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OfflineNalim
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There is nothing natural about life
    #7900361 - 01/19/08 03:25 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

not in the way most think of natural anyway.
The universe is a cold an harsh place and evolution is a horrible machinery driven by chaos and destruction. The end product of it can only be universal death. Not that that would differ much from how it is now. We're the horrible machines that where spawned from a series of random mutations and accidents. We are cursed in so many ways that it's hard to fully comprehend it. We are imperfect, self-preserving machines with no value over that of a rock or a pond.
We are material things that moves only because of our structure and the laws that govern matter.


--------------------

Rodney Brooks on Robots
Nalim said: "Quoting yourself is retarded."


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Invisiblehunanbomb
what?


Registered: 01/18/08
Posts: 17
Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: Nalim]
    #7900381 - 01/19/08 03:36 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

i cant wait for the end of the world either


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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: Nalim]
    #7900392 - 01/19/08 03:40 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

i agree, life is akin to homosexuality :hehehe:


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View My Gallery


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Invisiblehunanbomb
what?


Registered: 01/18/08
Posts: 17
Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #7900398 - 01/19/08 03:41 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

WE WILL ALL DIE SOON, AND YOU WILL ALL GET FUCKED.


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OfflineNalim
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #7900410 - 01/19/08 03:46 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

You mean it blows?


--------------------

Rodney Brooks on Robots
Nalim said: "Quoting yourself is retarded."


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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: Nalim]
    #7900510 - 01/19/08 04:53 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

no, it sucks...


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View My Gallery


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OfflineCMACD
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #7900547 - 01/19/08 05:28 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

I think that sometimes too.

Actually, it is the cold hard truth. We were just the product of lightening coming in contact with the primordial soup till it produced carbon-based molecules complex enough to multiply itself. THUS WAS THE FIRST GENE. So why do I want to find this gay fucking "better reason" or "faith" or some shit? FUCK!


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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: CMACD]
    #7900583 - 01/19/08 06:04 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

I like to think about how lucky we are that our planet is at such a perfect distance from the sun and has been introduced with the right elements and how the surrounding planets work with us to make life possible on earth, just look at how harsh the other planets are and look at our gorgeous earth!

Also look how far the human race has come thru evolution and if we survive for a million years more how much we will have evolved by then, the universe is on big life/death cycle but you make it sound like bad thing?

|Life is so beutiful and so are our minds, the fact that we can question our existence and our ability to store memorys and strive for a better furture, will ensure our survival for years to come.

I feel sorry for people like you who have such a grim view on the universe, the thought of the grander life/death cycle bring my life into perspective and opportunity, you just seem to see doom and gloom?

We ahve no value over that of a rock or pond yes, we are all basic elements of life, but rocks form mountains and ponds form seas...we are lucky enough to have thoughts that manifest into form, how magical is that!?


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Edited by Chronic7 (01/19/08 06:06 AM)


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Offlinedonvliet
beyond reality

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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: Chronic7]
    #7900593 - 01/19/08 06:16 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

The funny thing is that if you accept this cold truth, you are stuck with the responsibility of giving meaning to your own life yourself. Are you going to let your life be meaningless or are you going to do something that means something to you?

Spirituality can be a valuable tool in this respect. It doesn't have to be the truth for it to work. Maybe this cold process made us into beings that need these tools... Maybe the responsibility of giving meaning to our own lives is too much for (most of) us and we like to have some external framework like a religion to provide this for us.


Edited by donvliet (01/19/08 06:17 AM)


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OfflineCMACD
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: Chronic7]
    #7900594 - 01/19/08 06:16 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

Actually, I was just going along with the thread, which I think was maybe created in a semi-sarcastic matter anyways.

I posted in the "Do you believe in God" thread. That is my REAL OPINION.


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Edited by CMACD (01/19/08 06:17 AM)


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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: CMACD]
    #7900604 - 01/19/08 06:33 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

All you have to do is look within for the truth, that we are all essentially the same things, we may not be born into socially equaly situations but everyojne and everything is equal, i dont think its a depressing thought at all i think its amazing and makes perfect sense.

I dont see this as telling myself a lie to get by, when you experience sudden realisation of great truth you'll understand, i am not religeous in the slightest but i beleive in finding your own personal truth by looking within, and realising universal truth by conciously dying.


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Offlineimpgl
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: Chronic7]
    #7900654 - 01/19/08 07:26 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

thats one way to look at life. are we really imperfect though? i say to you, beauty must be defined as what we are, or else the concept itself is our enemy. life comes hand in hand with death. would you rather not live and be scared of death? would you rather be a rock? you're alive. thats that. what are YOU going to do about it? are you going to be stuck in an unnatural state of man made life, being a slave to corporate life, or will YOU liberate yourself?


