Our sense of *time* is the tool we need to use to grow and move forward in the relationship with ourselves and our environment. We are doomed to repeat our past, unless we adress it with a will to really change.

Humans are as confused and seperated as ever. Looking at the past, our possible future, and coming up with solutions in this cycle of fear and ignorance, shows a great will for a better "everything". It shows a respoinsiblity to the divine essence that is life.




The OP made a great point. I would have to agree with it whole heartedly. Why do we keep arguing? We never get anywhere. We need unification, and that begins with love. We never look at new ideas, instead we only look at our fallacies and bandage them with out-dated and useless solutions. After thousands of years, we still reak. I feel embarassed for humanities image. And I am not singling anyone out.

If we loved other people as much as we loved ourselves, the world would indeed be a better place. To think that it is impossible is a flawd attitude, because this is not how change comes about. It is impossible for humanity to work the way it does today while still retaining even the slightest sense of dignity.

I think the basic message the OP was trying to make is that our world needs serious redefining of ourselves, our place in this universe, our home, and what we presume our lives should be like.


--------------------
Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...


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Re: Everyone [Re: Ginseng1]
    #7908181 - 01/21/08 01:30 AM (16 years, 12 days ago)

I'm gonna keep it short and simple. :smirk:
It is a logical fallacy because he offered no logical argumentation that this is going to happen, therefore it is an arbitrary conclusion.
It lacks of any substantiation.
We don't know if this will really be the future, judging the future only through an approximation of the past gives erroneous results.
ALSO we were talking about the PRESENT, he asked me if any Christian is trying to impose their will on us and the evidence that sustains so is overwhelming.
Try harder next time. :hehehe:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7908491 - 01/21/08 05:02 AM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
You have even got me thinking that it is against the Tao to be making any kind of judgment at all.




Well, I may question this, but it really is just a matter of how exactly we refer to judgement. Humans will always analyze their perceptions of their sensory data and formulate a perspective of how reality exists in order to act accordingly. I think its simply a question of how reflective our interpretations of our perceptions are of the nature of reality, which mostly is a question of our own conditioning in the roles we find ourselves in, the amount of obstructions that prevent our awareness from directly perceiving the sensory data our senses are providing us through the interaction of our sensory devices and reality.

Regarding the nature of others, it is more a question of recognizing potential that does exist, and acting in a manner that is based within a reflective perspective of the nature of reality, so that one may effectively produce desired change within reality itself. Human beings, all of reality, exists in a state of constant change. Human beings are very adaptive creatures, the phenomonenon of our mind knows not very many limitations on knowing reality and changing in accordance with it.

I only question a judgement that does not reflect this understanding of reality. If I dismiss another individual as an alcoholic and turn the other way, reality will not agree when the other individual finds a path towards alleviating their addictions. Placing such a judgement takes away the opporutunity one has to producing desired change, since one's mind has produced an ultimate conclusion regarding the nature of a phenomenon that is still evolving. Reality is far too dynamic for ourselves to harm our own interests in doing so, because it makes us less capable of living life in accordance with our own preferences. We also unintentionally create suffering in others, and this evidences suffering of our own.

Quote:


You present your arguments pretty well. I have held these opinions in the past, but I did find it interesting to take on the side of the bible as it seemed to make some of my more dormant issues become apparent so I could observe them for what they really are.




Great thought. :thumbup: I really appreciate this sentiment, of truly exploring reality out by becoming an observer of other perspectives on reality. We learn so much from the steps along our path. One thing I have noticed is that everything we do will play a pivotal role in our path further down the road, even the simplest of occurences may have been crucial in altering the course of our life in the most profound way later on. A phrase that I really think has deep meaning regarding this thought is "all i've known, all i've done, all i've felt, was leading to this". :tripping:

Quote:


Now the question is what do I want to will, rather than what do I indirectly choose based on an idea of what I should be doing. For me, these two somehow always intermingle and I feel that my will is always based off a judgment of reality rather than a moment to moment awareness of what is happening. Could you tell me why that is?




I haven't addressed it already, but I do recall some discussion you put forth in this thread regarding what you referred to, I think, as the Christ syndrome, basically the idea that humans can become uncomfortable ourselves in influencing a beneficial change to alleviate the suffering of others. This idea does sound like it relates with the concept of Christ, as well as the Bodhivista.

There is benefit in acting and existing in such a perspective of reality, I would think, but I do question it as being the ultimate path to take in order to alleviate suffering. I do not necessarily think that one cannot comfortably interact with reality in order to produced desired change, and I happen to think that to exist in a comfortable manner is more effective in producing desired change.

