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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7907233 - 01/20/08 08:38 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

So you switched from the messianic complex to the apostle complex? :grin:
Make no mistake, you're free to believe whatever floats your boat, but when you post in a forum like this one, your beliefs stand out for nothing.
God has shown you the Matrix? God is winning? All of these sounds like personal issues to me.
As a side note, would you kill for your god if he made it clear for you that he wants that? :strokebeard:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Posts: 7,152
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Re: Everyone [Re: Love Cap]
    #7907243 - 01/20/08 08:41 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

i think having media literacy is the key. i haven't watched TV in a long time, but tonight I watched it. I really payed attention to each message of each commercial, it seems a lot of commercials are selling mindlessness and then some commercials are almost provoking you into taking some kind of positive action (commercials that end with a black screen and white letters "Think About It." or "Take Responsibility")

heaven and hell to me = slavery or freedom, hell is the dominator/dominated; those who control and those who allow themselves to be controlled.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Posts: 14,794
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7907250 - 01/20/08 08:43 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

I think we are suppose to dream up a better tomorrow and try and create that reality rather than simply give in to all our desires and base unconscious animal drives; to leave a good world for the next generation rather than destroy the Earth. I refuse to believe that we are destined to destroy ourselves because we simply "don't have it in us" to make a plan and stick with it rather than numb our minds.




ALL of this is fear based.
I refuse to do anything for the future generation, earth, or anything/anybody else, because I "have" to.
We're not destined to destroy ourselves, we're not destined to make things better, we're are NOT destined to anything.
If you have any prove to sustain that we do, by all means please share with us.
And "because I feel so will NOT" work.
Others "feel" that they have to burn children, rape women pr throw the atomic bomb for a better future.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Everyone [Re: Love Cap]
    #7907254 - 01/20/08 08:44 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Love Cap said:
i agree with you completely. now how do we get this message out more?




all we can do is try and find other people who are seeking out some kind of truth, any truth - you can usually spot these people out by the kind of ideas they like to discuss (really, anyone who discusses ideas rather than things and people)


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OfflineLove Cap
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7907256 - 01/20/08 08:44 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

i think the only hell is here on earth, if you look at it that way. but when it comes to spreading consciousness; i think the internet and what we do on here is a HUGE open door! it's like all the things we bring up here... is just floating around in 'internet space' for anyone to see and respond too...


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7907259 - 01/20/08 08:45 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

I've found that looking after your own interests is a better way to help the people you love than caring about them too much. I care about others too much; I often find myself taking their opinions more seriously than my own, or becoming depressed when I can't meet their needs as I perceive them.

The trick is to make yourself strong without forgetting that you must give back to people who need it. That is often forgotten along the way.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7907261 - 01/20/08 08:45 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
this is why people frown on suicide, because it harms all of humanity.




If suicide harms all of humanity, than suicide exists as an opportunity for humanity to learn to stop harming itself. People frown on suicide because it is an external pattern that they themselves associate with a negative experience. To frown on the suicide of another is to blame reality for the suffering that one inflicts upon itself.

The fact is, there is suffering on this planet, and sometimes it can, for whatever path arises, be manifested in an individual to the point that they have found no way to alleviate that suffering. The truth is, some people suffer to the point that the alleviation of suffering is more important than to live, because why live if one can find no way to alleviate suffering?

Is it tragic? Yes. Is it preventable? Yes, but there is a point of no return, and some people get past that point because of the way reality unfolds. Suffering exists because individuals are oblivious to the suffering that exists on this planet, suffering exists because individuals are oblivious to the suffering that they unknowingly inflict.

People feel harmed by suicide because they themselves are forced to become conscious of the suffering in the world around them, and it is not preferable for them because then they suffer as well. To "frown" upon suicide is a human being's way of avoiding taking responsibility for their own experience by blaming and passing judgement on another individual who simply cannot bear the suffering of existence.

These people unknowingly hold a viewpoint that it is more preferable that those who commit suicide exist in a state of intense physical and mental suffering because they themselves do not wish to be conscious of the existence of suffering. Of course, be fully aware that the first step towards the alleviation of all suffering is to realize that it exists. From there, people will begin to realize why it exists, and will act from within a perspective that respects this and seeks to alleviate suffering by not creating it, for themselves, and, subsequently, others.

:craven:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7907262 - 01/20/08 08:45 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

heaven and hell to me = slavery or freedom, hell is the dominator/dominated; those who control and those who allow themselves to be controlled.