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omg really?


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Offlinenmajon
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: Nalim]
    #7900671 - 01/19/08 07:39 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

It's sad when people discard a thought or idea when it stirs up something inside you. I feel chronic has some good ideas and will learn more of spirituality through acts of understanding. At least when you decide to make a difference, it's something that can benefit all of us, rather than easily saying "fuck it, forget it, it's all going to hell so live it up!" I hate that attitude!


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NO STUCK UP DRUG GURU'S PLEASE!


Edited by nmajon (01/19/08 07:41 AM)


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OfflinePhonerothyme
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: nmajon]
    #7900798 - 01/19/08 08:47 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

All nature is but art, unknown to thee;
All chance, direction, which thou canst not see;
All discord, harmony not understood;
All partial evil, universal good;
And spite of pride, unerring reason's spite,
One truth is clear, Whatever is, is right.
- Alexander Pope


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http://erothyme.net


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OfflineRectul Threat
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: Nalim]
    #7901277 - 01/19/08 11:37 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

I'm not a machine. Although my body might be mechanical in nature, my consciousness is something different.
Although the bible is a work of fiction it does have some excellent quotes and here is one of them
"It is every mans destiny to die"


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Weed is shit.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: Rectul Threat]
    #7901329 - 01/19/08 11:49 AM (16 years, 13 days ago)

Life was never meant to be, necessarily. It just happened to arise when carbon made some crazy molecules with some other elements. Even our own consciousness may be an illusion created by the extreme complexity of our brain. But I don't really care. I'm alive, and the rest is up to me, however the fuck it is that we all got here.

I don't need life to be 'magic' for my own life to have purpose, if that makes any sense.


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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OfflineFarFromHere
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: g00ru]
    #7901617 - 01/19/08 12:59 PM (16 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

We are imperfect, with no value over that of a rock or a pond.





Other than that one line, I thought your whole post was bullshit.


There is an intent driving the universe foward....

It is called Tao.


--------------------
"We are the one's we have been waiting for" -Hopi Proverb


Edited by FarFromHere (01/19/08 01:01 PM)


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Offlinenotapillow
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: Nalim]
    #7901710 - 01/19/08 01:19 PM (16 years, 13 days ago)

why is that not natural?
seems pretty basic to me


you mine and everyone else may not matter, but at leased we dont matter just as much as everything else.

nothing is borrowed, nothing is lent


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Invisibleawesomebastard
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: Nalim]
    #7901939 - 01/19/08 02:11 PM (16 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Nalim said:
not in the way most think of natural anyway.
The universe is a cold an harsh place and evolution is a horrible machinery driven by chaos and destruction. The end product of it can only be universal death. Not that that would differ much from how it is now. We're the horrible machines that where spawned from a series of random mutations and accidents. We are cursed in so many ways that it's hard to fully comprehend it. We are imperfect, self-preserving machines with no value over that of a rock or a pond.
We are material things that moves only because of our structure and the laws that govern matter.




its not really hard to comprehend, start thinking of people as these machines and observe their behavior.

we just have the ability to complicate the normal self preservation instincts. thus we can slightly break free of them, this is self awareness.


--------------------
"Absolute certainty is a privilege of uneducated minds and fanatics." ~ C.J. Keyser



Mr. Cypher said: "I just tell the girls how sexy I am and their panties melt."


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: awesomebastard]
    #7901968 - 01/19/08 02:19 PM (16 years, 13 days ago)

for the last few months i entertained this belief system, that we were all robots mindlessly doing stupid shit. thinking you have no choice... is still a choice.

you have to realize that this is not the truth, it's just another way of observing the world, and not a particularly valuable one in my opinion. be creative. self awareness is in realizing your creative potential, you can create positive realities and negative realities

we are not robots, life and consciousness is real


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Offlinenotapillow
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7902003 - 01/19/08 02:27 PM (16 years, 13 days ago)

veiwing life as mechanical and orderly is so 1700's

we for the most part can see further now


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OfflinecoulterIV
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7902018 - 01/19/08 02:30 PM (16 years, 13 days ago)

how about there is nothing natural about YOUR life.

technology that we use is unnatural so i'm going to leave this computer for while.

If you want something to do, try to activate your DNA. you might start loving your life more.

Oh and you obviously aren't a musician because life shows me the most complex rhythms that need to be taken advantage of and made into symphonies that transcend time


--------------------
BREATHE IN LOVE
BREATHE OUT FORGIVENESS
(If you’re not in your breath, you’re in your mind)


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InvisibleCracka_X
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: Nalim]
    #7902036 - 01/19/08 02:37 PM (16 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Nalim said:
not in the way most think of natural anyway.
The universe is a cold an harsh place and evolution is a horrible machinery driven by chaos and destruction. The end product of it can only be universal death. Not that that would differ much from how it is now. We're the horrible machines that where spawned from a series of random mutations and accidents. We are cursed in so many ways that it's hard to fully comprehend it. We are imperfect, self-preserving machines with no value over that of a rock or a pond.
We are material things that moves only because of our structure and the laws that govern matter.