Ultimately, you have to look at it from the perspective of suffering itself. Living uncomfortably in producing change describes to me an experience of suffering. I question the effectiveness that one who is suffering will have in alleviating suffering in reality. If someone is suffering, it is because they do not understand the causes and conditions of suffering. If they have not alleviated their own suffering, then they are ineffective in alleviating the suffering in others, probably unknowingly inflicting suffering in others, which is how this discussion began (a good sign, I think :smile:).

The Bible says to not remove the splinter in my eye without first removing the plank in your own. This, I think, is what the idea refers to. I also think this is what is meant when one considers the idea of Christ consciousness itself. The words of Christ are meant as a path towards being Christ. We are talking about a path of becoming more conscious of reality, of ourselves. The only way to produce Christ in others is to produce Christ in ourselves, and we do this by being aware. Suffering results from a lack of awareness, so we must be aware in order to first alleviate our own suffering.

So, regarding your question, I think it is simply practical to enjoy your own life. I have found, in personal experience, that when I focus inward, relax, and grow, I become more effective in effecting positive change in others. I've directly observed this evolution in my own life and in reality around me. Life becomes more enjoyable, and others may begin to enjoy it too, since you naturally make it more enjoyable for them as a result. :wink:

Quote:


As for Icelander, I find it funny that he doesn't like me being here anymore because I actually think we share a lot of the same opinions most of the time.




Well, if I were you, I wouldn't have posted that here, and sent it to him in a private message. :hehehe:

Also, give him a :hug:, he's not as tough as he likes to make it seem. :smirk:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Re: Everyone [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7908501 - 01/21/08 05:19 AM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Our society is rapidly moving away from Christianity and towards more secular moral ideals as the culture grows increasingly diverse. Evangelicals can throw all the hissy-fits they like, there's not much they can do about it. They're on the way out.




Are you certain? Mike Huckabee is a Republican candidate that has great appeal to a new generation of evangelicals. Do you realize that people take their families to church, that it isn't just old people that are now beginning to die off?

The diversity of culture only means that other cultures have risen, not that Christianity has necessarily receded. Mormons are strong as ever, and the fact that there is a serious Mormon candidate for President, Mitt Romney, probably futhers the Mormon cause, just as Hillary Clinton and Barak Obama are being considered important milestones in the name of diversity and evolution. :wink:

The fact is that Christianity's influence isn't simply on the legislative front, it is specifically about what other people believe, and why. The last two times I was in a Christian service was a wedding I was in, and a funeral for my grandmother. Both times, I was visibly upset over the course of events in each church. The funeral service was so insulting to my understanding of reality that I used the experience as fuel to speak out agansit this manifestation of the ideas of Christ, the part that was never to exist in the first place - the Church.

I recognize the positive effects of community, but I know for fact that the Church is not necessary for community to come together. It isn't necessary; in fact, it is counter-productive, as the Church divides, and the fact that it is based upon baseless assumptions of the nature of reality discredits it. The idea of a parasitical meme that preys upon people in the most celebrated and mourned moments of their lives is very dissatisfying. A wedding and a funeral in the Church is being processed by an institution. Neither has to be, neither has to include the Church in the slightest. It is more beautiful of an experience, and more inspiring and healing of an experience, if it is not.

I have nothing agansit a church either; in fact, I love the experience of being in some churches. It is the institution that exists in ideaological terms that gets bored into the head of the individuals that congregrate there. Its like a lawyer bringing his card to you while you're on an ambulance. It is harmful to people in their path of understanding reality.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7910433 - 01/21/08 04:33 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
i'm sorry that i disgusted and surprised you, icelander. all my debating here will now be based off the bible. the bible is truth. deal with it.




Thank you 666pointer.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everyone [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7910449 - 01/21/08 04:36 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

I think we are suppose to dream up a better tomorrow and try and create that reality rather than simply give in to all our desires and base unconscious animal drives; to leave a good world for the next generation rather than destroy the Earth. I refuse to believe that we are destined to destroy ourselves because we simply "don't have it in us" to make a plan and stick with it rather than numb our minds.




ALL of this is fear based.
I refuse to do anything for the future generation, earth, or anything/anybody else, because I "have" to.
We're not destined to destroy ourselves, we're not destined to make things better, we're are NOT destined to anything.
If you have any prove to sustain that we do, by all means please share with us.
And "because I feel so will NOT" work.
Others "feel" that they have to burn children, rape women pr throw the atomic bomb for a better future.




