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Strophariaceae
mycologist



Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 109
Loc: Marvelous Marin County, C...
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: Will the real Psilocybe subaeruginascens please stand up? [Re: auweia]
#7908940 - 01/21/08 10:01 AM (16 years, 10 days ago) |
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Interesting. The populations/strains I've seen of North American "P. subaeruginascens" are:
Pillsbury's collection from Golden Gate park, with its very distinctive pointy umbo and wavy gills Your collection from the East Bay Two other collections from Seattle sent to me by Joe Ammirati (both slightly different from one another in spore stats)
Others I know of:
Sal Billeci's cultivar from Golden Gate park, which was passed along to Rolf Singer (same strain as Pillsbury's? haven't seen it)
A collection from Pennsylvania Guzman tells me about.
And this third Bay Area strain you were mentioning – I don't know that one. Was that every discussed on shroomery?
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auweia
mountain biking


Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 2,725
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Re: Will the real Psilocybe subaeruginascens please stand up? [Re: Strophariaceae]
#7909214 - 01/21/08 11:22 AM (16 years, 10 days ago) |
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edited out
Edited by auweia (02/21/08 12:18 PM)
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CureCat
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Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
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Re: Will the real Psilocybe subaeruginascens please stand up? [Re: auweia]
#7909439 - 01/21/08 12:27 PM (16 years, 10 days ago) |
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>well, I never noticed any wavy gills like the one from Golden Gate >Park. Are you saying the collection from the east bay and GG park >are the same types? >did Pillsburys collection from GG park have wavy cap edges? This one >from Curecat is in the east bay http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Psilocybe.subaeruginascens.4.jpg
Yes, they are the same strain- from the same organism. "Pillsbury" is that guy from MSSF. He found them originally in GGP in 2003 or 2004, subsequent collections have been from the transplant that resides in Oakland. "My collections" are from that same patch. The wiki images are all from the same patch, taken over the years.
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auweia
mountain biking


Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 2,725
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Re: Will the real Psilocybe subaeruginascens please stand up? [Re: CureCat]
#7909601 - 01/21/08 01:19 PM (16 years, 10 days ago) |
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edited out
Edited by auweia (02/21/08 12:21 PM)
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CureCat
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Re: Will the real Psilocybe subaeruginascens please stand up? [Re: auweia]
#7909734 - 01/21/08 01:58 PM (16 years, 10 days ago) |
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>but has Peter compared the Richmond one ( I was able to get him a >dried one at least) and that GG Park one
Yes, he has:
>As for the collections, you showed me, yes, they do have notable >differences both macroscopically and in spore statistics with the >collections Pillsbury gave me. They weren't different enough for me >to all them a different species, though.
It's interesting actually, because I originally thought that the GGP/Oakland strain was Ps. ovoideocystidiata based on macro similarities alone. Both have wavy lammele, an umbo, annulus (which typically dries in a blue ring), and the pileus colour (especially when hygrophanous) of both is extremely similar.
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auweia
mountain biking


Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 2,725
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Re: Will the real Psilocybe subaeruginascens please stand up? [Re: CureCat]
#7910000 - 01/21/08 03:00 PM (16 years, 10 days ago) |
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oh I see..
well, I can live with it being the same species, but it sure seems like a different strain at least, in the same way you have different cyan strains, some big and thick and other smaller and more fragile
but at least now it's that the Bay Area types are different than the Japanese types
somebody just sent me a link to that other one too > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybe_ovoideocystidiata
Indeed, the top photo looks like what I found, but not the bottom one..fascinating.
and doesn't one of the OPs live in the Ohio valley?. Haven't heard of this one before, also in the stuntzii category, but are they potent like the bay area type?
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CureCat
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Re: Will the real Psilocybe subaeruginascens please stand up? [Re: auweia]
#7910072 - 01/21/08 03:23 PM (16 years, 10 days ago) |
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>well, I can live with it being the same species, but it sure seems like >a different strain at least, in the same way you have different cyan >strains, some big and thick and other smaller and more fragile
I've been saying this for months- the macroscopic discrepencies are probably due to phenotypic variation between strains of the same species.
>Indeed, the top photo looks like what I found, but not the bottom >one..fascinating.
ACtually, I was saying that The GGP/Oakland collection looks like Ps. ovoideocystidiata.
Quote:
CureCat said: There is a Spring fruiting Psilocybe here in the Bay Area, CA, which bears macroscopic resemblance to Ps. ovoideocystidiata. Most notably, this unknown species has consistently wavy lamellae, and Ps. ovoideocystidiata is the only other Psilocybe I have seen consistently display this feature.
 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/usergallery.php/pid/477801/imgpl/3/imgpp/12 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/usergallery.php/pid/479823/imgpl/3/imgpp/12 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/usergallery.php/pid/479454/imgpl/3/imgpp/12 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/usergallery.php/pid/479451/imgpl/3/imgpp/12 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/usergallery.php/pid/477815/imgpl/3/imgpp/12
The first two images you can see the distinct waviness. It's funny actually, because I suspected Ps. ovoideocystidiata based on other morphologic features BEFORE I knew about the wavy gills. So I PMed him asking for a photo showing the gills to compare to the GGP/Oakland collection, and he sent me the first image you see above. I was like "HEY NOW!"
Sorry, I couldn't easily thumbnail the other pics. All images are from ShroomyDan's gallery.
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auweia
mountain biking


Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 2,725
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Re: Will the real Psilocybe subaeruginascens please stand up? [Re: CureCat]
#7910250 - 01/21/08 04:09 PM (16 years, 10 days ago) |
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ah right..shroomydan was from Ohio somewhere...I suspect ithe Ohio valley that would be more summertime thing. I never lived there tho
but that one spot I found was Jan 10, so not exactly spring, altho it could be a later fruiter like some cyans strains I have
I wish it would fruit..that would be nice and I can get more photos
sure is a finicky species, either way...really something else
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Strophariaceae
mycologist



Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 109
Loc: Marvelous Marin County, C...
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: Will the real Psilocybe subaeruginascens please stand up? [Re: auweia]
#7913539 - 01/22/08 01:48 AM (16 years, 10 days ago) |
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OK, as promised, spore images, one species at a time this time –
Psilocybe subaeruginascens Hohnel holotype:

Psilocybe septentrionalis Guzmán holotype (all that's left after the bugs ate it):

Local "Pilsbury" collection:


For some reason, I can't find my photos I took of the holotype of Psilocybe aeruginomaculans Hohnel. Basically, the spores are very thick-walled and dark like the P. subaeruginascens holotype, however, its shape is almost globose. Based on spore shape, spore size statistics, and difference in habitat, Dennis Desjardin is publishing a paper separating these two species again.
Anyway, enjoy.
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GGreatOne234
Stranger
Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 8,946
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Re: Will the real Psilocybe subaeruginascens please stand up? [Re: Strophariaceae]
#7915522 - 01/22/08 04:32 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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interesting images everyone
thanks for sharing
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auweia
mountain biking


Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 2,725
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Re: Will the real Psilocybe subaeruginascens please stand up? [Re: GGreatOne234]
#7936506 - 01/26/08 06:19 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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edited out
Edited by auweia (02/21/08 12:19 PM)
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auweia
mountain biking


Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 2,725
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Re: Will the real Psilocybe subaeruginascens please stand up? [Re: auweia]
#7937308 - 01/26/08 08:47 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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edited out
Edited by auweia (02/21/08 12:19 PM)
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CureCat
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Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
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Re: Will the real Psilocybe subaeruginascens please stand up? [Re: auweia]
#7937341 - 01/26/08 08:53 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
auweia said: no....it's close, but this is not quite what I've seen IMHO
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/usergallery.php/pid/477801/imgpl/3/imgpp/12 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/usergallery.php/pid/479823/imgpl/3/imgpp/12 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/usergallery.php/pid/479454/imgpl/3/imgpp/12 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/usergallery.php/pid/479451/imgpl/3/imgpp/12 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/usergallery.php/pid/477815/imgpl/3/imgpp/12
it's possible they could be the same species, and a new unidentified species, but what I found isn't quite like that
it really is tough cookies when it's this rare...we have little to compare it to
Auweia, I KNOW you skim a lot of posts. PLEASE READ the content of the post if you are going to reply!!!!
I wasn't suggesting that any of the Bay Area species are Ps. ovoideocystidiata, I was just comparing them macroscopically.
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CureCat
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Registered: 04/19/06
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Re: Will the real Psilocybe subaeruginascens please stand up? [Re: CureCat]
#7937373 - 01/26/08 08:59 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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Auweia, I notice the type of red wood-bark stuff that they are growing from....
What is interesting, is that I have never seen Ps. cyanescens nor the "Cyanofriscosa" take a liking to that substrate, HOWEVER, The one patch of Ps. stuntzii I've found, was inhabiting this same red wood-bark stuff! And I am not the only one who has noticed this. Another mushroom hunter also noted the propensity for Ps. stuntzii to colonize this substrate.
Interesting considering that the two species are in the same section!!
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auweia
mountain biking


Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 2,725
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Re: Will the real Psilocybe subaeruginascens please stand up? [Re: CureCat]
#7937426 - 01/26/08 09:10 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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edited out
Edited by auweia (02/21/08 12:20 PM)
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CureCat
Strangest


Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
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Re: Will the real Psilocybe subaeruginascens please stand up? [Re: auweia]
#7937461 - 01/26/08 09:15 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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.....what?? 
Uhh, I'll try and figure out what you're saying after a cup of coffee...
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auweia
mountain biking


Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 2,725
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Re: Will the real Psilocybe subaeruginascens please stand up? [Re: CureCat]
#7937475 - 01/26/08 09:19 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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hehe
no shit, Curecat, it really is like that
you tell me what species this is...LOL
Edited by auweia (01/26/08 09:24 PM)
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CureCat
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Re: Will the real Psilocybe subaeruginascens please stand up? [Re: auweia]
#7938477 - 01/26/08 11:59 PM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Ps. ovoideocystidiata < the only reason why that name was ever included in any discusssion about that, and I believe what I did is copy that from another thread) is because it is in the same family (microscopic wise) as > STUNTZII...is that correct? And this has been discovered in the Ohio Valley, of all places
I'm not sure what you're saying or asking... The reason I brought up the species is because of the macroscopic similarities of Ps. ovoideocystidiata to the GGP/Oakland collection, as I have stated at least 3 times now. I'm not suggesting they are the same species.
Quote:
Macroscopically, which is what you, curecat are referring to is this
That is not a coherent sentence.. can you rephrase?
Quote:
I don't have microscope, and I'm not even questioning microscopic characteristics, but macroscopically, I'm saying what I found isn't the same as what you found,or what that dude from MSSF in 2004 found.
I do think what I found is the same as what Waylitjim found last year in Bezerkely tho
I understand that that is your opinion, and I am saying, you may be right. I am also saying that they might be the same species, but two macroscopically distinct strains. I am not sure.
Quote:
so I'll leave it up to you...why in the world would I want to discard one find as being 'not the same' while attaching to another who I DO think 'is the same' with both being similarly disassociated from me, being that I personally know neither of your very well
Again, I can't understand any of what you just said. If you could rephrase, I might be able to answer or at least understand what you're trying to get across.
Quote:
why do you think I say that recent discoveries might not have been documented at all, under any microscope, or on any message board?
I don't know. Do you think I disagree with this notion? It is not something anyone could disprove, so i would say it is well within reason that someone else has also collected these, and we are not aware. Certainly, plenty of hunters just pick and eat, and don't really care about mycology or WHAT they're eating, as long as they get high.
Quote:
no shit, Curecat, it really is like that
you tell me what species this is...LOL
Huh? Why? I never claimed to know what they are, and I am still not too sure.
I'm not trying to be an ass hole, but I just don't know what you're talking about half the time.
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GGreatOne234
Stranger
Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 8,946
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Re: Will the real Psilocybe subaeruginascens please stand up? [Re: auweia]
#7938966 - 01/27/08 02:36 AM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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auweia, i will exactly why. microscopically are species that might several species otherwise get same. otherwise, same to the with of P. ovoideocystidiata are spores easily.
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CureCat
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Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
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Re: Will the real Psilocybe subaeruginascens please stand up? [Re: GGreatOne234]
#7938989 - 01/27/08 02:51 AM (16 years, 5 days ago) |
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It just figures you know the secret language... Why am I not in the loop?!!
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