I don't understand how the title of the thread goes with this.

Everything is natural. Nothing is not natural depending on the context of 'natural'. From human behavior to the death of a star. what're you getting at? just feeling cynical?


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


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Invisiblemanyc
♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫


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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: FarFromHere]
    #7902680 - 01/19/08 05:38 PM (16 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

FarFromHere said:
Quote:

We are imperfect, with no value over that of a rock or a pond.





Other than that one line, I thought your whole post was bullshit.


There is an intent driving the universe foward....

It is called Tao.




Indeed.


--------------------

Hemp could Save the World.

"There is no flag that is large enough, to hide the shame of a man in cuffs." -Serj Tankian


:mushroomgrow:Know Thyself.:mushroomgrow:

"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
-Terence Mckenna


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Offlinenever_2_high
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: manyc]
    #7902721 - 01/19/08 05:51 PM (16 years, 13 days ago)

"Life is a space tunnel, The tunnel is your timelife. The Asteroids on the way are your obstacles in life. The planets where you refuil are your goals and achievments met. Just look at how beatiful our planet is compared to all the other ones.


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OfflineVeter
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: never_2_high]
    #7902801 - 01/19/08 06:16 PM (16 years, 13 days ago)

Actually, everything about life is natural...The laws of nature created life. It may not be the norm, but anything outside of hydrogen and helium are outside the norm.
We may not be any "better" than a rock, but we can easily convincer ourselves that we are and that's all that really matters.


--------------------
Let the Demons have their place, if so, it's angels you'll create.


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OfflineJstHereFrTheCake
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7902913 - 01/19/08 06:43 PM (16 years, 13 days ago)

This seems like a glass half empty or half full thread.

Plus abiogenesis is something that is not really understood, there are theories but no one really knows. Secondly there is always the chance that we are just none living matter arranged in a way that makes life. but it is still life. It is still pretty fucking amazing. And it is still pretty fucking lucky that we get to be here and even more so that we can discuss things like this and things much more complicated to boot.

I guess that would be the glass half full way to look at it. Plus I am not entirely dissuaded from the idea of soul, or at least something along the same lines although I am pretty sure I don't believe in it. I think there are ways of looking at even our seemingly meaningless existence in a spiritual way that makes sense with science.

Obviously it's pretty easy, since science does not comment on the supernatural. Idea's are fun though.


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OfflineSpiritual Seeker
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7903687 - 01/19/08 09:27 PM (16 years, 13 days ago)

lol. Life rules. Sadly however humans are getting SOOOO moronic i know the world will end or something big will happen eventually. At least thats my thoughts.


The world needs to have a 2 day earthquake.....it would ruin everything! IT would be perfect and it would provide a fresh start for humans.

We would have to pulltogether to get through it or get killed trying.


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"Nothing in the world is a gift. Whatever there is to learn has to be learned the hard way."
-Don juan


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Offlineclover606
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: Nalim]
    #7904063 - 01/19/08 11:35 PM (16 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Nalim said:
not in the way most think of natural anyway.
The universe is a cold an harsh place and evolution is a horrible machinery driven by chaos and destruction. The end product of it can only be universal death. Not that that would differ much from how it is now. We're the horrible machines that where spawned from a series of random mutations and accidents. We are cursed in so many ways that it's hard to fully comprehend it. We are imperfect, self-preserving machines with no value over that of a rock or a pond.
We are material things that moves only because of our structure and the laws that govern matter.




we only think its cold and harsh because we personally cant survive there, if there were some how life that lived in deep space, some form of energy being or something, theyd probably think earth is pretty fuckin harsh.
i think we have a little more value than a rock, cuz a rock isnt alive, id say were more along the lines of the bacteria on the rock.


--------------------
grassman said:

I remember being in DARE when i was much younger and some of the stories they would tell you are not only ridiculous, but completely untrue. One story was that a woman was on LSD and thought her infant was a turkey so she baked it in the oven. Now I look back and think thats hilarious, but at the time I guess it scared me.


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OfflineJonnyDeformed

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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: clover606]
    #7904125 - 01/19/08 11:54 PM (16 years, 13 days ago)

Everything is natural.. From life to power plants to atom bombs to the internet... if it exists it is natural my friend.

Death is also a beginning, from death life flourishes.


--------------------


dubiousness
Dubious compound

it is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong.
A penalty for possession of a drug/plant should not be more damaging than the drug/plant itself.


