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Invisibleflavoraid
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mescaline question -> grafting
    #7902047 - 01/19/08 02:40 PM (16 years, 13 days ago)

going to post in chemistry also

but, if the peyote or san pedro is for the purpose of extracting mescaline is it better to graft or not graft. my understanding is grafting makes your cacti bigger but non grafted ones have a higher alkaloid content.

basically to graft or not to graft for the purpose of mescaline extraction. that is the question.


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coda said:
imachavel, Man you really need to do some reading, the amount of bullshit you put into almost every single one of your posts is absolutely astounding.


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Offlineplainswalker
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Re: mescaline question -> grafting [Re: flavoraid]
    #7902103 - 01/19/08 02:55 PM (16 years, 13 days ago)

San Pedro grows quickly on its own roots so you don't graft San Pedro on to rootstocks. San Pedro is however a common rootstock itself to graft other cacti on top of.

I would say grafting is the way to go for that. I think the whole "grafted are less potent" thing must be a bit overblown.


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Invisibleflavoraid
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Re: mescaline question -> grafting [Re: plainswalker]
    #7902131 - 01/19/08 03:03 PM (16 years, 13 days ago)

do you have any experience with grafted vs non grafted cacti?


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coda said:
imachavel, Man you really need to do some reading, the amount of bullshit you put into almost every single one of your posts is absolutely astounding.


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Offlineplainswalker
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Re: mescaline question -> grafting [Re: flavoraid]
    #7902184 - 01/19/08 03:20 PM (16 years, 13 days ago)

Not in consuming them. But I have heard from people with experience that grafted cacti are closer in potency to own-root cacti than most people think. That is to say: age is a factor, but size is a bigger factor. This is what I have heard.


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Invisibleflavoraid
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Re: mescaline question -> grafting [Re: plainswalker]
    #7902219 - 01/19/08 03:35 PM (16 years, 13 days ago)

was thinking pereskiopsis as the grafting cacti

maybe ill do a bunch of each I can only obtain so many pereskiopsis cuttings.. hmm time will tell I suppose?


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coda said:
imachavel, Man you really need to do some reading, the amount of bullshit you put into almost every single one of your posts is absolutely astounding.


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Invisibleflavoraid
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Re: mescaline question -> grafting [Re: flavoraid]
    #7902225 - 01/19/08 03:36 PM (16 years, 13 days ago)

http://www.thenook.org/archives/tek/pereskiopsis-peyote.htm

for 3months that seems like pretty intense growth.


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coda said:
imachavel, Man you really need to do some reading, the amount of bullshit you put into almost every single one of your posts is absolutely astounding.


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InvisibleElementium
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Re: mescaline question -> grafting [Re: flavoraid]
    #7903174 - 01/19/08 07:42 PM (16 years, 13 days ago)

Not exactly conclusive, but there's some reasonable speculation, and it's interesting to read.

The Nook: Graft Alkaloid Content


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OfflineZinglons Acolyte
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Re: mescaline question -> grafting [Re: Elementium]
    #7903223 - 01/19/08 07:52 PM (16 years, 13 days ago)

holy shit!

thats all i can say :eek:


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"If the words 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." -Terence McKenna


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Invisiblecpw1971
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Re: mescaline question -> grafting [Re: Zinglons Acolyte]
    #7903341 - 01/19/08 08:17 PM (16 years, 13 days ago)

all I want to know is...
  why would a grafted cacti not produce alks as fast if everything else about it is growing faster???
when I graft Peruvianus seedlings they start producing adult spines right away. same with the rest of it.  its a natural thing for it to produce alks just as it is natural for the tip to grow therefore I think both processes are sped up.
in the wild Peyote flower after reaching adulthood and thats what 10 years?? and grafted onto a Pereskiopsis as a seedling it takes what a year???
time ta send this one in to Mythbusters  :crazy2:
 


Edited by cpw1971 (01/19/08 08:18 PM)


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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
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Re: mescaline question -> grafting [Re: cpw1971]
    #7903631 - 01/19/08 09:09 PM (16 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

and grafted onto a Pereskiopsis as a seedling it takes what a year???




a year would be a reasonable guess... ive had a few grafts that popped their first flower in under 6 months though :yesnod:


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OfflineJonnyDeformed

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Re: mescaline question -> grafting [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #7903782 - 01/19/08 10:00 PM (16 years, 13 days ago)

It is my understanding that the scion takes on the alk content of the rootstock,

so what you want to do is graft, then once its grown to a nice big size you un-graft and let it root on its own.

After sometime, maybe 6 months to a year alk content should be back to normal.


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it is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong.
A penalty for possession of a drug/plant should not be more damaging than the drug/plant itself.


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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
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Re: mescaline question -> grafting [Re: JonnyDeformed]
    #7904117 - 01/19/08 11:53 PM (16 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

It is my understanding that the scion takes on the alk content of the rootstock




negative :nonono:


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OfflineJonnyDeformed

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Re: mescaline question -> grafting [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #7904186 - 01/20/08 12:15 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

uarewotueat said:
Quote:

It is my understanding that the scion takes on the alk content of the rootstock




negative :nonono:




really?


--------------------


dubiousness
Dubious compound

it is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong.
A penalty for possession of a drug/plant should not be more damaging than the drug/plant itself.


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Invisibleflavoraid
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Re: mescaline question -> grafting [Re: JonnyDeformed]
    #7904710 - 01/20/08 04:23 AM (16 years, 12 days ago)

once it flowers it's mature?