And a good christian imposing his will about what others should do, to others, couldn't be called slavery?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Everyone [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7907268 - 01/20/08 08:46 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

I think we are suppose to dream up a better tomorrow and try and create that reality rather than simply give in to all our desires and base unconscious animal drives; to leave a good world for the next generation rather than destroy the Earth. I refuse to believe that we are destined to destroy ourselves because we simply "don't have it in us" to make a plan and stick with it rather than numb our minds.




ALL of this is fear based.
I refuse to do anything for the future generation, earth, or anything/anybody else, because I "have" to.
We're not destined to destroy ourselves, we're not destined to make things better, we're are NOT destined to anything.
If you have any prove to sustain that we do, by all means please share with us.
And "because I feel so will NOT" work.
Others "feel" that they have to burn children, rape women pr throw the atomic bomb for a better future.




You don't have to do anything, but I think you just admitted that you are capable so in that sense you share some of the responsibility. There is no reward or punishment, other than the possible reality we are creating for All That Is in the future, which is a part of you and me


--------------------


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
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Re: Everyone [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7907274 - 01/20/08 08:47 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

heaven and hell to me = slavery or freedom, hell is the dominator/dominated; those who control and those who allow themselves to be controlled.




And a good christian imposing his will about what others should do, to others, couldn't be called slavery?




I haven't heard of a Christian forcefully imposing his beliefs on anyone for a hundred years, at least. I've gotten the whole "convert and be saved by Jesus" lecture shitloads of times, but when I tell them I respect their beliefs but that they're not for me they generally respect my decision as well. They can believe I'm going to hell if they like, I don't care.

Has it been different for you?


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



Edited by Tchan909 (01/20/08 08:48 PM)


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7907287 - 01/20/08 08:50 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

You can still love someone who commits suicide Fireworks, you don't have to judge them. The person going through pain can be strong, and they can be a shining light for those around them. They have this responsibility to themselves and the world around them to alleviate suffering. It's like how we should be happy that we are abundant in wealth and food but the poor should be happy too and not murder us just because we have it better.


--------------------


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Everyone [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7907294 - 01/20/08 08:53 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

heaven and hell to me = slavery or freedom, hell is the dominator/dominated; those who control and those who allow themselves to be controlled.




And a good christian imposing his will about what others should do, to others, couldn't be called slavery?




Anyone with an ego is going to impose their will, people of all creed do this is ways they think will outcome negatively and positively. We don't know whether the outcome will be good or bad in the future - I'm sure nature has a few laws that could guide us though such as the "give back what you take" rule I read about in Ishmael. The dominator-dominated loop only comes into effect when society is set up to divide rather than equalize, as money does.


--------------------


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Everyone [Re: Icelander]
    #7907296 - 01/20/08 08:53 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Please before you put words into another's mouth have a small clue about what you are talking about. The above is not "icelanders" philosophy and you are ignorant to think it




Exactly, the inherent failure in making a personalism in a philosophical discussion. Its an appeal that is unsubstantiated, "unlike icelander usually declares", and it is a failure of the poster to adequately express their point of view, for one reason or another. Its either to judge something that is not explicity expressed, because most think they can get away with it.

Quote:


IMO that belief is just ugly and selfish and it doesn't surprise me that you would hold it. :thumbdown:




Now now, if it doesn't surprise you that someone would hold such a perspective, then one has an understanding of where another person is coming from. Then, one must ask if one wishes to leave that being in that state by judging them and dismissing their nature to exist as such, compounding the matter through the negative connotations of judgement, or realize a more effective way of leading them forward, through subtle interaction? You can't force someone to be another way than they are, but you can certainly give them what they need to move on... If nothing else, it makes reality more preferable for one's own self, since it changes to live in accordance with you. :wink:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineLove Cap
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Re: Everyone [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7907297 - 01/20/08 08:54 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

dude, i've had one guy sending me things through e-mail telling me to get saved or go to hell. it was the first in long, long time! i was very shocked! i've been debating with him back and forth through e-mail for a couple weeks now. haha!
but you can't disregard someone's opinions because of thier belief system... just because i don't think christians have it completely right about everything, doesn't mean an individual who is a christian doesn't have good ideas!