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Offlineimpgl
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: JonnyDeformed]
    #7904665 - 01/20/08 03:27 AM (16 years, 12 days ago)

i didnt mean that we were better then rocks, just different. we're all playing out our roles. when i was a kid, i used to think that we got to choose weather to live and die or be an inanimate object, and, most people being scared of the pains of life chose to be inanimate.


--------------------
omg really?


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OfflineMindGorilla
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: impgl]
    #7904726 - 01/20/08 04:52 AM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Without chaos and destruction we can never have beauty and peace.


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Offlinefall
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7905665 - 01/20/08 12:48 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Everything depends on how you look at it.
I personally plan to enjoy my worthless life to the fullest, instead of worrying about it's worthlessness.

Have fun


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OfflineJstHereFrTheCake
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: clover606]
    #7905775 - 01/20/08 01:19 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

clover606 said:
we only think its cold and harsh because we personally cant survive there, if there were some how life that lived in deep space, some form of energy being or something, theyd probably think earth is pretty fuckin harsh.
i think we have a little more value than a rock, cuz a rock isnt alive, id say were more along the lines of the bacteria on the rock.




They have actually discovered bacteria that can survive in space on asteroids and such, or at least bacteria that might be able to.

They're called extremo-philes or something. First heard about it from that science dude when he was on the Daily Show plugging his new PBS thang.

But anyway, when he said the "universe is a cold harsh place" he was talking about all of it not deep space in particular, and I don't think he meant it quite literally either. He was just saying that it isn't filled with love and compasssion.

Again it is a really... I don't want to say western, but western way of thinking to say that without the idea of a all loving god who made us special and the universe is all just for us that it is some how hostile or cold. It probably isn't indifferent about it's own existence and since we are part of that existence it isn't in different about us. But what you need to realize is that you are just part of the whole and your psyche creates the illusion that you are not which makes you see anything that doesn't see you as special as being cold. You will always exist, you are matter, matter cannot be destroyed. What you have come to call "you" will always be around and will spread out throughout the universe before it's destruction or recreation.

You as a conscious will eventually fall "victim" to the laws of nature, your systems will break down and your consciousness will dissolve back into the whole. Metabolism will stop and your body will break down and decay rejoining the earth that it came from originally.

There is nothing cold or harsh about that. Your just not as "special" as you thought you were, but in my opinion much more beautiful and poetic.


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OfflineFarFromHere
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: JstHereFrTheCake]
    #7906165 - 01/20/08 03:34 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

We are not special...

We are God.

We are Tao.

We are the intent that drives ourselves foward....

Our species foward.

We were there...

Tao was there....

Tao took the dust and swirled it together....

Tao called us from the waters of early Earth...

Tao intended us to stand up on the plains of Africa!

Tao's intent and our intent are one in the same.

We are all connected...

We are all part of the integral process.

we are all incarnations of one another!

I am you and you are me and we are all.

:thirdeyeani: :bowdown: :whoyougonnacall: :muslimprayer:  :levitate:


--------------------
"We are the one's we have been waiting for" -Hopi Proverb


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InvisibleCracka_X
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: FarFromHere]
    #7907647 - 01/20/08 10:00 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

oh look at you being all deep


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


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OfflineFarFromHere
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: Cracka_X]
    #7907698 - 01/20/08 10:13 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

That's me being serious.

I would have typed much more if I had the time...


--------------------
"We are the one's we have been waiting for" -Hopi Proverb


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Offlineorigami.octopus
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: FarFromHere]
    #7907890 - 01/20/08 11:13 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

I actually disagree.

Everything in existence is endowed with some degree of beauty and love. The exception to this might be things humans have built. (i'm interested to hear other opinions on this) Machines of war, cold steel, hot lead, torture devices. I can see no love hope or truth in these, only cruelty, hate, and despair. When we humans all learn to live every second as passionate as we can, as true and tragic and beautiful it is, our race will have made significant strides.

Man is indeed an incredible creature. Having a consciousness can be a burden or a gift. The thing about being endowed with this consciousness is that you can choose.

Toward the One.

It is impossible for me to agree that the sacred web of interconnected existence is as cold and brutal as you say. It is a thing of love and understanding.


--------------------
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this is an amazing game
http://www.kongregate.com/games/customlogic/sprout


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OfflineNalim
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: Cracka_X]
    #7908193 - 01/21/08 01:36 AM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Cracka_X said:
Quote:

Nalim said:
not in the way most think of natural anyway.
The universe is a cold an harsh place and evolution is a horrible machinery driven by chaos and destruction. The end product of it can only be universal death. Not that that would differ much from how it is now. We're the horrible machines that where spawned from a series of random mutations and accidents. We are cursed in so many ways that it's hard to fully comprehend it. We are imperfect, self-preserving machines with no value over that of a rock or a pond.
We are material things that moves only because of our structure and the laws that govern matter.