Why do I think this is falling on deaf ears?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (01/21/08 04:37 PM)


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OfflineWordlessNature
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Re: Everyone [Re: Icelander]
    #7910562 - 01/21/08 04:56 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

That's because those who agree with you already agreed before this debate even began. Those who do not agree will not learn through debate. As I'm sure you realize, debate is a showcase for argument, not a means to change. I have yet to meet one single person whose world view has shifted through debate...


--------------------


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Everyone [Re: WordlessNature]
    #7910602 - 01/21/08 05:01 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Then you should meet me.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everyone [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #7910609 - 01/21/08 05:03 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

I also have met several here and I have changed my mind on many things because of debate here. Especially with Veritas.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7910633 - 01/21/08 05:09 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

If your following the Bible make sure you practice the parts about wiping out other cultures and appropriating their goods. The Bible is definitely very empowering in this way. :thumbup:


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everyone [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7910635 - 01/21/08 05:09 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Sweet:monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Posts: 4,587
Re: Everyone [Re: LuNaTiX]
    #7910636 - 01/21/08 05:10 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

LuNaTiX said:
if everyone cared more about the people around them then them selves, this would be a better world.




Caring doesn't always lead to pleasant ends and sometimes evokes atrocious means. If you believe that burning a heretic at the stake can save the heretic from eternal damnation, then it seems to be the caring thing to burn him.

Caring is only desirable when the intended end is to alleviate or prevent suffering. Caring about anything else is caring too much and probably an intrusion into others dignity.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everyone [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #7910643 - 01/21/08 05:11 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

True, no one can say with certainty what would make a "better world". Maybe the world is perfect and in perfect balance.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Everyone [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #7910671 - 01/21/08 05:19 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

The only parts of the Bible that really interest me are the words of Jesus :jesus:


--------------------


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7910683 - 01/21/08 05:21 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Jesus saves.. apparently :shrug:



--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Everyone [Re: Icelander]
    #7910684 - 01/21/08 05:21 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

'Maybe the world is perfect and in perfect balance.'

Exactly. But not, at all. Somehow.


--------------------


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Everyone [Re: Icelander]
    #7910692 - 01/21/08 05:22 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

I think we are suppose to dream up a better tomorrow and try and create that reality rather than simply give in to all our desires and base unconscious animal drives; to leave a good world for the next generation rather than destroy the Earth. I refuse to believe that we are destined to destroy ourselves because we simply "don't have it in us" to make a plan and stick with it rather than numb our minds.




ALL of this is fear based.
I refuse to do anything for the future generation, earth, or anything/anybody else, because I "have" to.
We're not destined to destroy ourselves, we're not destined to make things better, we're are NOT destined to anything.
If you have any prove to sustain that we do, by all means please share with us.
And "because I feel so will NOT" work.
Others "feel" that they have to burn children, rape women pr throw the atomic bomb for a better future.




Why do I think  this is falling on deaf ears?




It's ok, I like to listen myself talking (typing) :lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7910695 - 01/21/08 05:23 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

"And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters"


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Everyone [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7910699 - 01/21/08 05:23 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.


--------------------


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7910703 - 01/21/08 05:25 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

"Behold, here are my virgin daughter and his concubine; let me bring them out now. Ravish them and do with them what seems good to you"


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7910705 - 01/21/08 05:25 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.




What about the sister? :naughty:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Everyone [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7910729 - 01/21/08 05:30 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