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OfflineCubie
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7907302 - 01/20/08 08:54 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
Why does that reek of self loathing?.. sorry, you are projecting like you so often point out other people doing when they call you cynical

lunatix is right by the way, obviously this world would be better if we all looked out for each other rather than our immediate self satisfaction

"ask not what humanity can do for you, but what you can do for humanity"

unlike what icelander usually declares, that he is a lone warrior and we should all be lone warriors who are strong on our own, humans are social animals and we all have a role to play. humanity is like a hand and we are all fingers on that hand inseparable from it. if one finger becomes detached, the whole hand suffers. this is why people frown on suicide, because it harms all of humanity.

now you might say "good, if he was stupid or useless enough to commit suicide, he has cleaned up the gene pool a little". what you aren't taking into account is how much sorrow he has brought on the people who loved him and how much love he will never be able to share with the world. 


:thumbup:
Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
Why does that reek of self loathing?.. sorry, you are projecting like you so often point out other people doing when they call you cynical

lunatix is right by the way, obviously this world would be better if we all looked out for each other rather than our immediate self satisfaction

"ask not what humanity can do for you, but what you can do for humanity"

unlike what icelander usually declares, that he is a lone warrior and we should all be lone warriors who are strong on our own, humans are social animals and we all have a role to play. humanity is like a hand and we are all fingers on that hand inseparable from it. if one finger becomes detached, the whole hand suffers. this is why people frown on suicide, because it harms all of humanity.

now you might say "good, if he was stupid or useless enough to commit suicide, he has cleaned up the gene pool a little". what you aren't taking into account is how much sorrow he has brought on the people who loved him and how much love he will never be able to share with the world. 




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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7907308 - 01/20/08 08:55 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

You don't have to do anything, but I think you just admitted that you are capable so in that sense you share some of the responsibility. There is no reward or punishment, other than the possible reality we are creating for All That Is in the future, which is a part of you and me




I take responsibly for each of my action. Taking to account this responsibly, I don't consider that I have to save the earth or make a better tomorrow. This is all Will based.
The fact that, incidentally, my will is to help in the measure I want to, the fact that I love life and it makes me feel good when I see people happy instead of sad and that sometimes I like to contribute to all that, doesn't mean that it's my responsibility to do so.
It also doesn't mean that there's a higher moral I have to respond to.
And it also means that, when and if I will like doing so, I might directly HARM someone, without feeling any doubt or guilt about my actions.

No heave or hell?
What are you doing? Are you taking from the bible only what's convenient to you? :strokebeard:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Registered: 07/11/06
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Re: Everyone [Re: Love Cap]
    #7907310 - 01/20/08 08:56 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Exactly... we all run at different speeds, and general condemnation of the followers of all those lovely desert religions is childish. Sometimes dealing with them can be frustrating, but they're not exactly a threat to your well-being.

Besides, rejecting an entire religion because a portion of its followers are assholes is no better than hating black people because a black guy beat you up once.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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OfflineLove Cap
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Re: Everyone [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7907312 - 01/20/08 08:57 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

We have pretty good technology that can tell us somewhat about our future; for instance, if we don't start conserving our natural resources, we're going to be completely out by year 2050.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Everyone [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7907327 - 01/20/08 09:00 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

heaven and hell to me = slavery or freedom, hell is the dominator/dominated; those who control and those who allow themselves to be controlled.




And a good christian imposing his will about what others should do, to others, couldn't be called slavery?




I haven't heard of a Christian forcefully imposing his beliefs on anyone for a hundred years, at least. I've gotten the whole "convert and be saved by Jesus" lecture shitloads of times, but when I tell them I respect their beliefs but that they're not for me they generally respect my decision as well. They can believe I'm going to hell if they like, I don't care.

Has it been different for you?




Are you living on a planet different than earth?
Are you not living in a society where you have to respect some moral/social norms, ALL of these being funded upon the Christian moral?
Am I missing something? :crazy:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Everyone [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7907338 - 01/20/08 09:02 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

No, I interpret the bible my own way, the way it relates to cosmic consciousness and the messiah syndrome. When in the messiah syndrome, one can see that civilization is headed down the wrong path and can see that it is in their power to do something about it, which makes it their responsibility. I know you know what I'm talking about because I know you've understood these things at least in the past. I tried to do things for humanity even when I personally suffered or felt uncomfortable.

Is it not sort of infantile to never sacrifice some comfort for the greater good because you just don't want to? Are we reaching our highest potential by staying in our comfort zone, or is nature not telling us that we are going to have to get uncomfortable or it will make us uncomfortable for us..

By the way I live in Canada where Christianity is not entangled with the government, so I don't have this kind of gut level reaction against any kind of Christian belief. I think there's some good messages in the Bible, and a lot of messed up stuff called Christianity in the States which is scary to me like the movie Jesus Camp.


--------------------


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