I don't understand how the title of the thread goes with this.

Everything is natural. Nothing is not natural depending on the context of 'natural'. From human behavior to the death of a star. what're you getting at? just feeling cynical?



It was mostly to point out the stupidity of the common use of the word natural on this page. It's as if if something is natural it's all nice, warm and cosy.
I know everything is natural, if something wasn't it couldn't exist.


--------------------

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Nalim said: "Quoting yourself is retarded."


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InvisibleCrasher
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: Nalim]
    #7908202 - 01/21/08 01:41 AM (16 years, 12 days ago)

It must suck thinking there is no reason for our existence.

I hope you don't love anything, because its just a worthless squirt of evolution-spawned brain juice.


--------------------
Give me silence, water, hope;
Give me struggle, iron, volcanoes...


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OfflineCMACD
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: Spiritual Seeker]
    #7908263 - 01/21/08 02:18 AM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Spiritual Seeker said:
lol. Life rules. Sadly however humans are getting SOOOO moronic i know the world will end or something big will happen eventually. At least thats my thoughts.


The world needs to have a 2 day earthquake.....it would ruin everything! IT would be perfect and it would provide a fresh start for humans.

We would have to pulltogether to get through it or get killed trying.




Can you remember a time in history when the world was really any better?

The only difference now that makes shit worse is the fact that we have the knowledge & "fuel" to destroy the planet in a split second if some psycho wanted. The same can't really be said for ancient times.

"The universe is hostile, so impersonal,
devour to survive so it is, so it's ALWAYS BEEN"

-MJK


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Edited by CMACD (01/21/08 05:56 AM)


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Offlinesatyr
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7908535 - 01/21/08 05:36 AM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Consciousness IS the only truth. If you believe that everything is accidental and meaningless, you are gravely mistaken. If you take everything science imposes on you as fact, then yes, life does suck. But the fact is that science is another Government institution, just as the educational body and the church.These opiates that are designed to turn
us into materialistic, apathetic, cattle. Nothing is random. The big bang theory is akin to saying that a fucking tornado can fly through a scrapyard and accidentally whip together a 747 jumbo jet. If you want to study science, at least take a deep look at quantum physics. These alternative sciences are simply rediscovering what shamans and mystics have know throughout history. Shit man, what they have learned over the course of two decades, Ive discovered in one night with DMT. This universe is holographic. Everything we feel, taste, hear and see are simply interference patterns, waves of energy that DO NOT exist as solid form UNTIL our brains put them together that way. This is proven fact. Life random series of coincidences? Ha


--------------------
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Offlineeve69
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: satyr]
    #7908664 - 01/21/08 08:01 AM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Yeah, I have come to experience that awareness is the only truth. Seems if ones spends time with simple awareness as meditation every day then one becomes more attuned to the finer fluctuations of feel which is the undercurrent of what we are. The undercurrent of fine feeling is bright with optimism regardless of all things. This is the primal awareness, what some might call God-dess. A super bright optimism which is not dampable. Undampable super bright optimism. Because we are simply part of the current ourselves and we all are part of that basic primal experiment of simple optimistic sentience which drives it all. Even in death. If you live long enough even Death becomes a good friend that you miss. Because even death is not different from life, it is part of it.

Yes, what we have here is a stage for all possible imaginable experience. So best be enjoying it in the present, not expecting that one will ever come back to it. In the same shape, nor though that one will ever leave it, through any means. We and the simple bright optimism of life itself are one. Nothing will ever change that. But it takes merely appreciating the quiet golden dawn.

I find it pretty awesome at times thinking that we are experiencing things so uniquely here on Mother Planet Gaia. Have you ever been transfixed by the orangeness of an orange with a ray of sun shooting through it?I was tripping out once, I had an incense packet with a golden sun on it, and I stood it up at the curb in the morning light and burned some incense, and two doves on the wire across the street hopped right up to it and were hypnotized. I myself was surprised how beautiful the doves were - what I took for gray - was actually a whole rainbow of colors.


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...or something







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OfflineGrylls
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: Nalim]
    #7908672 - 01/21/08 08:07 AM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Nalim said:
not in the way most think of natural anyway.
The universe is a cold an harsh place and evolution is a horrible machinery driven by chaos and destruction. The end product of it can only be universal death. Not that that would differ much from how it is now. We're the horrible machines that where spawned from a series of random mutations and accidents. We are cursed in so many ways that it's hard to fully comprehend it. We are imperfect, self-preserving machines with no value over that of a rock or a pond.
We are material things that moves only because of our structure and the laws that govern matter.