--------------------
coda said:
imachavel, Man you really need to do some reading, the amount of bullshit you put into almost every single one of your posts is absolutely astounding.


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Invisiblecpw1971
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Re: mescaline question -> grafting [Re: flavoraid]
    #7904932 - 01/20/08 08:19 AM (16 years, 12 days ago)

yep


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Offlinefelixhigh
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Re: mescaline question -> grafting [Re: flavoraid]
    #7905128 - 01/20/08 09:48 AM (16 years, 12 days ago)

When we say it´s mature, we mean it´s sexually mature, it´s able to reproduce itself, it´s not like a fruit that gets ripe for consumption.


FH


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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
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Re: mescaline question -> grafting [Re: JonnyDeformed]
    #7905489 - 01/20/08 11:43 AM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

JonnyDeformed said:
Quote:

uarewotueat said:
Quote:

It is my understanding that the scion takes on the alk content of the rootstock




negative :nonono:




really?




yeah i dont think there is any evidence to support alkaloid transfer between the scion and stock or vice versa...
i mean ive never seen anything written on the subject, although i should think its something that hasnt really been investigated in detail... so perhaps my original statement was going a step too far :smile:

i think someone should test the alkaloids of a 100% non mescaline containing stock that has had l. williamsii grafted to it for some time and see if any mesc can be detected in the stock...

if anyone knows of such a study please shout cos that would definately be something worth clearing up :yesnod:


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OfflineFarFromHere
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Re: mescaline question -> grafting [Re: Dr. uarewotueat] * 1
    #7905913 - 01/20/08 02:02 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Why in the world would anybody try to extract Lophophora...

You don't extract peyote, you eat peyote.

Extract Trichocereus species if you want to extract something.

Or you could just eat the damn things.

If it is good enough for the shamans of Mexico and the Andes, it should be good enough for you.


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Offlineplainswalker
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Re: mescaline question -> grafting [Re: FarFromHere]
    #7906220 - 01/20/08 03:50 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Haha yeah I'm surprised no one called him on that. Growing lophophora for extraction of mescaline is dumb as hell.


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Invisibleflavoraid
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Re: mescaline question -> grafting [Re: plainswalker]
    #7940903 - 01/27/08 03:32 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

point taken :P peyote are pretty though...

thanks farfromhere... mass never occured to me.


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coda said:
imachavel, Man you really need to do some reading, the amount of bullshit you put into almost every single one of your posts is absolutely astounding.


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OfflineFarFromHere
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Re: mescaline question -> grafting [Re: flavoraid]
    #7940910 - 01/27/08 03:33 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Just grow Lophophora to eat and if you must do extractions then grow Trichocereus species (san pedro).


Trichocereus are just fine to eat too ,tho.


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Invisibleflavoraid
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Re: mescaline question -> grafting [Re: FarFromHere]
    #7947892 - 01/28/08 09:28 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

I wanted to extract and isolate the mescaline

and only the mescaline :o


--------------------
coda said:
imachavel, Man you really need to do some reading, the amount of bullshit you put into almost every single one of your posts is absolutely astounding.


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OfflineZinglons Acolyte
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Re: mescaline question -> grafting [Re: flavoraid]
    #7949587 - 01/29/08 08:51 AM (16 years, 3 days ago)

it does seem that this would be the best way to get a relatively large amount of mescaline in a short amount of time with minimal effort, so why not extract? that sort of prolific growth and at least 3x more mescaline per weight than trichocereus's... whats wrong with growing peyote to extract like this

mind you ill stick to building a massive garden of bridgesiis :wink:
peyotes illegal where i live and id rather not be in violation of the law if at all possible


--------------------
And they wandered off.. nine ways till bedfast.
-----
"And lets pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space 'cause theres bugger-all down here on earth!"  -Monty Python's "The Universe Song" from The Meaning of Life
"In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely considered as a bad move."  -Douglas Adams "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"
"If the words 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." -Terence McKenna


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Offlineplainswalker
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Re: mescaline question -> grafting [Re: Zinglons Acolyte]
    #7949766 - 01/29/08 09:52 AM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Lophs grow slowly and even when full grown are still small cacti. Trichos grow much much faster and given rootspace and acceptable growing conditions can grow to be huge cactus trees. Grafted lophs can never touch the production of mass that an established trich can put on.

I think lophs are one of the coolest plants we have on this planet but for if you're talking extractions, it's no contest because of the huge difference in mass. Growing peyote for mescaline extraction seems like an awful waste to me. But do what you want.


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Invisibleflavoraid
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Re: mescaline question -> grafting [Re: plainswalker]
    #7949852 - 01/29/08 10:26 AM (16 years, 3 days ago)

sounds logical..

even if peyote had 5x the mescaline per weight I could see a trich getting even larger than 5x the size :frown:


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coda said:
imachavel, Man you really need to do some reading, the amount of bullshit you put into almost every single one of your posts is absolutely astounding.


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OfflineZinglons Acolyte
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Re: mescaline question -> grafting [Re: flavoraid]
    #7951132 - 01/29/08 04:15 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

flavoraid said:
sounds logical..




--------------------
And they wandered off.. nine ways till bedfast.
-----
"And lets pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space 'cause theres bugger-all down here on earth!"  -Monty Python's "The Universe Song" from The Meaning of Life
"In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely considered as a bad move."  -Douglas Adams "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"
"If the words 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." -Terence McKenna


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