JESUS TALKS TO ME IN MY DREAMS, LIKE CRACK TALKIN TO FEENS/ FAXIN ME INSTANT MESSAGES, THREW VISIONS,AND IMAGES/ JESUS WALKS WITH ME THREW ALL MY MISERY PAIN,SIMPLE AND PLAIN/ I WAS A STEALER,TAKIN EVERYTHING THAT WASN`T GIVIN IN VAIN/ A SERTIFIED SINNER, HE SAID I HAD TO MAKE A CHANGE/ NOW I`M A SERTIFIED SAINT,PAINTIN PICTURES FOR JESUS/ I HAD TO CALL ON HIS NAME,HAD TO GET HELP FROM MY CREATER/ JESUS TALKS TO ME, HE SAID I AM THE ALPHA AND OMEGA/ JESUS WALKS WITH ME, HE SAID IF I TAKE ONE, HE`D TAKE TWO STEPS TOWARDS ME/ DIDN`T GET WINGS, BUT FELT ALL OF MY BURDENS FLY OFF OF ME/ JUST FROM WHAT HE OFFERED ME,OFFTENLY NOW WHEN I PRAY HE TALKS TO ME/ ANNOINTED ME,POINTED ME, TO WALK IN HIS DIRECTION,*A LIFE CORRECTION THAT IS*/ EVER SINCE THEN, NOW I KNOW WHO MY BEST FRIEND REALLY IS/ I ASKED MYSELF THIS, NOW CAN I REALLY TURN MY BACK ON A MAN, THAT HAS MY WHOLE LIFE PLANNED/ MAN, I TOOK A ROUTE OF DARKNESS, AND GOT LOST IN IT. I TRIED TO HIDE,AND MAKE A RUN FOR IT/ I RAN FOR SO LONG,U WOULD`VE THOUGHT I WAS FOREST/ RUNNIN RIGHT INTO THE DEVIL`S PLAN,BUT JESUS HAD PLANS/ JESUS TALKS TO ALL OF US, BUT SOMETIMES WE DON`T UNDERSTAND/ JESUS WALKS WITH US, FROM HERE TO DESSERTED LANDS/ I WAS BROUGHT UP IN THE CHRUCH, BUT FIRST WASN`T A FAN/,OF A SAVIOR MORE GREATER,MORE SACRED, THAN GREEN PAPER/WHEN HE TALKED, I HAD TO LISTEN,AND GET THE VISION/ WHEN I SAW, THEN I HAD TO MAKE A DECISION/ WITNESSING EVERY SOUL LIVIN, IS SCRIMAGING, WITH SIN/ IT`S UP TO US TO DEFEAT THE DEVIL/ TO BECOME A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN, TO JESUS`S LEVEL/ I WENT TO CHURCH WITH A SHOVEL,AND BURIED ALL MY DEMONS/BACK TO HELL THAT`S WHERE I LEAVE`EM,EVEN WHEN THE DEVIL RELAESES`EM/ *I AM THE SON OF GOD*, I CAN`NOT BE HARMED/ *I AM A IMAGE OF MAN*,ON EARTH/MY SOUL CLEANSED FROM THE DIRT/ *MY MIND IS PROFICY*, I TOLD YA`LL JESUS TALKS TO ME/ *A DISCIPLE OF LEADERSHIP*, I LEAD A PATH OF DELIVERANCE/ REASSURANCE,I AM THE TRUTH, THE TRUTH IS WHAT YA`LL WITNESSIN/.


--------------------


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7910751 - 01/21/08 05:34 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Hello... Eternal... wake up :lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Everyone [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7910779 - 01/21/08 05:40 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Nice try, SATAN. Don't you been BURN IN HELL JESUS that is what you really want to say, SATAN


--------------------


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7910789 - 01/21/08 05:41 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Ok, ok, I've had my fun. I didn't know people would take me seriously when I said that I was only going to base my arguments off the bible from now on so I just ran with it.

Jesus is my bro though :peace:


--------------------


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7911137 - 01/21/08 06:37 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

:lol::shrug:


--------------------


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OfflineGinseng1
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7912795 - 01/21/08 10:55 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
Ok, ok, I've had my fun. I didn't know people would take me seriously when I said that I was only going to base my arguments off the bible from now on so I just ran with it.

Jesus is my bro though :peace:




LOL!  I knew you were playing.. so I laughed even harder.


--------------------
Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Everyone [Re: WordlessNature]
    #7913112 - 01/21/08 11:53 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

WordlessNature said:
That's because those who agree with you already agreed before this debate even began. Those who do not agree will not learn through debate. As I'm sure you realize, debate is a showcase for argument, not a means to change. I have yet to meet one single person whose world view has shifted through debate...




I owe most of who I am to this forum and what I have gained from participating here. It might not sound like much since this is just some forum, but that would simply be an underestimation. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineWordlessNature
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Re: Everyone [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7913257 - 01/22/08 12:24 AM (16 years, 11 days ago)

That's reassuring to hear...


--------------------


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Everyone [Re: WordlessNature]
    #7913304 - 01/22/08 12:38 AM (16 years, 11 days ago)

The discussion that I have engaged in, within this forum, over the years has really kept me conscious of my thoughts. I would not be a critically-thinking individual if it were not for these forums. We teach each other, and I've seen this happen in life-altering ways numerous times in this forum, in myself and in others.