Nope...sorry, it's not quite like that.:cool:


--------------------
Alone in the clouds all blue.  Lying on an eiderdown.  You can't see me, but I can you.


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Offlinenmajon
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7908685 - 01/21/08 08:13 AM (16 years, 11 days ago)

I'm glad that there are people with optimism, when so many cynics try to take it all away.


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InvisibleCracka_X
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: Nalim]
    #7908943 - 01/21/08 10:02 AM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Nalim said:
Quote:

Cracka_X said:
Quote:

Nalim said:
not in the way most think of natural anyway.
The universe is a cold an harsh place and evolution is a horrible machinery driven by chaos and destruction. The end product of it can only be universal death. Not that that would differ much from how it is now. We're the horrible machines that where spawned from a series of random mutations and accidents. We are cursed in so many ways that it's hard to fully comprehend it. We are imperfect, self-preserving machines with no value over that of a rock or a pond.
We are material things that moves only because of our structure and the laws that govern matter.




I don't understand how the title of the thread goes with this. 

Everything is natural.  Nothing is not natural depending on the context of 'natural'.  From human behavior to the death of a star.  what're you getting at?  just feeling cynical?



It was mostly to point out the stupidity of the common use of the word natural on this page. It's as if if something is natural it's all nice, warm and cosy.
I know everything is natural, if something wasn't it couldn't exist.




no doubt! :laugh:


To FarFromHere:
I'm just kidding, I agree w/ ya.


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


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OfflineFarFromHere
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: Cracka_X]
    #7909630 - 01/21/08 01:27 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

The big bang theory is akin to saying that a fucking tornado can fly through a scrapyard and accidentally whip together a 747 jumbo jet.




:rockon:


Quote:

If you want to study science, at least take a deep look at quantum physics. These alternative sciences are simply rediscovering what shamans and mystics have know throughout history. Shit man, what they have learned over the course of two decades, Ive discovered in one night with DMT.





Preach on Brother!



The universe is not the creation of random chaotic events...

Our intent, our will...Is behind it all...


--------------------
"We are the one's we have been waiting for" -Hopi Proverb


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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: FarFromHere]
    #7909961 - 01/21/08 02:47 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

The universe is not the creation of random chaotic events...




whoa whoa whoa, I disagree. Chaotically orderly events.


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


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OfflineVisionary Tools
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7910062 - 01/21/08 03:20 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Rocks didn't invent lasers. Rocks had to grow people to do that.


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OfflineVisionary Tools
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #7910090 - 01/21/08 03:28 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

The big bang theory is akin to saying that a fucking tornado can fly through a scrapyard and accidentally whip together a 747 jumbo jet.




Sure, if the purpose of the big bang was to condense matter into stars and planets, and have those planets grow people to invent lasers. That just sounds outlandish.

But the big bang wasn't that. It was a really hot explosion, which sounds about as plausible as all other creation story I've heard.

So one day there was nothing, except for one dimensional strings, that somehow touch each other, because this is possible, I'm told by string theorists (or, in another time, mental people) and when that happened, a universe was created. Except it's not just a universe, because if that theory is correct, this is one of an infinite number of universes, that overlap each other in time and space.

And in one of those infinite universes, all the random permutations lead to this one planet growing people who made lasers, which are the meaning of life.


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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: Nalim]
    #7910208 - 01/21/08 03:55 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

We are imperfect, self-preserving machines with no value over that of a rock or a pond.



qft.


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OfflineFarFromHere
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: maggotz]
    #7910266 - 01/21/08 04:12 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

And in one of those infinite universes, all the random permutations lead to this one planet growing people who made lasers, which are the meaning of life.





And what is the drive behind that probability?

Tao.

Being conscious, makes us conscious.


--------------------
"We are the one's we have been waiting for" -Hopi Proverb


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Invisiblemaggotz


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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: Crasher]
    #7910321 - 01/21/08 04:21 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

what is the reason for your existence?


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Offlinesatyr
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: maggotz]
    #7910638 - 01/21/08 05:10 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

The reason for our existence is the fact that we CHOOSE to exist. As Bill Hicks once said, "We are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively" I dont think anyone could have said it better. After my first ayahuasca voyage, Ive discovered that this is the only truth. Nothing is random and meaningless. Chaos is not disorder, but an order beyond human comprehension. Random events could simply be a very advanced formula that are beyond our scope of understanding. But If I could give everyone in this world one piece of advice, it would be to Have Fun, dont take shit seriously. Life is a game; We change it everyday by the way we choose to perceive it. We are always in control. Live, laugh and love. Infinite possibility is what "life" is all about.


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OfflineNalim
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #7913727 - 01/22/08 04:39 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Good post. I find it amazing how many people that has the whole causality thing wrong.


--------------------

Rodney Brooks on Robots
Nalim said: "Quoting yourself is retarded."


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Offlinesatyr
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: Nalim]
    #7913770 - 01/22/08 05:21 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Well, no one is really wrong, because truth is not objective. The only established truths are those that we choose to actively participate in by believing in them. The external world does not exist as we perceive it, but it exists only as a series of waves and patterns of energy. These patterns are meaningless until they are taken in by our senses and constructed by our brain as "solid" objects. And our beliefs actually control the way our brains decode these patterns. This is all been proven by quantum physics. Its an interesting life we live, we can choose what we want, and actively manipulate our reality. So why not choose a belief system that best fits our lives, or believe nothing at all? I personally feel that any system that devalues life and awareness is completely absolete and should be thrown out


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Offlinesky
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: satyr]
    #7913995 - 01/22/08 09:57 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Go past the machinery, the structure and boundaries. Release yourself from the framework and expand your life past the two demensional world of 0's and 1's. The philosophies that will not let you evolve are of no longer use and can be discarded. The whole process is that of taking off your social-forged armor and tossing the shields that harbor you from the winds of the universe. You may think you can't fly and that you will fall, but where we are going there is no up or down, no dichotomies; so you can't fall, you can only glide to new and unexplored domains.
:peace:


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: sky]
    #7914871 - 01/22/08 02:23 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:


The big bang theory is akin to saying that a fucking tornado can fly through a scrapyard and accidentally whip together a 747 jumbo jet.




I HATE this type of logic. You're looking at it from the wrong direction dude.


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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: sky]
    #7915693 - 01/22/08 04:57 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

blavampire said:
Go past the machinery, the structure and boundaries. Release yourself from the framework and expand your life past the two demensional world of 0's and 1's. The philosophies that will not let you evolve are of no longer use and can be discarded. The whole process is that of taking off your social-forged armor and tossing the shields that harbor you from the winds of the universe. You may think you can't fly and that you will fall, but where we are going there is no up or down, no dichotomies; so you can't fall, you can only glide to new and unexplored domains.
:peace:







Look at that focus! If I wanted an image for meditation, it'd have lasers in it.


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Offlinesatyr
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7916309 - 01/22/08 06:46 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
Quote:


The big bang theory is akin to saying that a fucking tornado can fly through a scrapyard and accidentally whip together a 747 jumbo jet.




I HATE this type of logic.  You're looking at it from the wrong direction dude.





Wrong direction? How must I look at it? From the direction of a bunch of scientists who sit around trying to make everything in the universe fit into this neat little box which can be measured and documented, while everything that doesnt fit into there framework is to be discarded and considered as false? Its called theory for a reason; because its a theory, meaning that this is the best scenario they can come up with while remaining in the box. Mainstream science is bullshit. Its just another religion designed to keep the general population in check. Science also says that consciousness is a product of the brain, not vice-versa. This, one of the biggest lies of them all, has been disproved many times over by those who have been declared DEAD, brain discontinued functioning, and have come back to tell stories of what happened during that time. What about clairvoyance and astral projection? How is awareness able to put itself elsewhere if its merely a function of the brain? Tell this to the many that have experienced death and have come back. I have been there, this is why I regard "life" with nothing more than humor and laughter.

Sorry to drag this on, I love good conversation, lol. By the way, If the big bang theory interests you, you should check this out, has anyone heard about this yet? http://www.gtaforums.com/index.php?showtopic=303151
apparently there going to try and recreate this theory, and possibly destroy the world :thumbup: lol


--------------------
Looking for Astrophytum asterias specimens; have cacti for trade :pm:


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OfflineFarFromHere
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: satyr]
    #7916427 - 01/22/08 07:03 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Nice post.


In the beginning...

There was the primordial singularity of pure intend...

It exploded, ever expanding, racing forward, thrusting the cosmos into motion and express...

It created time and space...

That singularity was Tao and is EVERYTHING!


--------------------
"We are the one's we have been waiting for" -Hopi Proverb


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: satyr]
    #7916440 - 01/22/08 07:05 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

satyr said:
Quote:

guruu said:
Quote:


The big bang theory is akin to saying that a fucking tornado can fly through a scrapyard and accidentally whip together a 747 jumbo jet.




I HATE this type of logic.  You're looking at it from the wrong direction dude.





Wrong direction? How must I look at it? From the direction of a bunch of scientists who sit around trying to make everything in the universe fit into this neat little box which can be measured and documented, while everything that doesnt fit into there framework is to be discarded and considered as false? Its called theory for a reason; because its a theory, meaning that this is the best scenario they can come up with while remaining in the box. Mainstream science is bullshit. Its just another religion designed to keep the general population in check. Science also says that consciousness is a product of the brain, not vice-versa. This, one of the biggest lies of them all, has been disproved many times over by those who have been declared DEAD, brain discontinued functioning, and have come back to tell stories of what happened during that time. What about clairvoyance and astral projection? How is awareness able to put itself elsewhere if its merely a function of the brain? Tell this to the many that have experienced death and have come back. I have been there, this is why I regard "life" with nothing more than humor and laughter.