I would not be where I am on a path of awareness today if it weren't for P&S. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7913907 - 01/22/08 09:21 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
JESUS TALKS TO ME IN MY DREAMS, LIKE CRACK TALKIN TO FEENS/ FAXIN ME INSTANT MESSAGES, THREW VISIONS,AND IMAGES/ JESUS WALKS WITH ME THREW ALL MY MISERY PAIN,SIMPLE AND PLAIN/ I WAS A STEALER,TAKIN EVERYTHING THAT WASN`T GIVIN IN VAIN/ A SERTIFIED SINNER, HE SAID I HAD TO MAKE A CHANGE/ NOW I`M A SERTIFIED SAINT,PAINTIN PICTURES FOR JESUS/ I HAD TO CALL ON HIS NAME,HAD TO GET HELP FROM MY CREATER/ JESUS TALKS TO ME, HE SAID I AM THE ALPHA AND OMEGA/ JESUS WALKS WITH ME, HE SAID IF I TAKE ONE, HE`D TAKE TWO STEPS TOWARDS ME/ DIDN`T GET WINGS, BUT FELT ALL OF MY BURDENS FLY OFF OF ME/ JUST FROM WHAT HE OFFERED ME,OFFTENLY NOW WHEN I PRAY HE TALKS TO ME/ ANNOINTED ME,POINTED ME, TO WALK IN HIS DIRECTION,*A LIFE CORRECTION THAT IS*/ EVER SINCE THEN, NOW I KNOW WHO MY BEST FRIEND REALLY IS/ I ASKED MYSELF THIS, NOW CAN I REALLY TURN MY BACK ON A MAN, THAT HAS MY WHOLE LIFE PLANNED/ MAN, I TOOK A ROUTE OF DARKNESS, AND GOT LOST IN IT. I TRIED TO HIDE,AND MAKE A RUN FOR IT/ I RAN FOR SO LONG,U WOULD`VE THOUGHT I WAS FOREST/ RUNNIN RIGHT INTO THE DEVIL`S PLAN,BUT JESUS HAD PLANS/ JESUS TALKS TO ALL OF US, BUT SOMETIMES WE DON`T UNDERSTAND/ JESUS WALKS WITH US, FROM HERE TO DESSERTED LANDS/ I WAS BROUGHT UP IN THE CHRUCH, BUT FIRST WASN`T A FAN/,OF A SAVIOR MORE GREATER,MORE SACRED, THAN GREEN PAPER/WHEN HE TALKED, I HAD TO LISTEN,AND GET THE VISION/ WHEN I SAW, THEN I HAD TO MAKE A DECISION/ WITNESSING EVERY SOUL LIVIN, IS SCRIMAGING, WITH SIN/ IT`S UP TO US TO DEFEAT THE DEVIL/ TO BECOME A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN, TO JESUS`S LEVEL/ I WENT TO CHURCH WITH A SHOVEL,AND BURIED ALL MY DEMONS/BACK TO HELL THAT`S WHERE I LEAVE`EM,EVEN WHEN THE DEVIL RELAESES`EM/ *I AM THE SON OF GOD*, I CAN`NOT BE HARMED/ *I AM A IMAGE OF MAN*,ON EARTH/MY SOUL CLEANSED FROM THE DIRT/ *MY MIND IS PROFICY*, I TOLD YA`LL JESUS TALKS TO ME/ *A DISCIPLE OF LEADERSHIP*, I LEAD A PATH OF DELIVERANCE/ REASSURANCE,I AM THE TRUTH, THE TRUTH IS WHAT YA`LL WITNESSIN/.




I suggest a therapist dude. You seem to be in great suffering.:monkeydance: AND PLEASE QUIT YELLING.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (01/22/08 09:26 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everyone [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7913916 - 01/22/08 09:24 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

WordlessNature said:
That's because those who agree with you already agreed before this debate even began. Those who do not agree will not learn through debate. As I'm sure you realize, debate is a showcase for argument, not a means to change. I have yet to meet one single person whose world view has shifted through debate...






I owe most of who I am to this forum and what I have gained from participating here. It might not sound like much since this is just some forum, but that would simply be an underestimation. :mushroom2:




While I don't owe most of what I am to this forum,:lol: It has been of  great help in working out my personal understanding of life and provided hours of entertainment and distraction.:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Everyone [Re: Icelander]
    #7915171 - 01/22/08 03:21 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
While I don't owe most of what I am to this forum,:lol: It has been of  great help in working out my personal understanding of life and provided hours of entertainment and distraction.:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:




Well, you came into this forum with an understanding of life developed over the years, while I came into this forum just beginning to gain a sense of understanding of life, which is why I would cite a strong influence on who I am. This is probably what they refer to as the generation gap. :smirk:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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