Sorry to drag this on, I love good conversation, lol. By the way, If the big bang theory interests you, you should check this out, has anyone heard about this yet? http://www.gtaforums.com/index.php?showtopic=303151
apparently there going to try and recreate this theory, and possibly destroy the world :thumbup: lol




I'll address your original analogy.  When the big bang happened, the universe was set into motion.  This is the way it ended up.  Yes, the odds of the universe ending up exactly as it did are astronomical.  But so are the odds of every other possibility.  Something had to happen, and this is it. If you look backwards, yes the chances are small, but that's not really the issue.

Also, don't be one of those people that gets confused by terminology.  Its a scientific theory, not some crackpot theory like we get on random internet forums.  Scientific theories are highly tested and fairly reliable.

As for your idea that mainstream science is "bullshit" and a tool to keep us in check, I really don't know how to argue against you.  Are you disagreeing with physics and chemistry?  Do you not believe in atoms and gravity, or the theory of relativity?  I really don't entirely understand your post.


--------------------
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drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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Offlinesatyr
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: g00ru]
    #7917090 - 01/22/08 08:54 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Well, Ive smoked since that last post, but ill try to clarify. Im not trying to imply that physics and chemistry are all bullshit, not even all science for that matter. The science that makes it through the schools and through the media though are a different story. Scientists across the world have made recent discoveries that completely change the way we view our world, yet they never make big time news. Like the fact that our world is holographic, and that the objective world does not exist as we perceive it. Is this not big news? The fact that reality can be altered and does simply by the way we choose to perceive it? What I was trying to get at earlier is that the world elite controls which "science" we are forced to believe in for there benefit. Its not science Im arguing, its the close-minded artificial science that says if it cannot be measure, then it does not exist.
Is any of this making sense? Im trying, but Im really stoned :stoned: im having trouble holding on to concepts lol


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: satyr]
    #7917132 - 01/22/08 08:58 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

^ I know what you mean. Some of this new science is pretty crazy. It's not suprising that it isn't widespread information for several reasons.

1. It borders on philosophy.
2. It's extremely difficult to comprehend.
3. It's extremely different to prove.
4. It makes some pretty revolutionary assertions.

"It" is all that new science that he was describing, basically the stuff about the universe equaling perception and stuff like that.

And I still disagree with you about the big bang but I guess that's another argument for another day.


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Offlinewireless
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: Nalim]
    #7917204 - 01/22/08 09:08 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Nalim said:
not in the way most think of natural anyway.
The universe is a cold an harsh place and evolution is a horrible machinery driven by chaos and destruction. The end product of it can only be universal death. Not that that would differ much from how it is now. We're the horrible machines that where spawned from a series of random mutations and accidents. We are cursed in so many ways that it's hard to fully comprehend it. We are imperfect, self-preserving machines with no value over that of a rock or a pond.
We are material things that moves only because of our structure and the laws that govern matter.




Whatever makes you feel better and sleep at night right?


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Offlinesatyr
אתה בעצמך יודע


Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 3,396
Loc: Alpha Canis Majoris
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: g00ru]
    #7917243 - 01/22/08 09:14 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

I believe the difficulty in proving some of the newer dicoveries is probably the bigger reason for its lack of coverage. The fact is that some of the most insane phenomenon in the universe is not recordable, therefore being difficult or impossible to prove. Take "ghosts" for instance. Theres almost no denying their existence, yet there is no solid scientific proof, aside from shaky video footage and evp phenomenon. I feel that conventional science needs a revolution in the way they approach new things. Science has kind of lost its spirit over the years. Scientists of old went about experiments wildly and with imagination, not disregarding anything. But Im optimistic about the future of science, people are starting to accept that things are not always what they seem


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Looking for Astrophytum asterias specimens; have cacti for trade :pm:


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OfflineNalim
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Registered: 01/13/06
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Re: There is nothing natural about life [Re: satyr]
    #7923086 - 01/24/08 04:31 AM (16 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

satyr said:
Well, no one is really wrong, because truth is not objective.



I kind of agree...
But unless you want to entirely give up reasoning you need to follow the most, or at least a somewhat, logic line of thinking. The idea that anything has happened because it would enable a goal to be reached, instead of a goal being reached because something has happened is rather unlikely.


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Rodney Brooks on Robots
Nalim said: "Quoting yourself is retarded."


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